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gruden's return to the sideline (1 Viewer)

strong

Footballguy
i know it won't ever happen--train don't run on a torn up track, but i'd love to see al davis roll back the clock 8 years and concede the provisions he almost did way back then... this is the sort of thing that would make me care more about the team than my fantasy players again.

jerry mcdonald posted a article recently about a potential return of gruden. he doesn't think it'll happen, but as a raider fan i was surprised at how close an extension was back in 2001. i never really knew some of the details of gruden's departure. sounds like an 11th hour decision by AL to refuse to grant control of the 53 man roster and coaching staff to gruden... up until that point, they were very close.

decent read and fuel for raider fans dreams

Why Gruden won’t be back in 2010

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer

Friday, November 6th, 2009 at 4:31 pm in Oakland Raiders.

When the 2009 season concludes, it will be eight seasons since Jon Gruden was head coach of the Raiders.

That’s twice as long as he was coach of the Raiders.

Yet the topic of his potential return is never far from the minds of a significant segment of Raiders fans, in part because none of his successors has lasted more than two years since Al Davis traded Gruden to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for a long-ago spent $8 million and some draft picks that never amounted to much.

The possibility of Gruden returning is probably the most asked question every week during on-line chats. I usually brush most of them off with a quick “no,” or never post the question at all and move on to something else.

It’s rare when a week goes by where I don’t receive e-mails about Gruden coming back to the team where he first became a head coach in 1998.

When Gruden and Bruce Allen were fired in Tampa Bay last Jan. 16, this blog shut down for a few hours, and I’m convinced it had to do with excess traffic. Could have been something else, I suppose, but it was a heck of a coincidence.

I’m guessing the Raiders got their share of e-mails and phone calls as well, because by Jan. 18, John Herrera was telling reporters “We’ve been down that road” and that any talk about bringing Gruden back was reckless speculation.

Coach Tom Cable is in a tenuous position with the club acknowledging it will take a serious look at ESPN allegations regarding his his history of violence toward women, which comes on the heels of the Randy Hanson affair.

Those issues, accompanied by a 2-6 record from a team Davis proclaimed to be “pretty good” two days before the season started, have the Gruden wishful thinking rumor mill churning again.

I said during Tuesday’s chat I’d give a more detailed explanation as to why I don’t see Gruden coming back since the bye week afforded some time with just two days of practice, so here goes.

For all the talk of Gruden leaving because of Al’s ego, or Gruden wanting to get away from Al, or Gruden requesting Tampa to be closer to his family, the reasons for his departure were contractual.

The two sides were working on a contract extension in 2001. Even when Gruden’s agent, Bob LaMonte, was making his return sound dire, Allen, an important middle man in the Davis-Gruden alliance, always thought a deal would get done.

Very late in the season, Gruden thought he had a deal. The extension was for three years, averaging around $3 million per season. In it, Gruden had control of the 53-man roster and the ability to pick his own coaching staff. He was fine with Davis running the draft and free agency, where he would have input but not the final say. But his two main issues were picking his own team, and picking his own coaches.

When Gruden and LaMonte met at a restaurant not far from the club facility and opened the envelope containing the contract, the provisions regarding control of the 53-man roster and picking the coaches had been removed. Much of the money had been pushed to the last season.

If this was a negotiating ploy by the Raiders to get Gruden to take less, it backfired. At that point he was intent on coaching his last season and looking for another job.

Gruden loved coaching the Raiders. Loved the fans, the tradition. He was proud of having taken the mess he inherited from Joe Bugel and making it special again. He used to tell Rich Gannon, “If we can turn this place around and win a championship here, it will be our legacy.”

Working with Davis is no picnic, but as we sat in a hotel room that served as his office at the Bucs Orlando, Fla., training camp in 2004, Gruden said, “I thought we were doing OK. We made it work.”

One former Raiders assistant told me that when Davis would make a request that Gruden didn’t agree with, he would have a film cut-up made detailing his reasons. Davis would see that his idea had been seriously considered and back off _ in large part because the Raiders under Gruden’s watch were wildly successful by today’s Raiders standards.

With that as a backdrop, what do you think are the chances that Gruden would come to work for the Raiders without control of the 53-man roster and the coaching staff? Especially when he can probably get it someplace else.

And what do you think are the chances that he’d come to work even for the $3 million that was offered in 2004 _ considerably more than any Raiders coach has been paid since then? Especially when he can probably get it someplace else.

And what are the chances that Davis would grant control of the 53-man roster as well as complete control of the coaching staff?

And what are the chances that Davis would pay Gruden what he’d receive from owners with deeper pockets on the open market?

Gruden isn’t the only part of the equation.

One of the reasons the Davis-Gruden collaboration worked in Oakland was because of Allen. As single-minded as Davis is about what he believes in, Gruden is equally as driven and determined. He can be impatient and after a period of time can wear on even his most loyal friends and assistants.

Allen was the perfect buffer between Davis and Gruden. One former assistant coach described Allen as the person who made it all work, because without him, the owner and coach would have never co-existed comfortably.

Allen came to the Raiders in part because his father, the late George Allen, was an iconoclastic football lifer like Davis. Bruce Allen, like Davis, was a head coach at a young age, a young GM for his father in the USFL, and later became an agent. But Allen held coaches in reverence, having been raised by one, while Davis was more about players than coaches.

Trading Gruden was just fundamentally the wrong thing to do in Allen’s mind, and it was really no surprise when he opted to join Gruden in Tampa.

If Gruden were to return to the Raiders, the spike in interest would be off the charts. The success Gruden built in the form of two division championships and setting the table for a third, is reason enough for a lot of fans to long for the closest thing to the good old days that exist since the Raiders returned to Oakland in 1995.

How can that happen?

Davis admits his mistake and Gruden returns with control of the 53-man roster, control of his coaching staff, and a salary considerably more than any Raiders coach has ever been paid.

Allen returns to manage the salary cap run the day-to-day operations, mostly at Gruden’s behest.

Other members of the support staff who left the Raiders for the Bucs, and closely aligned with Gruden and Allen, also return.

Davis takes a back seat and lets someone else do the heavy lifting to rebuild his tattered franchise, available for advice, support and perspective but letting his coach and senior executive do their jobs.

If you think all those things can happen, dream on.

Hey, the Raiders came back to Oakland in 1995 after 13 years in Los Angeles. What’s another miracle 15 years later?
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers.

-He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren.

-I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.

-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.

-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner.

I just think its a good fit for both sides.

 
Why would Gruden want to go back to that...?
i don't think he will go back, but not because he wouldn't listen to an offerthe passage from jerry mcdonald mentions how much gruden loved the raider tradition and the possibility of restoring the team to relevance. i get the feeling that in some way at least, gruden still feels the same. jerry's a pretty trustworthy raider writer--one of the best in the business and he's not some espn/yahoo hack. he's sat down with gruden since he left, and he mentions the 11th hour changes that weren't (as far as i know) public information. if he seems to think that gruden would consider it, then it should be noted given his reputation. he just doubts al will ever concede control of the 53 man roster and coaching staff... but sometimes i wonder. that day will come eventually... why not now, before davis dies?
 
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I'm not a football insider, but my perception is that the Raiders organization (caused at the very top) is so dysfunctional that it will only attract head coaching candidates that want/need a resume builder. As a result, I think Raiders head coaching candidates will continue to be mainly young and inexperienced, with fairly poor prospects for success in an environment where they have all the responsibility with none of the necessary authority.

 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
It's the same type of idiocy that got Mooch booted in San Francisco, although it's only infecting a segment of the GB (and Minny with Childress) fandom here instead of an idiot owner.
 
How about Shanahan as head coach with Gruden as offensive coordinator?

Or, better, how about Al keels over and Shanahan and Gruden get an investor's group together to buy the team.

 
Why would Gruden want to go back to that...?
Exactly.The Raiders can consider it all they want...Ain't gonna happen....
Al Davis would not hire a head coach that he can not push around- hence NO GRUDEN IN OAKLAND.
:popcorn: Exactly, Davis pushes around his coaches, and they take it out on their wives, girlfriends, and fellow coaches
i get the feeling you guys didn't even read the article or know who jerry mcdonald is...if jerry said they had a good working relationship until that 11th hour change in terms, then it's probably true. and i doubt gruden would consider being shoved around by al a good working relationship.
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
It's the same type of idiocy that got Mooch booted in San Francisco, although it's only infecting a segment of the GB (and Minny with Childress) fandom here instead of an idiot owner.
I have been one of McCarthy's biggest supporters. However, what I have seen this year has me becoming a serious doubter. The weekly ritual of penalty flags raining down. The fact that the oline stinks and the game plan basically hasn't changed to accommodate it. The horrific special teams week in and week out. No pass rush, and nothing being done to generate one. Now if this team didn't have the talent that would be one thing. They do. Last year (6-10) this team repeated the same mistakes week in and week out. It was like watching ground hog day every Sunday. They just never got better. Some of the mistakes/weaknesses are different this year, but the common thread is they aren't getting any better. To me that goes to coaching, and having your team prepared. Matt Bowen from National Football Post called the last two Packer games the least prepared games he's ever seen the Packers play. If McCarthy can't turn this team around in these last 8 games, he's as good as gone.
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
It's the same type of idiocy that got Mooch booted in San Francisco, although it's only infecting a segment of the GB (and Minny with Childress) fandom here instead of an idiot owner.
I have been one of McCarthy's biggest supporters. However, what I have seen this year has me becoming a serious doubter. The weekly ritual of penalty flags raining down. The fact that the oline stinks and the game plan basically hasn't changed to accommodate it. The horrific special teams week in and week out. No pass rush, and nothing being done to generate one. Now if this team didn't have the talent that would be one thing. They do. Last year (6-10) this team repeated the same mistakes week in and week out. It was like watching ground hog day every Sunday. They just never got better. Some of the mistakes/weaknesses are different this year, but the common thread is they aren't getting any better. To me that goes to coaching, and having your team prepared. Matt Bowen from National Football Post called the last two Packer games the least prepared games he's ever seen the Packers play. If McCarthy can't turn this team around in these last 8 games, he's as good as gone.
:goodposting: McCarthy's inability/unwillingness to make adjustments during/between games is the part that is beyond disconcerting.
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
It's the same type of idiocy that got Mooch booted in San Francisco, although it's only infecting a segment of the GB (and Minny with Childress) fandom here instead of an idiot owner.
I have been one of McCarthy's biggest supporters. However, what I have seen this year has me becoming a serious doubter. The weekly ritual of penalty flags raining down. The fact that the oline stinks and the game plan basically hasn't changed to accommodate it. The horrific special teams week in and week out. No pass rush, and nothing being done to generate one. Now if this team didn't have the talent that would be one thing. They do. Last year (6-10) this team repeated the same mistakes week in and week out. It was like watching ground hog day every Sunday. They just never got better. Some of the mistakes/weaknesses are different this year, but the common thread is they aren't getting any better. To me that goes to coaching, and having your team prepared. Matt Bowen from National Football Post called the last two Packer games the least prepared games he's ever seen the Packers play. If McCarthy can't turn this team around in these last 8 games, he's as good as gone.
:hot: Gruden would be a perfect fit. Since the Pack was will to spend 25 million to keep Brett retired I don't see why they wouldn't shell out the money for a decent head coach instead of keep a mediocre (at best) one.
 
I think Gruden would be atop the wish list for the next HC of the Green Bay Packers. -He was an assistant coach there in 1992 under Holmgren. -I think the Packers talent level is good, and thus will be an appealing spot for a new HC.-Gruden runs an offense similar to McCarthy so it would be a good fit for the players already there.-GB is the antithesis of Oakland in terms of the meddlesome owner. I just think its a good fit for both sides.
Why would the Pack shed McCarthy? He has been more than solid.
It's the same type of idiocy that got Mooch booted in San Francisco, although it's only infecting a segment of the GB (and Minny with Childress) fandom here instead of an idiot owner.
I have been one of McCarthy's biggest supporters. However, what I have seen this year has me becoming a serious doubter. The weekly ritual of penalty flags raining down. The fact that the oline stinks and the game plan basically hasn't changed to accommodate it. The horrific special teams week in and week out. No pass rush, and nothing being done to generate one. Now if this team didn't have the talent that would be one thing. They do. Last year (6-10) this team repeated the same mistakes week in and week out. It was like watching ground hog day every Sunday. They just never got better. Some of the mistakes/weaknesses are different this year, but the common thread is they aren't getting any better. To me that goes to coaching, and having your team prepared. Matt Bowen from National Football Post called the last two Packer games the least prepared games he's ever seen the Packers play. If McCarthy can't turn this team around in these last 8 games, he's as good as gone.
:unsure: Gruden would be a perfect fit. Since the Pack was will to spend 25 million to keep Brett retired I don't see why they wouldn't shell out the money for a decent head coach instead of keep a mediocre (at best) one.
The Pack did save some big time cash when Farve kept playing.
 

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