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President Obama Addresses Muslim World in Cairo


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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

But you do understand where you say the words has zero impact on the policy, right?

I think you're confusing a speech with policy.

J

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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Proximity doesn't play any role when trying to build and/or repair a relationship (political or otherwise)?
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Rhetoric won't win the hearts and minds of the Arab street. What actions are we going to see here?

Why won't it? Are arabs incapable of diplomatic influence?
The kind every American President since Carter has tried? Yes, they are largely incapable of being influenced by empty rhetoric.
Obama doesn't look or sound like Carter
That is very perceptive of you. What gave it away? The lack of a southern accent? FYI, he doesn't look or sound like Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Bush II either. But if all he has is empty rhetoric, then he will achieve nothing. We can assume he will not throw Israel under the bus. We already send aid to many Arab countries. Prior to 9/11 we never occupied Arab land (we had a peacekeeping force in Lebanon but that was not an occupation, nor are military bases in Saudi Arabia and Egypt). Pretty much they hate us because we support Israel. That isn't changing.
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

Again, I will ask-- what POLICY initiatives did Obama unveil in this speech? HOW will he change things? Send a Hallmark card?

Tomorrow when the average citizen in the ME sees we are still in Iraq, are increasing forces in Afghanistan, and are still supporting Israel.. well, they will see Obama's speech for what is was.. A SPEECH..

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Obama doesn't look or sound like Carter...which may seem shallow, but it makes a huge difference to this region of the world....remember the context...they've been at war with Judeo Christians/Whites for thousands of years...white = bad

Seriously? You think his ability here is influenced by the color of his skin?J
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:lmao: What does that have to do with anything?

J

Obama doesn't look or sound like Carter...which may seem shallow, but it makes a huge difference to this region of the world....remember the context...they've been at war with Judeo Christians/Whites for thousands of years...white = bad

This is why Obama has such a tremendous opportunity to change the world for the better.

Even for you, this is beyond ridiculous.. :popcorn:

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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Proximity doesn't play any role when trying to build and/or repair a relationship (political or otherwise)?
Not in setting the policy.

Of course it has an effect when building a relationship.

You guys are having two different conversations. President Bush fans said "lets see action, these are not new words". President Obama supporters seemed offended by that as if that diminished the speech somehow and asked for the speeches from Bush. I searched 3 seconds on google and instantly was given a speech by President Bush that said things that sounded very similar.

Things that I bet they didn't have a problem with Bush saying but if Obama had said (especially the "different lamp same light") they would have been up in arms over.

J

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Several of the replies in this thread make me sad :(

You know what makes me sad? That people think that the POTUS should be on a Muslim goodwill tour.

Leaders of Muslim nations should be coming to us. Let me say that again.

Leaders of Muslim nations should be coming to us!!!

They should be coming to us and explaining what they are doing and what they will be doing to get a hold on radical Muslims in their country.

It is amazing and sad that so many Americans just cant grasp this.
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

But you do understand where you say the words has zero impact on the policy, right?

I think you're confusing a speech with policy.

J

It was a political speech, but political speeches can change perceptions - and that's exactly what this was about. Where that speech was given was also a huge part of it's impact. If you think proximity doesn't matter for a political speech, why do politicians spend so much time, money, energy, etc. in traveling to different areas they are trying to draw votes from? Do you think they're are simply wasting their time or do you believe that their physical presence actually makes a difference in their ability to influence voters perceptions?
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J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

But you do understand where you say the words has zero impact on the policy, right?

I think you're confusing a speech with policy.

J

It was a political speech, but political speeches can change perceptions - and that's exactly what this was about. Where that speech was given was also a huge part of it's impact. If you think proximity doesn't matter for a political speech, why do politicians spend so much time, money, energy, etc. in traveling to different areas they are trying to draw votes from? Do you think they're are simply wasting their time or do you believe that their physical presence actually makes a difference in their ability to influence voters perceptions?

That's great.. the speech will change their perception until they realize that NOTHIG HAS OR WILL CHANGE in regards to Israel.. Obama could do a ME tour but if policies remain the same, it won't matter..

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Several of the replies in this thread make me sad :(

You know what makes me sad? That people think that the POTUS should be on a Muslim goodwill tour.

Leaders of Muslim nations should be coming to us. Let me say that again.

Leaders of Muslim nations should be coming to us!!!

They should be coming to us and explaining what they are doing and what they will be doing to get a hold on radical Muslims in their country.

It is amazing and sad that so many Americans just cant grasp this.
Or think that we have something to apologize for. We have been trying to find a path to peace in the Middle East since before I was born. All it gets us is hated.
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Does that strike you as odd that not everyone wants to be pals with the freaks in the ME?? Is it really that hard to understand. :(

Gross simplifications and generalizations are a specialty of yours. You don't seem to understand that there are millions and millions of muslims that wish no harm on us.
And milions and millions of muslims that do.
Please elaborate on exactly what you mean there. Who are these millions and millions?J
The people in the ME are conditioned to hate us from birth. This is what they are taught due to our "infidel" ideology. Fundamentalist regimes support (Iran, Saudi and Sudan) jihadism and lets not forget the backing from the secular regimes (Syria, Iraq and Libya) as well. Religious leaders are on T.V weekly legitimizing terrorism and promoting Jihad to the masses across the Arab world. None of this is even debatable, I'm not sure how you can possibly dispute the millions and millions number.
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Proximity doesn't play any role when trying to build and/or repair a relationship (political or otherwise)?
Not in setting the policy.

Of course it has an effect when building a relationship.

You guys are having two different conversations. President Bush fans said "lets see action, these are not new words". President Obama supporters seemed offended by that as if that diminished the speech somehow and asked for the speeches from Bush. I searched 3 seconds on google and instantly was given a speech by President Bush that said things that sounded very similar.

Things that I bet they didn't have a problem with Bush saying but if Obama had said (especially the "different lamp same light") they would have been up in arms over.

J

You are painting with too broad a brush - I don't think anyone is suggesting Obama is promoting a radical change in policy (at least I'm not), what I am saying is that context is very important when it comes to communication and this context mattered. Sorry if I misunderstood your point.
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It was a political speech, but political speeches can change perceptions - and that's exactly what this was about. Where that speech was given was also a huge part of it's impact. If you think proximity doesn't matter for a political speech, why do politicians spend so much time, money, energy, etc. in traveling to different areas they are trying to draw votes from? Do you think they're are simply wasting their time or do you believe that their physical presence actually makes a difference in their ability to influence voters perceptions?

Of course it (proximity) has an effect when building a relationship.

No disagreement there. And it better have a significant payout. The expense / effort to take that many people to Egypt with as much as is going on at home had better pay dividends in line with the cost or else it was a very foolish trip.J
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Does that strike you as odd that not everyone wants to be pals with the freaks in the ME?? Is it really that hard to understand. :(

Gross simplifications and generalizations are a specialty of yours. You don't seem to understand that there are millions and millions of muslims that wish no harm on us.
And milions and millions of muslims that do.
Please elaborate on exactly what you mean there. Who are these millions and millions?J
Pretty sure he means millions and millions of muslims that do wish us harm
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Sorry for my denseness but what you say here is completely wrong. As a businessman, you should know how to do business better than most. If you want to sell a boat and keep a customer, you do not promise everything over the phone and let the customer on their merry way. You want to do business face to face, mano y mano, hand shake to hand shake. Walking into Cairo is a huge step. How many Americans were in that stadium? The Secret Service maybe and that was probably it. Muslims value the old ways of doing business and Obama talking with them in Egypt is tons, loads, more respectful than talking with them from the Oval Office.
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I don't see how any American citizen can say anything bad about the speech Obama gave. Hopefully it opens doors around the world instead of slamming them shut like in our recent past. Again, I do not see how anyone can say anything bad about the words and ideals Obama appears to be presenting.

:sleep:
:X
And, could you two give reasons as to why you do not favor the direction Obama is handling this situation, or are you going to hide behind the one-click-emoticon-replies?
:(:thumbup: I see you two continue to offer problems and not solutions.
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I don't see how any American citizen can say anything bad about the speech Obama gave. Hopefully it opens doors around the world instead of slamming them shut like in our recent past. Again, I do not see how anyone can say anything bad about the words and ideals Obama appears to be presenting.

:sleep:
:X
And, could you two give reasons as to why you do not favor the direction Obama is handling this situation, or are you going to hide behind the one-click-emoticon-replies?
:(:thumbup: I see you two continue to offer problems and not solutions.
You really dont want to hear my solution to this.
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Sorry for my denseness but what you say here is completely wrong. As a businessman, you should know how to do business better than most. If you want to sell a boat and keep a customer, you do not promise everything over the phone and let the customer on their merry way. You want to do business face to face, mano y mano, hand shake to hand shake. Walking into Cairo is a huge step. How many Americans were in that stadium? The Secret Service maybe and that was probably it. Muslims value the old ways of doing business and Obama talking with them in Egypt is tons, loads, more respectful than talking with them from the Oval Office.
No argument there that proximity is valuable.

We had this same discussion last year when I argued that my candidate Obama needed to visit the troops in Iraq. Many Obama supporters argued it wasn't a problem that he'd never been there. I said it was. For the same reasons we're saying here.

From a policy standpoint it's not valuable. Policy is created wherever. We'll see if that changes.

J

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It was a political speech, but political speeches can change perceptions - and that's exactly what this was about. Where that speech was given was also a huge part of it's impact. If you think proximity doesn't matter for a political speech, why do politicians spend so much time, money, energy, etc. in traveling to different areas they are trying to draw votes from? Do you think they're are simply wasting their time or do you believe that their physical presence actually makes a difference in their ability to influence voters perceptions?

Of course it (proximity) has an effect when building a relationship.

No disagreement there. And it better have a significant payout. The expense / effort to take that many people to Egypt with as much as is going on at home had better pay dividends in line with the cost or else it was a very foolish trip.J
All presidents make trips.... and ive never heard anyone :cry: about expense of the potus in a diplomatic effort before. especially in area where we are currently waging two wars.
:kicksrock: Who is crying?J
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You really dont want to hear my solution to this.

I think we all would because there is no one definitive decision. However, if you have one, lets hear it. I have my reservations that your solution would be a win/win in the long run, but, lets hear it and confront the good/bad of it.
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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

Again, I will ask-- what POLICY initiatives did Obama unveil in this speech? HOW will he change things? Send a Hallmark card?

Tomorrow when the average citizen in the ME sees we are still in Iraq, are increasing forces in Afghanistan, and are still supporting Israel.. well, they will see Obama's speech for what is was.. A SPEECH..

:kicksrock:
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So in summary, there was no change in policy. Even the rhetoric did not change to any degree. Only the venue changed. At least we can be thabnkful that nobody went Anwar Sadat on him.

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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Proximity doesn't play any role when trying to build and/or repair a relationship (political or otherwise)?
Not in setting the policy.

Of course it has an effect when building a relationship.

You guys are having two different conversations. President Bush fans said "lets see action, these are not new words". President Obama supporters seemed offended by that as if that diminished the speech somehow and asked for the speeches from Bush. I searched 3 seconds on google and instantly was given a speech by President Bush that said things that sounded very similar.

Things that I bet they didn't have a problem with Bush saying but if Obama had said (especially the "different lamp same light") they would have been up in arms over.

J

Again, the two speeches you're talking about here aren't even in the same universe. "sounded very similar" Seriously?

Sorry Joe, but you're way off here. Boggles the mind that this speech is being widely applauded across the globe as potentially a groundbreaking moment and you're questioning whether it was even worth the flight to Cairo to give it. Unreal.

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Bushs speech was to Americans, with Americans.

Obamas speach was to the middle easterners, with middle easterners.

Who are they tring to reach and influence?

From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

Proximity doesn't play any role when trying to build and/or repair a relationship (political or otherwise)?
Not in setting the policy.

Of course it has an effect when building a relationship.

You guys are having two different conversations. President Bush fans said "lets see action, these are not new words". President Obama supporters seemed offended by that as if that diminished the speech somehow and asked for the speeches from Bush. I searched 3 seconds on google and instantly was given a speech by President Bush that said things that sounded very similar.

Things that I bet they didn't have a problem with Bush saying but if Obama had said (especially the "different lamp same light") they would have been up in arms over.

J

Again, the two speeches you're talking about here aren't even in the same universe. "sounded very similar" Seriously?

Sorry Joe, but you're way off here. Boggles the mind that this speech is being widely applauded across the globe as potentially a groundbreaking moment and you're questioning whether it was even worth the flight to Cairo to give it. Unreal.

did you read the transcripts of the Bush speech? It was VERY similar..

Take the blinders off for once and think.. Obama could give the morning prayer in Mecca, but unless we pull out of the ME and dissolve Israel, NOTHING WILL CHANGE

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I don't see how any American citizen can say anything bad about the speech Obama gave. Hopefully it opens doors around the world instead of slamming them shut like in our recent past. Again, I do not see how anyone can say anything bad about the words and ideals Obama appears to be presenting.

:sleep:
:thumbup:
And, could you two give reasons as to why you do not favor the direction Obama is handling this situation, or are you going to hide behind the one-click-emoticon-replies?
:popcorn: :popcorn: I see you two continue to offer problems and not solutions.
What are you popcorning about? What problems are we causing? I posted what I posted because I don't agree with Obama being on some sort of a Muslim goodwill tour. The leaders of Muslim countries need to get a hold of the radical Muslims and take care of their own. These leaders should be on a goodwill tour to America explaining what they are doing to stop the radical Muslims and apologizing to us.
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From the onset its a massive difference. An easy to follow example.

So unless you're actually wherever the group you're talking about is, what you say doesn't matter? I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash.

J

No. I didnt say that.

But we are discussing why it is different. Why it will have significantly more impact.

>>>Look at the Ghetto example again.<<< It true. Flatly so.

You want me to buy a FBG subscription... you show up at my house, I'd likely buy.

Otherwise, I may-or may-not even notice. And may not care about what you are pushing from Tennessee.

You do grasp this dont you J?

Again, I will ask-- what POLICY initiatives did Obama unveil in this speech? HOW will he change things? Send a Hallmark card?

Tomorrow when the average citizen in the ME sees we are still in Iraq, are increasing forces in Afghanistan, and are still supporting Israel.. well, they will see Obama's speech for what is was.. A SPEECH..

:popcorn:

Unveil? i dont know. but he spoke on a ton of policy.

Iraq and several different point regarding it. incl no permanent base

Hamas being recognized as democratically elected and needing to be responsible for its people

Iran being able to have nuclear power for non-military reason as acceptable, but must show its capable/responsible.

Israel must be stop the settelements for the west bank and the palenstinians deserving of its own place.

America taking responsibilties for its actions (assasination in Iran, Iraq war of choice) directly to that regions people. led by example, he did.

...to name a few.

cool.. let us know when these policies take effect, and the ME countries are our buddies!

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I think he outlined some new policy that is new and difficult to see. I don't think the Muslim world knew the motivations Americans have in being over there. Obama spelled some of that out by letting the Muslim's know that we are there out of necessity and not for occupation as many Muslim's believe.

The seven points Obama outlined was, more than likely, something new to hear in the Muslim world. Obama admitted the West has not been nice, which it has not been, towards Muslims but he also mentioned that the Muslim world has not been the nicest either. In short, "The buck stops here". His words, with some harsh realities in them, is asking for both sides to swallow their pills and move forward... together with common interests in mind.

The seven points are not being emphasized enough and those asked for both sides to look at themselves, clean up their own mess first, and then meet to see where the respective parties are. Muslims need to do this with confidence that no one is going to take advantage of them, which many parts of the world has done, while they, hopefully, try to clean up their mess. On the other hand, Americans and the West also have to look at themselves/ourselves and clean up our own stuff. The policy change is just that... the status quo is not working but if one side does not step up... the status quo is what will continue.

The new policy is there. Is the Muslim world ready to play ball? Is America ready to play ball? Is the West ready to play ball? Let's go.

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Boggles the mind that this speech is being widely applauded across the globe as potentially a groundbreaking moment and you're questioning whether it was even worth the flight to Cairo to give it. Unreal.

What in the world are you talking about? Where have I said that?If you mean "The expense / effort to take that many people to Egypt with as much as is going on at home had better pay dividends in line with the cost or else it was a very foolish trip." yes, I think every trip had better have positives to outweigh the cost. That's all trips. Because it's our money they're using. Whether that's a vacation to a ranch in Texas or a trip to visit the troops in Iraq. Every trip much justify the costs. Do you disagree?J
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I think he outlined some new policy that is new and difficult to see. I don't think the Muslim world knew the motivations Americans have in being over there. Obama spelled some of that out by letting the Muslim's know that we are there out of necessity and not for occupation as many Muslim's believe. The seven points Obama outlined was, more than likely, something new to hear in the Muslim world. Obama admitted the West has not been nice, which it has not been, towards Muslims but he also mentioned that the Muslim world has not been the nicest either. In short, "The buck stops here". His words, with some harsh realities in them, is asking for both sides to swallow their pills and move forward... together with common interests in mind.The seven points are not being emphasized enough and those asked for both sides to look at themselves, clean up their own mess first, and then meet to see where the respective parties are. Muslims need to do this with confidence that no one is going to take advantage of them, which many parts of the world has done, while they, hopefully, try to clean up their mess. On the other hand, Americans and the West also have to look at themselves/ourselves and clean up our own stuff. The policy change is just that... the status quo is not working but if one side does not step up... the status quo is what will continue. The new policy is there. Is the Muslim world ready to play ball? Is America ready to play ball? Is the West ready to play ball? Let's go.

What stuff do Americans need to clean up? :popcorn:
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cool.. let us know when these policies take effect, and the ME countries are our buddies!

You were expecting them to be concurrent with his first speech on the middle east? Your grasp on diplomacy in its regards to policy is just... :popcorn:
you guys are talking like this speech will change the world.. I'm being just as ridiculous..I was a SPEECH!!! Talk to me in a year.. I'll bet we are still in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan (by then), and will still have close ties to Israel.. What wil this speech mean to Arabs and the ME then?
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What are you popcorning about? What problems are we causing? I posted what I posted because I don't agree with Obama being on some sort of a Muslim goodwill tour. The leaders of Muslim countries need to get a hold of the radical Muslims and take care of their own. These leaders should be on a goodwill tour to America explaining what they are doing to stop the radical Muslims and apologizing to us.

Your way of thinking and your sense of entitlement is one reason why we are in this mess to begin with. You want the Muslim governments to contain their people... America can not even contain its criminals... how do you expect another country to do so? We contain some, like other countries do, but not all of them. You and others keep thinking the Muslim world should be thankful and coming to us... for what? The governments were not involved in any of this. The extremists are the ones that have caused this. If the governments can work together... maybe we take two steps forward instead of one step back.
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Saying a trip should have positives in line with it's cost is chokes definition of crying? J

No, you were boohoo'n before we even go anywhere besides a speech.
Cut and paste here the exact quote you define as crying please.J
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Boggles the mind that this speech is being widely applauded across the globe as potentially a groundbreaking moment and you're questioning whether it was even worth the flight to Cairo to give it. Unreal.

What in the world are you talking about? Where have I said that?J

The expense / effort to take that many people to Egypt with as much as is going on at home had better pay dividends in line with the cost or else it was a very foolish trip.

Maybe you didnt type what you meant to type.
I meant to type exactly that. Of course a trip has to have positives to justify the costs. Do you disagree?J
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I think he outlined some new policy that is new and difficult to see. I don't think the Muslim world knew the motivations Americans have in being over there. Obama spelled some of that out by letting the Muslim's know that we are there out of necessity and not for occupation as many Muslim's believe. The seven points Obama outlined was, more than likely, something new to hear in the Muslim world. Obama admitted the West has not been nice, which it has not been, towards Muslims but he also mentioned that the Muslim world has not been the nicest either. In short, "The buck stops here". His words, with some harsh realities in them, is asking for both sides to swallow their pills and move forward... together with common interests in mind.The seven points are not being emphasized enough and those asked for both sides to look at themselves, clean up their own mess first, and then meet to see where the respective parties are. Muslims need to do this with confidence that no one is going to take advantage of them, which many parts of the world has done, while they, hopefully, try to clean up their mess. On the other hand, Americans and the West also have to look at themselves/ourselves and clean up our own stuff. The policy change is just that... the status quo is not working but if one side does not step up... the status quo is what will continue. The new policy is there. Is the Muslim world ready to play ball? Is America ready to play ball? Is the West ready to play ball? Let's go.

Will Saudi Arabia shut down the radical muslim schools? No.Will Pakistan? No.Will Hezbollah recognize Israel's right to exist? No.Will land for peace work? It hasn't in the past.Will UBL suddenly go away? No.Is American going to start praying toward Mecca anytime soon? No.Are we going to stop supporting Israel? No.Are we going to ignore UBL and let his AQ cronies live in peace? No.What about the Somali pirates? No.Are we going to stop supporting Jordan and Saudi Arabia? No.Will reducing our dependence on Arab oil have any affect? No.
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What stuff do Americans need to clean up?

So, America is guilt free in what the world is like right now? Before we move forward as a partner with the Muslim world, we need to clean up our act at home and work towards a common goal instead of having this, that, this, that going on at the same time.What does America need to clean up? How about our own "iron fist" ruling over others. We want what is best for us 100% all of the time without much consideration to others (i.e. Muslims). If America gets 90% of what it wants instead of 100% of what it wants... is that not good enough? There are many things America and Americans can do to better us and the world. To say America is guilt free is idiotic.
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What stuff do Americans need to clean up?

So, America is guilt free in what the world is like right now? Before we move forward as a partner with the Muslim world, we need to clean up our act at home and work towards a common goal instead of having this, that, this, that going on at the same time.What does America need to clean up? How about our own "iron fist" ruling over others. We want what is best for us 100% all of the time without much consideration to others (i.e. Muslims). If America gets 90% of what it wants instead of 100% of what it wants... is that not good enough? There are many things America and Americans can do to better us and the world. To say America is guilt free is idiotic.
Iron fist? Now that is idiotic.
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No.You plan and work towards the best. You make a determination you then move accordingly.Noone can predict all the outcomes or the future. You dont BOOHOO about finances (on a subject this important no less) if things dont work out or stay the same.Our presidents make plenty of world-wide visits with NOTHING looking for justification. This one actually has some potential positives for us.ftr: this trip will never look foolish from an effort/money stance. and it just hit me -- you were crying an awful lot like Rush.

Again, please cut and paste the exact quote you're calling crying.J
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What stuff do Americans need to clean up?

So, America is guilt free in what the world is like right now? Before we move forward as a partner with the Muslim world, we need to clean up our act at home and work towards a common goal instead of having this, that, this, that going on at the same time.What does America need to clean up? How about our own "iron fist" ruling over others. We want what is best for us 100% all of the time without much consideration to others (i.e. Muslims). If America gets 90% of what it wants instead of 100% of what it wants... is that not good enough? There are many things America and Americans can do to better us and the world. To say America is guilt free is idiotic.
Iron fist? Now that is idiotic.
Both of you drop the "idiotic" calling.J
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Oh please. Bush gave quite a few speeches where he said essentially the same things. Anyone that thinks that just because Obama said it will make a difference to would be terrorists is delusional.

Can you post a video/youtube or two of a Bush Speech in Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia?
:popcorn:
It seriously amazed me how obnoxious you are. I apologize for having a life and not being able to post for a few hours.

As I'm posting from my Touch and don't yet have cut and paste ability, I'll tell you to Google "World Economic Forum Bush's speech 2008" and read the speech. Bush spends more time encouraging the Middle East to open up to democracy and free trade, but it's a very positive speech and very much stresses a two state Israel/Palestine solution that requires hard concessions from both sides.

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What stuff do Americans need to clean up?

So, America is guilt free in what the world is like right now? Before we move forward as a partner with the Muslim world, we need to clean up our act at home and work towards a common goal instead of having this, that, this, that going on at the same time.What does America need to clean up? How about our own "iron fist" ruling over others. We want what is best for us 100% all of the time without much consideration to others (i.e. Muslims). If America gets 90% of what it wants instead of 100% of what it wants... is that not good enough? There are many things America and Americans can do to better us and the world. To say America is guilt free is idiotic.
Iron fist? Now that is idiotic.
Do as I say, or else. None of that going on in the past, huh?
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What stuff do Americans need to clean up?

So, America is guilt free in what the world is like right now? Before we move forward as a partner with the Muslim world, we need to clean up our act at home and work towards a common goal instead of having this, that, this, that going on at the same time.What does America need to clean up? How about our own "iron fist" ruling over others. We want what is best for us 100% all of the time without much consideration to others (i.e. Muslims). If America gets 90% of what it wants instead of 100% of what it wants... is that not good enough? There are many things America and Americans can do to better us and the world. To say America is guilt free is idiotic.
Wow, just wow
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What are you popcorning about? What problems are we causing? I posted what I posted because I don't agree with Obama being on some sort of a Muslim goodwill tour. The leaders of Muslim countries need to get a hold of the radical Muslims and take care of their own. These leaders should be on a goodwill tour to America explaining what they are doing to stop the radical Muslims and apologizing to us.

Your way of thinking and your sense of entitlement is one reason why we are in this mess to begin with. You want the Muslim governments to contain their people... America can not even contain its criminals... how do you expect another country to do so? We contain some, like other countries do, but not all of them. You and others keep thinking the Muslim world should be thankful and coming to us... for what? The governments were not involved in any of this. The extremists are the ones that have caused this. If the governments can work together... maybe we take two steps forward instead of one step back.
Our criminals are not on a Jihad killing thousands of people in other countries. You are naive if you think the govts of Muslim nations are doing their best to get a strangle hold on the radicals.
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Our criminals are not on a Jihad killing thousands of people in other countries. You are naive if you think the govts of Muslim nations are doing their best to get a strangle hold on the radicals.

Never said the governments were doing their best but to think those governments yield the power that our government does over its criminals is not an accurate belief... if that is the belief. Those governments were not elected by the people and the respect for those governments is lacking... to say the least. Part of the policy that will hopefully take hold is that the people in the Muslim world get more say, power, to govern themselves. Obama mentioned this in his seven ideas that need to be worked at... each of those seven have parts that America and the Muslim world need to work on before coming together in a partnership. I will look for those and post them. Those seven are pretty telling... harsh truths as well.
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