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On 1/4/2018 at 11:52 PM, Hankmoody said:

 I think Sashi fell asleep at the wheel by making an assumption he wasn't available and never making an offer.  

I think you are the one asleep at the wheel.  All sorts of reports coming out about the Pats turning down better offers from the Browns.  Maybe the reporters are asleep at the wheel??  Lot of people asleep at the wheel.  Watch out on the roads people. Be safe.

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12 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I think you are the one asleep at the wheel.  All sorts of reports coming out about the Pats turning down better offers from the Browns.  Maybe the reporters are asleep at the wheel??  Lot of people asleep at the wheel.  Watch out on the roads people. Be safe.

:rolleyes: Obviously I was going with what I knew at the time and new info means a new opinion.  Now it looks like BB that was asleep at the wheel (more likely going scorched earth) and selling the guy for less than what he could have gotten from Cleveland or someone else.

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1 minute ago, Hankmoody said:

:rolleyes: Obviously I was going with what I knew at the time and new info means a new opinion.  Now it looks like BB that was asleep at the wheel (more likely going scorched earth) and selling the guy for less than what he could have gotten from Cleveland or someone else.

Sometimes when things are so obvious to most everyone else, you should take a step back and not call people out so hastily and harshly.

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14 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

We had a offsite work trip Friday. During the trip, someone said there was an article out that said the reason the Pats traded him was because Brady went in to Kraft and said make it happen. Did anyone see this kind of story anywhere? I admittedly didn't look for it, mostly because I don't care why the Browns didn't get him. They didn't get him, and that's all that matters to me. But I wonder if there is any truth to the story.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle

There are several paragraphs in the very long article devoted to the NE power trio and Jimmy G.

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16 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

 ... Did anyone see this kind of story anywhere? 

Link to a lengthy thread discussion of the article:

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/764329-espn-article-on-brady-kraft-sabotaging-the-future-for-bradys-ego/

ESPN Article on Brady & Kraft Sabotaging the Future for Brady's Ego

Started by Dinsy Ejotuz, Friday at 08:34 AM

=========================================================================================

Terrelle Pryor wants back?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/how_the_browns_can_fix_their_q.html

Quote

 

... the Browns need to bolster their receiving corps. Terrelle Pryor, who had 77 catches for the Browns for 1,007 yards in 2016, will be a free agent in the offseason and has already hinted on Instagram that he wants to come back.

Pryor didn’t have a good season in Washington (20 catches, 240 yards, 1 TD in nine games) but hurt his ankle early on. It also just wasn’t a good fit. Jackson likes him and he’d pair nicely with Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman.

The Browns should also pursue a premier free agent receiver such as Jarvis Landry, 25, of the Dolphins. Landry led the NFL with 112 catches for 987 yards and was tied for fourth with nine TD catches. Landry, a second-round pick in 2014 out of LSU, has averaged 1,000 in his four seasons, but might need a change of scenery. He was ejected from the finale for instigating a brawl, and coach Adam Gase said his behavior "was about as embarrassing as I’ve seen in a long time."

 

We need an upgrade and insurance for JG.  TP and Landry would definitely fill the bill.  Not sure that happens but it is a good idea to kick around.

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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Your just not going to get a top shelf WR free agent interested in this team. What do you have to sell them? QB...nope. Winning history/playoff potential...nope. Stable organization? Nope. 

Yes you can throw $$$ at them, but they will be selling future $$$ down the river when they don't produce. 

You need to get the QB issue resolved and get some wins before an elite WR comes to CLE. 

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26 minutes ago, hoffman0001 said:

Your just not going to get a top shelf WR free agent interested in this team. What do you have to sell them? QB...nope. Winning history/playoff potential...nope. Stable organization? Nope. 

Yes you can throw $$$ at them, but they will be selling future $$$ down the river when they don't produce. 

You need to get the QB issue resolved and get some wins before an elite WR comes to CLE. 

While I tend to agree about Cleveland not being an attractive destination for a WR, they probably shouldn't be throwing a ton of money at a free agent WR anyway. If they draft a rookie QB and add Barkley at pick 1.04 (or even if they take Chubb or Michel in Round 2), Gordon, Coleman (assuming they keep him), Higgins and a cheaper veteran liker Decker or Amendola would be fine for 2018 in what is still a rebuilding type year.

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On 1/2/2018 at 11:30 AM, hoffman0001 said:

Apparently only Browns fans are ALLOWED to post here. I did not get that memo. I'm here to talk about the team. Sorry my reality is impacting your fantasy...some one give me the "one QB away" response...I've only seen it 1,000 times on this thread. I wonder how many years you guys have said that while filling the coffers of your horrible owner. 

Want to help your team? Put the gear in the closet for 3-4 years, and commit to not spending one CENT on this horrible dumpster fire of a franchise. That's how you'll help. When the NFL see's ZERO fan support and a franchise that is costing them $$$ they will force a change in ownership. Not only has he done nothing for your team, your owner has some very questionable business practices where i ripped of poor customers. https://deadspin.com/browns-owner-avoids-federal-prosecution-with-massive-se-1604799901

What an owner and franchise that deserves your loyalty...:rolleyes:

This isn't going to be a "only positive comments allowed" type thing.

But don't do what you did. And you know what you did.

If you've got something constructive to discuss about how the team can improve or what you think they should do, please do it here. If it's just rubbing the fans noses in it that actually Do care, don't post here or anywhere else on our boards. 

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8 hours ago, hoffman0001 said:

Your just not going to get a top shelf WR free agent interested in this team. What do you have to sell them? QB...nope. Winning history/playoff potential...nope. Stable organization? Nope. 

Yes you can throw $$$ at them, but they will be selling future $$$ down the river when they don't produce. 

You need to get the QB issue resolved and get some wins before an elite WR comes to CLE. 

What I have is the opportunity to step into a starting job & make a difference.  Wins come from hard work, money comes from your contract.  If you want guaranteed wins, you're welcome to go somewhere else and hope they show up under your Christmas tree.  

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25 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

ELIOT WOLF SIGNED AS ASSISTANT GM TODAY!!!!

BOOOOOOOM!!!!!

picked us over the Pack and the Raiders. HUGE

WE GOT THE GUY WHO WAS ASSISTANT GM OF A TEAM THAT WITHOUT AARON RODGERS LOOKED LIKE THE BROWNS!

TAKE THAT BEACHES!!!

:clyde:

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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25 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

WE GOT THE GUY WHO WAS ASSISTANT GM OF A TEAM THAT WITHOUT AARON RODGERS LOOKED LIKE THE BROWNS!

TAKE THAT BEACHES!!!

:clyde:

:lmao:

I do like this move.  There is now a trio of like-minded individuals who have history working with one another towards a shared vision running the FO.  That is a great start at building a solid foundation.  This is probably the strongest FO the Browns have had since 1999.  Now if only they can show Hue the door, the stage is set nicely to support a young, upcoming HC to lead the winless Browns into the future.

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2 minutes ago, Peak said:

:lmao:

I do like this move.  There is now a trio of like-minded individuals who have history working with one another towards a shared vision running the FO.  That is a great start at building a solid foundation.  This is probably the strongest FO the Browns have had since 1999.  Now if only they can show Hue the door, the stage is set nicely to support a young, upcoming HC to lead the winless Browns into the future.

I think the bed's been made for 2018.  Just hope that whatever happens between now and Hue getting canned Dec 31 doesn't negatively impact 2019.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I think the bed's been made for 2018.  Just hope that whatever happens between now and Hue getting canned Dec 31 doesn't negatively impact 2019.

Most likely you're right.  But if they go winless the first 4 games in the season, could that be a tipping point?  If they bring in Ryan as the OC, it could be a good situation to groom the young guy as an HC.  Just sayin'....

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Wolf is a nice name and a good sign he chose CLE, but really what kind of impact will this have?  Dorsey's the guy there and he's not going to cede any real power in his first year.  This seems like a grooming opportunity for Wolf more than anything else.  Maybe he brings in some contract/cap management focus (which was a very weak point for Dorsey)?

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12 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Wolf is a nice name and a good sign he chose CLE, but really what kind of impact will this have?  Dorsey's the guy there and he's not going to cede any real power in his first year.  This seems like a grooming opportunity for Wolf more than anything else.  Maybe he brings in some contract/cap management focus (which was a very weak point for Dorsey)?

I'd much rather have a young, energetic, etc person to "groom" as a #2/#3 then a buddy buddy has-been hire to smoke a cigar with the GM every evening.

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Still does not fix the OWNER problem here, and the poor track record. That's not TROLLING that opinion. 

They need to build with the draft, and some mid-level/2nd tier free agent signings. I don't see high quality free agents coming to town until they show some improvement. 

Edited by hoffman0001
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16 minutes ago, hoffman0001 said:

Still does not fix the OWNER problem here, and the poor track record. That's not TROLLING that opinion. 

They need to build with the draft, and some mid-level/2nd tier free agent signings. I don't see high quality free agents coming to town until they show some improvement. 

Do you have any suggestions on how we can fix the owner situation?  

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

Wolf is a nice name and a good sign he chose CLE, but really what kind of impact will this have?  Dorsey's the guy there and he's not going to cede any real power in his first year.  This seems like a grooming opportunity for Wolf more than anything else.  Maybe he brings in some contract/cap management focus (which was a very weak point for Dorsey)?

:goodposting:

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 3h3 hours ago

The #Browns are hiring #Packers executive Eliot Wolf, source said. Big hire for GM John Dorsey.

===========================================

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 2h2 hours ago

#Browns are hoping for stability on the personnel. GM John Dorsey has a 4-year deal. Assistant GM Eliot Wolf has a 4-year deal. Things should be much calmer this time around.

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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21 minutes ago, hoffman0001 said:

Still does not fix the OWNER problem here, and the poor track record. That's not TROLLING that opinion. 

They need to build with the draft, and some mid-level/2nd tier free agent signings. I don't see high quality free agents coming to town until they show some improvement. 

Unfortunately, only the owner can fix the owner problem.  So while we get the point you've been trying to make all along, we don't dwell on it because we've pretty much lived it our entire lives.  Plenty of sports franchises have won despite ownership.  You have some theories on how to force ownership out (like stop going to games, etc), but in the end we're a very very small segment of Browns fans on a message board that just want to talk about ways to improve the team, players, games, coaches, front office, things we have actual insight into, etc.  I hope you can appreciate that going forward.

Edited by Bobcat10
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33 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Unfortunately, only the owner can fix the owner problem.  So while we get the point you've been trying to make all along, we don't dwell on it because we've pretty much lived it our entire lives.  Plenty of sports franchises have won despite ownership.  You have some theories on how to force ownership out (like stop going to games, etc), but in the end we're a very very small segment of Browns fans on a message board that just want to talk about ways to improve the team, players, games, coaches, front office, things we have actual insight into, etc.  I hope you can appreciate that going forward.

My point is, the players see the situation as much as you do. I have heard browns fan say "we have the most cap space, yada, yada" ,...top tier players with options will not come to CLE. They know it's a good chance they will not succeed and kill their career. Hopefully the draft is the answer and the team shows the smarts not to keep passing on top QB talent. 

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35 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

I'd much rather have a young, energetic, etc person to "groom" as a #2/#3 then a buddy buddy has-been hire to smoke a cigar with the GM every evening.

No question, but who are you grooming him for?  I guess that's my point, I don't see this as a replacement for Dorsey simply due to the timing.   Wolf was already getting interviews so unless Dorsey is one-and-done I don't see how this becomes a big benefit for Cleveland.

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30 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

No question, but who are you grooming him for?  I guess that's my point, I don't see this as a replacement for Dorsey simply due to the timing.   Wolf was already getting interviews so unless Dorsey is one-and-done I don't see how this becomes a big benefit for Cleveland.

I don't know, maybe short term benefit and he moves on, maybe here long term, maybe not, who knows.  If Wolf is going to leave after 1 season, I'm willing to bet he brought something of value to the table during the year that possibly carries on, and with Berry/Highsmith in the fold maybe his spot wouldn't even need backfill.  

Still the biggest question in all of this is the HC and how he fits in with this new group....and like Mac is alluding to it seems like it's inevitable that Hue is gone during or after next season.  If he ruins a QB, it will be catastrophic once again.  

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54 minutes ago, hoffman0001 said:

My point is, the players see the situation as much as you do. I have heard browns fan say "we have the most cap space, yada, yada" ,...top tier players with options will not come to CLE. They know it's a good chance they will not succeed and kill their career. Hopefully the draft is the answer and the team shows the smarts not to keep passing on top QB talent. 

You're right, they do see it.  They also see big moves being made on the management side and I've heard some agents did not like Sashi.

You also only look at the doom side in your arguments.  I can't fault you there, it's the normal way to process it since it's factual.  Some people like the safe route, can't blame them really.  The flip side is knowing you can come here as a coach or player to lift a historic franchise to unseen heights, possibly become legendary in their own right....it's those types of people that can make it happen regardless of the owner.  So yes maybe that's the risky path based on history, but the payoff is exponential even in comparison to some other franchises.

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31 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

a historic franchise 

I guess going 0-16 is historic, so is 1-31...oh and making the playoffs once this century...yep....exactly what makes players with short careers want to play for you. The playoffs are such a pain with all the extra work, and who wants to win trophies....they are so much clutter. 

I know, how about getting a stud WR by overpaying him....maybe Kenny Britt??? oh wait....

Edited by hoffman0001
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2 hours ago, hoffman0001 said:

I guess going 0-16 is historic, so is 1-31...oh and making the playoffs once this century...yep....exactly what makes players with short careers want to play for you. The playoffs are such a pain with all the extra work, and who wants to win trophies....they are so much clutter. 

I know, how about getting a stud WR by overpaying him....maybe Kenny Britt??? oh wait....

Like a moth to a flame.  Managed to not be a total doosh for right around one post. Then quickly regressed to the norm. I can only guess his team doesn't have a thread since he spends all his time whining about the Browns in this one.

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5 hours ago, hoffman0001 said:

I guess going 0-16 is historic, so is 1-31...oh and making the playoffs once this century...yep....exactly what makes players with short careers want to play for you. The playoffs are such a pain with all the extra work, and who wants to win trophies....they are so much clutter. 

I know, how about getting a stud WR by overpaying him....maybe Kenny Britt??? oh wait....

I asked you nicely to be way cooler. Take a few days off and if you come back please be way cooler. 

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25 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

The roster certainly is not void of talent. The difficult part is changing the culture. Keeping a coach who went 1-31 is a baffling move. Hope they can turn it around but I am not as optimistic as you are.

We have proven, time after time, that CHANGING coaches does not work.  Let's give continuity a try for once.

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18 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

:goodposting:

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 3h3 hours ago

The #Browns are hiring #Packers executive Eliot Wolf, source said. Big hire for GM John Dorsey.

===========================================

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 2h2 hours ago

#Browns are hoping for stability on the personnel. GM John Dorsey has a 4-year deal. Assistant GM Eliot Wolf has a 4-year deal. Things should be much calmer this time around.

This is great. And actually a bad owner situation can be fixed if the bad owner finally just gets out the way. 

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1 hour ago, daveR said:

We have proven, time after time, that CHANGING coaches does not work.  Let's give continuity a try for once.

As much as I believe that continuity is needed for this organization, the only continuous things are Haslam as the Owner and Jackson as the HC.  The FO has been revamped, as well as up to 7 positional coaches (Offense, ST).  The opportunity for continuity has gone out the window.  If Hue showed even an inkling of being a good HC in 2017, I'd be all for him staying on another year.  But he was horrible.  He mishandled the QB situation from Week 1.  He's constantly been throwing players under the bus after every game.  He hasn't figured out how/when to use TOs or even find the challenge flag at times.  He's a joke of a HC.  That is the most baffling part.  Everyone outside of the Haslams can tell he's just not a good HC for this team, and yet he's the one that sticks around.  To quote the great Vizzini, "It's Inconceivable!!"

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57 minutes ago, Peak said:

As much as I believe that continuity is needed for this organization, the only continuous things are Haslam as the Owner and Jackson as the HC.  The FO has been revamped, as well as up to 7 positional coaches (Offense, ST).  The opportunity for continuity has gone out the window.  If Hue showed even an inkling of being a good HC in 2017, I'd be all for him staying on another year.  But he was horrible.  He mishandled the QB situation from Week 1.  He's constantly been throwing players under the bus after every game.  He hasn't figured out how/when to use TOs or even find the challenge flag at times.  He's a joke of a HC.  That is the most baffling part.  Everyone outside of the Haslams can tell he's just not a good HC for this team, and yet he's the one that sticks around.  To quote the great Vizzini, "It's Inconceivable!!"

Not to mention the misuse of the personnel he was given, putting his players in position for their weakness to be exposed rather than masking them, calling plays seemingly at random without any regard to the situation, the failure to make any adjustments when we were competitive/playing with the lead into the 2nd half, and that he actually admitted that he needs the personnel to fit his scheme - hello square peg and round hole.  

Unless the acquired QB is a golden god day 1 the additional talent acquired does not matter.  This team is not going to win in 2018 and regardless of what happens between now and then we will be behind come January 2019 vs. if the plug were pulled now.

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4 hours ago, daveR said:

We have proven, time after time, that CHANGING coaches does not work.  Let's give continuity a try for once.

We have proven that changing coaches to another scrub coach that nobody else wants doesn't work.  Hue probably doesn't fit that last comment because he was sought after by other teams, but other than that it's true.  We have also proven that new front offices keeping a lame duck coach to appease the owner turns out to be a waste of time.

If McDaniels, Flip and Patricia all get gigs this offseason I'll feel like it's a loss for us.  Maybe there is another name or two that is escaping me, but I'd rather put stake in these guys versus Hue.  Can't get worked up over somebody like Nagy, but if anyone has behind the scenes on Nagy it's Dorsey.  Gruden had a price like I've always thought and a slight inroad with Jimmy, but maybe only a few non-Browns destinations were on his list even with the Tennessee connection.  

Edited by Bobcat10
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1 hour ago, Bobcat10 said:

We have proven that changing coaches to another scrub coach that nobody else wants doesn't work.  Hue probably doesn't fit that last comment because he was sought after by other teams, but other than that it's true.  We have also proven that new front offices keeping a lame duck coach to appease the owner turns out to be a waste of time.

If McDaniels, Flip and Patricia all get gigs this offseason I'll feel like it's a loss for us.  Maybe there is another name or two that is escaping me, but I'd rather put stake in these guys versus Hue.  Can't get worked up over somebody like Nagy, but if anyone has behind the scenes on Nagy it's Dorsey.  Gruden had a price like I've always thought and a slight inroad with Jimmy, but maybe only a few non-Browns destinations were on his list even with the Tennessee connection.  

The last hope I have is this January 13 thing is real and Flip left on good terms. I can't imagine a Pats coach would consider coming here. So, that's it. If Philly loses does anything shake out Monday. If not then it's over. 

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

The last hope I have is this January 13 thing is real and Flip left on good terms. I can't imagine a Pats coach would consider coming here. So, that's it. If Philly loses does anything shake out Monday. If not then it's over. 

What's the "January 13th thing"?

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1 hour ago, Bobcat10 said:

What's the "January 13th thing"?

Something about Hue having this massive buy out if he's canned in less than 2 years.  He was hired January 13, so Sunday would be > 2 years.  It was in a group text with a twitter screen shot and I didn't do any additional research so it's probably not true, but almost certainly fake news is the last shred of 2018 hope I have,

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 Cleveland Browns -

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