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Need a root canal.


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Woke up yesterday with a slightly swollen face and this morning was worse. I was able to get in today to a new dentist right by my house.

I wasn't exactly 100% happy with my last dentist, but Jesus Harold Christ, he was at least reasonable with his pricing. I got a root canal and crown about 3 years ago and it was around $1,000. I know the crown was no more then $550.

This new dentist seemed like they were just after money. I get x-rays and they tell me I need the RC. They had the pictures right on the computer and it was like a fully 3-d xray, which was pretty cool, although absolutely disgusting.

So then the Dr. tells me I need a RC and rolls. Barely says a word to me. Next thing I know they are taking pictures of my face for my profile. I'm not an insecure person, but I'd rather have my profile pic be of my face when it isn't swollen. Then they took pictures of my teeth. It all just felt a little invasive to me. Maybe it was just because I wasn't prepared for it, or none of this was explained to me, but it all gave me an uneasy feeling.

Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :goodposting:

When I explain that that is more then 3 times what I paid for my last RC, she goes into some rehearsed line about Dr. Rever chargers the going rate for this area. I'm not comfortable paying more just because of where I live. It just doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse to charge people more.

So, tomorrow, I'm going back to my old dentist in the much poor county to get better pricing. To top it all off I had to insist the Dr. write me a prescription for some anti-biotics as they weren't trying to. I paid $190 for three Xrays and the visit.

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Just had this done..... Root canal was about $1,000 and crown will be about $500.Of course I have insurance so it will only be about $400 out of pocket......

Since I'm not getting the work done today, I'm going to go ahead and bite the bullet and sign up for some again.
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Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :goodposting:

That's wack. Dig this. I live in an affluent suburb of Boston. See a $$$$ Chinese dentist (Harvard Dental School). Go to a $$$$$ endodontist (Tufts Dental professor) when I need a root canal... and I probably have another coming later this year. But I went for a root canal last fall... endodontist charged $1,400. I don't think he got the whole $1,400 because dental insurance capped his fee, but his charge was $1,400.And today I got a solid gold crown.... $1,400 from the Chinese dentist. In between the two, I did go to a periodontist (Tufts Dental School) for a crown lengthening procedure for another $1,200. So that's a total of $4,000 there going to top-notch specialists each step of the way and getting a gold crown, not porcelein. If your dentist is doing this all one stop for $3,500, and going with a porcelein crown (as I suspect), something is wrong with that picture.No fancy grillwork with the gold, either. Molar #31 needed a thin crown and porcelein was not going to be strong enough as thin as the crown needed to be.
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Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :pickle:

That's wack. Dig this. I live in an affluent suburb of Boston. See a $$$$ Chinese dentist (Harvard Dental School). Go to a $$$$$ endodontist (Tufts Dental professor) when I need a root canal... and I probably have another coming later this year. But I went for a root canal last fall... endodontist charged $1,400. I don't think he got the whole $1,400 because dental insurance capped his fee, but his charge was $1,400.And today I got a solid gold crown.... $1,400 from the Chinese dentist. In between the two, I did go to a periodontist (Tufts Dental School) for a crown lengthening procedure for another $1,200. So that's a total of $4,000 there going to top-notch specialists each step of the way and getting a gold crown, not porcelein. If your dentist is doing this all one stop for $3,500, and going with a porcelein crown (as I suspect), something is wrong with that picture.No fancy grillwork with the gold, either. Molar #31 needed a thin crown and porcelein was not going to be strong enough as thin as the crown needed to be.
You got a gold tooth?
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$550 for a crown ? wtf ?

I just got my permanent crown this morning.

$1200 total / $600 out of pocket

Santa Barbara inflated pricing ?

nope, that is still very fair/cheap.

If a Dentist charged me under $1k for a crown, I'd want to know what country it was made in.

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Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :thumbup:

That's wack. Dig this. I live in an affluent suburb of Boston. See a $$$$ Chinese dentist (Harvard Dental School). Go to a $$$$$ endodontist (Tufts Dental professor) when I need a root canal... and I probably have another coming later this year. But I went for a root canal last fall... endodontist charged $1,400. I don't think he got the whole $1,400 because dental insurance capped his fee, but his charge was $1,400.And today I got a solid gold crown.... $1,400 from the Chinese dentist. In between the two, I did go to a periodontist (Tufts Dental School) for a crown lengthening procedure for another $1,200. So that's a total of $4,000 there going to top-notch specialists each step of the way and getting a gold crown, not porcelein. If your dentist is doing this all one stop for $3,500, and going with a porcelein crown (as I suspect), something is wrong with that picture.No fancy grillwork with the gold, either. Molar #31 needed a thin crown and porcelein was not going to be strong enough as thin as the crown needed to be.
You got a gold tooth?
I asked my dentist about the gold option today.I thought only oldtimers had gold in their mouth.My porcelain crown, installed today, has a gold inlay, some I believe have platinum inlaysCall me wack, but I prefer white teeth in my mouth.
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Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :thumbup:

That's wack. Dig this. I live in an affluent suburb of Boston. See a $$$$ Chinese dentist (Harvard Dental School). Go to a $$$$$ endodontist (Tufts Dental professor) when I need a root canal... and I probably have another coming later this year. But I went for a root canal last fall... endodontist charged $1,400. I don't think he got the whole $1,400 because dental insurance capped his fee, but his charge was $1,400.And today I got a solid gold crown.... $1,400 from the Chinese dentist. In between the two, I did go to a periodontist (Tufts Dental School) for a crown lengthening procedure for another $1,200. So that's a total of $4,000 there going to top-notch specialists each step of the way and getting a gold crown, not porcelein. If your dentist is doing this all one stop for $3,500, and going with a porcelein crown (as I suspect), something is wrong with that picture.No fancy grillwork with the gold, either. Molar #31 needed a thin crown and porcelein was not going to be strong enough as thin as the crown needed to be.
You got a gold tooth?
Gold is much better than porcelain.
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Then the finance lady comes in to go over the costs. $1,700 for the RC and $1,800 for the crown work. :thumbup:

That's wack. Dig this. I live in an affluent suburb of Boston. See a $$$$ Chinese dentist (Harvard Dental School). Go to a $$$$$ endodontist (Tufts Dental professor) when I need a root canal... and I probably have another coming later this year. But I went for a root canal last fall... endodontist charged $1,400. I don't think he got the whole $1,400 because dental insurance capped his fee, but his charge was $1,400.And today I got a solid gold crown.... $1,400 from the Chinese dentist. In between the two, I did go to a periodontist (Tufts Dental School) for a crown lengthening procedure for another $1,200. So that's a total of $4,000 there going to top-notch specialists each step of the way and getting a gold crown, not porcelein. If your dentist is doing this all one stop for $3,500, and going with a porcelein crown (as I suspect), something is wrong with that picture.No fancy grillwork with the gold, either. Molar #31 needed a thin crown and porcelein was not going to be strong enough as thin as the crown needed to be.
You got a gold tooth?
Gold is much better than porcelain.
As long as you have the gold on the inner portion of the crown, it doesn't matter long term if you go with gold or porcelain.
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My porcelain crown, installed today, has a gold inlay, some I believe have platinum inlaysCall me wack, but I prefer white teeth in my mouth.

Gold and other alloys are used as "copings". Porcelain (glass) is fused/bonded to this alloy coping. This is known as a "PFM--porcelain fused to metal". Some folks like "all ceramic" and utilize hip zirconia, lithium dysilicate, and other ceramic materials as copings. They do not have the flexural strength as metal, and do not "flex" the same way porcelain does, so these all ceramic crowns have limited applications--mostly in your anterior, or front teeth, where your biting/grinding forces are significantly less. They do not have the "shading" of many PFMs and thus look very white and chiclet-like.The material price of all ceramic is very stable, and low in comparison to gold and other semiprecious alloys, thus have been very popular lately.
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My porcelain crown, installed today, has a gold inlay, some I believe have platinum inlaysCall me wack, but I prefer white teeth in my mouth.

Gold and other alloys are used as "copings". Porcelain (glass) is fused/bonded to this alloy coping. This is known as a "PFM--porcelain fused to metal". Some folks like "all ceramic" and utilize hip zirconia, lithium dysilicate, and other ceramic materials as copings. They do not have the flexural strength as metal, and do not "flex" the same way porcelain does, so these all ceramic crowns have limited applications--mostly in your anterior, or front teeth, where your biting/grinding forces are significantly less. They do not have the "shading" of many PFMs and thus look very white and chiclet-like.The material price of all ceramic is very stable, and low in comparison to gold and other semiprecious alloys, thus have been very popular lately.
I was concerned about the fusion properties of the gold and porcelain,but my dentist said no problem at all. Have you heard of any long term problems with this part of the procedure, 5 ?The crown was made in Newport Beach, not on site.
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My porcelain crown, installed today, has a gold inlay, some I believe have platinum inlaysCall me wack, but I prefer white teeth in my mouth.

Gold and other alloys are used as "copings". Porcelain (glass) is fused/bonded to this alloy coping. This is known as a "PFM--porcelain fused to metal". Some folks like "all ceramic" and utilize hip zirconia, lithium dysilicate, and other ceramic materials as copings. They do not have the flexural strength as metal, and do not "flex" the same way porcelain does, so these all ceramic crowns have limited applications--mostly in your anterior, or front teeth, where your biting/grinding forces are significantly less. They do not have the "shading" of many PFMs and thus look very white and chiclet-like.The material price of all ceramic is very stable, and low in comparison to gold and other semiprecious alloys, thus have been very popular lately.
I was concerned about the fusion properties of the gold and porcelain,but my dentist said no problem at all. Have you heard of any long term problems with this part of the procedure, 5 ?The crown was made in Newport Beach, not on site.
You had the largest Dental Lab in the USA make your crown, more than likely. No worries, they are good folks who do good work.PFM's have been done for many, many years. Don't worry one bit. Its the newer all ceramics--like zirconium--that don't have the longterm testing.
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My porcelain crown, installed today, has a gold inlay, some I believe have platinum inlaysCall me wack, but I prefer white teeth in my mouth.

Gold and other alloys are used as "copings". Porcelain (glass) is fused/bonded to this alloy coping. This is known as a "PFM--porcelain fused to metal". Some folks like "all ceramic" and utilize hip zirconia, lithium dysilicate, and other ceramic materials as copings. They do not have the flexural strength as metal, and do not "flex" the same way porcelain does, so these all ceramic crowns have limited applications--mostly in your anterior, or front teeth, where your biting/grinding forces are significantly less. They do not have the "shading" of many PFMs and thus look very white and chiclet-like.The material price of all ceramic is very stable, and low in comparison to gold and other semiprecious alloys, thus have been very popular lately.
I was concerned about the fusion properties of the gold and porcelain,but my dentist said no problem at all. Have you heard of any long term problems with this part of the procedure, 5 ?The crown was made in Newport Beach, not on site.
You had the largest Dental Lab in the USA make your crown, more than likely. No worries, they are good folks who do good work.PFM's have been done for many, many years. Don't worry one bit. Its the newer all ceramics--like zirconium--that don't have the longterm testing.
Thanks for the insight, 5. :popcorn:
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The biggest thing is that with no insurance you are going to get charged the street price, which is total horsecrap and not the insurance price, which is the price the insurance company has the dentist contracted down to. That should be your negotiating point with the dentist, if possible, to pay the metlife dental coverage price (both halves of course) and not the price of the guy with no coverage off the street.

I see the bills that my dentist submits to metlife and I see what they actually allow him to charge me, as a member. The difference is amazing and you have to try and get them to bill you off of that amount. We can easily be talking about hundreds of dollars difference here, fight the fight.

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If the tooth were a molar, in my office the root canal is $720, a crown is about $800 - some teeth need what's referred to as a buildup or post... that may add $250-300.

So all told that's $1520-1800 in the cheapest area of the country, the midwest.

Gold is better than porcelain to metal, don't let anyone ever tell you different.

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The biggest thing is that with no insurance you are going to get charged the street price, which is total horsecrap and not the insurance price, which is the price the insurance company has the dentist contracted down to. That should be your negotiating point with the dentist, if possible, to pay the metlife dental coverage price (both halves of course) and not the price of the guy with no coverage off the street.I see the bills that my dentist submits to metlife and I see what they actually allow him to charge me, as a member. The difference is amazing and you have to try and get them to bill you off of that amount. We can easily be talking about hundreds of dollars difference here, fight the fight.

In most cases the dental insurance contracted rate (if I"m a participating provider) is about 20-25% less than my normal rate.What's basically happening is that a dental insurance company is bundling up all my products and selling them back to me at 75-80 cents on the dollar, but for that I get their marketing which puts me on a list and gets my services out there.It's a volume discount type of thing.I can promise you that the minute you start hardballing a guy and getting him to cut his rate that he's going to turn around and find a way to get the job done cheaper to keep his profit the same.you want my $800 crown for $600? Fine then instead of sending it to the good dental lab I send it to that charges me $150 for a crown, i'm shipping it to the cheap ### lab where they charge me $75. and so on and so forth.i'm not saying I'd do this... but i'm not real keen to negotiate much either.... but I know guys that do, and I know this is what they do.. you want a cheaper product? they ain't budging on their margin.. but they'll find a way to get you the product you want to pay for.
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I had an existing root canal/post become infected. So I had the existing post removed, a screw post replacement put in, and a temporary crown on top. To date, that has cost me around 3500.

When the temp is replaced with a permanent crown, the fabrication plus removal of the temp and replacement of the permanent will run another 1500.

Total cost will be 5G.

:thumbup:

Of course this is the same dentist whose average patient drops 50G....

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What about flying to Mexico and getting it done? http://www.mexicandentalvacation.com/

Good luck with that.... man I've seen some mexican dentistry that's made me wince.

I would be petrified if i was on vacation in Mexico and had a dental emergency.... knowing what i know... i'd just be really concerned

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I had an existing root canal/post become infected. So I had the existing post removed, a screw post replacement put in, and a temporary crown on top. To date, that has cost me around 3500.When the temp is replaced with a permanent crown, the fabrication plus removal of the temp and replacement of the permanent will run another 1500.Total cost will be 5G. :thumbup: Of course this is the same dentist whose average patient drops 50G....

you had a dental implant done.in the midwest that would cost closer to 2800-3000You picked out an implant dentist who routinely restores entire mouths.those people have to practice in really wealthy areas.... wow
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If the tooth were a molar, in my office the root canal is $720, a crown is about $800 - some teeth need what's referred to as a buildup or post... that may add $250-300.So all told that's $1520-1800 in the cheapest area of the country, the midwest.Gold is better than porcelain to metal, don't let anyone ever tell you different.

$3.5k - $1.8k = $1.7k...for that kind of savings, I'd be flying out to KC for a weekend to get some dental work done.
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If the tooth were a molar, in my office the root canal is $720, a crown is about $800 - some teeth need what's referred to as a buildup or post... that may add $250-300.So all told that's $1520-1800 in the cheapest area of the country, the midwest.Gold is better than porcelain to metal, don't let anyone ever tell you different.

$3.5k - $1.8k = $1.7k...for that kind of savings, I'd be flying out to KC for a weekend to get some dental work done.
unfortunately that kind of work requires 2 sometimes 3 visits... i'd be happy to help but i bet you can find someone who would do a good job in your area for ~2200-2400dentistry is so variable in cost by area... it's amazing when i compare fees to my amigos on the coasts on in denver or chicago
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If the tooth were a molar, in my office the root canal is $720, a crown is about $800 - some teeth need what's referred to as a buildup or post... that may add $250-300.

So all told that's $1520-1800 in the cheapest area of the country, the midwest.

Gold is better than porcelain to metal, don't let anyone ever tell you different.

$3.5k - $1.8k = $1.7k...for that kind of savings, I'd be flying out to KC for a weekend to get some dental work done.
unfortunately that kind of work requires 2 sometimes 3 visits... i'd be happy to help but i bet you can find someone who would do a good job in your area for ~2200-2400

dentistry is so variable in cost by area... it's amazing when i compare fees to my amigos on the coasts on in denver or chicago

Exactly. This guy wanted to charge me more because we are in Montgomery County. My old dentist is in Prince Georges County and is literally 1/3 the price. Might also be because my older dentist isn't taking any new clients and the new guy is much younger and doesn't appear to have a full schedule.
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i have a question for you Dentist....

My mouth was/is infected. After deciding I wasn't going to go through with it and I paid for my exam and xrays, I went home. Then after speaking with my wife we called back up to the dentist and had to ask that they prescribe antibiotics. We asked why they didn't prescribe them in the first place and they replied "Well, you didn't ask." So I got my prescription and I'm going to go see my old dentist Monday.

After speaking to my Mother about this, she said she was shocked that they were going to do the root canal while my mouth was /is infected. She said she thought they would have to wait for the infection to subside before doing the procedure.

Is this true? If it is, why would they be so eager to do the procedure? To give you more of an idea of my condition, Cheek was pretty puffy and it was difficult to open my jaw. Since being on the meds, the swelling has gone down but not all the way, and my jaw is still slightly difficult to open fully.

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If the tooth were a molar, in my office the root canal is $720, a crown is about $800 - some teeth need what's referred to as a buildup or post... that may add $250-300.

So all told that's $1520-1800 in the cheapest area of the country, the midwest.

Gold is better than porcelain to metal, don't let anyone ever tell you different.

$3.5k - $1.8k = $1.7k...for that kind of savings, I'd be flying out to KC for a weekend to get some dental work done.
unfortunately that kind of work requires 2 sometimes 3 visits... i'd be happy to help but i bet you can find someone who would do a good job in your area for ~2200-2400

dentistry is so variable in cost by area... it's amazing when i compare fees to my amigos on the coasts on in denver or chicago

Exactly. This guy wanted to charge me more because we are in Montgomery County. My old dentist is in Prince Georges County and is literally 1/3 the price. Might also be because my older dentist isn't taking any new clients and the new guy is much younger and doesn't appear to have a full schedule.
I'm not familiar with these counties, but i'm assuming they are in the same general area?

triple within a 10 mile radius seems super extreme.

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i have a question for you Dentist....My mouth was/is infected. After deciding I wasn't going to go through with it and I paid for my exam and xrays, I went home. Then after speaking with my wife we called back up to the dentist and had to ask that they prescribe antibiotics. We asked why they didn't prescribe them in the first place and they replied "Well, you didn't ask." So I got my prescription and I'm going to go see my old dentist Monday.After speaking to my Mother about this, she said she was shocked that they were going to do the root canal while my mouth was /is infected. She said she thought they would have to wait for the infection to subside before doing the procedure. Is this true? If it is, why would they be so eager to do the procedure? To give you more of an idea of my condition, Cheek was pretty puffy and it was difficult to open my jaw. Since being on the meds, the swelling has gone down but not all the way, and my jaw is still slightly difficult to open fully.

1) if people have a toothache generally speaking you want to get them out of pain - when people are miserable, sending them home with meds to continue suffering sucks.2) if you are actually swollen though it is sometimes advisable to do antibiotics and let the swelling subside because the presence of infection can make it so that our anesthetics don't work, which means the procedure would be EXCRUCIATING.So what's the best play? let 'em suffer, or have a possibly painful procedure.
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The biggest thing is that with no insurance you are going to get charged the street price, which is total horsecrap and not the insurance price, which is the price the insurance company has the dentist contracted down to. That should be your negotiating point with the dentist, if possible, to pay the metlife dental coverage price (both halves of course) and not the price of the guy with no coverage off the street.I see the bills that my dentist submits to metlife and I see what they actually allow him to charge me, as a member. The difference is amazing and you have to try and get them to bill you off of that amount. We can easily be talking about hundreds of dollars difference here, fight the fight.

In most cases the dental insurance contracted rate (if I"m a participating provider) is about 20-25% less than my normal rate.What's basically happening is that a dental insurance company is bundling up all my products and selling them back to me at 75-80 cents on the dollar, but for that I get their marketing which puts me on a list and gets my services out there.It's a volume discount type of thing.I can promise you that the minute you start hardballing a guy and getting him to cut his rate that he's going to turn around and find a way to get the job done cheaper to keep his profit the same.you want my $800 crown for $600? Fine then instead of sending it to the good dental lab I send it to that charges me $150 for a crown, i'm shipping it to the cheap ### lab where they charge me $75. and so on and so forth.i'm not saying I'd do this... but i'm not real keen to negotiate much either.... but I know guys that do, and I know this is what they do.. you want a cheaper product? they ain't budging on their margin.. but they'll find a way to get you the product you want to pay for.
So what you are saying is that someone who has dental insurance is going to get sub par work done because the insurance company has pre-negotiated a discount for me? Should I be worried that my dentist will do the same?
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So what you are saying is that someone who has dental insurance is going to get sub par work done because the insurance company has pre-negotiated a discount for me? Should I be worried that my dentist will do the same?

not necessarily.I've tried to run my business with as little insurance participation as possible so that as often as I can I am collecting the same amount of money on every procedure no matter who i'm working on so that I feel good about doing it the same way every time.However, I have friends that participate with multiple insurances, even the ones that pay dentists like total crap (because generally the crappier the insurance, the more people that have it because it's cheap).So in one room they are doing a crown on someone who's paying $800, another room $600, another room, $500The $800 crown guy gets sent to a nice dental lab that really makes a great crown and charges $200 to the dentist to make it.The $500 crown guy can't get sent to that lab because then the profit margin on that crown would be so low it wouldn't even be worth doing... so that gets sent to a cheap lab that charges maybe like $75, or maybe it gets shipped to China or India for a $45-50 crown so that the profit margin is tolerable.Not everyone does this, and it's not illegal or even unethical actually.And some guys would send all 3 crowns to the China/India lab just because they want the most profit all the time.some guys would send all 3 of them to the nice lab, but they'd need to watch their business pretty close because they are making next to nothing on the $500 crown.I can tell you this... if the economy forced me to start accepting more insurance (and it may), and I started having to accept discounted fees on certain patients, I would also feel pressured to treat people a little differently depending on the compensation levels myself.. I hope that never had to happen, I hate the idea of it... but America is pushing for health care prices to drop... but supply companies aren't going to drop prices, my employees aren't going to work for less, my landlord isn't going to lower my rates just because i'm in health care, the electric company isn't going to help me cut costs either.So America.. you want lower health care costs..... that either means you're going to have to get doctors and their staff to accept a lot less pay and thus over time drive the best and brightest out of the healthcare industry, or doctors are going to be forced to make a lot of cuts in quality of products and services chosen to do business with to maintain a decent salary for themselves.It's a big time difficult problem.
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So what you are saying is that someone who has dental insurance is going to get sub par work done because the insurance company has pre-negotiated a discount for me? Should I be worried that my dentist will do the same?

not necessarily.I've tried to run my business with as little insurance participation as possible so that as often as I can I am collecting the same amount of money on every procedure no matter who i'm working on so that I feel good about doing it the same way every time.However, I have friends that participate with multiple insurances, even the ones that pay dentists like total crap (because generally the crappier the insurance, the more people that have it because it's cheap).So in one room they are doing a crown on someone who's paying $800, another room $600, another room, $500The $800 crown guy gets sent to a nice dental lab that really makes a great crown and charges $200 to the dentist to make it.The $500 crown guy can't get sent to that lab because then the profit margin on that crown would be so low it wouldn't even be worth doing... so that gets sent to a cheap lab that charges maybe like $75, or maybe it gets shipped to China or India for a $45-50 crown so that the profit margin is tolerable.Not everyone does this, and it's not illegal or even unethical actually.And some guys would send all 3 crowns to the China/India lab just because they want the most profit all the time.some guys would send all 3 of them to the nice lab, but they'd need to watch their business pretty close because they are making next to nothing on the $500 crown.I can tell you this... if the economy forced me to start accepting more insurance (and it may), and I started having to accept discounted fees on certain patients, I would also feel pressured to treat people a little differently depending on the compensation levels myself.. I hope that never had to happen, I hate the idea of it... but America is pushing for health care prices to drop... but supply companies aren't going to drop prices, my employees aren't going to work for less, my landlord isn't going to lower my rates just because i'm in health care, the electric company isn't going to help me cut costs either.So America.. you want lower health care costs..... that either means you're going to have to get doctors and their staff to accept a lot less pay and thus over time drive the best and brightest out of the healthcare industry, or doctors are going to be forced to make a lot of cuts in quality of products and services chosen to do business with to maintain a decent salary for themselves.It's a big time difficult problem.
is there a significant difference in quality between the Chinese and "high-quality" crowns? Why can't those guys drop their rates too? Are they not seeing competition like everyone else?
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