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Cleveland Browns (12 Viewers)

Bracie Smathers said:
Just some more fuel for the speculation-fire.

Here are the highest paid TEs in the NFL today.

Jimmy Graham is already on the list based on the tender the Saints have on the table for him.

Rob Gronkowski - 9 Mil

Jason Witten - $7.4

Vernon Davis - $7.3

Antonio Gates - $7.2

Jimmy Graham - $7.03 (Because he is tendered as a top 5 NFL TE)

Jared Cook - $7.02

Jermichael Finley - $7.0

Marcedes Lewis - $6.8

Dennis Pitta - $6.4

Greg Olsen - $5.7

Martellus Bennett - $5.1

I think it is obvious that he is worth more than what he's been tendered considering his production.

CBD asked an open-ended question.

If you could get ANY PLAYER at ANY POSITION and you had to pay two first-round draft picks for the Browns.

Who would you pay that price for?

They went QBs, Tom Brady and Aarron Rodgers. They said no other player was worth that price.
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Overvaluing unproven rookies vs proven NFL players is a mistake many fantasy leaguers make as well.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Just some more fuel for the speculation-fire.

Here are the highest paid TEs in the NFL today.

Jimmy Graham is already on the list based on the tender the Saints have on the table for him.

Rob Gronkowski - 9 Mil

Jason Witten - $7.4

Vernon Davis - $7.3

Antonio Gates - $7.2

Jimmy Graham - $7.03 (Because he is tendered as a top 5 NFL TE)

Jared Cook - $7.02

Jermichael Finley - $7.0

Marcedes Lewis - $6.8

Dennis Pitta - $6.4

Greg Olsen - $5.7

Martellus Bennett - $5.1

I think it is obvious that he is worth more than what he's been tendered considering his production.

CBD asked an open-ended question.

If you could get ANY PLAYER at ANY POSITION and you had to pay two first-round draft picks for the Browns.

Who would you pay that price for?

They went QBs, Tom Brady and Aarron Rodgers. They said no other player was worth that price.
Click to expand...
Overvaluing unproven rookies vs proven NFL players is a mistake many fantasy leaguers make as well.
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it's more than that. If there weren't a cap alright but there is. To have a great team you really need those cost effective young players.
 
That's true, but I still think it's silly to say you wouldn't give up 2 1st round rookie picks for a Calvin Johnson or JJ Watt even with the cap burden.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
That's true, but I still think it's silly to say you wouldn't give up 2 1st round rookie picks for a Calvin Johnson or JJ Watt even with the cap burden.
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Well CJ and JJ aren't on the table. I would trade two first-round draft picks for Andrew Luck over anyone else right now myself.

CBD said that no TE in NFL history had ever been traded for two first-round draft picks.

They said that no WR had been traded for two first-round draft picks dating all the way back to 2000 when Seattle traded WR Joey Galloway to Dallas for two first-round draft picks.

That deal didn't work out too well for Dallas.

I don't remember who Seattle drafted with both of those picks but I do know they got RB Shaun Alexander with one of those picks and he played an instrumental role in their SB run IRRC.

Oh and the last 'proven' NFL player to get traded for even one first-round draft pick?

RB Trent Richardson to Indianapolis. :topcat:

 
Brady and Rogers aren't on the table either. It's a hypothetical.

The reason not too many players get traded for first-round picks is that teams generally don't want to give up their great players for rookie picks.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Brady and Rogers aren't on the table either. It's a hypothetical.

The reason not too many players get traded for first-round picks is that teams generally don't want to give up their great players for rookie picks.
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Good point but Mac also has a solid point about the salary cap.

On one of the boards someone said that no NFL player can be traded if he's not under contract. I don't know if that is a CBA thing or if he had that wrong and meant to say that no NFL team 'would ever' trade for a player who wasn't under contract. In any event, Graham isn't under contract and he's in what seems like a contentious contract impasse that is going to arbitration so I don't think anything 'could' or 'would' happen even if JG is designated with WR status and his salary goes off the TE map.

I don't think we'd want to set precident with the highest paid TE and the highest paid C and one of the highest paid OLTs and one of the highest paid CBs and with Gordon's contract coming-up after drafting Manziel and Gilbert. Oh and Jordan Cameron is in his contract year so their's that too.

 
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Yeah, I wasn't really saying I want the Graham thing to happen. Resigning Cameron in particular would be tough if we just gave that much for Graham.

Also there's the issue of having two pass-catching TEs that aren't good blockers on the field most of the time for a team that reportedly wants to run a ton.

I doubt it really matters. I think he'll be a Saint next year no matter what we do. It is neat to dream about having that kind of duo in the passing game though.

 
I'll say this. The Browns have the Bills 1st rounder. Signing Graham wouldn't really start to hurt them until 2016 when they lose their first and the salary cap hits start to grow between him, Thomas and Haden. With what they have it would be far less risk to them then to other teams. That being said I don't think Hoyer or rookie Manziel is going to cut it against a tough North division but that isn't really a good mindset when building a team and it's not the mindset Haslem has.

 
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PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Yeah, I wasn't really saying I want the Graham thing to happen. Resigning Cameron in particular would be tough if we just gave that much for Graham.

Also there's the issue of having two pass-catching TEs that aren't good blockers on the field most of the time for a team that reportedly wants to run a ton.

I doubt it really matters. I think he'll be a Saint next year no matter what we do. It is neat to dream about having that kind of duo in the passing game though.
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Probably won't happen at this time however Graham 'could' hit free agency next year if the Saints don't get him inked to a long-term extension so....if we're just doing harmless speculation lets kick it up to day dreaming and think of getting JG and Cameron and Josh Gordon and using those two first-round picks on other pieces of the puzzle after we wind up shoring up our QB position during the 2014 season to set us up very--nicely for this time in 2015.

I'd settle for 3 of the 4 above things falling into place this year and its within reason that our QB position does get settled and Gordon will be back next year and Cameron will be coming off a big 2014. :banned:

 
imo, you guys need to stop worrying about signing Gordon to a long term deal.

even IF he doesn't end up with a year ban this time, he's a ticking time bomb. no way he's going to command a huge deal.

 
Cameron AND Graham on the ends with Burleson and Gordon.... and the defense that they already have.... sick.

 
I just don't see the Graham thing happening. Farmer has pretty much shown especially with the Bitonio pick in the 2nd round, that he is methodical in his approach to building this team. What helps is it seems that he is in tune with Pettine. If you look at the last draft they filled all 3 of the positions that they considered players that you need to draft CB,QB,LT (although converted to guard) . I see Farmer as recognizing and valuing the assets they have and not do any knee jerk reactions. All this speculation is done by individuals who still are pining away that we didn't draft Watkins/Evens.

 
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amnesiac said:
imo, you guys need to stop worrying about signing Gordon to a long term deal.

even IF he doesn't end up with a year ban this time, he's a ticking time bomb. no way he's going to command a huge deal.
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Bright boy got pulled over for speeding this week and his passenger was cited for...wait for it...marijuana possession. I love the talent but he can't get out of his own way, trade him while he can get top value.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Id be mad too Phenix, if my super cool team was about to lose their best weapon to my lowly Browns.

But sometimes, that's just how life goes. Cooks will be good for you, though
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Are you talking trash about the Saints hypothetically losing Graham because they are hypothetically unable to make a franchise offer that the Browns hypothetically make?

I have no idea why nobody takes you seriously.

 
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Sabertooth said:
So who leads the Browns in catches this year at wideout?
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Very good question.

That guy may or may-not even be on the roster but more-likely isn't on the 'active' roster.

Right now the only healthy WR is Andrew Hawkins but he's strictly a slot WR. He's small and in the past he's had trouble staying healthy. Right now he's getting very-good reviews but to count on him staying healthy all year... Tough to bet on that and his role won't be on the outside.

Miles Austin isn't healthy right now so I don't even know if he's active but it seems like he's the current #1 WR but his injury history is well documented.

Nate Burelson's arm is in a full cast so he may miss camp and possibly everything up to the regular season and he's had a lengthy injury history as well.

Travis Benjamin isn't yet recoverd from his ACL and isn't due till a week or two into the regular season and he's another small slot WR who also returns kicks and probably isn't a threat for a large role once he returns unless its an emergency situation which it 'could' turn into.

Wild card is WR Charles Johnson who you should be familiar with since the Browns signed him off of the Packers practice squad but he's not yet recovered from his ACL injury and isn't practicing.

Very muddled at this point in time so if Cleveland signs a veteran who is cut or possibly a minor trade is on the horizon and whoever is added late may vault into substantial playing time even an older veteran who gets cut but at this time I have no idea.

 
Interesting developments out of Buffalo, two guys the MIke liked last year in the Bills defense seem like they are on the outs with the new defensive scheme.

One of the guys who fit Pettine's defense last year isn't a good fit in the new Bills-D and skipped their OTAs and their HC doesn't seem too thrilled with him.

We are not hurting at OLB but it sounds like he might wind up getting cut and would be available to be reunited with Pettine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/10134/bills-mailbag-lawson-draws-questions

Bills mailbag: Lawson draws questions

UBstudent
@IWantAllDaBacon
@mikerodak Do you think Manny Lawson makes the team? Still has impact if he does?
@mikerodak: I wouldn't bank on it. We've talked about this for months, but Manny Lawson fit well in Mike Pettine's scheme last season and excelled in his role as a stand-up, close-to-the-line player. That position doesn't exist in the same way in Jim Schwartz's defense.While we don't know the exact circumstances of Lawson's absence, he hasn't helped himself by not showing up for voluntary OTAs. Doug Marrone shrugged when asked about Lawson last week, saying he hadn't heard from him. Lawson was a quality veteran presence within the locker room last season but when it comes down to final cuts this August, will he have enough traction to stick? Maybe not. The Bills are giving Jacquies Smith plenty of looks at defensive end in OTAs and while he's ideally a back-of-the-roster player, he would be cheaper and younger than Lawson as a reserve option at defensive end.

mork1215
@mork1215
@IWantAllDaBacon@mikerodak on top of that will they trade Lawson and/or Hughes now while there's value? Cause they don't fit Schwartz
@mikerodak: I think Jerry Hughes could be a good fit within the defense. He didn't work out as a stand-up, 3-4 outside linebacker in Indianapolis, but he found a niche as a situational, hand-in-the-dirt pass rusher last season. He can retain that role under Schwartz this season. The problem is on early downs. The Bills may need Hughes to be a three-down player, so it's Hughes' run defense that will come into question. Can he hold up against larger offensive tackles and tight ends on first down and then have enough in the tank to get to quarterbacks on third down? That's a major question mark. Hughes isn't the off-the-charts athlete that Mario Williams is on the other end on the line, so he could be challenged. Still, I don't think Hughes has any chance of being traded. Could Lawson? It's possible. I don't think the Bills would fetch much on the open market for his services. He turns 30 this summer and his market could be limited to teams with a need at 3-4 outside linebacker.
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We drafted two-tall CBs but we also signed one smallish CB who Mike liked who he had in Buffalo during free agency before the draft however another smallish CB might be avaialble from the Bills who Mike liked.

This blub speculates on whether or not Nickell Robey's roster spot could be in jeapardy. They say no but that he'll get reduced PT in Buffalo because their CB group is crowded after making a big free agent sighing after having drafted CBs high in recent drafts.

Just thought it interesting since we singed that small CB in free agency from Buffalo and now another small Buffalo CB's job will be reduced and they speculated on whether or not his roster spot could be threatened.

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/10089/noting-early-trends-in-bills-otas

Noting early trends in Bills' OTAs

...Robey's role: When the Bills signed Corey Graham to a four-year, $16 million deal in March, we scratched our heads a little. Graham is a good player, but the Bills' top three cornerbacks last season -- Stephon Gilmore, Leodis McKelvin, and Nickell Robey -- were a strength of the team and all were returning. When the Bills hosted some of the draft's best cornerbacks on pre-draft visits, we continued to scratch our heads. When the Bills selected cornerback Ross Cockrell in the fourth round, it gave an even greater indication that something might change at cornerback.

With McKelvin and Gilmore out of OTAs this week because of hip surgery, the Bills' first-team cornerbacks were Graham and Ron Brooks. The next group on the field was Cockrell and Brandon Smith, followed by Robey and Mario Butler. That wasn't shocking to us, because Robey isn't considered an "outside" cornerback. Rather, he excelled in the slot last season. But when the Bills' first nickel unit came onto the field this week, it was Cockrell and Brooks outside with Graham in the slot. The next wave featured Robey in the slot with two younger players manning the outside.

What do we make of that? It could mean that Jim Schwartz doesn't value the 5-foot-7 Robey in the same way that Mike Pettine did. Would that mean Robey's roster spot is in jeopardy? Probably not, but it could indicate reduced playing time for him. The other possibility is that the Bills are simply tinkering with their personnel, seeing what they have in Brooks in what could be a make-or-break training camp, while getting Cockrell on the field as much as they can. We'll be watching to see if this trend continues this week in OTAs.
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Sabertooth said:
So who leads the Browns in catches this year at wideout?
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If Austin stays healthy, he's be the one I'd back. Just a few short years ago he was one of the more explosive and exciting players in the league, but constant hamstring injuries have not only kept him off the field but have hampered his explosiveness.

Sometimes guys who have suffered through this, move past it and never look back - Isaac Bruce comes to mind. At 30 maybe it's too late for Austion, but he has a shot I guess.

Hawkins could lead the team in receptions, but from a fantasy standpoint they may be "empty receptions" i.e. not many yards after the catch and very few TDs.

Bennett and Burelson are solid boring veterans, but sometimes a young QB will latch onto some one like that.

Best bet is likely Jordan Cameron leading the team in receptions - but obviously you asked which wideout.

 
Only a few minutes after pondering whether or not the Browns might be interested in a former Pettine CB it came accross the wire that we signed a former Pettine CB but not the guy noted above.

Former NYJ that played in Pettine's defense there comes to us with some baggage but seems to fill out the cornerback position if he sticks.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/browns-sign-cornerback-aaron-berry/

Browns sign cornerback Aaron BerryPosted by Michael David Smith on June 2, 2014, 8:46 AM EDT

Cleveland has added some depth in its secondary in the form of free agent cornerback Aaron Berry.

The Browns announced this morning that they have signed Berry, who has previously played for the Lions and Jets.

Things haven’t gone smoothly for the 25-year-old Berry in his first four NFL seasons. He was cut by the Lions in 2012 after he was arrested twice in a month, once for drunk driving and once after he was accused of brandishing a gun in a parking lot. The NFL suspended him for three games for those incidents, and after he signed with the Jets following his suspension he had injury problems, first a hamstring injury late in the 2012 season and then a torn ACL in training camp in 2013.

Still, Berry has talent, and he was projected as a starter for the Lions before they cut him for off-field reasons. If he can stay healthy and stay out of trouble, Berry has a decent chance to contribute in Cleveland, where he already knows the defense run by head coach Mike Pettine, who was the Jets’ defensive coordinator when Berry played for them in 2012. The Browns already have one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL in Joe Haden, and a talented rookie in first-round pick Justin Gilbert. Any production they could get out of Berry would be a nice bonus.
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PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Dr. Octopus said:
Hawkins could lead the team in receptions, but from a fantasy standpoint they may be "empty receptions" i.e. not many yards after the catch and very few TDs.
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I was thinking most of Hawkins' production could come on YAC. Maybe I'm overly influenced by that short reception and 50 yard run he had against the Browns in 2012.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000062657/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hawkins-busts-it-open
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That is fair - as he is very quick, and if he finds the space can exploit it - I'm thinking more in terms with his usage in the passing game and how he'll have a tough time fighting off defenders.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Dr. Octopus said:
Hawkins could lead the team in receptions, but from a fantasy standpoint they may be "empty receptions" i.e. not many yards after the catch and very few TDs.
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I was thinking most of Hawkins' production could come on YAC. Maybe I'm overly influenced by that short reception and 50 yard run he had against the Browns in 2012.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000062657/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hawkins-busts-it-open
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Will be interesting to see how Hawkins has used as everything I have seen/read suggests the Shanahan offense doesn't use the slot receivers much. It was pretty run/playaction oriented and was pretty heavily predicated on the X receiver, which was Garcon. Gordon should be awesome in this offense when he gets his chance. To their credit, the Shanahan's did a good job of tweaking the offense in a manner that helped RG3 adjust, but they generally seem to be pretty stubborn about sticking to their system.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Dr. Octopus said:
Hawkins could lead the team in receptions, but from a fantasy standpoint they may be "empty receptions" i.e. not many yards after the catch and very few TDs.
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I was thinking most of Hawkins' production could come on YAC. Maybe I'm overly influenced by that short reception and 50 yard run he had against the Browns in 2012.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000062657/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hawkins-busts-it-open
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that is how cincy usually used him
 
Tweet clearinghouse.

From today's OTAs:

====================

Posted: Today 11:37 AM

Re: Tweets from OTA Practices

Nate Ulrich ‏ @ NateUlrichABJ 10s

# Browns WR Miles Austin practicing today for first time since joining team

Tom Reed ‏ @ treed1919 1m

# Browns WR Miles Austin on the field today for first time during a media-attended practice. Still not doing much.

Nate Ulrich ‏ @ NateUlrichABJ 2m

# Browns QB Johnny Manziel off to rough start today. Picked off by Robert Nelson in WR vs. DB drill. Then picked off by Whitner in 11-on-11.

Mary Kay Cabot ‏ @ MaryKayCabot 1m

# browns Manziel taking first reps in opening set of team drills, then thigpen. Hoyer still not fully cleared for these yet.

==================

Tweets from last week:

==================

Nate Ulrich ‏ @ NateUlrichABJ 39s

# Browns rookie Joel Bitonio clearly has great shot to be immediate starter. Brass praising him & he lined up as first-team left guard today.

Channel 3 Sports ‏ @ WKYCSports 9m

# Browns RB Dion Lewis was full-go at practice Wednesday. Lewis missed all of 2013 with broken leg.

Nate Ulrich ‏ @ NateUlrichABJ 5s

11-on-11 notes: CBs with ones were Joe Haden, Buster Skrine and Isaiah Trufant. No. 8 overall pick Justin Gilbert was with twos.

Mary Kay Cabot ‏ @ MaryKayCabot 13s

# browns Pettine said "we'll take advantage of manziel's mobility. You don't take a guy like that and ask him to be a statue."

5/28/2014 12:09 PM

Fred Greetham ‏ @ FredGreethamOBR 8s

# Browns top pick Justin Gilbert running se[co]nd team behind Buster Skrine at cornerback

Scott Petrak ct ‏ @ ScottPetrak 35s

# Browns rookie Joel Bitonio still with starters at LG. only rookie with ones.

Nate Ulrich ‏ @ NateUlrichABJ 45s

# Browns HC Mike Pettine said WRs Travis Benjamin and Charles Johnson are only players on roster who might miss start of training camp.

Nathan Zegura ‏ @ NathanZegura 9s

Also have to say, Pro Bowl TE @ JordanCameron looks even better and more polished this year...he is dominating practices in Kyle's offense

Nathan Zegura ‏ @ NathanZegura 11s

He looks faster and more fluid as a route runner in 2014.... @ JordanCameron will be the #1 pass catcher for the Browns if JG misses any time

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 6m

#Browns ST coordinator Chris Tabor said rookie CB Justin Gilbert is in the mix for punt returner and kickoff returner.

.

.Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 4m

#Browns ST coordinator Tabor said CB Buster Skrine, WR Earl Bennett & WR Travis Benjamin (when back from injury) are also return candidates.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 3m

#Browns ST coordinator Tabor said he's encouraged by Travis Benjamin's rehab from torn ACL & looking forward to having him back next season.

Daryl Ruiter ‏@RuiterWrongFAN 2m

#Browns DC Jim O'Neil said Justin Gilbert good as advertised; Joe Haden has been great "big brothering" him

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 3m

#Browns DC Jim O'Neil said he's been really impressed by rookie CB Justin Gilbert. Said he'll "get every opportunity to win" starting job.

john telich‏ @ JohnTelich8 2 mins

"I think, they have a good feel 4 the zone scheme and able to put their foot in the ground and get north and south." Pettine on West & Tate

 
so i finally did a search on Manziel's little money gesture and the results were disturbing.

someone please enlighten me on this subject, because what i read makes me think he's going to get bounced quicker than Gordon.

 
amnesiac said:
so i finally did a search on Manziel's little money gesture and the results were disturbing.

someone please enlighten me on this subject, because what i read makes me think he's going to get bounced quicker than Gordon.
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Hey Amnesiac,

I have to give you credit. Back in March you said that you felt he was over rated and a college over acheiver. You never liked Manziel and you didn't back down when we drafted him. I respect that you have been consistent.

I felt that Teddy and Johnny were the only 'franchise' QBs from this class but didn't feel either rated top-ten picks but I liked em both but felt Johnny would be a better fit in a dome or less harsh weather location than Cleveland or any northern out-door location. Reports of his arm strength being solid has taken away my biggest concern about him. I wasn't concerned about the off-field stuff but I don't have a clue about the 'money'sign'.

What did you find out about the 'money-sign' that concerns you?

===================

Also, in a bit of a small surprise, to me, we cut LB Quentin Groves.

I liked the little we saw of his pass rush last year and he was a solid special teamer and he provided solid depth at the start of last year when Mingo was injured.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/06/browns-cut-outside-linebacker-quentin-groves/

Browns cut outside linebacker Quentin GrovesPosted by Darin Gantt on June 6, 2014, 8:04 AM EDT
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Yesterday Grossi posted something that is indirectly connected to letting Groves go.

Pettine has big plans for Jabaal Sheard and we know our DC loves Mingo.


http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=33691
A surprise answer:

I posed this fill-in-the-blank statement to Pettine: “When all is said and done, the defensive player who will have the biggest impact on the 2014 season will be … " His answer: “Jabaal Sheard. Got big plans for him. He caught my eye watching the tape from year ago and I think we’re going to do a good job of putting him in some positions where he can be successful and take advantage of his skill set.” This sentiment would seem to cement 2013 No. 1 pick Barkevious Mingo as a situational role player heading into his second training camp.
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the article i read was very sensational, so i want to know what others have read about it before i give what i read any credence.

 
i am glad Pettine likes Sheard. he seemed to do well his first year, but didn't seem to fit with Horton's system last year.

i'm actually starting to get excited about the defense.

 
amnesiac said:
the article i read was very sensational, so i want to know what others have read about it before i give what i read any credence.
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I haven't read anything about it and doubt I ever will. I think he's trying to build a brand. He's off to a good start.

If it's something more eye opening then I may give it a look. I just don't really care. I hope everyone else in the league hates it and he plays great though. Playing the role of villain sounds a lot more fun than doormat.

 
amnesiac said:
i am glad Pettine likes Sheard. he seemed to do well his first year, but didn't seem to fit with Horton's system last year.

i'm actually starting to get excited about the defense.
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I wonder if Groves getting cut has more to do with Petine wanting to bring in the depth guys on his former roster's as previously rumored.

 
amnesiac said:
the article i read was very sensational, so i want to know what others have read about it before i give what i read any credence.
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Manziel said (I believe in the introductory press conference after the draft) that it's just something that he and one of the RB's at A&M made up during their redshirt year as sort of a 'secret handshake' for lack of a better term, and that it really doesn't mean anything. Settle down.

 
btw, credit where credit is due, you didn't like him predraft and are sticking to it. You'll root for the Browns because it's your team, but you're not just blindly following like a sheep. The pre draft anti Johnny crowd that has flip flopped has got to go. If you're going to make an opinion then stick to it until you're led to believe otherwise. That shouldn't happen until after the games start.

 
oh, i'm fairly convinced he will flop. (and as a Browns fan, i would love to be wrong)

i'm just reading some stuff that implies he's into the drug scene, and was curious if anyone else read that too.

 
MAC_32 said:
btw, credit where credit is due, you didn't like him predraft and are sticking to it. You'll root for the Browns because it's your team, but you're not just blindly following like a sheep. The pre draft anti Johnny crowd that has flip flopped has got to go. If you're going to make an opinion then stick to it until you're led to believe otherwise. That shouldn't happen until after the games start.
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Who flip flopped?

 
ghostguy123 said:
Soulfly3 said:
mr fancypants said:
Soulfly3 said:
#Crabtree

you're welcome in advance
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Filed next to the Watkins/Evans prediction <_<
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The pick was watkins. Farmer already said that.

You dont turn down that offer on draft day.
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This is true.

And if Evans was there at 9, pick was EVans.
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Your both delusional, the plan all along was to get the best CB out there so Pettine could orchestrate his defense. Both Farmer and Pettine are defense guys. Their main 3 positions to draft are QB,CB LT., which they did so accordingly. What happened in the 2nd rd where supposedly there was value in the WR core? The both of you need to go back to playing Madden where you can go to pick "name" players and outscore everybody 73-60 and leave the real decision to football guys who know what there doing. CB > WR in the Pettine scheme.

 
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mr fancypants said:
Your both delusional, the plan all along was to get the best CB out there so Pettine could orchestrate his defense. Both Farmer and Pettine are defense guys. Their main 3 positions to draft are QB,CB LT., which they did so accordingly. What happened in the 2nd rd where supposedly there was value in the WR core? The both of you need to go back to playing Madden where you can go to pick "name" players and outscore everybody 73-60 and leave the real decision to football guys who know what there doing. CB > WR in the Pettine scheme.
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So if we didnt trade down we take Gilbert at 4............got it.

And since we did trade down, obviously there was 100% chance Gilbert would be available to us.....got it.

Not sure what the 2nd round value WRs have anything to do with anything. We are keeping it simple. You are jumping to 500 conclusions. Look up the definition of delusional, then look in the mirror.

 
ghostguy123 said:
mr fancypants said:
Your both delusional, the plan all along was to get the best CB out there so Pettine could orchestrate his defense. Both Farmer and Pettine are defense guys. Their main 3 positions to draft are QB,CB LT., which they did so accordingly. What happened in the 2nd rd where supposedly there was value in the WR core? The both of you need to go back to playing Madden where you can go to pick "name" players and outscore everybody 73-60 and leave the real decision to football guys who know what there doing. CB > WR in the Pettine scheme.
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So if we didnt trade down we take Gilbert at 4............got it.

And since we did trade down, obviously there was 100% chance Gilbert would be available to us.....got it.

Not sure what the 2nd round value WRs have anything to do with anything. We are keeping it simple. You are jumping to 500 conclusions. Look up the definition of delusional, then look in the mirror.
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You're not following his point very well. If they wanted a player at CB, T or QB as he mentioned above.. Then yes, it was nearly 100% that they would have gotten one of those guys at 9. They got their top guy at 9 and that is a bonus. If he wasn't there they could have just as easily drafted Lewan or a QB and still stuck to his plan.
 
If we didn't trade down, I would still take Gilbert at #4. If they wanted Watkins all along, they would have taken him.

If we traded down to #9 and Gilbert was gone, there were other CBs. Also, I would also assume their mocks are at least as accurate as ours.

I can't see how people are quibbling about Bitonio in rnd 2. I will take him over Marquis Lee all day long. Does everyone remember how pitiful our running game was last year?

 
mr fancypants said:
I'm in a state of shock as I've just listened to Grossi's podcast on the RBS. He is finally seeing the light that outside of not being able to acquire Mack the next best thing would be to trade down and acquire a 2nd CB. He even mentioned that Dennard could be a better fit in Pettine's defense than Gilbert. I've only been advocating this scenario for the last 3 months as the 2nd CB will have the most impact than any other position other than QB for this team.

Draft day is here
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The only one here who called it correctly is Mr. Fancy Pants. He nailed it and check out the date and time.

Draft day a few hours before the draft began. Pretty impressive.

Farmer contacted every NFL GM before the draft and worked out two possible deals.

One with Atlanta that has been reported where we only would have gotten Atlanta's 3rd round pick to move-down to the 6th pick. If we would have taken that deal we very-likely would have taken WR Mike Evans as reported from Tony Pauline and numerous other sources.

Farmer knew about Josh Gordon so if he wanted Watkins we would have taken him at 4 and not made the trade-down.

The decision was:

1. Watkins and nothing else

2. Evans and an extra 3rd round pick

3. Gilbert + 2015 1st round pick + 2015 4th round picks

Losely following Buffalo, their new DC won't blitz as much as Pettine who wants/needs press CBs so he can aggressively blitz.

Fancy Pants had a trade-down AND Gilbert on his radar, I didn't but that night I did homework pouring over everything that Pettine said about Gilbert FITTING HIS SYSTEM. After doing the homework on what Pettine wants/needs for his system I completely bought-in on the CB Justin Gilbert pick which made the trade-down that much better AFIC.

Gilbert is a perfect fit for Pettine/O'Rien's defensive system.

Getting Gilbert AND extras and then Farmer got QB Johnny Manziel without paying a top-ten premium.

From today.

Jerry Jones is having some NON-Buyer's remorse on passing on Manziel.

Unlike Amenisiac Jerry Jones feels Johnny Manziel will be a successful quarterback and I agree with 'Jerra' here:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/07/jerry-jones-reverses-field-says-it-was-hard-to-pass-on-johnny-manziel/

Jerry Jones reverses field, says it was hard to pass on Johnny ManzielPosted by Darin Gantt on June 7, 2014, 9:56 AM EDT

In the months leading up to, and the weeks after the NFL Draft, one of the primary conversations was the dream scenario linking of Johnny Manziel and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.

And for all the downplaying of it afterward, it appears the Jones was rather torn as to whether he should draft Manziel to back up Tony Romo for the time being.

Via the Dallas Morning News, Jones admitted it was “hard” passing Manziel, while speaking at an event honoring former Arkansas coach and athletic director Frank Broyles.

“Well, it was. Yes, it was,” Jones said. “First of all, I couldn’t believe he had fallen there. And secondly, we had spent a lot of time, I’d spent a lot of time. He’s the kind of player that can be that kind of difference-maker. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’ll be a successful player. We have in Romo what I consider to be the better quarterback. But there’s also the future, there’s also insurance if you don’t have him. If anybody could have adjusted to Manziel’s style, we could have because we’re a lot like that with Romo.”

That seems like a 180 from “That’s why we didn’t spend a lot of time considering Manziel,” or ““No, frankly that [picking Manziel] wasn’t even a thought.”

But given as many times as this story has changed, it will inevitably change again.
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I don't know if we'd have picked Sammy if the trade had not have happened, but I think we would have.

When that trade got offered we had to take it. Then Pettine could lobby for the cb he wanted.

Everyone is happy.

 
MAC_32 said:
I don't know if we'd have picked Sammy if the trade had not have happened, but I think we would have.

When that trade got offered we had to take it. Then Pettine could lobby for the cb he wanted.

Everyone is happy.
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Mac I respect your opinion, but I really think if push came to shove and they had to make the pick. They would have chosen Mack.Do you really believe Pettine stopped by Mack's workout as he was trying to sell his house? Both Pettine and Farmer come across as traditionalists in their belief on how to build the team. If they graded out Watkins in the Calvin Johnson/AJ Green category the trade never would have happened. I still believe that Farmer went into this draft with the intentions of using Watkins as a trading chip . This was not something that happened out of the clear blue sky, but was strategically planned. My reference to the 2nd rd. choice was aimed at Farmer having a game plan and stuck to it. To many others would have panicked and chosen the best WR available. I applaud Farmer with what he did. It's going to be great to have a guy in his position who knows what he is doing.

 
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