Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Housing While Black


Recommended Posts

OBAMA SPEAKS

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Wow. Halfway thought that the police would tuck their nads and apologize to the world.

Feels kind of gratifying to have someone finally publicly stand up to Obama's ignorance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OBAMA SPEAKS

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.

Share

President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement, because I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.

In an exclusive interview with ABC's Terry Moran to air on "Nightline" tonight, Obama said it doesn't make sense to him that the situation escalated to the point that Gates was arrested.

"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."

The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

Watch "Nightline" Tonight at 11:35 p.m. ET for Terry Moran's full interview with President Obama

Sgt. James Crowley, who arrested Gates for disorderly conduct, and his union slammed the president today for his comments about the incident at Gates' house last week.

Obama "was dead wrong to malign this police officer specifically and the department in general," Alan McDonald, the lawyer for the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, told ABC News today.

Obama Speaks

Healthcare? Dont' arrest him because of healthcare? What does that even mean?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The officer asked him to step outside because at that time he was responding to a call of a break-in in process without backup and didn't know if he was dealing with a burglar, or perhaps a situation where there may have been burglars in the house. The officer obviously was trying to be safe. After Gates refused to step outside, the officer asked him if there were other people in the house. Gates did not answer.

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll try this once again since I was asked.

The police are responding to an unsubstantiated report of a break in by two, count them two black males. They arrive on scene and see a front door that has, even according to the Professor been forced and the lock broken such tha tthe professor is calling for a repair. The Cop, still alone now has substantiation of the initial report. maybe he does have burglers, you know, criminals with maybe burgler tools like pry bars, screw drivers, scree and glass cutters, or weapons, the tools of the trade so to speak. The cop looks in and sees a man with a story. The cop wants to identify the man. For officer safety he wants the man to step outside where if he is a burgler he will be undable to maybe grab a gun, knife, or pry bar he had secreted around the home as the officer approached. This is within the officer's training and within the law to issue this lawful order. Remember too that there is another man loose that the oficer is concerned with. The house may be a trap where he can get killed.

The Professor gives him lip. He gets loud, belligerent, and is uncooperative. He failed to obey a lawful order. This is a crime in many jurisdictions, though I do not know about Mass. He is loud, offensive, disruptive and is delaying identifying persons and even locating the second person, a very dangerous act.

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

Now, was this necessary. I do not think so. The officer has discretion and not every misdemeanor has to be charged. Even had it been charged would I have wanted the officer to take the gentleman into custody, no. Again there the officer has discretion. There is an expression we sometimes use. It is contempt of cop. A few officers choose, when they sense contempt of cop, to not exercise their discretion to reflect the best traditions of their departments which are, of course, to protect and to serve. As a prosecutor I never liked these officers as they make everyone's job more difficult. Yes the Professor got heated and was a jackass, and technically he committed a crime, but it was not much of a crime. Good policing here, good explanations, restraint of emotions could have resolved the matter without charges or ugliness.

The Professor had a world view and an agenda. He was also an old man and a tired traveler dealing with a frustrating situation. Sometimes you have to let folks blow of a little steam. The officer could have stepped back for his safety, kept eyes on, waited for backup, let the ,man blow a little, and then have reengaged.

I would grade the officers efforts here a B up until the arrest and because of that a C. This was not A level work by any means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

GTFO
He mouf kissed a black dude. That equals a get out of racism free card for life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be careful heading home tonight folks - the Dow is over 9K for the first time in a while, so Obama has given the green light for cops to ticket those who don't do a full three-Mississippi count at stop signs.

:excited:I seriously think that Obama may be the most egocentric President that we've ever had. It's like every single thing that ever happens in the world somehow revolves around him and his worldview. To be President of the United States, you have to have a pretty good sized ego, but it constantly amazes me how far our current President takes it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll try this once again since I was asked.The police are responding to an unsubstantiated report of a break in by two, count them two black males. They arrive on scene and see a front door that has, even according to the Professor been forced and the lock broken such tha tthe professor is calling for a repair. The Cop, still alone now has substantiation of the initial report. maybe he does have burglers, you know, criminals with maybe burgler tools like pry bars, screw drivers, scree and glass cutters, or weapons, the tools of the trade so to speak. The cop looks in and sees a man with a story. The cop wants to identify the man. For officer safety he wants the man to step outside where if he is a burgler he will be undable to maybe grab a gun, knife, or pry bar he had secreted around the home as the officer approached. This is within the officer's training and within the law to issue this lawful order. Remember too that there is another man loose that the oficer is concerned with. The house may be a trap where he can get killed. The Professor gives him lip. He gets loud, belligerent, and is uncooperative. He failed to obey a lawful order. This is a crime in many jurisdictions, though I do not know about Mass. He is loud, offensive, disruptive and is delaying identifying persons and even locating the second person, a very dangerous act.If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.Now, was this necessary. I do not think so. The officer has discretion and not every misdemeanor has to be charged. Even had it been charged would I have wanted the officer to take the gentleman into custody, no. Again there the officer has discretion. There is an expression we sometimes use. It is contempt of cop. A few officers choose, when they sense contempt of cop, to not exercise their discretion to reflect the best traditions of their departments which are, of course, to protect and to serve. As a prosecutor I never liked these officers as they make everyone's job more difficult. Yes the Professor got heated and was a jackass, and technically he committed a crime, but it was not much of a crime. Good policing here, good explanations, restraint of emotions could have resolved the matter without charges or ugliness. The Professor had a world view and an agenda. He was also an old man and a tired traveler dealing with a frustrating situation. Sometimes you have to let folks blow of a little steam. The officer could have stepped back for his safety, kept eyes on, waited for backup, let the ,man blow a little, and then have reengaged. I would grade the officers efforts here a B up until the arrest and because of that a C. This was not A level work by any means.

The professor produced identification with the proper address on it somewhere in there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

GTFO
He mouf kissed a black dude. That equals a get out of racism free card for life.
:excited::shock:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll try this once again since I was asked.The police are responding to an unsubstantiated report of a break in by two, count them two black males. They arrive on scene and see a front door that has, even according to the Professor been forced and the lock broken such tha tthe professor is calling for a repair. The Cop, still alone now has substantiation of the initial report. maybe he does have burglers, you know, criminals with maybe burgler tools like pry bars, screw drivers, scree and glass cutters, or weapons, the tools of the trade so to speak. The cop looks in and sees a man with a story. The cop wants to identify the man. For officer safety he wants the man to step outside where if he is a burgler he will be undable to maybe grab a gun, knife, or pry bar he had secreted around the home as the officer approached. This is within the officer's training and within the law to issue this lawful order. Remember too that there is another man loose that the oficer is concerned with. The house may be a trap where he can get killed. The Professor gives him lip. He gets loud, belligerent, and is uncooperative. He failed to obey a lawful order. This is a crime in many jurisdictions, though I do not know about Mass. He is loud, offensive, disruptive and is delaying identifying persons and even locating the second person, a very dangerous act.If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.Now, was this necessary. I do not think so. The officer has discretion and not every misdemeanor has to be charged. Even had it been charged would I have wanted the officer to take the gentleman into custody, no. Again there the officer has discretion. There is an expression we sometimes use. It is contempt of cop. A few officers choose, when they sense contempt of cop, to not exercise their discretion to reflect the best traditions of their departments which are, of course, to protect and to serve. As a prosecutor I never liked these officers as they make everyone's job more difficult. Yes the Professor got heated and was a jackass, and technically he committed a crime, but it was not much of a crime. Good policing here, good explanations, restraint of emotions could have resolved the matter without charges or ugliness. The Professor had a world view and an agenda. He was also an old man and a tired traveler dealing with a frustrating situation. Sometimes you have to let folks blow of a little steam. The officer could have stepped back for his safety, kept eyes on, waited for backup, let the ,man blow a little, and then have reengaged. I would grade the officers efforts here a B up until the arrest and because of that a C. This was not A level work by any means.

The professor produced identification with the proper address on it somewhere in there.
yes he did, but during the delay and the pissing match the officer was potentially facing two burglers, maybe armed, with one out of site. I agree that once ownership has been clearly established the matter changes, but by then the proffesor has already failed to obey a lawful order.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?
Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris Matthews just took a shot at Obama..said that Presidents have no business speaking out on police matters regardless the case, and Obama made a mistake speaking out on this one.

Matthews went on to say tha Richard Nixon was chastized when he commented on the Charles Manso case..and that was a multible murder case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris Matthews just took a shot at Obama..said that Presidents have no business speaking out on police matters regardless the case, and Obama made a mistake speaking out on this one.Matthews went on to say tha Richard Nixon was chastized when he commented on the Charles Manso case..and that was a multible murder case.

You know Obama screwed up when his biggest cheerleader takes him to task
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?
Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.
In Massachusetts, "A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: ... engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or . . . creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor." Commonwealth vs. Zettel, 46 Mass. App. Ct. 471 (1999). (And there is an exception for protected political speech.)

Also, it doesn't sound like Gates disobeyed a lawful order.

He was at first asked to come out onto the porch, and he refused. But that was before he was told that the police were investigating a crime.

Then he was asked to provide ID, and he did. (The police report says he "initially refused . . . but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card." It doesn't say how long the delay was.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
Um no. A possible crime was reported and he was investigating. There is no evidence that he made ANY assumptions with regard to the fine professor.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/...gates-comments/

CNN) — White Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Thursday that President Obama does not regret saying Cambridge, Massachusetts police "acted stupidly" in arresting Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Asked aboard Air Force One whether the president regrets the choice of words, Gibbs told reporters that Obama, who made the remarks at Wednesday night's White House press conference, "was not calling the [arresting] officer stupid. The situation got out of hand."

The police aren't stupid, they just act stupid :goodposting:

Have you ever done anything stupid? If so, are you stupid?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
everyone does realize the reason he was having problems with his door was because of a previous robbery attempt, correct?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
He wasn't grungy-looking. Gates was in a blue blazer. His driver was in a suit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What does the bolded statement mean? You admit that blacks probably break the law more than whites, but we aren't allowed to say it because it won't win friends? Blacks, as a race, commit more crimes than whites, especially if you just look at crimes committed as a percentage of the population. I think most sane people chalk that up to the fact that in general, blacks are poorer than whites and have not had the same opportunities, and, in general, poor people without opportunities commit more crimes. Why can't we say that?

I have a hard time buying that the numbers below are all due to the prejudices of police officers. link

Homicide Offending Rates per 100,000 Population by Race

Year White Black Other

1976 4.9 46.6 4.6

1977 5.1 44.4 4.8

1978 5.3 44.6 3.7

1979 5.8 47.7 5.0

1980 6.4 51.5 6.9

1981 6.0 45.9 6.3

1982 5.6 41.2 6.4

1983 5.3 36.3 6.2

1984 5.3 33.1 5.3

1985 5.1 34.0 5.8

1986 5.3 37.9 6.0

1987 5.2 36.6 5.0

1988 4.9 41.2 4.5

1989 5.1 42.0 4.7

1990 5.6 46.6 4.2

1991 5.6 51.4 5.4

1992 5.2 47.0 5.7

1993 5.2 49.2 5.6

1994 5.1 45.4 5.1

1995 4.9 39.3 5.4

1996 4.5 35.9 4.8

1997 4.1 32.2 4.5

1998 4.2 27.8 3.9

1999 3.6 25.4 3.9

2000 3.5 25.6 3.3

2001 3.5 25.6 3.0

2002 3.6 25.0 2.9

2003 3.5 25.3 3.4

2004 3.6 24.1 2.7

2005 3.5 26.5 2.8

Edited by kutta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris Matthews just took a shot at Obama..said that Presidents have no business speaking out on police matters regardless the case, and Obama made a mistake speaking out on this one.

Matthews went on to say tha Richard Nixon was chastized when he commented on the Charles Manso case..and that was a multible murder case.

Has Hell Frozen Over

:goodposting:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?
Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.
So if a cop orders you to step outside of your own house to answer questions, it is unlawful if you don't comply? Is that a failure to comply with a Respect My Authority command?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What does the bolded statement mean? You admit that blacks probably break the law more than whites, but we aren't allowed to say it because it won't win friends?
Yeah, you can say it if you want, and it's true. Just like young Arab guys are going to be more likely to commit a terrorist attack.

That's why stuff like this happens. There is an argument that it is a good thing, but you aren't going to win many friends by saying that. That's what I said and meant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
He wasn't grungy-looking. Gates was in a blue blazer. His driver was in a suit.
Yep, you got me there. The picture I saw doesn't show a blazer, but he's wearing jeans and what I thought was grungy hair growth was just a goatee. My bad on that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
He wasn't grungy-looking. Gates was in a blue blazer. His driver was in a suit.
Does not look grungy in the booking photo -- he's wearing a polo style shirt.

ETA

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...3092gates1.html

Edited by pettifogger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
Tim you're way off here. Partially based on race? Well lets see....the call was about two black dudes breaking into a house. Dont let your own stereotypes about police and racial justice ruin your cred around here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the police's vesion of events is true, do you think the outcome would have been different if it was a white man?

I dont think the situation would have occured the way it did if it were a white man.
Yes it would. It just wouldn't be a national story.If a cop came to my house, and I acted the way it is reported that Gates acted, I would fully expect to be taken into custody. However, I don't have a chip on my shoulder and would have complied with every request the officer made and acted in a civil matter. It's not rocket science here and shouldn't be made it to be more than it was.
I'd appreciate it if you would stop making so much sense.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FYI, as a sidenote, this is the same officer who responced to the Reggie Lewis 911 call back in 1993. He attempted mouth-to-mouth in an unsuccessful effort to resuscitate him.

I don't see why this has come up so much as it has. I don't think rational people are really saying this cop hates black people. But he made an assumption that was at least partly based on race and a lot of people don't think that's right. The fact is that cops tend to do this kind of thing to blacks more often than whites (and if this guy were a white guy in grungy clothes and a week without a shower or shave a similar thing would have happened IMO.) I don't really see how that point can be argued. If you want to say that blacks have a higher percentage of law breakers, that would be fine and probably correct but I doubt you'll win many friends.

Is it really that hard for people to realize we (and the numbers show black cops do this also) have a different reaction to an unkempt black guy fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood or a young Arab sitting next to us on the airplane or even a white person who you would see at a county fair?

What assumption was that, Timmy?
Who the hell is timmy? And the assumption was that a grungy looking black guy shouldn't be fiddling with a door in a nice neighborhood.
Tim you're way off here. Partially based on race? Well lets see....the call was about two black dudes breaking into a house. Dont let your own stereotypes about police and racial justice ruin your cred around here.
My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?
Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.
So if a cop orders you to step outside of your own house to answer questions, it is unlawful if you don't comply? Is that a failure to comply with a Respect My Authority command?
If a police officer issues a lawful order and you do not comply creating a risk of a violent or disorderly situation arising, yes, you have committed a crime ain Colorado.

Just ordering a citizen out of their house willy nilly is not lawful. Stepping outside to provide identification in a b & E investigatrion is. Then one gets to the question of whether that refusal created a danger of a violent or disorderly response. Since the crime has an intent element it is best if the officer makes the circumstances clear or a prosecutor will have a problem proving up the latter element.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.

Well "Mr my name is Jacob whos daddy has been a cop for under 30 years", the fact is this was a middle/upper class person who happened to be black, do I disagree that people act differently about blacks, no, even jessy jackson said that if he was walking down the street, followed by black youths, he'd be afraid. Do you thing cops, even your daddy, are any different? So yes I agree with your pops, whats his name again?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE I. CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER

Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

This is the Massachusetts code section cited in the police report. I am having a hard time understanding why loudly complaining to the police in your own front yard qualifies for an arrest under this statute. Apparently the officer thought he had enough for probable cause under this statute. The Department subsequently decided, apparently, not to refer the matter for prosecution. Gates was not charged with obstructing an officer for failing to show his ID. He was charged with disturbing the peace based on discussions outside the house after his identity and right to occupy the house were verified. The police report does not indicate suspicion of other burglars still being in the home; it may be valid to speculate whether the officer considered that, but it is not a factor he gives in making the arrest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This article by a very prominent African American intellectual illustrates what I was referring to earlier:

What Do You Call a Black Man with a Ph.D.?

The Skip Gates arrest shows how little some features of the national racial landscape have changed over time.

By Lawrence Bobo

Ain't nothing post-racial about the United States of America.

I say this because my best friend, a well-known, middle-aged, affluent, black man, was arrested on his own front porch after showing his identification to a white police officer who was responding to a burglary call. Though the officer quickly determined that my friend was the rightful resident of the house and knew by then that there was no burglary in progress, he decided to place my friend in handcuffs, put him in the back of a police cruiser and have him fingerprinted and fully "processed," at our local police station.

This did not happen at night. It happened in the middle of the day. It did not happen to a previously unknown urban black male. It happened to internationally known, 58-year-old Henry Louis "Skip" Gates Jr. I am writing about this event because it is an outrage, because I want others to know that it is an outrage, and because, even now, I have not fully processed the meaning of it.

Here's what I understand to have happened: The officer in my friend's case was really motivated by a simmering cauldron of anger that my friend had not immediately complied with his initial command to step out of the house. In hindsight, that was the right thing to do since I think my friend could have been physically injured by this police officer (if not worse) had he, in fact, stepped out of his home before showing his ID. Black Americans recall all too well that Amadou Diallo reached for his identification in a public space when confronted by police and, 42 gun shots later, became the textbook case of deadly race-infected police bias.

Skip is one of the most readily recognized black men in America and the most broadly influential black scholar of this generation. And yes, in the liberal, politically correct cocoon of "the people's Republic of Cambridge," a famous, wealthy and important black man was arrested on his front porch. The ultimate charge? "Disorderly conduct." Whatever that means.

Even before the charge were dropped Tuesday, I knew in my bones that this officer was wrong. I knew in my bones that this situation was about the level of deference from a black male that a white cop expects. I say this even though I did not see the events themselves unfold. What I do know with certainty is that the officer, even by his own written report, understood that he was dealing with a lawful resident of the house when he made the arrest. That same report makes it clear that at the time of the arrest, the officer was no longer concerned about the report of a "burglary in progress" involving "two black males." No, by this point we're talking about something else entirely.

Maybe this "situation" had something to do with Harvard University and social class. It is possible that one element of what happened here involved a policeman with working-class roots who faced an opportunity to "level the playing field" with a famous and successful Harvard professor. But even if class mattered, it did so mostly because of how, in this situation, it was bound up with race.

Imagine the scenario. An influential man, in his own home, is ordered to step outside by a policeman. Naturally and without disrespect he asks "Why?" or perhaps "Who are you?" The officer says words to the effect, "I'm responding to a burglary report. Step outside now!"

To which, our confident man, in his own home, says, "No. This is my house. I live here. I work for the university, and the university manages this property." The response prompts the officer to demand identification. "Fine," our resident says, and he pulls out two forms of identification from his wallet.

The officer now knows with high certainty that he is dealing with the legitimate resident of the home. Does he ask, "Is everything alright, sir? We had a report of a burglary." No, he does not. Does he say, "I'm sorry, sir, if I frightened you before. We had a report of a burglary, and all they said was 'two black men at this address.' You can understand my concern when I first got to the house?"

No, he didn't do that either. He also could have disengaged by walking away. But no, he didn't do that either.

This officer continued to insist that my friend step outside. By now, it is clear to my friend that the officer has, well, "an attitude problem." So, as I suspect would happen with any influential, successful person, in their own home, who has provided authoritative identification to a policeman would do in this situation: My friend says, "I want your name and badge number." The cop says nothing sensible in response but continues to wait at the door.

The request for the officer's name and badge number is pressed again. No response. Social scientists have plenty of hard data showing that African Americans, across the social-class spectrum, are deeply distrustful of the police. The best research suggests that this perception has substantial roots in direct personal encounters with police that individuals felt were discriminatory or motivated by racism. But this perception of bias also rests on a shared collective knowledge of a history of discriminatory treatment of blacks by police and of social policies with built-in forms of racial bias (i.e., stiffer sentences for use of crack versus powder cocaine).

In the age of Obama, however, with all the talk of post-racial comity, you might have thought what happened to Skip Gates was an impossibility. Even the deepest race cynic—picture comedian Dave Chappelle as "Conspiracy Brother" from the movie Undercover Brother—couldn't predict such an event. But, I will say that when I moved into the same affluent area as Gates, I wondered whether someone might mistakenly report me, a black man, for breaking into my own house in a largely white neighborhood and what I would have to do to prove that the house actually belonged to me if the police showed up at the door.

I remember joking with my wife that maybe I should keep a copy of the mortgage papers and deed in the front foyer, just in case. I do now. And it is no longer a joke.

There is no way to completely erase and undo what has been done. And there is, indeed, a larger lesson here about the problem of racial bias and misuse of discretion by police that still, all too often, works against blacks, especially poor blacks. If Skip Gates can be arrested on his front porch and end up in handcuffs in a police cruiser then, sadly, there, but for the grace of God, goes every other black man in America. That is one sad statement, and it should also be enough to end all this post-racial hogwash.

Maybe events will prove my cynicism and anger unwarranted. Perhaps the officer involved will be fully held to account for his actions. Perhaps Gates will hear the apology he so richly deserves to hear. Perhaps a review of training, policy and practice by police in my fair city and many others will take place and move us closer to a day of bias-free policing. If you're inclined to believe all that will happen, then I've got a shiny, new, post-racial narrative I'd be happy to sell.

Lawrence Bobo is the W.E.B. Du Bois Professor of the Social Sciences at Harvard University.

And yet the author (and close friend) conveniently fails to mention Gates' reported tirade against the arresting Officer. A tirade which ultimately led to his arrest.
I like how that article implies that this officer is a raging hothead and was asking Gates to step out of the home initially so they he could beat him in broad daylight. :thumbup:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.

Well "Mr my name is Jacob whos daddy has been a cop for under 30 years", the fact is this was a middle/upper class person who happened to be black, do I disagree that people act differently about blacks, no, even jessy jackson said that if he was walking down the street, followed by black youths, he'd be afraid. Do you thing cops, even your daddy, are any different? So yes I agree with your pops, whats his name again?
I think you agree with me? You're being a jackass, but I think you might kinda get it. My dad's name is Capt. Jeff, to you :yawn: Look, I am totally on the cops side in this one. But the people who say it doesn't have anything to do with race are just as stupid as the people who say the cop was racist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait. I skimmed through more of this thread. Are you guys comparing me to timschoset? I've been here longer than him, if anything he's my alias.

LOL
That's not funny. I'm toiling away in anonymity (although I have no idea who you are either). I need some board cred, quick.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE I. CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER

Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

This is the Massachusetts code section cited in the police report. I am having a hard time understanding why loudly complaining to the police in your own front yard qualifies for an arrest under this statute. Apparently the officer thought he had enough for probable cause under this statute. The Department subsequently decided, apparently, not to refer the matter for prosecution. Gates was not charged with obstructing an officer for failing to show his ID. He was charged with disturbing the peace based on discussions outside the house after his identity and right to occupy the house were verified. The police report does not indicate suspicion of other burglars still being in the home; it may be valid to speculate whether the officer considered that, but it is not a factor he gives in making the arrest.

I love old ordinance language left over from another age. Most of that is likely unconstitutional status crime stuff and wholly unenforceable. Under that statute I do not believe the professor should have been charged. This is more of a failure to obey or an interfering or obstructing investigation scenario, and as i have intimated one that would have best been handled with no charges. I do suspect this was a bit of a contempt of cop case. I also believe the professor was a jerk in this instance and that he brought his trouble supon himself, but I am making allowances for the person i do not know with those allowances being that the old man was tired from a long flight and from the frustration of his lock being broken. The old man had a long day. I liken it to frankie Pentangeli when he gets up in Michael's grill in GFII. Michael shows discretion recognizing the old man had to much to drink. Sometimes incidents are not global expressions, they are not sweeping object lessons, sometimes they are just individual cautionary tales with littl application as general cautionary tales.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.

Well "Mr my name is Jacob whos daddy has been a cop for under 30 years", the fact is this was a middle/upper class person who happened to be black, do I disagree that people act differently about blacks, no, even jessy jackson said that if he was walking down the street, followed by black youths, he'd be afraid. Do you thing cops, even your daddy, are any different? So yes I agree with your pops, whats his name again?
I think you agree with me? You're being a jackass, but I think you might kinda get it. My dad's name is Capt. Jeff, to you :goodposting: Look, I am totally on the cops side in this one. But the people who say it doesn't have anything to do with race are just as stupid as the people who say the cop was racist.
So you think it just has a little bit to do with race? Not enough that the cop is a "racist" though. But maybe just a little bit of a racist? Even after everything posted about this guy, that he actually taught a class for five years about how avoid racial profiling? Why does race have to be an issue? Why can't this just be a situation that got out of hand and a guy got arrested? Regardless of whether the arrest was right or wrong, why are you so certain race was an issue?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.

Well "Mr my name is Jacob whos daddy has been a cop for under 30 years", the fact is this was a middle/upper class person who happened to be black, do I disagree that people act differently about blacks, no, even jessy jackson said that if he was walking down the street, followed by black youths, he'd be afraid. Do you thing cops, even your daddy, are any different? So yes I agree with your pops, whats his name again?
I think you agree with me? You're being a jackass, but I think you might kinda get it. My dad's name is Capt. Jeff, to you :goodposting: Look, I am totally on the cops side in this one. But the people who say it doesn't have anything to do with race are just as stupid as the people who say the cop was racist.
So you think it just has a little bit to do with race? Not enough that the cop is a "racist" though. But maybe just a little bit of a racist? Even after everything posted about this guy, that he actually taught a class for five years about how avoid racial profiling? Why does race have to be an issue? Why can't this just be a situation that got out of hand and a guy got arrested? Regardless of whether the arrest was right or wrong, why are you so certain race was an issue?
Read the link you posted earlier. Blacks commit crimes more than whites. It likely wouldn't have blown up, or maybe even called in (I'm aware his house had been broken into before).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

By DENISE LAVOIE, Associated Press Writer Denise Lavoie, Associated Press Writer 25 mins ago

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant accused of racial profiling after he arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his home was hand-picked by a black police commissioner to teach recruits about avoiding racial profiling.

Friends and fellow officers — black and white — say Sgt. James Crowley is a principled cop and family man who is being unfairly described as racist.

"If people are looking for a guy who's abusive or arrogant, they got the wrong guy," said Andy Meyer, of Natick, who has vacationed with Crowley, coached youth sports with him and is his teammate on a men's softball team. "This is not a racist, rogue cop. This is a fine, upstanding man. And if every cop in the world were like him, it would be a better place."

Gates accused the 11-year department veteran of being an unyielding, race-baiting authoritarian after Crowley arrested and charged him with disorderly conduct last week.

Crowley confronted Gates in his home after a woman passing by summoned police for a possible burglary. The sergeant said he arrested Gates after the scholar repeatedly accused him of racism and made derogatory remarks about his mother, allegations the professor challenges. Gates has labeled Crowley a "rogue cop," demanded an apology and said he may sue the police department.

On Wednesday, President Barack Obama elevated the dispute, when he said Cambridge Police "acted stupidly" during the encounter.

Crowley didn't immediately return a phone message left by The Associated Press on Thursday.

He has said he has no reason to apologize and, on Thursday, told a radio station Obama went too far.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent," he told WBZ-AM. "I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts, as he himself stated before he made that comment."

The sergeant added: "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Later in the day, Obama himself stepped back, telling ABC News, "From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably that it would have been better if cooler heads had prevailed."

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas, in his first public comments on the arrest, said Thursday that Crowley was a decorated officer who followed procedure. The department is putting together an independent panel to review the arrest, but Haas said he did not think the whole story had been told.

"Sgt. Crowley is a stellar member of this department. I rely on his judgment every day. ... I don't consider him a rogue cop in any way," Haas said. "I think he basically did the best in the situation that was presented to him."

But Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, once the top civil rights official in the Clinton administration and now, like Obama, the first black to hold his job, labeled the arrest "every black man's nightmare."

The governor told reporters: "You ought to be able to raise your voice in your own house without risk of arrest."

Those who know the 42-year-old Crowley say is calm, reliable and committed to everyday interests like playing softball and coaching his children's youth teams.

"He's a guy that you hope shows up for the game, because he adds some levity. He's a team guy and he hangs out after the game," said Joe Ranieri, who plays softball with Crowley in suburban Natick.

Dan Keefe, a town parks official who knows Crowley from his work coaching youth swim, softball, basketball and baseball teams, said: "I would give him my daughter to coach in a blink of an eye, and I can't say any stronger opinion than that."

Crowley grew up in Cambridge's Fresh Pond neighborhood and attended the city's racially diverse public schools, including Cambridge Rindge and Latin High School. His brothers Jack and Joseph also work for the police department. His third sibling, Daniel, is a Middlesex County deputy sheriff.

Now married with three children of his own, Crowley lives about 15 miles from the city where he works.

He joined the Cambridge Police Department about 11 years ago and oversees the evidence room, records unit and paid police details.

For five of the past six years, Crowley also has volunteered alongside a black colleague in teaching 60 cadets per year about how to avoid targeting suspects merely because of their race, and how to respond to an array of scenarios they might encounter on the beat. Thomas Fleming, director of the Lowell Police Academy, said Crowley was asked by former police Lowell Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, to be an instructor.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming said.

David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, lives in Cambridge, had a brother on the force there and said Crowley is from a "tremendous family."

"Everybody in the community loves this guy. All his peers love him," Holway said. "Everyone speaks highly of him."

Crowley's encounter with Gates his not his first with a high-profile black man, although on the prior occasion he was lauded for his response.

He was a campus cop at Brandeis University in suburban Waltham when was summoned to the school gymnasium in July 1993 after Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis collapsed of an apparent heart attack. Crowley, also a trained emergency medical technician, not only pumped the local legend's chest, but put his mouth to Lewis' own and attempted to breathe life back into the fallen athlete.

"Looking back on it, he was probably already gone," Crowley said Thursday during an interview with WEEI-AM in Boston. "But I did to him what I would do to anything else in that situation."

Just keeps getting better for the Professor. :lmao: Edited by T Bell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't wait for Keith Olbermann to come to the defense of police officers everywhere after some idiot in the White House trashes them with a flippant nonintelligent remark. Veins will bulge.

Edited by SofaKings
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does the thread title, Housing While Black, mean anyway?

I saw an article with that in the title and thought it was both funny and relevant: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/07/22/d...ef=mpstoryemail

It is a take off of DWB (Driving While Black). It is a term that black people (and others) use to describe the fact (or the perception) that they are pulled over by the police more frequently than white drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_While_Black

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seeing as how Gates and his driver really did break into the house in broad daylight, by his own admission, it's obviously not ridiculous for the cop to be there. It's not as if the cop is clairvoyant and magically knows that Gates is actually the resident and was breaking into his own place. Investigating this sort of thing is what police officers are supposed to do. But I guess Harvard professors are supposed to be immune from law enforcement.

Of course the cops should have responded to the call and investigated the matter.I've got no problem with the fact that the officer asked for his ID.Apparently, Gates showed his ID and the cop was satisfied that Gates hadn't committed any crime. At that point, Gates started acting like a complete tool, yelling nasty things at the cops. Which is not illegal.In response, if the cops had been off-duty, maybe they could have roughed him up a little. (I wouldn't really approve of that; but it'd be less bad if they were off-duty than on-duty.) When they are in uniform, however, they are not supposed to use force without legal justification. That seems to be what they did by making an arrest on a BS charge.Gates was a tool, and if he hadn't been, he probably wouldn't have been arrested. But that's a little like saying that a woman wouldn't have been harassed if she hadn't dressed so provocatively. Both sides acted wrongly, or at least imprudently. But only one side acted contrary to the law.
Exactly my point MT. No one wants to touch that issue though.These cops should have known that making the arrest was not the legal (and hence right) thing to do in the situation.Gates was being a dickbag for acting the way he did, but by no means should he have been arrested and taken away in cuffs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Jacob, if we're gonna do the first name thing. My Dad has been a cop for just under 30 years. We've had this conversation a lot. People are going to react differently to a black person than a middle/upper class white person. That's what my post was about. If you'll notice I took the time to single out Arabs and "white trash" in that statement as well. Any of those groups with suspicious behavior aren't going to be treated like you or me. I can't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to go through to not believe that.

Well "Mr my name is Jacob whos daddy has been a cop for under 30 years", the fact is this was a middle/upper class person who happened to be black, do I disagree that people act differently about blacks, no, even jessy jackson said that if he was walking down the street, followed by black youths, he'd be afraid. Do you thing cops, even your daddy, are any different? So yes I agree with your pops, whats his name again?
I think you agree with me? You're being a jackass, but I think you might kinda get it. My dad's name is Capt. Jeff, to you :rolleyes: Look, I am totally on the cops side in this one. But the people who say it doesn't have anything to do with race are just as stupid as the people who say the cop was racist.
So you think it just has a little bit to do with race? Not enough that the cop is a "racist" though. But maybe just a little bit of a racist? Even after everything posted about this guy, that he actually taught a class for five years about how avoid racial profiling? Why does race have to be an issue? Why can't this just be a situation that got out of hand and a guy got arrested? Regardless of whether the arrest was right or wrong, why are you so certain race was an issue?
Read the link you posted earlier. Blacks commit crimes more than whites. It likely wouldn't have blown up, or maybe even called in (I'm aware his house had been broken into before).
Your a racist. Period. Bet when you were born pappa wrapped you in white sheets. :pokey: That being said, stats dont lie, your dad comes home every night because of his racist beliefs. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...