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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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who has actually been to training camp this year?

could you share your thoughts and observations?

haven't been, but everyone I talk to has said the same thing.

Austin, Johnson, and Hawkins stand out at wr. We have some very strong backs. This defense is going to be sick. And the qb play has been very uninspiring from both.

Haven't talked with anyone that went to yesterday's scrimmage though.

But for the names, you could have just written a Bills camp-to-date review. Something about Lake Erie this year. :shrug:

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Johnny taking warmup snaps from Alex Mack. First team reps today??

Tony Grossi ‏@TonyGrossi 1m

Johnny w 1st team right off bat.

They announced that a day or two ago. That they wanted to get JFF up to speed a little, then mix it up and see if either guy could go out and win it.

Not that you're saying otherwise, but just a note to passers by that this isn't an ascendance. Just a pre-planned coaching shuffle in the order of doing things for the day.

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who has actually been to training camp this year?

could you share your thoughts and observations?

haven't been, but everyone I talk to has said the same thing.

Austin, Johnson, and Hawkins stand out at wr. We have some very strong backs. This defense is going to be sick. And the qb play has been very uninspiring from both.

Haven't talked with anyone that went to yesterday's scrimmage though.

But for the names, you could have just written a Bills camp-to-date review. Something about Lake Erie this year. :shrug:

I think it's different. Cleveland is installing a new system with two QB's who have a combined 4 starts between them. Manuel missed a lot of time last year, but it's the same system; just with upgraded weaponry. I didn't expect either QB to look great right now. I expect to see progress throughout the preseason though.

Without Kiko the Bills defense is going to take a big step back this year. Not going to be quick to judge replacing Pettine with Schwartz, but it's something I'll be watching too. They also need someone(s) to step up on the line. The starters are quality, but behind them? Blegh, could be many-a 4th quarter problems if the starter's are forced to play the bulk of the sanps. Cleveland's defense may be strong across the board, and special at a couple of positions, with depth on the line too. Just need a functional offense. If it comes with a couple of big (positive) plays too? Trying to keep my expectations tempered, but there could be something here.

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REALLY worried about injuries at QB! Who is third in line?

We will see injuries at QB so I'm not worried about it because its inevitable.

Also I wouldn't bother with who our 3rd string QB is because its a 'battle' between Tyler Thigpen and some free agent and neither has looked good so if it comes down to that then you don't have to worry about the season at that point.

Nice recap on how every one of our rookies looked in last night's game.

Really wanted to see CB Justin Gilbert in action but he was out with a groin injury.

LINK:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Rookie-Roundup/2478fb9d-2cbf-4410-8f48-0e7885ea07c5

Rookie Roundup

Posted 6 hours ago

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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

possible they're trying to figure out if they're even going to carry 3 QBs this year.

several teams only carry 2 these days.

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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

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Have yet to jump on board the JF hype train but I will say it was really nice to see a QB for the Browns who can scramble like that. Thought the kid played pretty well.

agreed. tho he'd better quit that sliding head first crap or he'll be on the IR before camp ends...

Thought he went feet first maybe besides once when he should have. Got out of bounds on a play or two avoiding contact. He made some solid throws from the pocket. A few throws that will be completions in the future. First game success imo.

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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

JF made one nice throw over the middle... the rest of his game when his first read wasn't there he danced around in the pocket or took off.... does anyone think he can make it through a season in the NFL running like that? I wasn't impressed and frankly I was stunned to read he gained on Hoyer...

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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

Well Manziel is that "development" guy... and if Hoyer goes down via injury and Manziel struggles, as a head coach would you really want to possibly lean on another 22-23 year old "development" rookie as your starter if Manziel also goes down?

Thigpen isn't a fancy option but he's typical of 95% of most NFL backup quarterbacks in the league. He's a veteran who's started some games, can handle a playbook, and can handle spot starting a game here and there. There's a reason guys like Thigpen can be backups and move around the league for 7-10 years.

Edited by DawnBTVS
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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

Connor Shaw is the young developmental guy.

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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

Connor Shaw is the young developmental guy.
Ooof... That won't turn out well.
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Probably not, but most day 3/udfa's don't. If he were playing well in camp then he probably would have played some, since he didn't (and the reports haven't been too good) I'm guessing there's a reason for that.

Most likely scenario at this point, Browns pluck their 3rd QB (if they get one) during September 1 cuts.

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My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

oh those crazy browns... drop the 30 year old 3rd string QB for a 34 year old one.... BRILLIANT

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My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

oh those crazy browns... drop the 30 year old 3rd string QB for a 34 year old one.... BRILLIANT

You mean the veteran with experience in Shanny's offense that can help mentor the young guys because he knows he is not the answer at QB and is available to help both of them?

Yeah, I agree, smart move.

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My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

oh those crazy browns... drop the 30 year old 3rd string QB for a 34 year old one.... BRILLIANT

You mean the veteran with experience in Shanny's offense that can help mentor the young guys because he knows he is not the answer at QB and is available to help both of them?

Yeah, I agree, smart move.

Isn't that what a QB coach is for? But instead of an actual prospect holding the clipboard you'd rather have a QB who has more career INT's than TD's? and his 17 games of experience in this system that produced 23TD's and 24 INT's and a QB Rating of 72? I'd be aiming for a better "mentor"

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Third string QBs were struggling.

Hoyer maybe looked a bit rusty and Manziel looked 'ok' but he took a hard hit. Pettine and Farmer got a long look at Thigpen and decided to sign Rex Grossman.

Rex knows the system and Browns Offensive Coordinator Kyle Shanahan knows what Rexie can do.

Better than what we had and third string QB is 'in case of emergency break glass' type of position but our 3rd stringer 'might' actually get some work this year considering the ACL with Hoyer and the fact Johnny throws his body around.

Why would anyone knock this signing?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2160258-rex-grossman-to-browns-latest-contract-details-comments-and-reaction

... he will add depth and perhaps push Manziel and Hoyer to perform even better in practice.

.If injuries or poor play plague the Browns during the regular season, though, Grossman will be waiting in the wings.

This is essentially a no-downside signing for Cleveland, and it could be beneficial for someone like Manziel to learn from a quarterback who understands the pressures of being a first-round pick.

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My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

oh those crazy browns... drop the 30 year old 3rd string QB for a 34 year old one.... BRILLIANT

You mean the veteran with experience in Shanny's offense that can help mentor the young guys because he knows he is not the answer at QB and is available to help both of them?

Yeah, I agree, smart move.

Isn't that what a QB coach is for? But instead of an actual prospect holding the clipboard you'd rather have a QB who has more career INT's than TD's? and his 17 games of experience in this system that produced 23TD's and 24 INT's and a QB Rating of 72? I'd be aiming for a better "mentor"

I'm sure there are better examples, but Colt McCoy was semi-competent for his experience level when he had Jake Delhomme to mentor him. When Delhomme wasn't re-signed and Seneca Wallace became the only veteran QB presence McCoy's play slipped. Wallace made it no secret he was playing for a job and wasn't going to help the young guy whereas Delhomme went out of his way to help him. So, yes, I think it can make a difference.

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[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Grossman is reunited with Kyle Shanahan. The Browns could carry three QBs, but it is also possible that they are willing to trade Brian Hoyer now that Johnny Manziel's development appears to be on track. Hoyer worked with Texans head coach Bill O'Brien when both were in New England and the Texans are possibly regretting handing the keys over to Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's a longshot, but something to keep in mind when trying to make sense of this move.

OK, if they roll into this season with just Manziel and Grossman i am ####### done with this team.

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[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Grossman is reunited with Kyle Shanahan. The Browns could carry three QBs, but it is also possible that they are willing to trade Brian Hoyer now that Johnny Manziel's development appears to be on track. Hoyer worked with Texans head coach Bill O'Brien when both were in New England and the Texans are possibly regretting handing the keys over to Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's a longshot, but something to keep in mind when trying to make sense of this move.

OK, if they roll into this season with just Manziel and Grossman i am ####### done with this team.

Really?

Even if they turn career backup Hoyer into Andre Johnson?

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To me it looks like Grossman was always on the back burner & they decided to cut bait on Thigpen. Don't think it's significant regarding Hoyer's future. If they were going to trade him, it would have been better to retain Thigpen & add Grossman.

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[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Grossman is reunited with Kyle Shanahan. The Browns could carry three QBs, but it is also possible that they are willing to trade Brian Hoyer now that Johnny Manziel's development appears to be on track. Hoyer worked with Texans head coach Bill O'Brien when both were in New England and the Texans are possibly regretting handing the keys over to Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's a longshot, but something to keep in mind when trying to make sense of this move.

OK, if they roll into this season with just Manziel and Grossman i am ####### done with this team.

Really?

Even if they turn career backup Hoyer into Andre Johnson?

interesting. hadn't thought about that.

except Johnson would be done by the time they got a decent QB.

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To me it looks like Grossman was always on the back burner & they decided to cut bait on Thigpen. Don't think it's significant regarding Hoyer's future. If they were going to trade him, it would have been better to retain Thigpen & add Grossman.

i don't think it means anything either, but where did they even come up with the whole trade Hoyer to Houston thing?
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To me it looks like Grossman was always on the back burner & they decided to cut bait on Thigpen. Don't think it's significant regarding Hoyer's future. If they were going to trade him, it would have been better to retain Thigpen & add Grossman.

i don't think it means anything either, but where did they even come up with the whole trade Hoyer to Houston thing?

I guess it came from this tweet from former NFL QB Sage Rosenfels.

Sage played three seasons with the Texans and some media people tried connecting dots but its pretty flimsy to say the least.

================================

Sage Rosenfels@SageRosenfels18 · 22m

Hearing a crazy #NFL rumor. If/when confirmed, it hugely affect two franchises.

================================

I guess the rumor sprang from this tweet and the HOU WR Andre Johnson trade smoke along with our dire reciever need and the past rumors of QB Brian Hoyer being a fav of the Houston Texan head coach along with their dire quarterback need all intersected with us signing QB Rex Grossman. Whew!

Lots of moving parts with that clusterchuck. Not sure how it got any legs.

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It happened again today. I was listening to Grossi until Goldhammer opened his dimwit mouth & I had to turn the radio off. Gad, that kid's terrible!

He said he blames the current WR "situation" on Farmer. Talk about revisionist history! He wanted to trade up to #1 for Manziel! That would have left us without Gilbert, Bitonio, and Buf's 2015 #1. But, we'd still have Manziel! And, we could have taken Josh Huff or Dante Moncrief in round 3.

'Hammer sux!

ETA: :X

Edited by daveR
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Last year someone called the Really Big Show's fantasy football special and asked, "Who do you think will outperform their ADP"? Neither Hammer or Rizzo knew what ADP meant, LOL!

Should have heard them try to talk soccer earlier this summer, LOLOLOL!!!

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where did they even come up with the whole trade Hoyer to Houston thing?

I've never understood the obsession of trading a quality backup. So you can be totally screwed when/if the starter gets injured?
that and i think Hoyer starts most of the year.
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Who knows what's true, but...

--Sage might be well-connected in Houston since he played there several years

--The Browns might need a WR with a ruling expected this week

--Browns signed Grossman as pure backup and Manziel is the likely starter

--Bill O'Brien coached Hoyer as a QB coach in 2009 and 2010 and was his offensive coordinator in 2011

--Andre wants out of Houston badly

At the very least this rumor's not as crazy as some that get floated.

Edited by wdcrob
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I waited 20 years waiting for the Seahawks to win a playoff game. I feel your pain Browns fans. Keep the faith. Your time will come and it will be glorious.

Still rooting for you guys. Hope that this draft vaults your team to some success in the coming years. The NFL is a better league when its long suffering fans have something to cheer about.

Damn. Still rooting for you guys, but it doesn't look good. Was hoping that Johnny Football would be a savior. Let's just hope it was an off night that becomes a good learning experience.

:kicksrock:

Edited by Hooper31
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I've watched three quarters of the Browns this August between the two games, and I am convinced Mingo is the next big defensive star in the league.

defense may out score the offense this year, so much impact play back there. If Kirskey and Gilbert translate quickt here is not a hole anywhere on the unit.
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Not quite sure I understand the philosophy behind giving Thigpen so much work. I'd say they should have been giving Hoyer and Manziel as much work as possible last night.

It was the first pre-season game. It's pretty standard for third string QBs to get the most playing time, even when the first two don't have a lot of experience. I guess keeping people healthy is the main priority of the first game.

My question is why is Tyler Thigpen your 3rd QB? That roster spot is typically reserved for a younger player you are trying to develop... thigpen is an older player who already flamed out in KC and Miami

Connor Shaw is the young developmental guy.
Ooof... That won't turn out well.

It just might. He looked pretty good out there.

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Golic brought up a good point this morning on the radio.

Swapping in and out with the 1st team like this at Qb is likely throwing off the rhythmn of the QB and WR's plus Manziel and Hoyer throwing the ball differently.

Despite both looking meh so far I think Pettine needs to go ahead and just name 1 the starter and given them all/the majority of 1st team reps to try to get the offense running better.

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The GOOD stuff.

- Gilbert looked good. He may have to start sooner than desired due to Skrine's busted finger but he looked good.

- Kirksey looked better against the run than I thought he would but Robertson was starting and he was looking decent.

- Bitonio looks like he will be a solid OG for a long time.

- The overall defense. The goal line stand was one of the best I've ever witnessed. Four downs inside the two yard line. This D could be really-really good if they get some support from the offense and ST.

The BAD.

- Shanahan system isn't working with the passing game. We'd expect Johnny to struggle getting up to speed since he never had a playbook and Beval had a simple spread attack with the longest call having four words based off of colors and numbers whereas Shanny's system has between fifteen and 18 individual peices. For comparison's sake, the average short term memory of a human is between five and seven items. Johnny scored a 32 on his Wonderlick so he's pretty sharp and should eventually be able to handle things but he went from a simple spread to learning a Pro-Set Shanahan system.

Bottom line, the struggles that Johnny is having were expected, err by me but the fact that Hoyer is struggling is a major concern IMHO. This is bad stuff, really bad.

Hoyer has got a better O-Line than he had last year. He has the NFL leading reciever who he worked well with last year in Josh Gordon and a Pro Bowl TE in Jordan Cameron and a much better slot WR than the stoner from Miami in Andrew Hawkins and an improvement over Greg Little in Miles Austin so even though we anticipate losing JG in the near future, right now, Hoyer has BETTER receivers to work with and he's still struggling.

It could be rust from the ACL and long absence but when both QBs are struggling hitting receivers we see the timing is waaaaay off with the passing attack. Basically I think the culprit is Shanahan's system right now. The good news is that it might only be a matter of time before things get worked out but its a full-blown disaster right now and it could get worse if the defense gets demoralized. This is the single biggest concern with the team heading into the season and it won't be worked out by the time the first game rolls around.

The AVERAGE.

- The running game. Not really blowing anyone away but obviously not nearly as bad as the passing game.

Doug Dieken said this zone-blocking scheme is not going to have its timing down until later in the season. He said they will struuggle but he felt they were ahead of schedule due to the caliber of our offensive linemen.

I felt we'd have a vastly improved defense so we'd only need 'average' QB play to get close to .500 winning percent. I don't know how Shanny fixes this.

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Cut out this QB competition BS, and give one the QBs consistent time with the 1s to gain consistency and timing. It's also preseason, so you know the coaches aren't bringing everything they have and saving some for the season.

Let Hoyer start and Manziel continue his NFL education on the sidelines. He showed his not ready yet to play the game (mentally). If a sideline can get into your head that quickly, what will he do in the AFCN where trash-talking is part of the TC preparation in Pittsburgh and Baltimore? He needs to learn a little bit more and get used to what happens on game day. I'm not saying Manziel isn't the future, but I certainly don't think he's the present.

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