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6 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Freddie is not going to last with that attitude.

?

6 hours ago, Tecumseh said:

What did he do?

Yeah,  what?

Here is the PC.  HC Freddie Kitchens at the podium

He takes the blame for the play calling but just look at the WRs to the right of the play.

OBJ is in bracket coverage to the left, he is covered and both Donald and Fowler are closing down forcing him to the left and just look at those numbnutz who can't get any separation.  Baker had no chance and Freddie took blame for poor execution from the two WRs and the TE who couldn't get any separation.

LOOK >>>    OBJ bracketed and 3 guys on the other side near each other with no chance... Chubb far off to the left

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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30 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Has the unrealistic optimism of the season been officially shut down yet? From what I am reading, the offensive line has been, well, offensive and needs to be fixed before the team can go anywhere.

I think the people that keep saying this have no idea what they're talking about. The OL was a problem last year. Then the team schemed around it and all of a sudden it wasn't a problem anymore. The OL is not a problem. It's not great; probably not even good. But it's fine. Baker has plenty of time to make plays. He's just not. The problems are in some order - QB, HC, and OC. Baker does not trust what he is seeing and instead of stepping up in the pocket like he did in similar situations late last year he keeps drifting right.

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18 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

1-2 wasn’t unexpected after they dropped game one to Tennessee.  

IF they can steal game four in Baltimore, they are very much still in it.  a lot needs to go their way though.  

I think I said at the beginning of the season this team just needs to get to the bye 3-3. But I can't think of any logical reason we can win next week. Then we go to 3-0 San Fran off their bye on MNF. This offense wasn't a mess week 1 because of lack of August reps. It was a mess because it's just that - a mess. And it's no different now than it was then.

At this point I'm expecting 1-4 and if that comes to fruition I'm very curious what sorta effort we get (especially from the defense) on a short week in front of the bye vs. Seattle in front of what would be a very anxious and irritated crowd.

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IMO, there were enough replays during the game last night, coupled with easily being able to see LAR consistently getting pressure bringing only their front 4, to take Baker out of the main cross hairs of what's really wrong with the offense.  I'm not saying he's playing great football.  He's been inaccurate with happy feet at times, doesn't look all that comfortable, etc.  

Freddie's explanation of why he didn't challenge the PI makes no sense and that's on top of taking 2 time outs to the podium for a post game snack.  WTF wants to go 3rd and 9 when you can be 2nd and 9 when the risk is simply a time out on what might be the last time you have the ball?  Then run a draw on 4th and 9....almost as if he thought it really was 3rd and 9. 

The last drive really put a major ding on Freddie.  The play calling, formations and personnel package (I'm pretty sure that should not be plural), on the last 4 downs was beyond abysmal.  Zero creativity with 2 time outs.  No draws, but Chubb split out wide where he is a non-factor.  He's absolutely right in that he needs to do a better job.  That was trash.  

Again, just my opinion after sleeping on this L.

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9 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

?

Yeah,  what?

Here is the PC.  HC Freddie Kitchens at the podium

He takes the blame for the play calling but just look at the WRs to the right of the play.

OBJ is in bracket coverage to the left, he is covered and both Donald and Fowler are closing down forcing him to the left and just look at those numbnutz who can't get any separation.  Baker had no chance and Freddie took blame for poor execution from the two WRs and the TE who couldn't get any separation.

LOOK >>>    OBJ bracketed and 3 guys on the other side near each other with no chance... Chubb far off to the left

Same play? Don't think it is but still needs to be a TD, would have been last year. https://twitter.com/Zip_30/status/1176090388597264385

Here's the other one I have a pretty big problem with, this is pretty close to throwing a flea flicker out of your own endzone, not quite as bad but close https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1175971891795959809

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7 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

IMO, there were enough replays during the game last night, coupled with easily being able to see LAR consistently getting pressure bringing only their front 4, to take Baker out of the main cross hairs of what's really wrong with the offense.  I'm not saying he's playing great football.  He's been inaccurate with happy feet at times, doesn't look all that comfortable, etc.  

Freddie's explanation of why he didn't challenge the PI makes no sense and that's on top of taking 2 time outs to the podium for a post game snack.  WTF wants to go 3rd and 9 when you can be 2nd and 9 when the risk is simply a time out on what might be the last time you have the ball?  Then run a draw on 4th and 9....almost as if he thought it really was 3rd and 9. 

The last drive really put a major ding on Freddie.  The play calling, formations and personnel package (I'm pretty sure that should not be plural), on the last 4 downs was beyond abysmal.  Zero creativity with 2 time outs.  No draws, but Chubb split out wide where he is a non-factor.  He's absolutely right in that he needs to do a better job.  That was trash.  

Again, just my opinion after sleeping on this L.

1. On Baker - he is dancing too much in the pocket as was pointed out last night. Doesn't look comfortable, probably not getting the looks he's expecting, defense shifting at the snap to mess with him, etc. That said, he's year 2 and I expect a certain degree of that as teams scheme against him. I think he can overcome it but it needs to happen soon or we're in for a long year. Play calling isn't helping him, see my second link above, wtf Freddie?

2. Freddie's PI call - don't really have a problem with it either way. Has much bigger issues IMO.

3. Last drive - 100% agree. Every week Freddie is saying he needs to put the team in better positions and call better plays. Yea, we know, how's about you do it? That was almost criminal on the goal line with the game on the line. He should take the blame for it.

4. When it was announced our starting secondary was out against the Rams I was :eek:. That defense played it's ### off and should get credit for keeping that game close. They played great IMO.

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

Last drive - 100% agree. Every week Freddie is saying he needs to put the team in better positions and call better plays. Yea, we know, how's about you do it? That was almost criminal on the goal line with the game on the line. He should take the blame for it.

It wasn't just the last drive. It's the whole game. There is zero cohesiveness. It's a disjointed mess. There is no sequencing, it's just ehhh this play sounds good.  It's the exact opposite of what he did last year.

1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

When it was announced our starting secondary was out against the Rams I was :eek:. That defense played it's ### off and should get credit for keeping that game close. They played great IMO.

It went better than I thought it would, but we have depth in the back 7. We can afford some attrition back there; we just can't up front. The only spot I was real worried about was Burris instead of Randall and that turned out okay. Carrie and Mitchell showed last year they're capable, Murray's fine as long as you don't demand too much, and while he just missed his big play opp Mack Wilson built off his well earned July/August reputation. The only actual problem was Whitehead instead of Burnett.

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16 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Same play? Don't think it is but still needs to be a TD, would have been last year. https://twitter.com/Zip_30/status/1176090388597264385

Here's the other one I have a pretty big problem with, this is pretty close to throwing a flea flicker out of your own endzone, not quite as bad but close https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1175971891795959809

Thanks for the links.  I didn't realize last night that he had Jarvis there.

Your second link is happening more than once a game.  I was irate when I saw that replay last night.  That's coaching.

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11 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

4. When it was announced our starting secondary was out against the Rams I was :eek:. That defense played it's ### off and should get credit for keeping that game close. They played great IMO.

Good call.  I'm too negative after losses....I was very pleased with the defense overall.  

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11 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Same play? Don't think it is but still needs to be a TD, would have been last year. https://twitter.com/Zip_30/status/1176090388597264385

Here's the other one I have a pretty big problem with, this is pretty close to throwing a flea flicker out of your own endzone, not quite as bad but close https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1175971891795959809

It is the same play.  The screenshot I linked shows what Baker sees as he's making his decision.  The frozen shot it shows the DB directly in front of Jarvis but even in your clip take a look AT THE MOMENT Baker is delivering the ball.  Jarvis has not separated from the DB, OBJ has his back turned and has the safety so he's out of the picture as is Chubb.  The WR at the hash has zero separation.  The TE looked like had split the seem, he had beaten the CB but the safety closed the gap and got over the top of the throw.

It is easy to see with 20/20 and even Baker has admitted he will have nightmares about not throwing to Jarvis but its a bang-bang and the TE flatened out his route instead of running out so the DB caught up with him as Baker delivered the ball.

The second one is VERY-MISLEADING from the angle of those shots.  It doesn't show Baker who had been sacked by the time those go-routes had a chance.  It was a truly awful call by Freddie in that case but those angles don't show Baker.  I remember that specific call very well and I was furious he had three guys running deep routes considering the pressure was not allowing those routes.

And the offensive line stat showing Baker is getting the most time to throw are one of the worst examples of misleading information.

Baker begins to scramble and buys time but he's scrambling horizontally and cutting the field in half.  He also isn't going with his first-quick read so that means he is wanting/expecting/needing his WRs to adjust and/or come back to him so he inevitably scrambles all the way to the far hash and overthrows or tries to force it and gets picked.  It adds up to a very long play but its a garbage stat because he can't throw for most of that time an when he's forced to throw it is a poor option.

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29 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I'm worried how they're going to respond if the offense doesn't remove its head from its ### - like, now.

Thought about this too but good teams don't have let downs because one side of the ball isn't performing up to expectations. I look at all the Superbowl teams that won with defense and and offense that was predicated on "just don't lose the game". Not saying our D is that caliber but it's pretty good and moreover, it's a hill this team has to climb to become a winner. One side picking up the other until they get up to speed. How many times have you seen one side of the ball step up their game because the other side is carrying the load? I can see this team doing that.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

I'm worried how they're going to respond if the offense doesn't remove its head from its ### - like, now.

Warren Sharp‏Verified account @SharpFootball 12h12 hours ago

Apart from the condensed set on 2nd down (sprint-right), every single play: 11 personnel Empty sets Chubb always on the left No motion 5-man protections Baker predictably under pressure No pick/rubs, just hoping a WR runs open & Baker has time. Not ideal.

---------------------------------

11 (personnel grouping with 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs) is the NFL standard for 29 of 32 teams.  We are 'kinda' stuck right now in that we don't have any viable NFL starting TEs to go with 12 (1 RB, 2 TEs, 2 WRs) as much as we did last year and with great success. 

Last year we had Fells who was a good in-line blocking TE who could 'rarely/occasionally' help as a receiver (see Baker's first NFL TD and  his recent TD with his new team).  When Njuko is healthy it will help but right now we're limited in what sort of personnel groupings make sense but Warren Sharp is right to point out how Chubb lines up to the left side and we have limited protections with no picks or rubs which is the NFL standard for most teams.

It seems Freddie is learning on the job.  He's gradually fixing issues from the first and second games so he'll probably eventually get around to fixing this but I'd like to see him get ahead of other team instead of reacting.  We have Todd Monken for goodness sakes.  Let him call the plays while the bullets are  flying/clock is ticking but when they have time have them both work out the game plan and come up with something more creative.  I'm sure they have the plays but even if we're limited in personnel to certain groupings we can be much more creative.  

Sean  McVay burned us with rubs/picks coming out of halftime with Cooper Kupp and crossed up Wilk's 6 wide front by running up the middle.  

Just good smart football.  We are limited but we can be more creative.

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

When it was announced our starting secondary was out against the Rams I was :eek:. That defense played it's ### off and should get credit for keeping that game close. They played great IMO.

Tom Withers‏Verified account @twithersAP

Consider that #Browns claimed S Juston Burris on Friday and he played the entire game. Credit to Steve Wilks for having his unit ready.

8:40 AM - 23 Sep 2019

------------------------------------

Amazing job by Wilks.

EDIT to add  THIS!

-----------------------------

Tom Withers‏Verified account @twithersAP 30m30 minutes ago

Worried about Kitchens taking on too much as rookie coach, balancing all other duties along with play-calling. He’s new to this. It will all take time. #Browns

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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Kitchens was horrible.  Stop running 5 wide sets inside the 10 already, jesus.  

Not challenging the PI was idiotic.  Were you waiting for later or something?

Compared to Mcvay we were running a tecmo bowl offense.  Not even tecmo super bowl, I am talking the original with 4 plays.   Zero creativity.  

Edited by ghostguy123
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2 minutes ago, daveR said:

Quite a chess match last night.  Good football!

I guess they decided 11 formation gave them their best shot.  I dunno.  Too much pressure, IMO.  

Pretty good result given the injuries / match-up.  

The Browns hung with a very good Rams team.   The Browns have equal talent to the Rams and that's half the battle.  Play calling was the difference.  

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2 hours ago, beer 30 said:

1. On Baker - he is dancing too much in the pocket as was pointed out last night. Doesn't look comfortable, probably not getting the looks he's expecting, defense shifting at the snap to mess with him, etc. That said, he's year 2 and I expect a certain degree of that as teams scheme against him. I think he can overcome it but it needs to happen soon or we're in for a long year. Play calling isn't helping him, see my second link above, wtf Freddie?

2. Freddie's PI call - don't really have a problem with it either way. Has much bigger issues IMO.

3. Last drive - 100% agree. Every week Freddie is saying he needs to put the team in better positions and call better plays. Yea, we know, how's about you do it? That was almost criminal on the goal line with the game on the line. He should take the blame for it.

4. When it was announced our starting secondary was out against the Rams I was :eek:. That defense played it's ### off and should get credit for keeping that game close. They played great IMO.

I have been listening to Bill O'Brien say this for 6 years. Well, yesterday may have been the first time he really did a much better job with play calling. He actually called a flea flicker on 3rd and 1, and then on 2nd and longer than 7, in 17 chances, he called a pass play everytime. Deshaun Watson was 13 of 14 on those downs. O'Brien is known for running the ball on 2nd and long so that 3rd is more manageable. He broke that tendency yesterday.

So there is hope, Browns' fans, there is hope.

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Thought about this too but good teams don't have let downs because one side of the ball isn't performing up to expectations. I look at all the Superbowl teams that won with defense and and offense that was predicated on "just don't lose the game". Not saying our D is that caliber but it's pretty good and moreover, it's a hill this team has to climb to become a winner. One side picking up the other until they get up to speed. How many times have you seen one side of the ball step up their game because the other side is carrying the load? I can see this team doing that.

Step one - be a good team. We aren't.

Given the undisciplined nature of the first three games I have no confidence in the defense keeping it together if the losses keep piling up unless the offense shows a pulse, which there's no reason to believe will happen right now.

Edited by MAC_32
version one was poorly written
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49 minutes ago, daveR said:

Quite a chess match last night.  Good football!

I guess they decided 11 formation gave them their best shot.  I dunno.  Too much pressure, IMO.  

Pretty good result given the injuries / match-up.  

That's what it looked like to me too. NFL game's are often lost the Tuesday before. And this one was lost on Tuesday. The Rams are built to stop 11 personnel. We played right into their hands.

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1 hour ago, daveR said:

I guess they decided 11 formation gave them their best shot.  I dunno.

27 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The Rams are built to stop 11 personnel. We played right into their hands.

1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

11 (personnel grouping with 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs) is the NFL standard for 29 of 32 teams.  We are 'kinda' stuck right now in that we don't have any viable NFL starting TEs to go with 12 (1 RB, 2 TEs, 2 WRs) as much as we did last year and with great success.

I do agree with Bracie, I think their hands were tied based on the personnel they had available.  With Higgins and Njoku out, not many more viable WRs past Beckham/Landry.  Baker has some familiarity with Ratley, so that made some sense.  But no one else really.  The new TEs produced a little, but they needed blocking TEs and not receiving TEs - which is all they have after Njoku.

I do think there could have been some more creativity by the coaching staff.  The 11 personnel, when run with the quick set, kept the Rams on their heels a few times.  Once CLE went back to the shotgun, they lost all momentum.  This offense still doesn't have an identity.  Most fans think we know what it is - a quick strike, RPO team.  But it's like the OC and HC think they are a go long team.  It just doesn't jive.  Kitchens is learning on the job, and I'm fine with that...but he needs to know what's working and what isn't, then make some good adjustments moving forward. 

I didn't expect them to beat the Rams, but I was pleasantly surprised they hung with them and had the chance to pull an upset in the final seconds - even after some of the poor play calling/coaching earlier in the game.  Kudos to Wilks and the defense for keeping them in this game.

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14 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

That's what it looked like to me too. NFL game's are often lost the Tuesday before. And this one was lost on Tuesday. The Rams are built to stop 11 personnel. We played right into their hands.

True.

But also 11 personnel isn't necessarily the problem.  It's the formations and plays with that personnel.  

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42 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Step one - be a good team. We aren't.

Given the undisciplined nature of the first three games I have no confidence in the defense keeping it together if the losses keep piling up unless the offense shows a pulse, which there's no reason to believe will happen right now.

Guess we'll agree to disagree then. Freddie said the defense was ahead of the offense weeks ago and it's born out. When, not if, the offense catches up this team will dominate. This division is ours for the taking. I'm looking at next week as a real tell on how they are going to play out the year. I think they post a win and maybe a big one. I think the defense shuts Lamar down and the offense steps up and starts playing like a cohesive unit. Not trying to pick a fight MAC, I'm just more optimistic maybe? I don't know, I just think after all of the last three weeks we are probably about where everyone figured we would be. the difference between 1-2 and 2-1 isn't that huge in this league and I think this team still has a lot of upside.

The penalties bother the #### out of me, I want to scream every time they get dinged for offsides, illegal formation, movement, whatever. That bothers me a lot more than some of this other stuff because it's just stupid.

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6 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

Has the unrealistic optimism of the season been officially shut down yet? From what I am reading, the offensive line has been, well, offensive and needs to be fixed before the team can go anywhere.

Easily could still be a 9-10 win team.  Can't say that about every team in the league.  I certainly don't want to peak in September as a football team and the schedule opens up in a month or so (which includes 5 winnable division games).  I know this came up a week or two ago as well.  I guess you'd have to define what the "unrealistic optimism" was from your perspective. 

Edited by Bobcat10
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Love this quote from Ratley. Take ownership even if it isn't on you.

"That’s the difference between players like Odell [who] just makes those plays when they need to be made. That’s the difference between having $18 million a year, $22 million a year and f***ing what I make. I [gotta] make those plays no matter what.” - #Browns WR Damion Ratley

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1175999482573574149

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The Rams are a real good team. Everybody's offense looks bad against a healthy Rams defensive unit. Think about it: You guys scored as many points as New England did last year in the Super Bowl.

That's just an outsider.

But Baker looks awful still, when thought of in isolation. 

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27 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Guess we'll agree to disagree then. Freddie said the defense was ahead of the offense weeks ago and it's born out. When, not if, the offense catches up this team will dominate. This division is ours for the taking. I'm looking at next week as a real tell on how they are going to play out the year. I think they post a win and maybe a big one. I think the defense shuts Lamar down and the offense steps up and starts playing like a cohesive unit. Not trying to pick a fight MAC, I'm just more optimistic maybe? I don't know, I just think after all of the last three weeks we are probably about where everyone figured we would be. the difference between 1-2 and 2-1 isn't that huge in this league and I think this team still has a lot of upside.

The penalties bother the #### out of me, I want to scream every time they get dinged for offsides, illegal formation, movement, whatever. That bothers me a lot more than some of this other stuff because it's just stupid.

By a long shot. I'll be thrilled to be wrong, but I think we get waxed this week. I think our personnel matches up poorly vs. the Ravens and they are much better coached.

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48 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Love this quote from Ratley. Take ownership even if it isn't on you.

"That’s the difference between players like Odell [who] just makes those plays when they need to be made. That’s the difference between having $18 million a year, $22 million a year and f***ing what I make. I [gotta] make those plays no matter what.” - #Browns WR Damion Ratley

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1175999482573574149

One could take that a few different ways without the context.  But that's what I'd expect from a Ruiter tweet.    :stirspot:

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2 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

One could take that a few different ways without the context.  But that's what I'd expect from a Ruiter tweet.    :stirspot:

I'm sure their replacements would be equally repugnant, but what I would give for that trifecta of suck that is the Browns beat to be loaded into a cannon and blasted into the ####### lake.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

By a long shot. I'll be thrilled to be wrong, but I think we get waxed this week. I think our personnel matches up poorly vs. the Ravens and they are much better coached.

Wilks came up with a plan to stifle the Rams with 'literally' guys pulled off the street starting when every single starter was out injured.  The Ravens pushed in all of their chips and built around Lamar and that offense, they even drafted a QB who can't throw to go with RG III and the Ingram signing was a brilliant addition along with Hollywood but they are operating at a net loss on D.

Baker showed last year that he can burn them but he is part of the problem this year.  

This is an excellent breakdown of issues facing the team, many things that people have mentioned in this thread.  Only posting the first two paragraphs but this is well worth the read.

Freddie Kitchens and Baker Mayfield are the problems on offense and the Browns lost for it

Quote

 

Through three games, the Cleveland Browns offense has looked overwhelmed, unprepared, simplistic and regressive...

...It starts with Freddie Kitchens and the design of the offense. Beyond some awful play calls including a 4th-and-9 draw that will go down in Browns playcalling infamy along side such abysmal callsas the Hue Jackson flea flicker inside his own five yard line and the Lawrence Vickers full back pass, the Browns personnel groups put them at a disadvantage.

Demetrius Harris had his best game with the Browns, but Pharaoh Brown is unplayable and they are counting on him far too often. Kitchens doesn't look like a coach who trust his players. He certainly didn't trust Mayfield down the stretch against the Los Angeles Rams.
Part of it he's fighting against his own DNA as a coach as is Todd Monken, being heavily influenced by Bruce Arians, who has always been happy to put his quarterback in harm's way for the sake of big plays down the field. He has to adapt to his quarterback and the talent on offense, because not only is Mayfield getting hit and playing poorly, the big plays aren't there either...

 

Go to the link for the full read.

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16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Wilks came up with a plan to stifle the Rams with 'literally' guys pulled off the street starting when every single starter was out injured.  The Ravens pushed in all of their chips and built around Lamar and that offense, they even drafted a QB who can't throw to go with RG III and the Ingram signing was a brilliant addition along with Hollywood but they are operating at a net loss on D.

Credit where credit is due to Wilks for last night. This team is built to defend 11 personnel though. A stout line and a nickel base are the ingredients to beat many teams as currently constructed in this league. Not heavy set Baltimore though. My distaste of Jamie Collins is well documented, but even in an ideal world we're replacing him and Jabrill Peppers this week with Morgan Burnett and some combination of Jermaine Whitehead and Eric Murray. We sacrificed size for speed this offseason. This is one of those matchups in which it gets exploited, especially since Genard Avery went Houdini sometime between the end of last season and now. This is the sort of matchup I figured he'd be featured, but if he can't even get on the field in other matchups I can't imagine that changes at all this week.

16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Baker showed last year that he can burn them but he is part of the problem this year.  

At this point our basis of comparison is not Baker week 17 in 2018. It's Baker weeks 1-3 in 2019. I had confidence in last year's version of Baker competing with this defense. Overcoming the deficiencies we have matching up with them on defense. I have zero confidence in this year's version. Right now anyway. And you're right - that link does a good job summarizing a lot of the things we're talking about that's wrong with this offense.

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If your life were at stake, how many of you guys would have bet on the Browns and all their injuries, going into Sunday night.  They had a reasonable shot at winning that game -- played 'em even.  That's a decent result, IMO.  The sole advantage I saw going in was a prime time home game; a big emotional edge.  (To be honest, I thought out DL might wreak havoc, but they didn't.)

Ever notice how the final score changes everyone's attitude?  If we had won, everyone would be pointing out the things that were done well, but it's a loss so Freddie's tenure is called into question.  120+ plays & the comments center around < 10.  

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Freddie Kitchens, plain and simple. 

I am echoing what most in the media have been reporting all day, social and print media.

-The 4th and 9 Draw play in the 4th

-4 passes on 1st and goal chance to tie the game late

-Most penalized team in the NFL. 

Can he be fired after Week 3? Is there any precedence on the Browns to do that?   

I continue to feel for the fan base in Cleveland.

Sincerely,

South Beach

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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17 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

While the o-line has issues and Mayfield seems to be regressing a little already, Kitchens is just awful and I have to think the Browns are already regretting making that clown the head coach.  

A guy with no head coaching experience at any level, was a coordinator for half a season, and is now doing both?  What could go wrong?

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Freddie Kitchens, plain and simple. 

I am echoing what most in the media have been reporting all day, social and print media.

-The 4th and 9 Draw play in the 4th

-4 passes on 1st and goal chance to tie the game late

-Most penalized team in the NFL. 

Can he be fired after Week 3? Is there any precedence on the Browns to do that?   

I continue to feel for the fan base in Cleveland.

Sincerely,

South Beach

Freddie will be fine.  Feel free to quote me.

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13 hours ago, daveR said:

Freddie will be fine.  Feel free to quote me.

I agree with you.  There was always going to be a learning curve.  He proved last year he could get this team rolling.  I think they need to get back to that and move away from some of the Air Raid stuff.  Everyone can see Baker doesn't look comfortable in the pocket as he's quick to abandon it.  I expect Freddie to go back to Baker et al and talk to them about what works and what doesn't - which should lead the team back to their winning ways.

Freddie just needs a little time.  The Browns FO didn't run Huey off for over two seasons, why should they run Freddie off after just 3 games?

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14 minutes ago, Peak said:

I agree with you.  There was always going to be a learning curve.  He proved last year he could get this team rolling.  I think they need to get back to that and move away from some of the Air Raid stuff.  Everyone can see Baker doesn't look comfortable in the pocket as he's quick to abandon it.  I expect Freddie to go back to Baker et al and talk to them about what works and what doesn't - which should lead the team back to their winning ways.

Freddie just needs a little time.  The Browns FO didn't run Huey off for over two seasons, why should they run Freddie off after just 3 games?

If Dorsey had his way he'd have whacked Hue day one. He bet on him hanging himself quickly, which he did spectacularly.

Yes, Freddie will get rope, but he's done nothing since week 1 to lead me to believe he's anywhere close to actually making adjustments that will work. Week 1 was a disjointed mess. Week 2 was a disjointed mess in disguise because we were playing against a minor league team. And week 3 was a disjointed mess. It'd be foolish to expect week 4 is anything less than another disjointed mess. Against this opponent? Curb stomping.

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Yes, Freddie will get rope, but he's done nothing since week 1 to lead me to believe he's anywhere close to actually making adjustments that will work. Week 1 was a disjointed mess. Week 2 was a disjointed mess in disguise because we were playing against a minor league team. And week 3 was a disjointed mess. It'd be foolish to expect week 4 is anything less than another disjointed mess. Against this opponent? Curb stomping.

I can understand that view.  I think Dorsey will be in his ear to make adjustments somewhere.  I think there's an eye on this week's game because of the opponent and the situation.  Winner can claim 1st place in the division.  It's the team's opportunity to "right the ship" so to speak.  I'm sure Dorsey is touting that message, and Freddie will be parroting it.  This is the game I'd like to see them take that unconventional step like last year.  Come out playing backyard football again and dare the other team to stop them.  

Part of me is hoping that the first 3 games were them playing "rope a dope" and giving other teams play designs to study as a falsehood.  Then they would come out in their first division game as an entirely different team and put the NFL on notice that what you see isn't always what you get.  

Or maybe I've been watching too many movies lately.......Time for the "Annexation of Puerto Rico" play!

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5 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I hope Freddie will be fine but so far he has been very terrible.  Very.

To be expected given the circumstances.  Why not have just hired the guy to be the offensive coordinator is beyond me.

If you expected him to grow into a coach then you could not make this move. Because then he leaves to coach someone else after 2019.

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16 hours ago, daveR said:

If your life were at stake, how many of you guys would have bet on the Browns and all their injuries, going into Sunday night.  They had a reasonable shot at winning that game -- played 'em even.  That's a decent result, IMO.  The sole advantage I saw going in was a prime time home game; a big emotional edge.  (To be honest, I thought out DL might wreak havoc, but they didn't.)

Ever notice how the final score changes everyone's attitude?  If we had won, everyone would be pointing out the things that were done well, but it's a loss so Freddie's tenure is called into question.  120+ plays & the comments center around < 10.  

Because in football close games are typically decided by 4, 5, 6 plays. Sometimes 1 or 2.

 

As an outsider looking in. The Browns OL has been really rough, and Baker looks like a confused and jittery QB right now. He is not making concise reads, sometimes holding the ball too long, patting too much. He just look uncomfortable and the entire offense seems to have little rhythm. 

I really liked what I saw last year with Mayfield. I have not seen the same player yet from 2018. If he is not right.......it all will not work. And if you can't block it all goes up in flames.

Baltimore is a great litmus test. They are down Jimmy Smith in the secondary so the Browns need to exploit that. But they must run the football to have any shot so they can set up play action. The Ravens are licking their chops right now.

Edited by Todem
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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If you expected him to grow into a coach then you could not make this move. Because then he leaves to coach someone else after 2019.

That, and forced marriages suck.  It would have limited our choices at HC because of that even with the sexy look the Browns job had.

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3 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If you expected him to grow into a coach then you could not make this move. Because then he leaves to coach someone else after 2019.

Wasn't there a scenario bandied about where Bruce Arians would be the 'bridge" couch for a couple of years with Freddie learning the ropes under and succeed him?

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