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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Off-Season Thread (1 Viewer)

The Washington Redskins plan to fire coach Jim Zorn on Monday, an official within the NFL told The Associated Press.
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linkAnd buster, look up one post. There will be a coin flip between the Chiefs and Skins.

 
Just not a lot of guys you can count on up front. It’s why the Redskins will need maybe four new starters along the offensive line. It’s inexcusable to have a false start on a fourth and 1 in that situation.

» It’s funny how Davis’ game has progressed today; he’s made some nice catches and athletic runs.
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John Keim
 
After the team's final game, Gray did his regular spot with Comcast SportsNet's Kelli Johnson. And while he bizarrely refused to answer most of her questions, he did answer Chick Hernandez, when the host bluntly asked whether he'd have interest in the Redskins' still-occupied head coaching job.

"Well, if it's open and they called me, of course, I do," Gray said, answering with a theoretical when Hernandez clearly wasn't talking in theoreticals. "I'd be a fool to say [i'm not interested in] one of the best jobs in the country--traditional team, you've got a lot of passion.
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Dan Steinberg
 
fatness said:
DCThunder said:
I hope he plays well next year in a different scheme, I truly do.
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It didn't make sense to bring him in and then put him in Blache's scheme which makes him hold the line of scrimmage instead of rushing and collapsing things. Just like it didn't make sense to bring in Jason Taylor, switch him to the other side, and ask him to stop the run. Taylor didn't do that well, got disgusted, and wanted out. Haynesworth's performance dropped under the scheme and he got disgusted. Stupid front office, stupid coaching decisions.
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Or bring in Jeremiah Trotter, a gap-shoooting MLB and ask him to play Marvin Lewis' read-and-react defensive scheme . . . It seems we have a history of this stupidity . . . (And yes, I'm a familiar face borrowing a different name for the time being. :lmao: )
 
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glad the season is over what a :goodposting:

oh and the skins losing to the 2nd & 3rd string Chargers was icing on the cake.

RIP Horny 4 Zorny

 
ARE returning punts again. Can you guys put your conspiracy theories down now?

And I will say again, Davis is no Cooley.

 
It's always entertaining to watch that train-wreck of franchise during the year and during the offseason.

:popcorn:

 
fatness said:
The Washington Redskins plan to fire coach Jim Zorn on Monday, an official within the NFL told The Associated Press.
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linkAnd buster, look up one post. There will be a coin flip between the Chiefs and Skins.
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Strength of schedule comes before the coin flip. The Chiefs had a tougher strength of schedule which means the Redskins should pick 4th.
 
Ravens said:
It's always entertaining to watch that train-wreck of franchise during the year and during the offseason. :lol:
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Isn't there a Ravens thread you can post in? If not, why don't you start one? Believe me, it beats looking like an immature deush like you do right now.
 
Zorn was fired around 4:30 am. Allen issued a statement saying the status quo was unacceptable, and there will be a press conference at 12:30.

It was not security people leading Zorn out of the building.

 
Keim - Why Zorn failed:

Anyway, here's a few reasons why Zorn did not succeed here:

Lack of authority. One complaint among players, those not considered to be stars, was the ability for certain teammates to head directly to Dan Snyder’s office with complaints. The main player? Clinton Portis. In his teammates’ eyes, he showed up to camp out of shape and could say, or do, most anything. One player called Portis his “worst teammate ever.” Zorn lacked the authority to punish him. When players rip coaches, as Portis and Albert Haynesworth both did in his tenure, without consequence that’s a bad thing. The only coach who had proper authority under Snyder was Joe Gibbs. Other coaches were undone by players who aired grievances to the owner.

Offense. Zorn was hired because he was an offensive-minded coach with a reputation for developing quarterbacks. He also favored the West Coast offense, which the front office liked. In his first eight games, Zorn’s offense scored at least 23 points six times. But injuries soon hit, the schedule got tougher and they surpassed that figure once in the next eight games. Before this season, it was widely known that Zorn’s offense must show improvement for him to continue. But in the first six games, they scored a combined 79 points and never surpassed 17. He was relieved of play-calling duties and, coincidence or not, the offense scored at least 24 points four times in the next seven games.

The personnel. This was a big one, especially along the offensive line. Despite having an aging line, with key veterans having injury concerns, the Redskins failed to add quality backups. In fact, their solution was to think a once underachieving right tackle who had been out of the league for three seasons (Mike Williams) could start. Imagine someone trying to sell that to, say, Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick. Not one of their backups at season’s start appeared in a game for them last season. This was a gross error, one that was evident in training camp. When Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas were hurt and lost for the season, the slide began. The offense had to be tweaked to compensate for a line that could not sustain blocks. Even when the offense improved, it was in spite of the line, not because of it. Portis, being out of shape, lacked any sort of burst and was eventually lost for the season with a concussion. All totaled, they started six different right guards and four different running backs.
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Sidewinder16 said:
Keim - Why Zorn failed:

Anyway, here's a few reasons why Zorn did not succeed here:

Lack of authority. One complaint among players, those not considered to be stars, was the ability for certain teammates to head directly to Dan Snyder’s office with complaints. The main player? Clinton Portis. In his teammates’ eyes, he showed up to camp out of shape and could say, or do, most anything. One player called Portis his “worst teammate ever.” Zorn lacked the authority to punish him. When players rip coaches, as Portis and Albert Haynesworth both did in his tenure, without consequence that’s a bad thing. The only coach who had proper authority under Snyder was Joe Gibbs. Other coaches were undone by players who aired grievances to the owner.

Offense. Zorn was hired because he was an offensive-minded coach with a reputation for developing quarterbacks. He also favored the West Coast offense, which the front office liked. In his first eight games, Zorn’s offense scored at least 23 points six times. But injuries soon hit, the schedule got tougher and they surpassed that figure once in the next eight games. Before this season, it was widely known that Zorn’s offense must show improvement for him to continue. But in the first six games, they scored a combined 79 points and never surpassed 17. He was relieved of play-calling duties and, coincidence or not, the offense scored at least 24 points four times in the next seven games.

The personnel. This was a big one, especially along the offensive line. Despite having an aging line, with key veterans having injury concerns, the Redskins failed to add quality backups. In fact, their solution was to think a once underachieving right tackle who had been out of the league for three seasons (Mike Williams) could start. Imagine someone trying to sell that to, say, Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick. Not one of their backups at season’s start appeared in a game for them last season. This was a gross error, one that was evident in training camp. When Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas were hurt and lost for the season, the slide began. The offense had to be tweaked to compensate for a line that could not sustain blocks. Even when the offense improved, it was in spite of the line, not because of it. Portis, being out of shape, lacked any sort of burst and was eventually lost for the season with a concussion. All totaled, they started six different right guards and four different running backs.
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Assigning responsibilities for those problems:1. Cerrato and Snyder

2. Zorn

3. Cerrato and Snyder

It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.

 
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
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Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
 
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TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
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Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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People hated Hitler before they knew about the death camps. And yes, I played the Hitler card.
 
Shaolin Hangman said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
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Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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People hated Hitler before they knew about the death camps. And yes, I played the Hitler card.
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Totally warranted here. And that's coming from a Jew.
 
fatness said:
Sidewinder16 said:
Keim - Why Zorn failed:

Anyway, here's a few reasons why Zorn did not succeed here:

Lack of authority. One complaint among players, those not considered to be stars, was the ability for certain teammates to head directly to Dan Snyder’s office with complaints. The main player? Clinton Portis. In his teammates’ eyes, he showed up to camp out of shape and could say, or do, most anything. One player called Portis his “worst teammate ever.” Zorn lacked the authority to punish him. When players rip coaches, as Portis and Albert Haynesworth both did in his tenure, without consequence that’s a bad thing. The only coach who had proper authority under Snyder was Joe Gibbs. Other coaches were undone by players who aired grievances to the owner.

Offense. Zorn was hired because he was an offensive-minded coach with a reputation for developing quarterbacks. He also favored the West Coast offense, which the front office liked. In his first eight games, Zorn’s offense scored at least 23 points six times. But injuries soon hit, the schedule got tougher and they surpassed that figure once in the next eight games. Before this season, it was widely known that Zorn’s offense must show improvement for him to continue. But in the first six games, they scored a combined 79 points and never surpassed 17. He was relieved of play-calling duties and, coincidence or not, the offense scored at least 24 points four times in the next seven games.

The personnel. This was a big one, especially along the offensive line. Despite having an aging line, with key veterans having injury concerns, the Redskins failed to add quality backups. In fact, their solution was to think a once underachieving right tackle who had been out of the league for three seasons (Mike Williams) could start. Imagine someone trying to sell that to, say, Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick. Not one of their backups at season’s start appeared in a game for them last season. This was a gross error, one that was evident in training camp. When Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas were hurt and lost for the season, the slide began. The offense had to be tweaked to compensate for a line that could not sustain blocks. Even when the offense improved, it was in spite of the line, not because of it. Portis, being out of shape, lacked any sort of burst and was eventually lost for the season with a concussion. All totaled, they started six different right guards and four different running backs.
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Assigning responsibilities for those problems:1. Cerrato and Snyder

2. Zorn

3. Cerrato and Snyder

It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
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Probably even more fundamental than all of those reasons, valid as they are, was the fact that Zorn was hired by the organization with the assumption that they would "win now". That assumption clouded the organization's views of the talent level on the roster, and also the fact that Zorn would be on a learning curve both as a first-time coordinator and also as a first-time head coach. If you look at other guys who have skipped the coordinator step to become heach coaches, such as Andy Reid in Philly or Gruden in Oakland, their situations inevitably are best characterized as "rebuilding" when they started, which permits some patience. Zorn never got that, so every mistake he made was perceived as inexcusable rather than part of the process. It's too bad. Zorn's a decent guy and possibly could have become (and still might) a good coordinator and maybe even a head coach, but he had no chance to succeed in Washington even assuming that he wasn't too green to be hired in the first place to have successfully learned on the job.

As I've said before, the hope is that Shanny is enough of a "name" to back Snyder off and allow him to exert authority over the running of the team. We'll see.

 
Shaolin Hangman said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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People hated Hitler before they knew about the death camps. And yes, I played the Hitler card.
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:confused:
 
so don't the Skins have the 4th pick? I think Adam S. is wrong about a coin flip based on SOS vs the Chiefs right?

 
dgreen said:
Shaolin Hangman said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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People hated Hitler before they knew about the death camps. And yes, I played the Hitler card.
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:rolleyes:
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:wub: :clap:
 
PantherPower said:
so don't the Skins have the 4th pick? I think Adam S. is wrong about a coin flip based on SOS vs the Chiefs right?
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Yeah, not sure why it would go to a coin flip. They are the only 4 win teams and KC beat Washington. Seems pretty clear to me that the Skins get the 4th pick.They should be able to land a Pro Bowl LT at that spot; their new Chris Samuels for the next 10 years. But, they could probably also get some really good extra value by trading down. If they feel there will be a quality starting OL available in the middle of the first round, I'd prefer they trade down and pick some extra picks. I'm guessing they could get a 2nd and a 3rd to move down 10 spots. If so, they could use a 1st on OL, 2nd on OL, 2nd on RB/LB, and 3rd on RB/LB. Assuming they pick the right guys, that would be a nice start to rebuilding.
 
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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Most of that is just people dissatisfied 'right now' with the results this season. There's still no good public understanding of the completely broken command structure, the deterioration of the talent on the roster, the lack of an overall plan that's pursued in building and running a team, none of that. Coaches had to clear moves with the front office. Coaches got overruled by the front office. Draft scouts were ignored when the front office made draft picks. Players reported to the front office, not the coach. Glaring team personnel needs were ignored, the effects of which last for years. Front office decisions were always patches. Players were brought in and made to adjust away from their skills. This team has not had an NFL front office in 10 years. Wait until the trading, cutting, drafting, and signing is done between now and the start of next season, see the team improvements coming along, and then take a look at how bad the team still is. This will take years to fix, IF done right.
 
nittanylion said:
dgreen said:
Shaolin Hangman said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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People hated Hitler before they knew about the death camps. And yes, I played the Hitler card.
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:banned:
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:banned: :lmao:
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:lmao: Yahtzee!
 
Shaolin Hangman said:
Probably even more fundamental than all of those reasons, valid as they are, was the fact that Zorn was hired by the organization with the assumption that they would "win now". That assumption clouded the organization's views of the talent level on the roster, and also the fact that Zorn would be on a learning curve both as a first-time coordinator and also as a first-time head coach. If you look at other guys who have skipped the coordinator step to become heach coaches, such as Andy Reid in Philly or Gruden in Oakland, their situations inevitably are best characterized as "rebuilding" when they started, which permits some patience. Zorn never got that, so every mistake he made was perceived as inexcusable rather than part of the process.

It's too bad. Zorn's a decent guy and possibly could have become (and still might) a good coordinator and maybe even a head coach, but he had no chance to succeed in Washington even assuming that he wasn't too green to be hired in the first place to have successfully learned on the job.

As I've said before, the hope is that Shanny is enough of a "name" to back Snyder off and allow him to exert authority over the running of the team. We'll see.
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:banned: I thought Wilbon had a great piece on this topic today.

Immediately after the Redskins' latest and last loss to the Chargers on Sunday, Zorn asked, "Is anybody ready to talk about the game?" at his postgame news conference, as if dissecting a three-point loss in a 4-12 season finale means anything to anyone outside the Redskins' locker room. But that's who Zorn is, a football man looking to the next day of football. "I'm working on the offseason schedule," he said, when asked to talk about his future.

Even if he was the only one who didn't know, the last 14 weeks have been a professional deathwatch, a particularly uncomfortable vigil as these things go because the man twisting is an especially decent sort. Yet he suffered one indignity after another.
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Even though he won six of his first eight games as a head coach, there were signs Zorn was in over his head. And since we're obliged to play the blame game, start with Redskins owner Daniel Snyder for putting him in a position to fail from the very beginning. By the time fall turned to winter, Zorn's greatest attribute -- and maybe this is no small thing -- was his ability, despite walking the plank, to get his players to play with great spirit and energy every single week (except that Giants game at FedEx Field). That, alone, isn't good enough in professional sports. Zorn, no matter what the title on the door said, is a really good position coach in the NFL. Maybe he'll prove to be a legitimate coordinator.
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It's a rewarding profession when you're on top as Turner is now, and you've got a hot quarterback (Philip Rivers) and a loaded roster, not to mention a bye-week and home-field advantage in at least the first playoff game. But it's a cruel profession when you've struggled to win four games, the fewest the franchise has won in 15 years, and your staff members are wondering whether they'll be spared by the owner or the new coach or have to move yet again.
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fatness said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
Click to expand...
Most of that is just people dissatisfied 'right now' with the results this season. There's still no good public understanding of the completely broken command structure, the deterioration of the talent on the roster, the lack of an overall plan that's pursued in building and running a team, none of that. Coaches had to clear moves with the front office. Coaches got overruled by the front office. Draft scouts were ignored when the front office made draft picks. Players reported to the front office, not the coach. Glaring team personnel needs were ignored, the effects of which last for years. Front office decisions were always patches. Players were brought in and made to adjust away from their skills. This team has not had an NFL front office in 10 years. Wait until the trading, cutting, drafting, and signing is done between now and the start of next season, see the team improvements coming along, and then take a look at how bad the team still is. This will take years to fix, IF done right.
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As I've said before, it's a wonder that there has never been a "behind the scenes", score-settling book or "as told to" newspaper/magazine article about how dysfunctional the front office was/is. Marty didn't do it, The OBC didn't do it, even St. Joe of Gibbs didn't do it. Snyder must have some iron-clad non-disclosure agreements or guys don't want to jeopardize potential future employment or something, because in a town where score-settling is a tradition, I'm surprised it hasn't migrated to the football team.
 
"I'm working on the offseason schedule," he said, when asked to talk about his future.
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Why? Did he really believe he had any chance of still being around? Might as well have just man'd up and fielded the questions.
 
DCThunder said:
fatness said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
Click to expand...
Most of that is just people dissatisfied 'right now' with the results this season. There's still no good public understanding of the completely broken command structure, the deterioration of the talent on the roster, the lack of an overall plan that's pursued in building and running a team, none of that. Coaches had to clear moves with the front office. Coaches got overruled by the front office. Draft scouts were ignored when the front office made draft picks. Players reported to the front office, not the coach. Glaring team personnel needs were ignored, the effects of which last for years. Front office decisions were always patches. Players were brought in and made to adjust away from their skills. This team has not had an NFL front office in 10 years. Wait until the trading, cutting, drafting, and signing is done between now and the start of next season, see the team improvements coming along, and then take a look at how bad the team still is. This will take years to fix, IF done right.
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As I've said before, it's a wonder that there has never been a "behind the scenes", score-settling book or "as told to" newspaper/magazine article about how dysfunctional the front office was/is. Marty didn't do it, The OBC didn't do it, even St. Joe of Gibbs didn't do it. Snyder must have some iron-clad non-disclosure agreements or guys don't want to jeopardize potential future employment or something, because in a town where score-settling is a tradition, I'm surprised it hasn't migrated to the football team.
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I'm surprised too, but no way Spurrier or Gibbs would do that. Gibbs wouldn't say anything negative about this franchise...ever. Spurrier was never in position to make such comments. He was such a joke as an NFL head coach. His insight would be meaningless without others talking too. Also, Spurrier had no idea how things worked in the NFL. He probably had no idea the front office was a mess. Marty, kind of like Gibbs, seems like a take-the-high-road type of guy. He was fired in SD after going 14-2 and didn't bad mouth anyone, IIRC. But, he has made a few comments here and there, mostly about Vinny.Most of the players won't say anything because they tend to love Snyder. Sure, it may be because he pays them, but they still love him. Last night, Carlos Rogers talked about wanting to come back next year and said, "I love the owner." Deion Sanders to this day talks about how much he likes Snyder. Lavar is the one guy I'm really surprised hasn't gone all out, especially considering he has his own radio show on a radio station not owned by Snyder.
 
TxBuckeye said:
"I'm working on the offseason schedule," he said, when asked to talk about his future.
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Why? Did he really believe he had any chance of still being around? Might as well have just man'd up and fielded the questions.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I attribute his responses last night to "that's who Zorn is, a football man looking to the next day of football" as Wilbon said. I just think he didn't want to talk about it. I doubt he had anything to gain from talking about it. And, depending on his contract, he may have had something to lose.
 
dgreen said:
TxBuckeye said:
"I'm working on the offseason schedule," he said, when asked to talk about his future.
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Why? Did he really believe he had any chance of still being around? Might as well have just man'd up and fielded the questions.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I attribute his responses last night to "that's who Zorn is, a football man looking to the next day of football" as Wilbon said. I just think he didn't want to talk about it. I doubt he had anything to gain from talking about it. And, depending on his contract, he may have had something to lose.
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Understood. But that's the life of an NFL player/coach. Sometimes you have to answer the real questions whether you want to or not, else you just look weak. Face it, no reporter in that room gave a rats patooty about their loss to the Charger's backups. It was unintersting and irrelevant to both them and their readers. I just feel it makes him look a bit (more) soft. Not what he needed.
 
fatness said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
Click to expand...
Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
Click to expand...
Most of that is just people dissatisfied 'right now' with the results this season. There's still no good public understanding of the completely broken command structure, the deterioration of the talent on the roster, the lack of an overall plan that's pursued in building and running a team, none of that. Coaches had to clear moves with the front office. Coaches got overruled by the front office. Draft scouts were ignored when the front office made draft picks. Players reported to the front office, not the coach. Glaring team personnel needs were ignored, the effects of which last for years. Front office decisions were always patches. Players were brought in and made to adjust away from their skills. This team has not had an NFL front office in 10 years.

Wait until the trading, cutting, drafting, and signing is done between now and the start of next season, see the team improvements coming along, and then take a look at how bad the team still is. This will take years to fix, IF done right.
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I don't think the bolded above is true at all. The fan dissatisfaction we saw this season has been brewing for years. I think a lot of people see a lot of what you wrote about in the rest of that paragraph. We've been through similarly awful seasons in the last ten years without anywhere near this level of anger. I read plenty of blog and message board posts before they got rid of Vinny about how even though we're not as bad as the Lions or Rams or whatever, it's harder to be a Redskins fan because we can't even have hope for the future as long as Snyderrato was in charge. I think most fans saw the ugliness of the big picture.
 
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TobiasFunke said:
I don't think the bolded above is true at all. The fan dissatisfaction we saw this season has been brewing for years. I think a lot of people see a lot of what you wrote about in the rest of that paragraph. We've been through similarly awful seasons in the last ten years without anywhere near this level of anger. I read plenty of blog and message board posts before they got rid of Vinny about how even though we're not as bad as the Lions or Rams or whatever, it's harder to be a Redskins fan because we can't even have hope for the future as long as Snyderrato was in charge. I think most fans saw the ugliness of the big picture.
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I guess we'll see during the offseason and at the beginning of the next regular season. If it's the usual optimistic "hey, we have a shot at the playoffs" then I think fans will not have fully understood and will have some deep disappointment to go through again. This will take several years to make into a reasonably good team that's ongoing. IF done right.
 
fatness said:
TobiasFunke said:
I don't think the bolded above is true at all. The fan dissatisfaction we saw this season has been brewing for years. I think a lot of people see a lot of what you wrote about in the rest of that paragraph. We've been through similarly awful seasons in the last ten years without anywhere near this level of anger. I read plenty of blog and message board posts before they got rid of Vinny about how even though we're not as bad as the Lions or Rams or whatever, it's harder to be a Redskins fan because we can't even have hope for the future as long as Snyderrato was in charge. I think most fans saw the ugliness of the big picture.
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I guess we'll see during the offseason and at the beginning of the next regular season. If it's the usual optimistic "hey, we have a shot at the playoffs" then I think fans will not have fully understood and will have some deep disappointment to go through again. This will take several years to make into a reasonably good team that's ongoing. IF done right.
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Of course everyone's gonna be optimistic. That's the nature of the sports fan. I'm sure every spring, baseball fans in Kansas City think to themselves "hey, if everything goes our way, maybe this is the year the Royals put it together." Doesn't mean that deep down, people don't get what Cerrato did. Of course, there's no way to know for sure how the fanbase really feels, but I have detected the anti-Cerrato sentiment for years now, it just exploded this year because of the horrible on-field product and because people actually saw a chance to push for his firing.
 
dgreen said:
DCThunder said:
fatness said:
TobiasFunke said:
fatness said:
It's going to be years before people fully understand how badly having Cerrato damaged this team.
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Really? Judging from the thousands of "Fire Vinny" t-shirts and bumper stickers and chants and whatnot all over town, the hatred spewed towards him on the internet and elsewhere before he was fired, and the overwhelming joy from all corners after the firing, I'm pretty sure most Redskins fans fully understood how terrible he was.
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Most of that is just people dissatisfied 'right now' with the results this season. There's still no good public understanding of the completely broken command structure, the deterioration of the talent on the roster, the lack of an overall plan that's pursued in building and running a team, none of that. Coaches had to clear moves with the front office. Coaches got overruled by the front office. Draft scouts were ignored when the front office made draft picks. Players reported to the front office, not the coach. Glaring team personnel needs were ignored, the effects of which last for years. Front office decisions were always patches. Players were brought in and made to adjust away from their skills. This team has not had an NFL front office in 10 years. Wait until the trading, cutting, drafting, and signing is done between now and the start of next season, see the team improvements coming along, and then take a look at how bad the team still is. This will take years to fix, IF done right. I just think it's odd. But a Joe Gibbs, true "tell-all" of his days coaching here would be a best seller.
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As I've said before, it's a wonder that there has never been a "behind the scenes", score-settling book or "as told to" newspaper/magazine article about how dysfunctional the front office was/is. Marty didn't do it, The OBC didn't do it, even St. Joe of Gibbs didn't do it. Snyder must have some iron-clad non-disclosure agreements or guys don't want to jeopardize potential future employment or something, because in a town where score-settling is a tradition, I'm surprised it hasn't migrated to the football team.
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I'm surprised too, but no way Spurrier or Gibbs would do that. Gibbs wouldn't say anything negative about this franchise...ever. Spurrier was never in position to make such comments. He was such a joke as an NFL head coach. His insight would be meaningless without others talking too. Also, Spurrier had no idea how things worked in the NFL. He probably had no idea the front office was a mess. Marty, kind of like Gibbs, seems like a take-the-high-road type of guy. He was fired in SD after going 14-2 and didn't bad mouth anyone, IIRC. But, he has made a few comments here and there, mostly about Vinny.Most of the players won't say anything because they tend to love Snyder. Sure, it may be because he pays them, but they still love him. Last night, Carlos Rogers talked about wanting to come back next year and said, "I love the owner." Deion Sanders to this day talks about how much he likes Snyder. Lavar is the one guy I'm really surprised hasn't gone all out, especially considering he has his own radio show on a radio station not owned by Snyder.
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What you say is true, but there have been plenty of guys fired at Redskins Park who weren't in the coaching ranks and many of them probably know a lot about what goes on behind the scenes out there. .
 
In case you're not quite suicidal yet, this is from an article quoted in the Jamaal Charles thread:

Charles’ big day almost didn’t happen. Before the trade deadline in October, Chiefs’ general manager Scott Pioli offered Charles to the Redskins for a paltry fifth-round pick. But Washington GM Vinny Cerrato felt that was too high a price to pay for a backup running back. That might be why Cerrato was fired last month.
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TxBuckeye said:
"I'm working on the offseason schedule," he said, when asked to talk about his future.
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Why? Did he really believe he had any chance of still being around? Might as well have just man'd up and fielded the questions.
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That's not who he is. I respect him for remaining true to himself throughout this ordeal, which is to say hard-working, humble and focused on his task, taking nothing for granted. It's why he didn't lose the team until very late in the season, only after Allen was hired and they were already interviewing people to replace him (which is absolutely shameful BTW). I wish him luck wherever he goes.
 
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I thought I had already posted this, from Jason Reid:

At 10 a.m., new General Manager Bruce Allen is scheduled to meet with assistant coaches to inform them of the team's plans after the firing of Coach Jim Zorn early today. The assistants, some of whom are under contract in 2010, are expected to be told they must complete player-evaluation reports, team sources said. After completing the reports, the assistants are expected to be fired.Players are expected to be briefed on the situation in a team meeting "around 11, 11:30," one source said. "All we're hearing right now is what we expected, which is he [Zorn] was fired."
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Word should be dribbling out soon.
 
From Darth Snyder;

"This has been an extremely difficult season for our organization and for the fans. Bruce Allen spent many hours examining the football operations, and we are both determined to do whatever it takes to build a championship team. That process begins today.

"No one in the organization is satisfied with our record over the last two years, and I am sure that Jim would concur with that statement. It has been painful for him too. I certainly accept responsibility for mistakes that I have made. I am hopeful that our fans will accept my commitment and pledge to deliver a franchise that can compete in the NFC East every season.

"Finally, I am mindful that this is a tough day for Jim and his family, and I do want to wish him success in his next endeavor."
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Italics to show lower, more reasonable expectations.
 
buster c said:
ChrisCooleyFan said:
Picking 5th in April :blackdot:
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1 - Rams 1-152 - Lions 2-143 - Bucs 3-134 - Skins 4-12 5 - KC 4-12I'm thinking we're at 4 - wouldn't we own the tie-breaker against KC due to the head-to-head result?
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Skins are picking at the 4 spot. Narrowly edged KC based on the strength of schedule played. By the way they definately should trade down.
 
burgundy and gold said:
buster c said:
ChrisCooleyFan said:
Picking 5th in April :lmao:
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1 - Rams 1-152 - Lions 2-143 - Bucs 3-134 - Skins 4-12 5 - KC 4-12I'm thinking we're at 4 - wouldn't we own the tie-breaker against KC due to the head-to-head result?
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Skins are picking at the 4 spot. Narrowly edged KC based on the strength of schedule played. By the way they definately should trade down.
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Ordinarily it's very tough to trade down more than a couple of spots in the top five to ten picks because of cap implications. Those are VERY expensive picks to sign. The fact that it's an uncapped year would seem to be very timely in that regard. Netting two or even three first day picks out of that (even if one is next year) would be an excellent return on that pick. They need it.
 
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fatness said:
From Darth Snyder;

"This has been an extremely difficult season for our organization and for the fans. Bruce Allen spent many hours examining the football operations, and we are both determined to do whatever it takes to build a championship team. That process begins today.

"No one in the organization is satisfied with our record over the last two years, and I am sure that Jim would concur with that statement. It has been painful for him too. I certainly accept responsibility for mistakes that I have made. I am hopeful that our fans will accept my commitment and pledge to deliver a franchise that can compete in the NFC East every season.

"Finally, I am mindful that this is a tough day for Jim and his family, and I do want to wish him success in his next endeavor."
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Italics to show lower, more reasonable expectations.
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This is a very empty statement of contrition given that there's absolutely no details given as to what mistakes he's made or what he's doing to correct them. This was said because it was "proper" and expected to do so. It's like your seven-year old mumbling "sorry" with his head down when caught doing something.

 
Shaolin Hangman said:
fatness said:
From Darth Snyder;

"This has been an extremely difficult season for our organization and for the fans. Bruce Allen spent many hours examining the football operations, and we are both determined to do whatever it takes to build a championship team. That process begins today.

"No one in the organization is satisfied with our record over the last two years, and I am sure that Jim would concur with that statement. It has been painful for him too. I certainly accept responsibility for mistakes that I have made. I am hopeful that our fans will accept my commitment and pledge to deliver a franchise that can compete in the NFC East every season.

"Finally, I am mindful that this is a tough day for Jim and his family, and I do want to wish him success in his next endeavor."
Click to expand...
Italics to show lower, more reasonable expectations.
Click to expand...
This is a very empty statement of contrition given that there's absolutely no details given as to what mistakes he's made or what he's doing to correct them. This was said because it was "proper" and expected to do so. It's like your seven-year old mumbling "sorry" with his head down when caught doing something.
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Sounds even more empty, at least to me, when Allen, after saying the status quo is unacceptable and that "we have to change the way we do business", says this isn't a rebuilding project. His presser sounded very much to me like he was pushing a party line of "we can and will be successful immediately".
 
Rick Maese tweets: "Plane with Snyder's tail number has left Denver and is headed back east... Colorado visit lasted just a couple of hours."

Good thing there's no timetable for hiring the new coach.

 
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