Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Looks like Maine voters will reject same sex marriage


timschochet

Recommended Posts

With 76% reporting, the yes votes rejecting same sex marriage in Maine are leading by 52%.

What now, my fellow gay marriage supporters? Are you going to chalk this vote up to bigotry, as you did in California? Are you going to attempt an end run around the will of the people in the courts?

Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage. These are the facts and we can't ignore them. The public simply doesn't want this. Not yet. Calling them all bigots isn't going to help. We need to find a way to change minds, not antagonize people. If we can't, it will always stay illegal.

If the vote reverses and I am wrong, I will be the happiest camper here, believe me. But it looks like the bill will pass.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 149
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Courts routinely override the will of the people.Let's hope the same happens here.

Gay marriage will not be safe under such cirmcumstances. Are you willing to entrust this question to the Supreme Court under it's current makeup? You know that Scalia, Thomas, and the two Bush appointees will vote against, and they only need one more. I don't think if the question goes to the Court, it wll be a positive result.Gay marriage is not safe until the majority supports it.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gay marriage is not safe until the majority supports it.

:goodposting: it's only a matter of time...

What makes you think so? Beavers is the biggest proponent of this idea; he has argued that the numbers of people voting in favor of gay marriage is increasing. He'll probably interpret this latest vote in a positive way, as he did with Prop. 8, claiming that it was a close vote.But Maine is one of the more liberal states in the union. And I have a feeling that there is a ceiling here.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage.

Gay marriage was approved legislatively in Vermont and (temporarily) in Maine.Moreover, public opinion is moving rapidly toward accepting it. A couple decades ago it would have been 95% to 5% against gay marriage. Now it's more like 52% to 48% against. In another decade, as older people die off and younger people become old enough to vote, the majority will approve of gay marriage by a comfortable margin. In another two or three decades, gay marriage will be as accepted as interracial marriage.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage.

Gay marriage was approved legislatively in Vermont and (temporarily) in Maine.Moreover, public opinion is moving rapidly toward accepting it. A couple decades ago it would have been 95% to 5% against gay marriage. Now it's more like 52% to 48% against. In another decade, as older people die off and younger people become old enough to vote, the majority will approve of gay marriage by a comfortable margin. In another two or three decades, gay marriage will be as accepted as interracial marriage.
I wish I could share your optimism, but I don't. I might change my mind if I see a demographic breakdown of the vote.
Link to post
Share on other sites

The simple fix would be for our country to stop subsidizing any type of union and let people call their unions whatever the hell they want. I see no reason for our government to grant "married" couples tax breaks that single people cannot receive(same goes for child tax breaks IMO). Then, leave it up to each couple to call themselves whatever they want.

The reason most people still won't go for gay marriage in our society is because we are still a largely Judeo-Christian society. Many people associate marriage with church since most weddings are still performed in churches. Therefore they see any law trying to force them to recognize gay marriages as an attack on their religion as the bible calls it sin. Is is bigotry? Yeah, I would say so but I'm not a Christian so I guess I can't truly understand the depth of their feelings on this issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gay marriage is not safe until the majority supports it.

:goodposting: it's only a matter of time...

What makes you think so? Beavers is the biggest proponent of this idea; he has argued that the numbers of people voting in favor of gay marriage is increasing. He'll probably interpret this latest vote in a positive way, as he did with Prop. 8, claiming that it was a close vote.But Maine is one of the more liberal states in the union. And I have a feeling that there is a ceiling here.
Purely anecdotal. The younger generation of Americans just see it differently, and I think that it will be apparent in the future. Whether the future is 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, no idea. But most young people, even the very religious ones I know, realize that the idea of barring gay marriage is really a ludicrous idea (in the eyes of the government...I could care less if individual churches don't want to marry gay people).Dismiss it as one man's opinion if you want. :lmao: It'll happen, the question is not "if", it's "when". Sounds like the state of Maine isn't ready yet...so be it. Someday soon it will, and I'd imagine it will be sooner rather than later.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage.

Gay marriage was approved legislatively in Vermont and (temporarily) in Maine.

Moreover, public opinion is moving rapidly toward accepting it. A couple decades ago it would have been 95% to 5% against gay marriage. Now it's more like 52% to 48% against. In another decade, as older people die off and younger people become old enough to vote, the majority will approve of gay marriage by a comfortable margin. In another two or three decades, gay marriage will be as accepted as interracial marriage.

I wish I could share your optimism, but I don't. I might change my mind if I see a demographic breakdown of the vote.
It has been a year. You should have seen this by now. Age is the deciding factor. We don't need to be tip toeing around this subject worrying who is offended. There is absolutely zero legitimate reasons to oppose gay marriage. The only reasons are indifference, hatred, prejudice, and/or bigotry. The roots might be religious, culture, tradition, or whatever but in the end being opposed is not a position that can be justified with reason, no matter how much benefit of doubt you politely offer.
Link to post
Share on other sites

It has been a year. You should have seen this by now. Age is the deciding factor. We don't need to be tip toeing around this subject worrying who is offended. There is absolutely zero legitimate reasons to oppose gay marriage. The only reasons are indifference, hatred, prejudice, and/or bigotry. The roots might be religious, culture, tradition, or whatever but in the end being opposed is not a position that can be justified with reason, no matter how much benefit of doubt you politely offer.

Those are hopeful numbers. But, just to play Devils Advocate:

1. We are an aging society, are we not?

2. Don't people typically become more conservative, including socially conservative, as they grow older? Why wouldn't that happen in this case to enough people to keep the percentages steady?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and my speculation on the 40 year olds being off kilter with the 30 and 50 year olds is that the 40 year olds were growing up during the mid 70's to early 80's when the anti gay backlash was at its peak. The 40 year olds of 2008 were the impressionable but immature minds during this really hostile period while the 50 year olds were the free thinking 20 year olds. So today's 40 year olds are more hampered by their parent's generation of bigotry than the generation right before them, or the generations since.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Don't people typically become more conservative, including socially conservative, as they grow older? Why wouldn't that happen in this case to enough people to keep the percentages steady?

People keep the values that were instilled in them as children. Today's 65-year-olds never accepted gay marriage and never will. Today's 15-year-olds always will.When today's 65-year-olds die and today's 15-year-olds gain the right to vote, gay marriage will be accepted.
Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Don't people typically become more conservative, including socially conservative, as they grow older? Why wouldn't that happen in this case to enough people to keep the percentages steady?

NO! Society simply become more liberal with respect to their youth, but "everyone" moves to the left (socially) as they age just not as quickly as society itself. Even with reactionary "conservative revolutions" the trend is still to the left."everyone" being all segments of society, not each and every individual.

1. We are an aging society, are we not?

I think it safe to say that more people enter society each year at <1 year old then at any of the voting ages, don't you think.
Link to post
Share on other sites

With 76% reporting, the yes votes rejecting same sex marriage in Maine are leading by 52%.

What now, my fellow gay marriage supporters? Are you going to chalk this vote up to bigotry, as you did in California? Are you going to attempt an end run around the will of the people in the courts?

Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage. These are the facts and we can't ignore them. The public simply doesn't want this. Not yet. Calling them all bigots isn't going to help. We need to find a way to change minds, not antagonize people. If we can't, it will always stay illegal.

If the vote reverses and I am wrong, I will be the happiest camper here, believe me. But it looks like the bill will pass.

There's a lot of bigots in Maine. Also many open-minded people, but lots of bigots for sure.
Link to post
Share on other sites

In another decade, as older people die off and younger people become old enough to vote, the majority will approve of gay marriage by a comfortable margin. In another two or three decades, gay marriage will be as accepted as interracial marriage.

Here's to more old people dying off. :banned:
Link to post
Share on other sites

It has been a year. You should have seen this by now. Age is the deciding factor. We don't need to be tip toeing around this subject worrying who is offended. There is absolutely zero legitimate reasons to oppose gay marriage. The only reasons are indifference, hatred, prejudice, and/or bigotry. The roots might be religious, culture, tradition, or whatever but in the end being opposed is not a position that can be justified with reason, no matter how much benefit of doubt you politely offer.

Those are hopeful numbers. But, just to play Devils Advocate:

1. We are an aging society, are we not?

2. Don't people typically become more conservative, including socially conservative, as they grow older? Why wouldn't that happen in this case to enough people to keep the percentages steady?

The key then is to delay universal health care long enough for enough old fart bigots to die and literally kill the majority.
Link to post
Share on other sites

But Maine is one of the more liberal states in the union.

No, it isn't.Just because the 2 republican senators aren't ultra right wing does not make them liberal. The democratic governor is hardly liberal, nor are the 2 congressman.Maine is fairly middle of the road, right leaning state.
Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Don't people typically become more conservative, including socially conservative, as they grow older? Why wouldn't that happen in this case to enough people to keep the percentages steady?

People keep the values that were instilled in them as children. Today's 65-year-olds never accepted gay marriage and never will. Today's 15-year-olds always will.When today's 65-year-olds die and today's 15-year-olds gain the right to vote, gay marriage will be accepted.
I think this is why I have a hard time grasping the reality of the prejudices that still egsist. At 23 years old, I cant understand for the life of me why gay marriage is not allowed. I dont see the negative impact this would have on my life, and don't know why others would feel it would negativily effect them. Maybe only gays should be allowed to vote on this, because they are the ones this really effects. We dont let Canadians vote for the American president do we?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Courts routinely override the will of the people.

Let's hope the same happens here.

Bingo. People are stupid. The enlightened need to rule.
This is the problem I have with many who disagree with others. :confused::lmao:

Type of attitude is that..

I wait tables. I see these types of idiots everyday.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Courts routinely override the will of the people.

Let's hope the same happens here.

Bingo. People are stupid. The enlightened need to rule.
This is the problem I have with many who disagree with others. :confused::lmao:

Type of attitude is that..

I wait tables. I see these types of idiots everyday.
Well.. I dont but I'd like to think "people" are capable of using intelligence. I got into a discussion tonight concerning gay marriage and though I do not agree with homosexuality morally... I do think all people gay/straight should be happy and able to make there own choices about who they spend there lives with in eyes of the Government... The person who I was talking about it with saw otherwise and she brought on fact about her personal morality/views and I informed her its not about that.. its about the fact we vote in certain people to take office and personally vote on things as a "people" to decide things.

Difference in opinion will always be there but "people" are not stupid as you put it.. I mean what if I said because you're waiting tables you're stupid for not having a better job and or stupid because you're calling same people u wait on who pay u/ may have better jobs stupid? No sense IMO. I dont believe that but just hypothetical.

I just believe everyone is capable of being rational and intelligent.. using it.. different story but capable..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Courts routinely override the will of the people.

Let's hope the same happens here.

Bingo. People are stupid. The enlightened need to rule.
This is the problem I have with many who disagree with others. :confused::lmao:

Type of attitude is that..

I wait tables. I see these types of idiots everyday.
Well.. I dont but I'd like to think "people" are capable of using intelligence. I got into a discussion tonight concerning gay marriage and though I do not agree with homosexuality morally... I do think all people gay/straight should be happy and able to make there own choices about who they spend there lives with in eyes of the Government... The person who I was talking about it with saw otherwise and she brought on fact about her personal morality/views and I informed her its not about that.. its about the fact we vote in certain people to take office and personally vote on things as a "people" to decide things.

Difference in opinion will always be there but "people" are not stupid as you put it.. I mean what if I said because you're waiting tables you're stupid for not having a better job and or stupid because you're calling same people u wait on who pay u/ may have better jobs stupid? No sense IMO. I dont believe that but just hypothetical.

I just believe everyone is capable of being rational and intelligent.. using it.. different story but capable..

Not everyone is capable of being rational and intelligent. I see these idiots face to face everyday. Trust me, there are and always will be lifetime losers out there. In fact, a lot of people are lifetime losers.

And by the way, I wait tables part time while I'm getting my Mathematics degree.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shocked and saddened this failed in ME. Surprised as well that the medical marijuana expansion was passed easily, yet this failed by such a wide margin, must have been a lot of split tickets on the issues which I wouldn't have expected.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gay_marriage_maine

Gay marriage has now lost in every single state — 31 in all — in which it has been put to a popular vote. Gay-rights activists had hoped to buck that trend in Maine — known for its moderate, independent-minded electorate — and mounted an energetic, well-financed campaign.

...

The outcome Tuesday marked the first time voters had rejected a gay-marriage law enacted by a legislature. When Californians put a stop to same-sex marriage a year ago, it was in response to a court ruling, not legislation.

Five other states have legalized gay marriage — starting with Massachusetts in 2004, and followed by Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut and Iowa — but all did so through legislation or court rulings, not by popular vote. In contrast, constitutional amendments banning gay marriage have been approved in all 30 states where they have been on the ballot.

Still hopeful one day that CA will figure out how to get this passed. If Prop 8 had been put forth in another year, instead of 2008, it might have done better, so maybe another challenge when the election demographics are right will get it done here.

But honestly, I'd rather gay marriage be enacted by popular vote rather than by act of the judiciary. Not comfortable with individual judges making new law.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There seems to be a fairly good correlation between economic conditions and tolerance in general. Intolerance seems to be born out of horrible economic conditions. Its like when times are tough and the future is bleak, people tend to want to find a scapegoat and blame others. For example, race relations between blacks and whites seemed to be rapidly improving after the Civil War, but the Long Depression severely rolled civil rights backwards in a short amount of time. The Nazis were a fringe political group garnering a small percentage of the vote until the oppressive economic conditions in Germany made the public steer in their direction and away from meek moderates that failed to fix their problems.

We're in a major economic decline in this country and it would not be surprising to see tolerance march backwards and take a century or more to recover as a result of that. I just think its probably going to be aimed at latinos instead of blacks or gays, but I suppose it could be all 3. If I had to guess though, we'll wind up in a war with Mexico where we ship a ton of latinos south of the border by force.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the state of Washington:

Washington: Domestic PartnershipsApprove or reject a bill that expands “the rights, responsibilities, and obligations accorded state-registered same-sex and senior domestic partners to be equivalent to those of married spouses, except that a domestic partnership is not a marriage.”

"Approve" is at 51.1% at the moment, but there are still more votes to count. Perhaps, maybe, the gay-marriage cause would be best served by making slow progress first instead of taking the whole-hog approach. One step at a time gain all the rights equal to a married couple, while simultaneously step by step remove all the government interest in marriage (esp. tax related) until it's just down to whether or not a justice of the peace is performing a ceremony. "Gay marriage lite" kind of like how we're step by step slowly legalizing marijuana instead of trying to legalize it in one fell swoop.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gay marriage is not safe until the majority supports it.

:yawn: it's only a matter of time...

What makes you think so? Beavers is the biggest proponent of this idea; he has argued that the numbers of people voting in favor of gay marriage is increasing. He'll probably interpret this latest vote in a positive way, as he did with Prop. 8, claiming that it was a close vote.But Maine is one of the more liberal states in the union. And I have a feeling that there is a ceiling here.
:hi: Tim. It's sad that the majority in Maine did not allow gay marriage. Mainers had the opportunity to make history here and they blew it. :bye: Maurile makes an excellent point. Today, gay marriage lost 52-48 (or 53-47) but 10 years ago, this would have been 40-60 or even 35-65. It's a defeat but what do we do? Stop trying? You don't give up. Politicians (both D and R) are one by one supporting gay marriage. I wish I could personally thank the 48% of Mainers (and Californians) who voted against bigotry. It's a huge step to look past the propaganda. What scares me the most however, is Ted Olsen's case against Prop 8. This eventually will make it to the SCOTUS within the next few years but I think that's too soon. There's a good article that I read a few weeks ago that discusses the parralels of gay marriage and interracial marriage with Loving v Virginia. I believe 30+ states allowed interracial marriage when the courts heard L v V. Only 5 states (as of today) allow gay marriage which is a huge difference. By noon today, I'm sure this thread will be full of ignorant posts but it is what it is. What we need to do is focus on those who are willing to listen, that are most likely to understand how this negatively impacts families, and how this is unfair. Don't focus on the Peens or the CEs of the world. They are going to be the last to change (if ever). In other words, don't waste your time on them. Move on.
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the state of Washington:

Washington: Domestic PartnershipsApprove or reject a bill that expands “the rights, responsibilities, and obligations accorded state-registered same-sex and senior domestic partners to be equivalent to those of married spouses, except that a domestic partnership is not a marriage.”

"Approve" is at 51.1% at the moment, but there are still more votes to count. Perhaps, maybe, the gay-marriage cause would be best served by making slow progress first instead of taking the whole-hog approach. One step at a time gain all the rights equal to a married couple, while simultaneously step by step remove all the government interest in marriage (esp. tax related) until it's just down to whether or not a justice of the peace is performing a ceremony. "Gay marriage lite" kind of like how we're step by step slowly legalizing marijuana instead of trying to legalize it in one fell swoop.
This is positive news.
Link to post
Share on other sites

tim, it's bigotry, whether you like the term or not. screw the "will of the people".

So you're saying 52% of the people of Maine are bigoted?
:yawn: They are just agreeing with Obama on this issue.
Obama is a bigot and there's really no reason that he should be, given his minority status.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issue with homosexuality and would support gay marriage but I'm also not religious. Why is it so hard for people to understand many people won't support something that goes against their religion. That makes them stupid, ignorant or bigots?

Link to post
Share on other sites

With 76% reporting, the yes votes rejecting same sex marriage in Maine are leading by 52%. What now, my fellow gay marriage supporters? Are you going to chalk this vote up to bigotry, as you did in California? Are you going to attempt an end run around the will of the people in the courts?Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage. These are the facts and we can't ignore them. The public simply doesn't want this. Not yet. Calling them all bigots isn't going to help. We need to find a way to change minds, not antagonize people. If we can't, it will always stay illegal. If the vote reverses and I am wrong, I will be the happiest camper here, believe me. But it looks like the bill will pass.

One of my friends on Face book is for gay marriage, he graduated High School with me in Maine and posted something on his status telling all his friends to vote "No". I made the mistake of posting something and all his gay friends started in immediately with the namecalling. I thought i was in the FFA for a minute :thumbup:
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and my speculation on the 40 year olds being off kilter with the 30 and 50 year olds is that the 40 year olds were growing up during the mid 70's to early 80's when the anti gay backlash was at its peak. The 40 year olds of 2008 were the impressionable but immature minds during this really hostile period while the 50 year olds were the free thinking 20 year olds. So today's 40 year olds are more hampered by their parent's generation of bigotry than the generation right before them, or the generations since.

Is Obama a bigot??

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issue with homosexuality and would support gay marriage but I'm also not religious. Why is it so hard for people to understand many people won't support something that goes against their religion. That makes them stupid, ignorant or bigots?

I am not sure ignorant or bigot is the right word, I think not allowing someone to have the same rights you do because they choose to love another adult of the same sex is stupid and I have a hard time respecting anyone who denies someone rights because of this.
Link to post
Share on other sites

With 76% reporting, the yes votes rejecting same sex marriage in Maine are leading by 52%. What now, my fellow gay marriage supporters? Are you going to chalk this vote up to bigotry, as you did in California? Are you going to attempt an end run around the will of the people in the courts?Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage. These are the facts and we can't ignore them. The public simply doesn't want this. Not yet. Calling them all bigots isn't going to help. We need to find a way to change minds, not antagonize people. If we can't, it will always stay illegal. If the vote reverses and I am wrong, I will be the happiest camper here, believe me. But it looks like the bill will pass.

One of my friends on Face book is for gay marriage, he graduated High School with me in Maine and posted something on his status telling all his friends to vote "No". I made the mistake of posting something and all his gay friends started in immediately with the namecalling. I thought i was in the FFA for a minute :thumbup:
Riveting story, thanks for that.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and my speculation on the 40 year olds being off kilter with the 30 and 50 year olds is that the 40 year olds were growing up during the mid 70's to early 80's when the anti gay backlash was at its peak. The 40 year olds of 2008 were the impressionable but immature minds during this really hostile period while the 50 year olds were the free thinking 20 year olds. So today's 40 year olds are more hampered by their parent's generation of bigotry than the generation right before them, or the generations since.

Is Obama a bigot??

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

He's using his religion as an excuse to be bigoted.
Link to post
Share on other sites

With 76% reporting, the yes votes rejecting same sex marriage in Maine are leading by 52%. What now, my fellow gay marriage supporters? Are you going to chalk this vote up to bigotry, as you did in California? Are you going to attempt an end run around the will of the people in the courts?Whenever this issue comes up for a vote, the majority always rejects gay marriage. These are the facts and we can't ignore them. The public simply doesn't want this. Not yet. Calling them all bigots isn't going to help. We need to find a way to change minds, not antagonize people. If we can't, it will always stay illegal. If the vote reverses and I am wrong, I will be the happiest camper here, believe me. But it looks like the bill will pass.

One of my friends on Face book is for gay marriage, he graduated High School with me in Maine and posted something on his status telling all his friends to vote "No". I made the mistake of posting something and all his gay friends started in immediately with the namecalling. I thought i was in the FFA for a minute :thumbup:
Riveting story, thanks for that.
What can i say, I like to "share" :thumbup:
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issue with homosexuality and would support gay marriage but I'm also not religious. Why is it so hard for people to understand many people won't support something that goes against their religion. That makes them stupid, ignorant or bigots?

I am not sure ignorant or bigot is the right word, I think not allowing someone to have the same rights you do because they choose to love another adult of the same sex is stupid and I have a hard time respecting anyone who denies someone rights because of this.
But you could easily be considered a bigot with your intolerance of religious views. While I have no problem with gay marriage, I respect anyones opinion who objects to it because of religious reasons. I don't consider them stupid.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issue with homosexuality and would support gay marriage but I'm also not religious. Why is it so hard for people to understand many people won't support something that goes against their religion. That makes them stupid, ignorant or bigots?

I am not sure ignorant or bigot is the right word, I think not allowing someone to have the same rights you do because they choose to love another adult of the same sex is stupid and I have a hard time respecting anyone who denies someone rights because of this.
But you could easily be considered a bigot with your intolerance of religious views.
Funny how they all fail to see that side of it :thumbup:
Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...