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7 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

The majority here wanted him to sit for the year... :shrug:

It worked for Mahomes but he had a solid QB to learn from. This is just a different situation. This kid obviously has the smarts and the confidence to be successful now. This team has a chance to win a bunch of games. The best player should play...period!

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I know this team, and I 100% still maintain this this entire club has laid down midway thru that 2nd quarter.

There was a moment where you just saw every ounce of enthusiasm DRAINED from the player's faces when they realized no matter what they do on DEF, Tyrod would go 3 and out, and on offense, that he couldnt complete a damn pass.

The SECOND mayfield came in, the o-line protection became stable, players were finding a way open, and mayfield wasnt tucking and running after 0.0001sec of the ball being snapped.

Mayfield singlehandedly gave the ENTIRE CITY faith just by running on that pitch.

YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT. And it's one of the biggest reasons I wanted Mayfield all 2018 long. He is a winner. He makes others winners around him.

End of story.

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6 hours ago, Mongidig said:

I don't blame Hue if he doesn't want to name the starter tonight, but don't patronize the fans by saying he's has to  look at the tape before deciding.

He just wants to break the news to Taylor first that he can't play this charade any longer, had to save his own ### and is tossing him in the nearest garbage can on his way to a contract extension as he does a two step past Taylor singing ' I'm in the money'.

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9 hours ago, beer 30 said:

I wanted the kid to sit, I was on board with the plan, #### the plan! The kid is throwing lasers, his team from here on out and if Tyrod comes back in fire ####### Hue for letting it happen. 

I was right there with ya!  Let Baker sit and learn knowing next year would be a great year.  But after that #### show last night with Taylor, just give the kid the ball and get out of the way!  I completely agree with @Soulfly3 in that the team looked defeated by the 2nd quarter.  When Baker came in to the game, it was a completely different team.  Suddenly the line started blocking.  The running game started moving the ball forward beyond the line of scrimmage.  Receivers realized they could catch footballs with their hands!  It was truly a miracle.  Baker and Ward showed why they were selected in the first round this year!  I also find it a little funny that the guy who just may have saved Hue's job was the one that Hue held back since he arrived in camp.  How do you not let your #2 take snaps with the 1st team every once in awhile?  How do you not make an attempt to get the kid game ready when he's your backup QB?  How can you honestly keep sending the same #### out onto that field, knowing you had a difference maker sitting on the bench?  Just ridiculous.  But Hue doesn't have a choice now, it's Baker's team and Baker's season.  Tyrod is now the backup and become that mentor the kid needs.

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5 minutes ago, lod001 said:

He just wants to break the news to Taylor first that he can't play this charade any longer, had to save his own ### and is tossing him in the nearest garbage can on his way to a contract extension as he does a two step past Taylor singing ' I'm in the money'.

Funny thing...watching some of the news highlights, I saw a clip of the team leaving the field after the win.  Everyone is happy and celebrating, except for one person.  Hue simply walked with his head down and pouting until he got to the tunnel.  He then looked up at a few fans pointed at them and walked inside.  Now if I'm the HC of a team that has gone 1-33-1 in my regime and we finally won a game on our home field, I'd be estatic!  I'd be nothing but smiles, laughter, and jumping up and down.  Hell, I was acting that way at midnight last night just basking in the win.  But not our boy Hue.  He looked like he was just caught taking cookies from the cookie jar.  I understand he may not like having the conversation with Taylor, but that doesn't account for his crappy demeanor on display for everyone to see after the game.  Enjoy it and live it up!  I'll never understand this guy.

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3 minutes ago, Peak said:

Funny thing...watching some of the news highlights, I saw a clip of the team leaving the field after the win.  Everyone is happy and celebrating, except for one person.  Hue simply walked with his head down and pouting until he got to the tunnel.  He then looked up at a few fans pointed at them and walked inside.  Now if I'm the HC of a team that has gone 1-33-1 in my regime and we finally won a game on our home field, I'd be estatic!  I'd be nothing but smiles, laughter, and jumping up and down.  Hell, I was acting that way at midnight last night just basking in the win.  But not our boy Hue.  He looked like he was just caught taking cookies from the cookie jar.  I understand he may not like having the conversation with Taylor, but that doesn't account for his crappy demeanor on display for everyone to see after the game.  Enjoy it and live it up!  I'll never understand this guy.

I expect there is going to be issues between Haley and Hue over the starting QB.    It would be nuts to not start Mayfield but Hue is just the person who would do that.

Too bad you guys didn't get a chance to see Gordon play with Mayfield.

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16 minutes ago, Peak said:

Funny thing...watching some of the news highlights, I saw a clip of the team leaving the field after the win.  Everyone is happy and celebrating, except for one person.  Hue simply walked with his head down and pouting until he got to the tunnel.  He then looked up at a few fans pointed at them and walked inside.  Now if I'm the HC of a team that has gone 1-33-1 in my regime and we finally won a game on our home field, I'd be estatic!  I'd be nothing but smiles, laughter, and jumping up and down.  Hell, I was acting that way at midnight last night just basking in the win.  But not our boy Hue.  He looked like he was just caught taking cookies from the cookie jar.  I understand he may not like having the conversation with Taylor, but that doesn't account for his crappy demeanor on display for everyone to see after the game.  Enjoy it and live it up!  I'll never understand this guy.

He probably told Taylor that he 2 of them were gonna take the NFL by storm and that he was Hue's starting QB regardless of what anyone thinks, says or wants. Now he has to tell him that he's riding of into victory lane with Baker Mayfield and Taylor can go find a new team to lose games with. Hue: 'Taylor, you really are not NFL QB material. Be happy that you made tons of unearned money fleecing 3 teams over 8 years.'

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10 hours ago, beer 30 said:

I wanted the kid to sit, I was on board with the plan, #### the plan! The kid is throwing lasers, his team from here on out and if Tyrod comes back in fire ####### Hue for letting it happen. 

Another thought on this and a big reason why I changed my mind about sitting Mayfield the rest of this season.  

Baker out performed Darnold, plain and simple.  Darnold has started two games and taken many first team reps this season. He also had all week to prepare as the starter for this game.

Baker has never taken a first team rep, and he walked off the bench to lead his team to a long-deserved victory.  His play was by and large better than Darnold and Taylor.  Baker did Baker things and this offense responded.  

There is no tape to watch that will tell you anything different.  Hue is stalling and doesn't want to admit Baker is the future of this team.  His comments after the game about having to watch the tape and will determine a starting QB next week is ridiculous.  Can't wait to watch him back track some of these stupid comments over the next week.

We watched history occur right in front of our eyes tonight...

Baker Mayfield of the @Browns is the first player to come off the bench in his debut, throw for 200+ yards and lead his team to its first win of the season since Fran Tarkenton for the 1961 Vikings.  All without taking any first team reps...as a rookie....Amazing.

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14 minutes ago, Peak said:

I'm not going to pound this drum too hard because you can't undo the past but, and relating back to your post about Hue's reaction, how did this happen? I realize Tyrod probably played one of the worst games of his career last night as nothing was working for him but Mayfield literally, on the first play he was in, energized this offense and it was a completely different team. How has this not manifested itself in OTA's, training camp and now regular season practice? This alone points to a serious lack of competence by someone and I have to hold the HC responsible at some level for this.

I'll have more thoughts on the game later but wanted to highlight this as it was the resounding feeling I had coming out of this game last night.

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First, I'd pump the brakes a bit before anointing Mayfield the MVP for this year.  I love the kid and am rooting for him to succeed.  However, remember how good Darnold looked in week 1 against Detroit.....Just saying, he's gonna have his share of rookie learning to deal with, but I am looking forward to the ride.

Second, Hue being down or worried about having to talk to Taylor makes me chuckle.  I know football is a game, but it's also a business.  A billion dollar business to boot.  Put on the big boy pants, talk to him coach to player, man to man and move on.  It just is what it is.  If you can't be happy after winning a game after so long for a city desperate for success, that's not good

 

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15 minutes ago, Silver & Black said:

First, I'd pump the brakes a bit before anointing Mayfield the MVP for this year.  I love the kid and am rooting for him to succeed.  However, remember how good Darnold looked in week 1 against Detroit.....Just saying, he's gonna have his share of rookie learning to deal with, but I am looking forward to the ride.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned so far, the Jets D is pretty stout. If Mayfield was going up against the Lions and did what he did last night I get it but the Jets are a legit defense. They were getting after it the whole game last night so lets not discount what this kid did coming off the bench cold with no prior experience with the 1's. Yes he is going to do stupid rookie stuff but he sure as hell stepped to the plate last night and parked one in the upper deck.

He made me a believer last night.

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17 completions on 23 attempts, just about every dart was on the money and on time, I do recall 1 of them behind the receiver but Higgins caught it.  There were what, 3 drops on solid throws (Landry hit him in the numbers, Callaway on the sideline was a beautifully thrown ball, at least one other)?  Baker's first career drive was hurry up/2 min and he led the team to points.  Executed Philly Special without ever running it in practice, multiple players said Tyrod got all practice reps for that play during camp.  It was nearly a flawless debut and I was very impressed even with my high expectations for the kid.  :clap:

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35 minutes ago, Silver & Black said:

First, I'd pump the brakes a bit before anointing Mayfield the MVP for this year.  I love the kid and am rooting for him to succeed.  However, remember how good Darnold looked in week 1 against Detroit.....Just saying, he's gonna have his share of rookie learning to deal with, but I am looking forward to the ride.

Second, Hue being down or worried about having to talk to Taylor makes me chuckle.  I know football is a game, but it's also a business.  A billion dollar business to boot.  Put on the big boy pants, talk to him coach to player, man to man and move on.  It just is what it is.  If you can't be happy after winning a game after so long for a city desperate for success, that's not good

 

This is a good point, coaches will scheme for him moving forward, but let's enjoy the moment.

Was Taylor really concussed? He went through the protocol and everything? I really wonder if that is the case then if not for that he wouldn't have just been allowed to play the game out and then start next week.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is a good point, coaches will scheme for him moving forward, but let's enjoy the moment.

Was Taylor really concussed? He went through the protocol and everything? I really wonder if that is the case then if not for that he wouldn't have just been allowed to play the game out and then start next week.

Of course he was concussed...I'm sure Haley kept reminding him on the sideline he was concussed.  Haley wasn't going to let him back in that game, Hue be damned.  :lmao:

Taylor: Coach, I can play.  I just tweaked my back.

Haley: Nope.  You have a concussion.

Taylor: But I didn't hurt my head, it's my back.

Haley: You're concussed.  Sit down and shut up.

Taylor: But....but....

Haley: Go sit next to the ####### kicker. 

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3 minutes ago, Peak said:

Of course he was concussed...I'm sure Haley kept reminding him on the sideline he was concussed.  Haley wasn't going to let him back in that game, Hue be damned.  :lmao:

Taylor: Coach, I can play.  I just tweaked my back.

Haley: Nope.  You have a concussion.

Taylor: But I didn't hurt my head, it's my back.

Haley: You're concussed.  Sit down and shut up.

Taylor: But....but....

Haley: Go sit next to the ####### kicker. 

Taylor: But the kicker might not be on the team next week.

Haley: Yeah that's right.

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24 minutes ago, Peak said:

Of course he was concussed...I'm sure Haley kept reminding him on the sideline he was concussed.  Haley wasn't going to let him back in that game, Hue be damned.  :lmao:

Taylor: Coach, I can play.  I just tweaked my back.

Haley: Nope.  You have a concussion.

Taylor: But I didn't hurt my head, it's my back.

Haley: You're concussed.  Sit down and shut up.

Taylor: But....but....

Haley: Go sit next to the ####### kicker. 

This comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

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Some thoughts as I review my notes from last night...

  • First, great win for the team & the city. Just fantastic to finally get over the hump and to do it in as dramatic fashion as some of our losses. Kudos to the team, enjoy it boys!
  • I don't want to throw Hue under the bus too much here (I actually have a separate thread for that) but man, the talent level between Tyrod & Baker sure looked like night & day last night. That had to manifest itself at some point during the offseason, right? I don't know how you keep Mayfield on the bench if he looked like that at all in practice. And I was on board with letting him sit for a year to learn the position. How do you miss that?
  • I don't think Todd Haley is doing Hue any favors and it becomes more apparent every week. Last night Tyrod might have played one of his worst games ever but some of those play calls were just atrocious. Almost like the play caller had an ulterior motive...
    • Halfway through the 1st quarter we had run about 3 running plays which means we were putting it on Tyrod to pass us to a drive. He didn't, he held onto the ball and tucked & ran as soon as the pocket began to deteriorate. Haley knows this but yet continues to dial up play after play to highlight Tyrod's shortcomings
    • On a 3rd & 14 they throw a 1 yard WR screen that is telegraphed and actually loses a yard because it was so easy to read that the CB jumped on it before a blocker could get out there
    • Finally go to the run when they are pinned back on their own 6 and have some success. Run a QB draw that is telegraphed and stuffed at the line. Following play punt is blocked because a rookie that is struggling with pass protection whiffs his block (hi Nick Chubb). Turns into a Jets TD.
    • OL is falling apart, no push off the line for runs and Tyrod running around like a rookie that is lost and under or over throwing everything
  • The kid enters the game with 1:42 left in the 2nd...so it begins
    • Runs the hurry up to perfection with back-to-back darts to Laundry & some other WR
    • Throwing lasers down the field and sets up Greg Joseph to kick one of the ugliest 45 yard FG's you've ever seen but it's points
    • The second half, what can you say? It was about as perfect as a debut as you could write up for the kid
    • My main note for the 2nd half? It looks like Haley is calling plays from a different playbook for Mayfield
    • The Jets D is legit. Mayfield systemically picked them apart
    • Mayfield's ability to extend plays and throw WR's open shooting lasers was just awesome to watch. He also was throwing to everyone which points to his ability to quickly read the play and hit the open guy, not necessarily the primary WR on the play
    • He made everyone better, instantly. Not sure what else you can say about it.
  • The defense, jeez these guys are good. Denzel Ward is making a case for ROY on D, watch him tackle 81 on a play similar to the one he got hurt on in the preseason that caused Gregg Williams to rip his tackling technique. Ripped a fumble from WR in the 3rd to add another turnover to CLE's league leading total.
    • I intentionally focused on Garrett for a few series and the kid is good. Needs to come under control a little more but I wouldn't want him to sacrifice that for his aggressiveness. The Jets were hitting them hard in the 1st half with the run and consistently to his side. Made me wonder where the LB's where? Was Peppers hurt by then or was he out there, can't remember?
    • Larry Ogunjoby had another big night. The DL is stout and when Ogbah gets back, look out.
  • Amos Jones needs to go. The Special Teams play through the first 3 games has been terrible and could arguably be the reason the team is not 3-0 right now. Fire him now, hire some dude off the street and move on. It's abysmal and will continue to cost CLE unless it's addressed immediately.
  • Penalties, 5 for 41 yards. Nothing that I remember so no real drive killers. The ref's not calling the pass interference in the 1st on the deep ball to Calloway was egregious.

I quit taking notes in the second half and just watched. What a great feeling, like when Bernie was slinging the rock, you never felt we didn't have a shot at winning the game. It's been a long time since I've felt that way about a Cleveland Browns team. Looking forward to the next chapter after last night. I know it's early but man the future is looking pretty bright with this squad right now.

PSA - If you're not following this guy https://twitter.com/BrownsFilmBDN you should be. His breakdowns are spectacular. Scary that he highlighted a lot of the plays i mentioned above.

Edited by beer 30
Edit to add links to some of the plays I mentioned
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Lost in the celebration was:

  • The incredible job Jarvis Landry did, not just making key receptions but also throwing a 2 point conversion to tie it up.
  • Another turnover from the 'other' first round draft pick CB Denzel Ward.  This guy is something special. 
  • The man who moved up in the draft for the QB who is was the talk of the NFL up until last night and who also drafted Baker AND Denzel and Tyreek Hill.  How the hell did KC let GM Ken Dorsey go?  

After the first game when I saw the defense and knew it was a matter of time before Mayfield took over I heard the jabs at the Browns and how everyone was looking past them.  I shot a PM to a well-known Steeler fan and told him, "THESE BROWNS are not the same old Browns."  He sorta patted me on the head and wrote back saying 'It would be good for the league to see the Browns competitive again.'

Well, these Browns are not the same old Browns.  

It will still take people in the media time to realize it but things have changed.

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2 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

First, I'd pump the brakes a bit before anointing Mayfield the MVP for this year.  I love the kid and am rooting for him to succeed.  However, remember how good Darnold looked in week 1 against Detroit.....Just saying, he's gonna have his share of rookie learning to deal with, but I am looking forward to the ride.

Second, Hue being down or worried about having to talk to Taylor makes me chuckle.  I know football is a game, but it's also a business.  A billion dollar business to boot.  Put on the big boy pants, talk to him coach to player, man to man and move on.  It just is what it is.  If you can't be happy after winning a game after so long for a city desperate for success, that's not good

 

#### pumping any brakes.  That was the first time I've enjoyed watching this team in four years.  FOUR ####### YEARS.  I'm gonna celebrate like a raving lunatic until I'm given a reason not to.

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1 hour ago, Bobcat10 said:

17 completions on 23 attempts, just about every dart was on the money and on time, I do recall 1 of them behind the receiver but Higgins caught it.  There were what, 3 drops on solid throws (Landry hit him in the numbers, Callaway on the sideline was a beautifully thrown ball, at least one other)?  Baker's first career drive was hurry up/2 min and he led the team to points.  Executed Philly Special without ever running it in practice, multiple players said Tyrod got all practice reps for that play during camp.  It was nearly a flawless debut and I was very impressed even with my high expectations for the kid.  :clap:

And I think that one he threw behind Higgins was intentional.  He leads him and he leads him into a truck stick from the free safety.

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15 minutes ago, beer 30 said:
    • On a 3rd & 14 they throw a 1 yard WR screen that is telegraphed and actually loses a yard because it was so easy to read that the CB jumped on it before a blocker could get out there

 

    • My main note for the 2nd half? It looks like Haley is calling plays from a different playbook for Mayfield

1st bullet - Jets converted I think 3 bubble screens of around 3rd and 10 for 1st downs.  Haley's call isn't necessarily the problem, it's the execution (and on the flip side our defense's poor recognition and tackling), although you could argue just try to get the ball down the field.

2nd bullet - I've seen this type of comment in more than 1 place.  Besides the designed QB runs, or options if that's what they are, is he really?  Or is Baker just that much better mentally and physically?

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20 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

2nd bullet - I've seen this type of comment in more than 1 place.  Besides the designed QB runs, or options if that's what they are, is he really?  Or is Baker just that much better mentally and physically?

I think it was pretty obvious last night that Mayfield is better in just about every facet than Taylor has been. Maybe you're right and Baker just executes the way the play is designed but damn, how bad is Taylor then? And if that's the case, wtf was making the decision every week to keep him on the field? Like I said earlier, the coaches have been watching these guys since they traded for Taylor, no way these two side-by-side, you couldn't pick out that Mayfield is throwing on target lasers compared to what we have seen from Taylor.

I guess it could be Taylor is a practice warrior and Mayfield isn't but I don't get the feel that's the case. I'm looking for reasons why the kid we saw last night come in and dominate a good defense has been on the bench for this long and never was given the chance to work with the starters? If the play between the two was close, I could see the HC going with the vet but what I saw last night? The talent gap is huge between the two so it had to be a team decision to keep the kid on the bench. That's the only thing I can come up with.

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

The talent gap is huge between the two so it had to be a team decision to keep the kid on the bench. That's the only thing I can come up with.

The reason Mayfield was sitting is because the O-Line still isn't quite set and the WRs are in a state of flux not to mention we still haven't established the running game enough.

We are starting a rookie undrafted free agent left tackle and the free agent right tackle hasn't really settled in yet.

We cut/trade our #1 WR days ago and are starting a rookie 4th round pick and a second year TE with scant depth at the receiver position.

Our rookie RB can't pass protect and he looked like shttt with that BS 'Olaay' non-block on that punt block.  Kid should get his rookie azzz sat for weeks just for that because that could have cost the ball game.  I'm still pisssed about that and I don't care what Soul says that rookie needs to get his head screwed on and frk'n gddam learn how to block before he gets on the field because we can't allow a rookie to cost us games..

Baker is starting and the 'other' pieces are going to have to develop/catch up because the Baker train is roll'n.

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19 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I think it was pretty obvious last night that Mayfield is better in just about every facet than Taylor has been. Maybe you're right and Baker just executes the way the play is designed but damn, how bad is Taylor then? And if that's the case, wtf was making the decision every week to keep him on the field? Like I said earlier, the coaches have been watching these guys since they traded for Taylor, no way these two side-by-side, you couldn't pick out that Mayfield is throwing on target lasers compared to what we have seen from Taylor.

I guess it could be Taylor is a practice warrior and Mayfield isn't but I don't get the feel that's the case. I'm looking for reasons why the kid we saw last night come in and dominate a good defense has been on the bench for this long and never was given the chance to work with the starters? If the play between the two was close, I could see the HC going with the vet but what I saw last night? The talent gap is huge between the two so it had to be a team decision to keep the kid on the bench. That's the only thing I can come up with.

I actually slightly misinterpreted your original point.  I agree.  Gap is significant.  You could see it in the preseason, but then you chalk it up to preseason and make all kinds of excuses like who's on the field, vanilla defenses, etc.  

It was just 32 minutes of football last night for Baker, so we'll see how this plays out over the next couple weeks, but those 32 minutes were glorious.  

Edited by Bobcat10
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17 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I think it was pretty obvious last night that Mayfield is better in just about every facet than Taylor has been. Maybe you're right and Baker just executes the way the play is designed but damn, how bad is Taylor then? And if that's the case, wtf was making the decision every week to keep him on the field? Like I said earlier, the coaches have been watching these guys since they traded for Taylor, no way these two side-by-side, you couldn't pick out that Mayfield is throwing on target lasers compared to what we have seen from Taylor.

I guess it could be Taylor is a practice warrior and Mayfield isn't but I don't get the feel that's the case. I'm looking for reasons why the kid we saw last night come in and dominate a good defense has been on the bench for this long and never was given the chance to work with the starters? If the play between the two was close, I could see the HC going with the vet but what I saw last night? The talent gap is huge between the two so it had to be a team decision to keep the kid on the bench. That's the only thing I can come up with.

It was the plan put in place in January and it'd take something extraordinary to undig their heels and have them call an audible.  Thankfully what happened last night was extraordinary - to both of them.

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If anyone is surprised by the strength and arm talent of Mayfield, I distinctly recall this from the pre-draft process that made me raise an eyebrow.

Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield top QB velocity during combine throwing session

Quote

 

Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield were the only quarterbacks who topped 60 MPH on the radar gun during the NFL Scouting Combine.

Dan Shonka from Ourlads published the velocity numbers for all the quarterbacks throwing at the combine. Throws to both the left and the right are listed. Allen and Mayfield were the only QBs to hit 60 MPH.

It’s not a surprise to see Allen at the top with 62 MPH. His arm strength is his greatest attribute. Mayfield throwing so hard will stun many critics who label his arm weak or inadequate.

On the other end of the spectrum, Lamar Jackson had the lowest velocity at just 49 MPH, tying with Quinton Flowers. Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta and Luke Falk all posted an underwhelming 52 MPH.

 

The 'other' shocker is Lamar Jackson with such a low velocity rating.

Baker has a serious gun, he clicked on over 70% of his passes last night and had a couple of WR drops.

Can you imagine if/when he starts connecting with Callaway on those go-routes?

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3 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

If anyone is surprised by the strength and arm talent of Mayfield, I distinctly recall this from the pre-draft process that made me raise an eyebrow.

Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield top QB velocity during combine throwing session

The 'other' shocker is Lamar Jackson with such a low velocity rating.

Baker has a serious gun, he clicked on over 70% of his passes last night and had a couple of WR drops.

Can you imagine if/when he starts connecting with Callaway on those go-routes?

If only he had some practice with the 1s......:oldunsure:

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 Cleveland Browns -

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