What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Cleveland Browns (16 Viewers)

I am discouraged by how Kaep has regressed year-over-year, bottoming out last year, but I also think a big part of that is coaching.  He had a good coach in San Fran before in-fighting caused that house to crumble and he'd have a good coach here.  He did not have a good coach last year and all of the internal turmoil in 14 could easily explain part of his step back.

That said, he's his own worst enemy too.  I think he'll need to change his ways to be successful and I don't think expecting that would be wise, so I'll be disappointed if we trade for him and don't pick a QB round 1.  The only way I'd put the 32 on the table is if part of the return is San Fran's 2.  If it's some package of lower pick, and I'm sure 65 will need to be a part of it, then - all good.

 
Soulfly3 said:
@AdamSchefter  2h2 hours ago
Here's a sentiment not many have shared recently: Colin Kaepernick wants to play in Cleveland. Respects Hue Jackson. Browns-Niners talking.
Click to expand...
This puts the browns in an odd position dont you think? If the browns are slightly interested, you have to assume theyre not in love with goff/wentz.

So what then at the 2? stand pat, take BPA? Trade out and try and get a haul?

I would think a team in the top 10 would like to move up. As well as a few in the 11-18 range depending on the price.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Speaking of discouraging, there's really no other way to describe Wednesday any more positively than that.  Could it all be a part of a big picture plan we need to be patient and see through?  Sure, but that is the same drivel we've been force fed many regimes over.  Over the last 3 years the only free agents we've successfully re-signed have been Haden and Barnidge; the rest have walked.  I understand why, and don't blame them for wanting out of here (if I were them I would too), but there is absolutely no way a team can be successful without retaining their own.  

2016 will be a painful season.  Will 2017?  Hopefully not...

 
MAC_32 said:
I'm also unclear on the specifics of Kaep's contract.  All I know is that it is a team-friendly deal.
Click to expand...
http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/6/6/5787506/a-full-rundown-of-colin-kaepernick-contract-extension-details

cliffs


2016


Base: $11,900,000
Roster bonus: $2,000,000 (divided per game)
Workout bonus: $400,000

Salary cap number: $16,765,753

Cap number includes base, roster bonus, workout bonus, and prorated signing bonus. Can escalate by $2 million if he reaches the escalator requirement before 2016.

 
I've read/heard there are out options for the team built into it too.  One is next month.  When are the others? What are they? I'm not at all concerned about his 2016 costs; the team has more than enough room to deal with it.  I'm concerned about beyond.

 
So basically the only way we'd be on the hook for 2017 (when we should still have plenty of cap space) and we don't want him is if he gets injured during 2016.  Otherwise, year-to-year contract with team options each April.  

Yes?

 
I am 100% against Kaep because I hate the guy...

But let's suppose that Hue really loves the guy. I'll trust Hue. 

So let's say SF gives up Kaep, #7 and a 3rd...

We give up the #2....

.....  I dont know how it would work out, but I would somehow want us to either move back a bit more to stockpile picks, or move back up later in the first and grab Corey Coleman.

Kaep + Gordon + Coleman + Barnidge + Crow + Duke

me likieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 
Why the hell would we move down from 2 to 7 for a guy San Fran doesn't want?  I get it from San Fran's p.o.v., they want Goff.  Ok, then pay for him.  If Kaep + 7 for 2 is part of the deal then I would demand more compensation to bridge the gap.

 
I was just speculating about 2 and 7 (and SF's 3rd rounder) being involved.  Is there some traction to it that I haven't seen?  I'd love to get more than that!

 
Bobcat10 said:
I was just speculating about 2 and 7 (and SF's 3rd rounder) being involved.  Is there some traction to it that I haven't seen?  I'd love to get more than that!
Click to expand...
Not that I've seen.  But I'm all for starting rumors out there on the Twitter.   :thumbup:

 
Bobcat10 said:
Schwartz, or should I say his agent, decided to play hard ball.  We offered him a very fair contract, so fair it was actually an overpay based on what he was seeing once he started talking to other teams.  The agent miscalculated his players worth.  I have no issues with the Browns pulling the offer.  I wanted Schwartz back because of his age, but I like that Sashi basically told the world we made a great offer, you should have taken it.  They will get slammed nationally in the short term by people in the press who don't matter, but long term this will be helpful
Click to expand...
I'd really like to know what leads you to that conclusion. Seriously. How does pulling the offer and losing Schwartz REMOTELY help long term?

 
mr fancypants said:
An your approach is what? Let's get another Mike Holmgren or Ray Farmer Jr.

Newsflash to you I really don't think it can get any worse. The browns right know

are the bottom of the barrel. It's easy for you to continuously criticize. I'm trying to

look at things from an positive perspective for the team to move forward. But you

know what if you can give me another perspective on the situation, I'm all ears.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect.  I have said this many times in the past few years, yet it has gotten worse every year.

I do agree it is very likely impossible to draft worse than we have been, so I do actually expect improvement there.  Really a monkey picking out of a hat could do better than the previous bunch.  That is not a joke, at all.  I really think that is true.

You can try and look at things from a positive perspective all you want, but that does not mean there is actually anything positive happening.  They are cleaning house.  Great, I get it.  My approach would be to do things that actually shake things up and make players and coaches WANT to come here.  Maybe they will completely gut the team and then take that approach in a year or two, which would be fine.  Do I think they will do that?  Not really, but I guess they might.  We'll see.  Barring the worst disaster ever these guys will get three years minimum to figure things out. 

 
I am leaning more towards wanting to trade down to a team who wants a QB.  I am not enamored with Geoff or Wentz anyway.  Does some team in the mid-1st want to give up something like pick 16, their 2nd, and their 2017 1st?  I will happily take  a deal similar to that, plus there is even room to negotiate for more based on the pick value chart.

They wont do it though out of fear of a riot.

 
I don't want Kap, and will be ticked if they move anything other than a late round (5th or later) pick for him.  He is terrible. 

 
DallasDMac said:
I'd really like to know what leads you to that conclusion. Seriously. How does pulling the offer and losing Schwartz REMOTELY help long term?
Click to expand...
Nobody knows whether losing Schwartz, the player, will be good or bad long term.  For all we know someone will step in and be as adequate, and much cheaper, as Schwartz.  Hell, it could even be Erving.  They made a fair offer which happened to be a very strong one.  My point regarding "long term" was from the front office point of view.  

 
Call me crazy but outside of us and San Fran, what other teams in the top 20 (heck maybe even the entire 1st round, Jets??) are in major need/want of drafting a QB at their pick?

If we like both Geoff and Wentz, I can see a trade down and still being able to draft one of them.  Not saying I even want one of those QBs, but if they plan to take one, I wonder if they might be thinking along the same lines and taking a chance

 
ghostguy123 said:
If we like both Geoff and Wentz, I can see a trade down and still being able to draft one of them.  Not saying I even want one of those QBs, but if they plan to take one, I wonder if they might be thinking along the same lines and taking a chance
Click to expand...
Whatever makes sense, expect them to do something completely different. You know, like in every draft we've sat through the past umpteen years.

Ugh, I'm officially mentally beat down by this organization......

Edited to add, ok, I'm probably justified: Browns ignored their own study in taking Manziel

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, if they trade for Kap, to me that means they are NOT taking a QB at pick 2, and even more likely IMO it means they will trade down from that pick (which I do agree they should do if they do not plan to draft a QB at 2).

I mean, I can not find one shred of logic as to why they would trade for Kap if they planned to draft a QB at 2.  Mccown/Davis are here.  If you are drafting a QB at pick 2 then any and all logic should tell you that that QB will be our starter by year 2 at the absolute latest, in which case Mccown/Davis would just hold down the fort until that QB is ready to play.  Why on Earth would we need Kap for that???  And if they plan on Kap as being the QB past this year, why on Earth would they draft a QB at 2???

Normally I would say "having Kap on the roster should have no bearing on what we do with pick 2".  However, since they are GOING TO TRADE A 3RD ROUNDER for the guy, I can't help but think our FO does not share that same opinion of Kap. 

So for you guys who want a QB at pick 2, sorry, but I really think a deal for Kap means we won't be taking one of those QBs at 2, as AMAZING as that is to say about Kap. 

 
The fact they have offered a 3rd round pick but have not sealed the deal because they want Kap to renegotiate his contract tells me two things.

  1. The team isn't wholly buying in on him as the long-term starter
  2. The team isn't sold on the QBs from this class
They haven't bought in entirely and they haven't closed the door on taking a QB at #2 yet or they would have pulled the trigger by now.  

If they make the deal, then it opens up possibilities with the #2 pick, including Jaylon Ramsey or if the Titans pass on Tunsil we could take him and then turn around and shop JT for an extra 1st round pick.  But right now, the fact the team hasn't swallowed that contract means they are not all-in with Kap as a long term starter and they shouldn't be.  I like how they are approaching this because Kap's contract is a millstone.

Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami  21h21 hours ago
I knocked Kaepernick's deal right away, but interesting that it is valuable enough that it likely needs to be adjusted for him to be traded.

Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami  21h21 hours ago
A team acquiring Kaepernick might be OK paying him $11.9M base this season but might want to avoid the April 1 trigger each successive year.
Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami  21h21 hours ago
Kaepernick's base (guaranteed by each April 1) goes up to $14.5M in 2017, then to $15M, $16.8M and $19M. That's what needs adjusting.

Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami  21h21 hours ago
This is why the Kaepernick deal wasn't "team-friendly" in salary-cap terms, only in guaranteed cash outlay. A York-favorite.


Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami  6h6 hours ago
Think after all this, 49ers will guarantee the $11.9M on April 1 and carry Kaepernick on the roster through '16? I'd call that bluff.
 
More details on Kap's contract.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article65535252.html

...The 49ers are believed to have reached an understanding with the Browns in which they would receive Cleveland’s third-round draft pick, No. 65 overall, in exchange for Kaepernick.

Cleveland, however, wants Kaepernick to restructure his contract before that occurs. The NFL Network reported Friday that the Browns and Kaepernick’s agents were not close enough in contract talks for the quarterback’s side to “green light” a deal.

The 49ers also are waiting to see whether the Broncos, or any other team, will make them a better offer. Denver’s second-round pick is two spots better than Cleveland’s third-round selection. Both sides could improve or augment their offers in other ways, such as with later-round picks in either 2016 or 2017 or by swapping picks with the 49ers in a specific round.

Kaepernick’s representatives requested a trade last month and have notified potential suitors, including the Jets, that the quarterback is willing to restructure and reduce his contract, one through which Kaepernick would earn $11.9 million if he is on the roster April 1. Finding the right number with the Browns, at least, is the challenge right now...

 
To me, it just makes no sense for a guy like Kap to dictate what you would want to do with the #2 pick.

I hope, I mean i REALLY hope, that if they are sold on one of the QBs they just take the guy at 2 whether they get Kap or not.  Or, if they are NOT sold on one of the QBs, that they simply do not take one of them at pick 2 whether they get Kap or not. 

One thing to think about.  Don't we have to use a certain percentage of the salary cap each year?  We don't even have any good players outside of a couple guys, so I don't see how we can be close to that number.

 
Preferably they just don't trade for Kap.

I don't give our FO the benefit of the doubt on this, but maybe they are just putting on a little show here with no real intention of trading for Kap to make teams think we won't take a QB at 2, so that teams don't trade up to pick 1 (whether it is to take a QB themselves, or to have teams who want a QB to talk to them rather than Tennessee). 

 
Hue is on record for wanting Kaep.

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/6/3/4392224/hue-jackson-confirms-colin-kaepernick-was-the-one-that-got-away


Hue Jackson confirms Colin Kaepernick was the one that got away


------------------------------------------

Kaepernick is on record as wanting to play for the Browns due to Hue Jackson.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25512910/report-colin-kaepernick-wants-to-play-for-the-cleveland-browns-hue-jackson


Report: Colin Kaepernick wants to play for the Browns, Hue Jackson


--------------------------

Colin had some good coaching and then he had some bad coaching.  There was a noticeable difference in his play after his good coaching left.   Geep Chryst tried to force Colin into being a pocket passer.  Hue Jackson had Andy Dalton going read-option a lot so the talk that Hue only has had pocket passers isn't correct.  Kaep was more effective in the Pistol but I'm sure Hue can figure it out. 

Benjamin Allbright ‏@AllbrightNFL  Mar 10
Some of Kaepernick's problems last year can be laid at the feet of OC Geep Chryst trying to make him something he isn't.

Benjamin Allbright ‏@AllbrightNFL  Mar 10
In two seasons prior to the Geep Chryst debacle Kaepernick averaged 3200 passing yds 20 Tds to 9 ints w/ 580 rush yds & 2.5 TDs per season
Benjamin Allbright ‏@AllbrightNFL  Mar 10
Chryst, whose only other NFL OC job had him draft and try to run an offense with Ryan Leaf, looked totally out of his depth last year.

 
The Akron Beacon Journal reports Colin Kaepernick has balked at taking a major pay cut to join the Browns because he's "not impressed" with how the team has handled free agency.
Cleveland has basically punted free agency, losing Mitchell Schwartz, Tashaun Gipson, Travis Benjamin and Alex Mack in a span of a few days. Kaepernick is interested in playing for head coach Hue Jackson but not if Cleveland can't be competitive. According to reports, if the Broncos approached Kaepernick with a contract similar to the one Cleveland is offering, he'd sign it "without hesitation." It's looking like Cleveland may have to endure another year with Josh McCown as the starting quarterback.
Click to expand...
Funny how they're taking shots at the Browns, but it's literally the best news possible for us fans.

 
Soulfly3 said:
LOL, no. 

I'd honestly rather have what we have now tossing the ball. And moreso, Id MUCH rather have Goff
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get you. It's much easier to suck for another decade when you eschew the guy who has won multiple playoff games and been to a Super Bowl. 

 
tangfoot said:
Funny how Browns fans don't realize he would be the best QB they've had in 20 years. 
Click to expand...
I don't understand why so many are as against it as they are. Not thrilled? I get it. But his level of distaste? I don't get it. Most loved the Hue signing. Why? Because he has proven he can develop qb's. So who are we to judge who he wants to work with? Kaep has issues, but anyone this team brings in will. They don't have positives in their track record like his though. 

 
MAC_32 said:
I don't understand why so many are as against it as they are. Not thrilled? I get it. But his level of distaste? I don't get it. Most loved the Hue signing. Why? Because he has proven he can develop qb's. So who are we to judge who he wants to work with? Kaep has issues, but anyone this team brings in will. They don't have positives in their track record like his though. 
Click to expand...
I suspect this is a matter of him failing to put up good fantasy numbers.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Funny how they're taking shots at the Browns, but it's literally the best news possible for us fans.
Click to expand...
Even funnier how they report he wants to play here, then maybe 12 hours later report that he doesn't.  Gotta love the media.

But yes, GREAT news if he really does not want to come here. 

 
tangfoot said:
Funny how Browns fans don't realize he would be the best QB they've had in 20 years. 
Click to expand...
That is saying absolutely nothing. This clown is pure garbage and rode a power D to a SB berth. Once teams figured out he could only run, they took his game away.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
Cleveland Browns road to the number 1 seed!
Replies
8
Views
743
Gatorman
Gatorman
Ministry of Pain
**Browns at Bengals** (-7, 37) 1:00
Replies
7
Views
296
Dez
Dez
Ministry of Pain
**Bears at Browns**(-3, 37.5) 1:00
2 3
Replies
102
Views
2K
Max Power
Max Power

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 17 (members: 0, guests: 17)
Top