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34 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

I dont care enough to go back and read the thread, but it should be noted; Tiger Woods himself said he was done. To rip on people who agreed seems odd. 

Tiger said he was done two years ago at the Champions Dinner when he could barely walk. He was still winning when many of these comments were made.

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You agreed to adopt 2 of my kids.  PM me your address.

Would you entertain 2 children, ethnicity and gender unknown?  

Tiger is now official #13 in the world.  From 1189 to 13 in one calendar year.  Also, he's only played 22 events.  OWGR requires 40 counting events, so he has 18 zeros and he's still 13th.  If his ran

22 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

The problem is that he was done in 2009 when he won four times.  And done in 2012 when he won six times.  And done in 2013 when he won seven times, and lead the money list, and was the #1 player in the world.  And done last year when he was in contention all summer.  And still done when he won the "5th Major" at The Players at the end of the year and damn near won the Fed Ex.

None of it was about Tiger.  It was about the people who don't like him getting their licks in. 

And now that Tiger proved (again) that he's not done?  Now they're concerned about decency and fairness and "you're being mean".

Suck it, haters.

 

6 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Tiger said he was done two years ago at the Champions Dinner when he could barely walk. He was still winning when many of these comments were made.

Fair enough. I didnt realize this went back a decade. Carry on. 

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Great post Tobias.  I’ve always maintained Tiger is the best golfer I’ve seen but Nicklaus was a little before my time.  But, I’ve watched and read enough and listened to people I trust that said Tiger and Jack we’re peers at the top so I was always ok with the idea of co-GOATs.  I thought Tiger cost himself that solo title and it was self-inflicted.  If he somehow wins 2-4 more and gets closer to 100 career wins then there’s no doubt in my mind who is better.  And completely agree about the current fields - top to bottom it’s not close. 

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Congrats to Tiger and all.  But if we take a step back and look at this, I'd be a little hesitant to say "He's Back!", which seems to be a common call from fans and sportswriters alike.

First, he had a lot of lucky breaks.  And nothing wrong with that.  A win is a win.  But he had several shots that were very bad mis-hits that hit trees and came back or landed in a spot with an alley to the green.  The one on Amen Corner was his greatest luck shot of the tournament.  That ball was OB, hit a tree and landed in the second cut giving him a great shot into the green.  Again, good for him and the better you are the luckier you get.  But that's not quite the same as dominating.

Second, he actually scored fairly crappy on Sunday.  The announcers made it sound like he was making a charge, but the only guys to play worse than him were the two other guys in his group.  I forget the actual number, but it was something like only 4 guys or so out of the top 20 shot worse than him.  Again, that's from memory, so I might be off slightly, but you get the idea.  I mean, closing out The Masters win with a bogey isn't Tiger of old.

Lastly, I believe he became the 11th or 12th oldest man to win a major with that win.  And no one above him on the list ever won again after that.  Key point here is: Tiger is old.  

So, again, great tournament for him this weekend.  Many people, including himself, thought he'd never win another one.  But I'm more inclined to think this was everything working out perfect for him, rather than the old Tiger being back.  

Also, it was a shame he was only allowed to bring one of his girlfriends to stand with his mom and kids.  

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Not a fan of the man.  Hate the hype.  Still, one has to doff their cap  Maybe he has gown up.  I hope there is room for growth. It was a nice moment when he met his family immediately after.  His piers, folks that know him far better than I seemed pleased, and that says something. 

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5 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Not a fan of the man.  Hate the hype.  Still, one has to doff their cap  Maybe he has gown up.  I hope there is room for growth. It was a nice moment when he met his family immediately after.  His piers, folks that know him far better than I seemed pleased, and that says something. 

:goodposting:

Not a fan of Tiger, either. I hated the hype, too, and didn't really like how he conducted himself in his personal life, which, while judgmental, is a human reaction.

And you're right. Who knows? Maybe he has grown up. In addition, your point about his peers is well-taken. 

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Phenomenal story and one of the best (if not the best) comebacks in sports history.  
 

One of the things about this thread is true.  He doesn't have the fear factor the way he had in his younger years when he was able to intimidate competitors on the course.  But that isn't so much a knock on him but rather the fact that there is a vast amount of young talented players, not just american but from all over the world playing great today... many of which were inspired by Tiger Woods.  

Having said that, it was his top competitors that faltered in critical spots yesterday (12 for a group and also 15 for Molinari).  Spots where Tiger did not.   

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I know this, I would shoot at the stick on 12.  It takes great restraint not to take the temptation offered.  Even having seen that trap sprung a thousand times my eyes tell me that there is no trap.  That, along with a thousand other reasons stands between me and a Green jacket.

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40 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

There's just no way this can be true. The talent pool has undergone a massive expansion over the last couple decades. Just comparing the flags on the leaderboard at majors makes it pretty clear, whether you use the 2000s or now.  At the start of Jack's career Euros and Aussies didn't even make the trip to compete in the US in majors sometimes. For example in writing this post I read about a Nicklaus semi-contemporary whose name I barely even recognize, Peter Thomsen, who is apparently considered the greatest Aussie golfer of all time.  During the 1960s the dude finished in the top ten at the British Open eight times, including a win. He only played in other majors three times during that entire decade. In his career he won the British Open as many times as he played in the US Open (5).

Now people from those countries blanket the leaderboard of events like the Valspar Championship. Plus there's an entire continent of golfers that basically didn't exist in Jack's era.  And the game is much more popular in America too, thanks to both of them.

Basically, Nicklaus beat a bunch of Americans who grew up in country clubs along with the occasional random from another English-speaking country. Tiger is beating the planet.

great post, very true

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15 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Second, he actually scored fairly crappy on Sunday.  The announcers made it sound like he was making a charge, but the only guys to play worse than him were the two other guys in his group.  I forget the actual number, but it was something like only 4 guys or so out of the top 20 shot worse than him.  Again, that's from memory, so I might be off slightly, but you get the idea.  I mean, closing out The Masters win with a bogey isn't Tiger of old.

He shot -2 yesterday and was under par for all four days.  Not too crappy.  

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I was talking to my 16 year old son about Tiger's victory and he was amazed that this was Tiger's 15th major victory. I then told him how he won the U.S. Open by 15 strokes, the Masters by 12 strokes, and a British open by 8 strokes. Jack once won a major by 9 strokes and Rory won two majors by 8 strokes and 7 strokes respectively, but no really comes close to how dominant Woods was over the rest of the field.

The thing I noticed about his win yesterday was that his emotions were in check all day. He hit some bad drives, but there were no blow ups or profanity accompanying any of them. He took them in stride and just focused on what he needed to do to get out of his bad position. This shows not only maturity as a golfer, but maturity as a person as well. And probably a key factor in why he won.

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3 minutes ago, dhockster said:

I was talking to my 16 year old son about Tiger's victory and he was amazed that this was Tiger's 15th major victory. I then told him how he won the U.S. Open by 15 strokes, the Masters by 12 strokes, and a British open by 8 strokes. Jack once won a major by 9 strokes and Rory won two majors by 8 strokes and 7 strokes respectively, but no really comes close to how dominant Woods was over the rest of the field.

The thing I noticed about his win yesterday was that his emotions were in check all day. He hit some bad drives, but there were no blow ups or profanity accompanying any of them. He took them in stride and just focused on what he needed to do to get out of his bad position. This shows not only maturity as a golfer, but maturity as a person as well. And probably a key factor in why he won.

Check the gum.

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23 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Congrats to Tiger and all.  But if we take a step back and look at this, I'd be a little hesitant to say "He's Back!", which seems to be a common call from fans and sportswriters alike.

First, he had a lot of lucky breaks.  And nothing wrong with that.  A win is a win.  But he had several shots that were very bad mis-hits that hit trees and came back or landed in a spot with an alley to the green.  The one on Amen Corner was his greatest luck shot of the tournament.  That ball was OB, hit a tree and landed in the second cut giving him a great shot into the green.  Again, good for him and the better you are the luckier you get.  But that's not quite the same as dominating.

Second, he actually scored fairly crappy on Sunday.  The announcers made it sound like he was making a charge, but the only guys to play worse than him were the two other guys in his group.  I forget the actual number, but it was something like only 4 guys or so out of the top 20 shot worse than him.  Again, that's from memory, so I might be off slightly, but you get the idea.  I mean, closing out The Masters win with a bogey isn't Tiger of old.

Lastly, I believe he became the 11th or 12th oldest man to win a major with that win.  And no one above him on the list ever won again after that.  Key point here is: Tiger is old.  

So, again, great tournament for him this weekend.  Many people, including himself, thought he'd never win another one.  But I'm more inclined to think this was everything working out perfect for him, rather than the old Tiger being back.  

Also, it was a shame he was only allowed to bring one of his girlfriends to stand with his mom and kids.  

After his errant tee shot on 18, he bogeyed the hole because he knew he could and still win the tournament. He wasn't going to make a mistake that would cause him a double bogey or worse. If he had to make par to win the tournament he obviously would have played the hole different after his tee shot.

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Doesn't anybody know what happened on the 2nd on 18? Did it hit a limb?

And he didn't play crappy. He played very well, actually. And stuck to his game plan, which helped him win. 12 was a perfect example of that. The other guys got greedy, Tiger played for par. And that effectively was the tournament.

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11 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

He shot -2 yesterday and was under par for all four days.  Not too crappy.  

There's a difference between scoring well and shooting well.  Again, others were much better.  My point was that he didn't dominate like the Tiger of old.  

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6 minutes ago, dhockster said:

After his errant tee shot on 18, he bogeyed the hole because he knew he could and still win the tournament. He wasn't going to make a mistake that would cause him a double bogey or worse. If he had to make par to win the tournament he obviously would have played the hole different after his tee shot.

This is the key to my point.

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Again, I'm not taking anything away from his win.  It was a great job by him and he played well enough to win.  

My only point is that I think it's incorrect to think that a 43 year old Tiger Woods is back to his old self of dominating the competition.  One of Tiger's greatest assets 20 years ago was that the entire field feared him.  He was in their heads.  But that fear is gone.  These young kids don't fear him.  They think they're just as good or better.  Seeing Koepka stripe a drive down the middle of the fairway on 17 while people were still cheering for Tiger was a great example of that.  He hit that shot to show that he wasn't fazed by Tiger.  

I honestly don't think what I'm saying is that controversial.  

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5 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

There's a difference between scoring well and shooting well.  Again, others were much better.  My point was that he didn't dominate like the Tiger of old.  

The Tiger of old, as in the guy who comes out and destroys the field while walking away with majors, is long gone.  I don't think anyone would argue that.  The guy had fusion surgery on his back.  And he's 43 which in itself would cause him to adjust his swing... which used to be violent.  Those days are gone, but as he proved this weekend, he has adjusted his game to suit his game plan.  

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Again, I'm not taking anything away from his win.  It was a great job by him and he played well enough to win.  

My only point is that I think it's incorrect to think that a 43 year old Tiger Woods is back to his old self of dominating the competition.  One of Tiger's greatest assets 20 years ago was that the entire field feared him.  He was in their heads.  But that fear is gone.  These young kids don't fear him.  They think they're just as good or better.  Seeing Koepka stripe a drive down the middle of the fairway on 17 while people were still cheering for Tiger was a great example of that.  He hit that shot to show that he wasn't fazed by Tiger.  

I honestly don't think what I'm saying is that controversial.  

You aren't saying anything controversial.  I don't think anyone claimed or has expected Tiger to dominate the field in majors.  It was said that he'd never win again.  That turned out to be false.  Then it was said that winning minor tournaments (ham and eggers?) meant nothing.  And that he'd never win a major again.  Now that has happened I suppose the next call will be "well he won't dominate the field anymore" or something.  Well, okay.  No argument here.  He will compete, though, as long as he stays healthy and until he gets more age on him.  

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9 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Again, I'm not taking anything away from his win.  It was a great job by him and he played well enough to win.  

My only point is that I think it's incorrect to think that a 43 year old Tiger Woods is back to his old self of dominating the competition.  One of Tiger's greatest assets 20 years ago was that the entire field feared him.  He was in their heads.  But that fear is gone.  These young kids don't fear him.  They think they're just as good or better.  Seeing Koepka stripe a drive down the middle of the fairway on 17 while people were still cheering for Tiger was a great example of that.  He hit that shot to show that he wasn't fazed by Tiger.  

I honestly don't think what I'm saying is that controversial.  

He's back to winning Majors. And he just came from off the lead in the final day for the first time in his career against one of the most stacked Major championship leaderboards in history.

The 2000 version is never coming back. He could win the Grand Slam this year and still not touch the level of play he was at in 2000. Although, his iron play right now is as good as ever. Possibly his short game, too.

Edited by Apple Jack
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16 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Doesn't anybody know what happened on the 2nd on 18? Did it hit a limb?

And he didn't play crappy. He played very well, actually. And stuck to his game plan, which helped him win. 12 was a perfect example of that. The other guys got greedy, Tiger played for par. And that effectively was the tournament.

He said the ball had mud on it so he played it super safe with the two stroke lead.  And I thought it made sense to stay away from the unpredictability of the bunkers. Could catch a lip, or have the ball end up on a downslope, and all of a sudden you're trying to get up and down or two-putt from 40 feet instead of 15.

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He also talked about his strategy on 18 and his approach to the green.  He saw that Brooks didn't make birdie and knew he only needed a bogey to win.  Said he had mud on the ball so he didn't want to hit a high hard fade to try and hit the green, only have it to over-cook and be in more trouble.  Just wanted to slice it up near the green, chip and have two putts for the win.  

If Brooks made his birdie, Tiger's approach shot would have been different.  He did say that his second shot wasn't exactly what he wanted but it did the job.  

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27 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

There's a difference between scoring well and shooting well.  Again, others were much better.  My point was that he didn't dominate like the Tiger of old.  

Which was what makes this new Tiger so great to watch IMO.  He's evolved to the smarter, veteran golfer.  He played the back nine like a fiddle, while his younger competitors made bad swings and decisions.  

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I think you guys misread my post or assumed I was jumping into an argument that was ongoing in this thread.  Go back and read what I wrote.  I didn't say my post was directed to anyone in this thread.  I was talking about what I read from some sportswriters and a huge majority of Twitter comments on those sites.  

I think we're all pretty much in agreement here on where he stands, judging from the replies I got.

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39 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

And birdied 13, 15, and 16.

And smartly played 12.  And really 13 and 15.  He didn’t throw it at the flags.  He played to birdie the par 5s rather than try eagle.  He played middle of the green on 12 rather than trying to be a hero and plunk it as others did.

Others made mistakes sure...some of that while trying to distance themselves from Tiger who played nice the course smartly. 

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28 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Again, I'm not taking anything away from his win.  It was a great job by him and he played well enough to win.  

My only point is that I think it's incorrect to think that a 43 year old Tiger Woods is back to his old self of dominating the competition.  One of Tiger's greatest assets 20 years ago was that the entire field feared him.  He was in their heads.  But that fear is gone.  These young kids don't fear him.  They think they're just as good or better.  Seeing Koepka stripe a drive down the middle of the fairway on 17 while people were still cheering for Tiger was a great example of that.  He hit that shot to show that he wasn't fazed by Tiger.  

I honestly don't think what I'm saying is that controversial.  

It's not controversial to say he won't dominate as before - it is controversial to conflate being back and being back to being dominate.  Fins call was great because of the timing and the fact that he was talking about being dominant and reaching Jack's record.  Most people just piled on to mock Tiger over the years because they hated him - you basically admitted you hated him.  He's a hate-able guy, I agree - but the biggest argument on here was people constantly saying he was finished even after he started winning and reached #1.  They felt emboldened to continue to troll as long as he didn't win a major.  Some of the crazier ones, like FavreCo, may continue to troll if/until he gets to 18.  The rest of this year will be fascinating because as good as he was the last few years, he still had that nagging doubt in his head.  Now that he's actually done it again it wouldn't be shocking if he continues to challenge for major titles.  And for many that's shocking.

Edited by AAABatteries
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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

I feel like I made a stupid wager in here or somewhere with another FBG regarding Woods and a major.  I don't want to be a CTSU, so if I did do that, please let me know and I'll honor whatever foolishness I agreed to, if indeed I agreed to anything.  

You agreed to adopt 2 of my kids.  PM me your address.

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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

I feel like I made a stupid wager in here or somewhere with another FBG regarding Woods and a major.  I don't want to be a CTSU, so if I did do that, please let me know and I'll honor whatever foolishness I agreed to, if indeed I agreed to anything.  

You owe me $25,000. I accept cash, check, or paypal

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Tiger's final round score of his five green jackets: 69, 68, 71, 71, 70

The scores of the final six golfers yesterday: 70, 70, 70, 72, 73, 74

Sure he didn't "dominate" but that's not how Tiger plays on Sunday. Apart from starting the final round in the lead, Tiger did what he always does. Put up a decent round and let the others around him succomb to the pressure. 

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2 minutes ago, gump said:

Which was what makes this new Tiger so great to watch IMO.  He's evolved to the smarter, veteran golfer.  He played the back nine like a fiddle, while his younger competitors made bad swings and decisions.  

Again, I didn't say he wasn't fun to watch.  

I'm just going to go ahead and back away from this thread.  I feel like I'm in a politics thread. :lol:

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1 minute ago, Chemical X said:

I would've liked to have seen what happened if Koepkake makes that birdie putt on 18, which he absolutely shanked somehow.

Two things:

1. Koepka actually said in the presser that he hit it how he wanted - maybe he's covering for himself but he seemed to think it was more his read than his putt that was off

2. As many have noted, Tiger plays 18 differently if he is only up 1.  Not to say he still doesn't bogey but you can't assume he plays that 2nd shot the same way.

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Just now, AAABatteries said:

Two things:

1. Koepka actually said in the presser that he hit it how he wanted - maybe he's covering for himself but he seemed to think it was more his read than his putt that was off

2. As many have noted, Tiger plays 18 differently if he is only up 1.  Not to say he still doesn't bogey but you can't assume he plays that 2nd shot the same way.

He likely plays driver, no?  That would be the biggest change IMO.  Also, he needs to keep his hat on permanently or shave his head.

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

Two things:

1. Koepka actually said in the presser that he hit it how he wanted - maybe he's covering for himself but he seemed to think it was more his read than his putt that was off

2. As many have noted, Tiger plays 18 differently if he is only up 1.  Not to say he still doesn't bogey but you can't assume he plays that 2nd shot the same way.

Even Faldo thought it was weird & asked Tiger about it, but Woods said there was mud on one side of the ball so he opted for the shot he thought would net him no worse than a bogey. He knew exactly where Koepka was at but was also cognizant that Arnold Palmer once lost a Masters by doubling #18.

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5 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Again, I didn't say he wasn't fun to watch.  

I'm just going to go ahead and back away from this thread.  I feel like I'm in a politics thread. :lol:

I agree he's not 'back'...the greatest golfer ever at his peak will never be back...but this version can win...a lot.

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21 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

And smartly played 12.  And really 13 and 15.  He didn’t throw it at the flags.  He played to birdie the par 5s rather than try eagle.  He played middle of the green on 12 rather than trying to be a hero and plunk it as others did.

Others made mistakes sure...some of that while trying to distance themselves from Tiger who played nice the course smartly. 

Don't want to come off as pedantic because I only just watched the interview this morning, but Tiger said the shot on #12 was his big mistake of the day. As with my previous post it's that clip on masters.com with Faldo & Nantz from the Butler Cabin.

14 minutes but dunno the exact spot the quotes are at

 

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Since coming back last year, Tiger has played in 19 events with 8 Top 10 finishes. He won the Tour Championship and just won The Masters. In that time, he's played in 5 majors, finishing 6th, 2nd, and 1st in his last three. In his last 9 tournaments, he finished in the Top 6 in six of them. Tiger will likely never be the dominant player that won a major by 15 strokes again, but he clearly is still good enough to be in almost every tournament he enters as long as his body holds up. Who knows if it will, but the recent Tiger should be in the mix wherever he plays.

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36 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

He also talked about his strategy on 18 and his approach to the green.  He saw that Brooks didn't make birdie and knew he only needed a bogey to win.  Said he had mud on the ball so he didn't want to hit a high hard fade to try and hit the green, only have it to over-cook and be in more trouble.  Just wanted to slice it up near the green, chip and have two putts for the win.  

If Brooks made his birdie, Tiger's approach shot would have been different.  He did say that his second shot wasn't exactly what he wanted but it did the job.  

:bag:

OK I'm out 

:lmao:

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11 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

He likely plays driver, no?  That would be the biggest change IMO.  Also, he needs to keep his hat on permanently or shave his head.

His hair is bizarre - he must either have a misshapen head or just doesn't give a crap.

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

Congrats to Tiger and all.  But if we take a step back and look at this, I'd be a little hesitant to say "He's Back!",

Oh boy here we go.

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1 hour ago, Jayrok said:

Phenomenal story and one of the best (if not the best) comebacks in sports history.  
 

One of the things about this thread is true.  He doesn't have the fear factor the way he had in his younger years when he was able to intimidate competitors on the course.  But that isn't so much a knock on him but rather the fact that there is a vast amount of young talented players, not just american but from all over the world playing great today... many of which were inspired by Tiger Woods.  

Having said that, it was his top competitors that faltered in critical spots yesterday (12 for a group and also 15 for Molinari).  Spots where Tiger did not.   

I would argue this is false.  The data we have is the way The Italian Metronome--the guy who hadn't bogeyed a hole in like 50 holes, and who is considered one of the most consistent guys out there--cratered under the pressure of being in the hunt alongside Tiger.  Sure he didn't dominate scorewise like he has some times in the past, but in terms of the "fear factor," Molinari crumbled.  Even clutch Koepka crumbled. That fear factor, and the way it hit the two guys in contention with Tiger, may be what won the day, even moreso than Tiger's abilities.

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On 8/14/2012 at 5:58 PM, tommyboy said:
On 8/14/2012 at 4:23 PM, 'mr roboto said:

Anyone who has never broken par for 9 holes (no mulligans) cannot post in this thread any more.

did that last weekend.anyhow to continue the discussion. The guys that want to bang on Tiger are pretty much one or more of the following types a) sucked at all sports their entire life and have no idea what being good at something feels like b) lifelong fans of the Cleveland Cavaliers c) repeat blanket party receivers between the ages of 10 and 27 d) live at home with parents and use stolen cable from neighbors yard to log onto FBG every day e) played golf one time at buddy Karls bachelor party f) dreamed of winning the Masters from age 4 through 13, got cut from freshman golf team, quit the game g) IP banned from 4chan, yahoo discussion boards, :e, curlyboard and bettycrocker.com

 

 

one of my better quotes from this thread if

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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:
17 hours ago, belljr said:

In their Primes Jack's competition was harder on a whole compared to Tiger's prime.

Today's era is tougher than both of those because of Tiger, imo

There's just no way this can be true. The talent pool has undergone a massive expansion over the last couple decades. Just comparing the flags on the leaderboard at majors makes it pretty clear, whether you use the 2000s or now.  At the start of Jack's career Euros and Aussies didn't even make the trip to compete in the US in majors sometimes. For example in writing this post I read about a Nicklaus semi-contemporary whose name I barely even recognize, Peter Thomsen, who is apparently considered the greatest Aussie golfer of all time.  During the 1960s the dude finished in the top ten at the British Open eight times, including a win. He only played in other majors three times during that entire decade. In his career he won the British Open as many times as he played in the US Open (5).

Now people from those countries blanket the leaderboard of events like the Valspar Championship. Plus there's an entire continent of golfers that basically didn't exist in Jack's era.  And the game is much more popular in America too, thanks to both of them.

Basically, Nicklaus beat a bunch of Americans who grew up in country clubs along with the occasional random from another English-speaking country. Tiger is beating the planet.

:goodposting:

Also, people forget that the PGA tour was practically an afterthought for most professional golfers in the '60s. You couldn't make a decent living on tour unless you were one of the top 10 players in the world. So, many of the best pros would just get a job as a head pro for a wealthy country club, and they rarely played in a PGA event.

Jack competed against the same 10-15 guys every week, plus a smattering of local ham-and-eggers. His record wouldn't be nearly the same if he had to compete against the top-156 every single week.

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