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19 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

but with Landry back his realistic target upside isn't big unless Kareem gets dinged in-game.

 

9 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Yeah, Landry is back.  I think this 'could' be a bigger thing than people realize.

Is he really though? I gotta think he'll be limited and not just game plan-wise but physically. Might be wrong, hoping I am but his first practice is today. Going to be asking a lot methinks.

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

 

Is he really though? I gotta think he'll be limited and not just game plan-wise but physically. Might be wrong, hoping I am but his first practice is today. Going to be asking a lot methinks.

He's not active.  He's cleared to practice.  We have 21 days to declare him active or place him on IR for the year.  

We have up until 4:00 PM Sunday to activate him IF he is able this week.  

Have to think they were targeting the Bronco game on Thursday Night but with the Chubbs news....  I dunno...

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5 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Chubb just listed as OUT for the game :(

does this maybe explain why Chubb wasn’t in for the second to last possession last week against the Chargers?

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On 10/15/2021 at 5:57 PM, amnesiac said:

does this maybe explain why Chubb wasn’t in for the second to last possession last week against the Chargers?

Probably has something to do with it, they said it happened late in the game.

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54 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Probably has something to do with it, they said it happened late in the game.

Yeah I remember being really confused when they had Hunt in there.  Chubb is really more suited to salt the game away imo.  

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ARI without HC today

Cardinals’ HC Kliff Kingsbury, who has had multiple positive COVID tests on back-to-back days and will miss today’s game vs. the Browns, will need two negative COVID tests 24 hours apart, meaning the earliest he now could return to work is Tuesday. But Kingsburgy “feels great”.

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On 10/11/2021 at 9:02 PM, amnesiac said:

Browns are going to finish second to Baltimore best case scenario.  

 

On 10/12/2021 at 7:26 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

One thing I look forward to after a close loss on the road against a quality opponent when we were devastated by injuries and nothing can be gleaned is the even-keeled Brown fan reactions that are NEVER over reactions but good sound quality football analysis.  

Ahh, takes sip of coffee and  revels in the magna opus of refined pure football minds.:coffee:


Browns are going to finish the day in third place or tied for last place. 
 

Maybe smell that coffee and wake up.  

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Cool, so we're back to eating our young again. Just like 4-5 years ago except with a better coach :thumbup:

Man that was a ####show yesterday. Glad Gillum played well :shrug: about all I got.

PS - lets go for so more 4th downs, I love that move :lmao:

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2 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Cool, so we're back to eating our young again. Just like 4-5 years ago except with a better coach :thumbup:

Man that was a ####show yesterday. Glad Gillum played well :shrug: about all I got.

PS - lets go for so more 4th downs, I love that move :lmao: Edit to add 6/15 on the year

 

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2 hours ago, TampaMike19 said:

Indirectly he did. His bloated salary is costing the team in building up precious depth or value players lol 

:no:

The team entered the season (arguably) without any meaningful holes in the starting lineup and with developmental depth in several key areas. It's almost impossible to fortify every position - nature of the beast in the NFL though. That's a feature; not a bug.

OBJ is just low hanging fruit for the under-informed to lazily take swings at while the issues through the first 6 weeks of the season are way more complex than that. 

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Well this has shaped up to be a disappointing season.

I really do hate blaming refs for losses, but I think they cost us the Charges game.

They didnt cost us the game yesterday but man, we sure do get the short end of the ####ty call stick way more often than we should.

Everyone is hurt.  Yesterday was going to be an almost impossible win.  Now more guys either hurt or hurt worse.

Kinda sad.  There was potential here before all the injuries.

And wow, our defense is...........bad.

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5 hours ago, The Gator said:

John Kelly signed to the active roster. 
 

i know the offense is a mess, but with a stash in deeper leagues?

I mean, he is the primary backup now. The goal is for him not to be in a week, but calf injuries have a tendency to linger. 

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22 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Pretty much done here, correct?

We can start talking draft position in another week or so yea?

Ha! I'm prescient. Case Keenum just named starter

Depends if Baker's out for 6 weeks or if he's doing season ending surgery now. The latter and it's fork time. The former and the wildcard is still in play if we win tomorrow.

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11 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Depends if Baker's out for 6 weeks or if he's doing season ending surgery now. The latter and it's fork time. The former and the wildcard is still in play if we win tomorrow.

agree.  they have some decisions to make.  

if they delay surgery to see if they can make the wildcard spot, that could affect his recovery and timeline for returning next year.

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20 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Depends if Baker's out for 6 weeks or if he's doing season ending surgery now. The latter and it's fork time. The former and the wildcard is still in play if we win tomorrow.

Hearing similar murmurs from other sources.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

IG: JosinaAnderson@JosinaAnderson

It was floating this morning that #Browns QB Baker Mayfield was not going to play even after the confidence he expressed to the media that he would. My understanding is Mayfield is dealing w/ more than just a torn labrum & that became more prevalent this am too per league source.

------------------------------------------------------------

He wasn't seeking a 2nd source in order to not play.  He was grasping at straws.

Case Keenum sucks = season ender

The only possible way we can compete to win playoff games is with a QB.  Someone who consistently is able to give top 10 to 15 and we had that with Baker.  Case Keenum and guys like Cam Newton aren't playoff winning caliber NFL QBs.  

If Baker can't go or only half-strength the rest of the year then its time to call in the dogs and piss on the fire...

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Wow. That's a really, really tough blow. This Mayfield injury sounds bad. Sorry, guys. I don't know if Keenum is a guy that can lead you where you want to go. Cam could probably serve as a threat when Chubb and Hunt get back and you could run a constant read option attack, but that's sort of a long shot to even get him to Cleveland and to learn a new playbook so quickly.

Not good.

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7 hours ago, rockaction said:

Wow. That's a really, really tough blow. This Mayfield injury sounds bad. Sorry, guys. I don't know if Keenum is a guy that can lead you where you want to go. Cam could probably serve as a threat when Chubb and Hunt get back and you could run a constant read option attack, but that's sort of a long shot to even get him to Cleveland and to learn a new playbook so quickly.

Not good.

CLE fan living in the Carolina's for the last 14 years. Cam isn't the answer. He was done when the Panthers let him go, New England took a shot but he can't throw. His shoulder is worse than Baker's and it's his throwing shoulder.

Keenum is the guy going forward. He stands a chance if they can protect him and we et some assets back. Sounds like Wills is going to give it a go, for how long we'll see. Landry is active so that's a big help, lack of RB troubles me but next man up. At some point if the Brown's want to take the next step, they gotta figure out how to man up and win these kinda games. Looking square at you defense, they need to bow up and have a game. DEN is supposed to be the "get better" team this year (they make everyone look better). Be nice to see the D pitch a shutout tonight or create 3-4 turnovers to help the O.

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If the rest of the team was healthy then the downgrade to Keenum wouldn't be good, but I still think playoffs would be on the table.

OBJ out and sucking, Landy coming off injury, Hunt out who knows how long, same with Chubb, line banged up, D looks average at best.

This all projects out to like 7-10

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I think the team plays better when OBJ isn't on the field.  I don't think they'll miss him too much.  I have to think it actually helps Keenum in that he has more time/familiarity with the backups.  Landry could be a nice safety blanket over the middle, especially if the weather is crap.  Keenum has run Stefanski's offense before and done well, so I'm not too much doom and gloom.  I think it comes down to defense tonight - whichever side wins the TO battle will win the game.  ST may also play a little bit into this, and I'd give CLE the edge on ST.

Either way, it'll be a typical Thurs Night Football game.

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We need to shut Baker down NOW.  

Baker Mayfield needs 4-6 months to recover from shoulder surgery if it doesn’t get worse, surgeon says; Fracture is non-displaced 

Quote

... Dr. Brian Schulz, M.D., sports medicine specialist and orthopedic surgeon at Cedars-Sinai Kerlan-Jobe Institute  ... Every time the shoulder pops out, “you can have a new injury or worsening of the pre-existing injury,’’ which could mean a more invasive surgery... have the surgery now and start the recovery process for next season. That would have him back in full football activity by about April — the start of the offseason program

That is the BEST CASE scenario right now where he WON'T dislocate the shoulder again causing more damage and where he can strengthen his shoulder muscles so that going forward he won't have it keep popping out every game causing more-and-more damage.   Having surgery now is the BEST medical case so he'll be ready by April.  Here's the worst case.

Quote

— providing he doesn’t need bone repair. If he does, it would require pins or screws, or possibly even a bone graft if it got bad enough...The problem with such pop-outs, he said, is that you’re potentially creating new injuries each time, and some can be very serious...“Every time it comes out you can actually lose some of the (glenoid) bone. If that happens multiple times, you can lose enough to have a smaller glenoid than what you would need for stability.’’ ... further damaging the shoulder and needing a more aggressive procedure with a longer recovery time. ..

Not getting the surgery now it risking his career.  He tore his shoulder, bone is fractured and 'frayed' the shoulder.  For anyone hoping he'll be ready for the Steelers.

Mayfield told Fox Sports’ Jay Glazer Thursday that he plans to face the Steelers, he also said, “I need that fracture to heal for me to get back out there.’’

The fracture won’t be fully healed in 10 days...

If he doesn't get surgery his chance of dislocating his shoulder worsens.

Quote

 

...he’s not going to want to have to deal with his shoulder popping out here and there the rest of his career.’’

He noted that in young people, the recurrence rate of dislocation is very high, even if you’re not playing football.

“There’s been studies in the military where people in their teens and 20s, you’re looking at high 90% of shoulder redislocations,’’ he said.

The problem with such pop-outs, he said, is that you’re potentially creating new injuries each time, and some can be very serious.

 

He won't heal his fracture in ten  days so he won't be ready for the Steelers and if he  plays  the  rest of the year we will be looking a QB with his shoulder popping out every week causing more-and-more damage to his 'frayed' shoulder for the rest of his career.   Pretty easy decision IMHO.

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From what I've heard he was recommended not to return until after the bye. It's then a risk assessment whether to return and get the surgery in winter with the goal of being ready for training camp or shut it down now and just get the surgery. The last part is not new news though. That's been the case since week 2.

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Isn't this why we gave Case like 10 million or whatever?  I get it's not ideal and he's clearly not as good as Baker, but that's why he is the backup.  Let him hopefully get comfortable during the easier part of the schedule and see what happens.  Baker should already have had the surgery.  I hope the team protects him and that he realizes it's for his own good not making this messy in the media.

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10 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Isn't this why we gave Case like 10 million or whatever?  I get it's not ideal and he's clearly not as good as Baker, but that's why he is the backup.  Let him hopefully get comfortable during the easier part of the schedule and see what happens.  Baker should already have had the surgery.  I hope the team protects him and that he realizes it's for his own good not making this messy in the media.

When available, I think devoting significant resources to backup QB is important. The backup's purpose is limited though. He can help us win games, but he is not going to be the reason for the wins. The odds of us winning meaningful games with him is not good. And the odds of us winning multiple meaningful games is remote, at best. 

So if Baker gets the surgery then his season is over and for all intents and purposes so is the teams. I understand the counter argument to that though.

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Dilfer was on 92.3 the fan this morning and stated he played quite a bit with a torn labrum on his non-throwing shoulder and that it's not that uncommon in the NFL.

personally, I think Mayfield should shut it down and get the surgery, but it was interesting to get the perspective of someone who has been through the same situation.

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4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

When available, I think devoting significant resources to backup QB is important. The backup's purpose is limited though. He can help us win games, but he is not going to be the reason for the wins. The odds of us winning meaningful games with him is not good. And the odds of us winning multiple meaningful games is remote, at best. 

So if Baker gets the surgery then his season is over and for all intents and purposes so is the teams. I understand the counter argument to that though.

Probably so.  The defense will ultimately be the determining factor going forward in this scenario.  They start playing better up to expectations we can grind some of games out.

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2 hours ago, amnesiac said:

Dilfer was on 92.3 the fan this morning and stated he played quite a bit with a torn labrum on his non-throwing shoulder and that it's not that uncommon in the NFL.

personally, I think Mayfield should shut it down and get the surgery, but it was interesting to get the perspective of someone who has been through the same situation.

 

I think Dilfer's case was more comparable when Baker first injured his his shoulder. Seem like Baker's injury is now MUCH worse than what Dilfer and others have dealt with after the latest aggravation. Did Dilfer or anyone else play with a torn labrum and a shoulder fracture?

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1 hour ago, LawFitz said:

I think Dilfer's case was more comparable when Baker first injured his his shoulder. Seem like Baker's injury is now MUCH worse than what Dilfer and others have dealt with after the latest aggravation. Did Dilfer or anyone else play with a torn labrum and a shoulder fracture?

This isn't an answer to your question, but the latter likely happened because of the former. This is reality anytime someone tries to play through an injury. Should he return this year that same enhanced injury risk exists too.

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Browns Willing to Pay Mayfield Mid to High $30M Range?

Quote

 

Dan Graziano of ESPN, the Cleveland Browns remain open to extending Baker Mayfield. The deal would be slightly lower than Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills or Dak Prescott of the Dallas Cowboys.

MoreForYouCleveland@MoreForYou_CLE

Per @DanGrazianoESPN

#Browns remain open to extending Baker Mayfield on a long term deal in the mid to high $30m’s per year

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

MoreForYouCleveland@MoreForYou_CLE

He went on to say they’d pay him for the right price, and it won’t be Mahomes or Josh Allen money at this point

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mac Robinson@MacRobinson95

4 years, $148 mil ($37mil/season) with $100 mil guaranteed. Add in the $18.5mil 5th year option and it's a 5 year, $166.5 million dollar deal. I'm absolutely good with that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Agghh.  From everything we saw/read prior to the season, that was NOT the number Baker's team was aiming for.

I think it is the absolute RIGHT number but... agghh we'll see if his team makes the right move and signs it before they overthink themselves.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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14 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

This isn't an answer to your question, but the latter likely happened because of the former. This is reality anytime someone tries to play through an injury. Should he return this year that same enhanced injury risk exists too.

Additionally, there is going to be a greater injury risk moving forward for the rest of his career.  This is not the type of injury that you get surgery and rehab and then you’re “good to go.”  It will always be unstable to a degree.  Which explains why some players decide to play through it.  
 

If this was his throwing shoulder his career would be in deep jeopardy right now.  

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15 hours ago, LawFitz said:

 

I think Dilfer's case was more comparable when Baker first injured his his shoulder. Seem like Baker's injury is now MUCH worse than what Dilfer and others have dealt with after the latest aggravation. Did Dilfer or anyone else play with a torn labrum and a shoulder fracture?

No idea as to the severity of their injuries.  I think his overall point was that you’d be surprised what type and severity of injuries these guys will play through.  Obviously not everything makes it onto the injury report.  

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19 hours ago, LawFitz said:

 

I think Dilfer's case was more comparable when Baker first injured his his shoulder. Seem like Baker's injury is now MUCH worse than what Dilfer and others have dealt with after the latest aggravation. Did Dilfer or anyone else play with a torn labrum and a shoulder fracture?

Not to minimize the injury, but I would suspect that a shoulder fracture may be a little different than a normal fracture that we think of when we hear the word.  I've suffered both a Hill-Sachs injury and a "bony" Bankart injury, both of which are technically shoulder fractures because the bones are, well, fractured, but it's not like someone's arm or leg snapping in half and requiring extensive rehab time.  I'm not a doctor, and I have no idea the severity of Baker's injury, but as someone who's also suffered a handful of other fractures from sports injuries - the shoulder fracture itself was essentially not even noticeable in terms of pain tolerance, etc.  It was only noticeable because it led to future dislocations and bone loss (which I hope does not happen to Baker).

Edited by Steve Tasker
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Baker sounds like he's ready to give it go, Stefanski said he'll get regular snaps. Just all seems stupid to me unless they are just messing PIT. I just don't see how you trot Baker out there now with a broken bone, especially in his shoulder. Just have the surgery and run with Keenam.

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3 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Baker sounds like he's ready to give it go, Stefanski said he'll get regular snaps. Just all seems stupid to me unless they are just messing PIT. I just don't see how you trot Baker out there now with a broken bone, especially in his shoulder. Just have the surgery and run with Keenam.

Mayfield has 100 million reasons to try to keep playing this season.

the way I understand it, the teams can't force medical decisions on the players.

Stefanski could bench him, but he would then risk losing the locker room.

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