Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

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Dr. Octopus said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

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We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

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daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

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MAC_32 said:

Dr. Octopus said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

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Probably not, but if McCown fails then the team fails and Johnny gets a trial late in the season. If the team is in the playoff hunt then McCown is likely playing adequately. It's a lot easier to go from the vet to the kid than the other way around. Pettine has insinuated he'd prefer this season be a redshirt for Manziel anyway. Probably the right move since he spent winter and spring getting his mind right rather than on football and he was already, clearly, way behind the 8 ball.

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pantherclub said:

MAC_32 said:

Dr. Octopus said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

Click to expand...

Probably not, but if McCown fails then the team fails and Johnny gets a trial late in the season. If the team is in the playoff hunt then McCown is likely playing adequately. It's a lot easier to go from the vet to the kid than the other way around. Pettine has insinuated he'd prefer this season be a redshirt for Manziel anyway. Probably the right move since he spent winter and spring getting his mind right rather than on football and he was already, clearly, way behind the 8 ball.

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Is there a link to this?

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Cleveland Rocks ​

...this column gets to focus on something a little different: the Cleveland Browns' offensive line.

It was a bit of an up-and-down game for the unit overall. After a quarter and a half I was ready to declare my undying love and support to them, because I thought they came out absolutely gangbusters. Then they got bogged down a little in third quarter, before putting together a hell of a final drive to seal the game. The fact the offense ebbed and flowed almost entirely on the line's performance probably means that the quarterback controversy isn't as all-important as it may appear. I think the Browns offense is going to go as far as the offensive line can take them.

One area where there was no ebb and flow, only unrelenting awesomeness, was left tackle. Joe Thomas was fantastic throughout the game, particularly while run blocking...

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Bobcat10 said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

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Dr. Octopus said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

Click to expand...

Bobcat10 said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

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amnesiac said:

i don't understand why they would move away from McCown right now.

we haven't learned anything new about Manziel the last two weeks, have we?

i don't see "let the QB run around in circles and then launch the ball downfield" as a recipe for sustained sucess.

i'm glad it worked last week, but i trust Pettine if he doesn't think Manziel is ready to start just yet.

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daveR said:

I question how much validity the "quarterback of the future" concept contains. I'm pretty sure McCown will last 3-4 more years unless he blows out a knee or something. That should be enough time to groom his eventual replacement, no? The two goals, "win now" and "develop Johnny" don't need to be mutually exclusive, do they?

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daveR said:

36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

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Bracie Smathers said:

daveR said:

36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

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QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

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pantherclub said:

Bracie Smathers said:

daveR said:

36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

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QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

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In fairness he got injured trying to do a stupid thing.

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Bracie Smathers said:

Bracie Smathers said:

SaintsInDome2006 said:

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 5h5 hours ago

#Browns OC Flip: "I told the guys this morning that no one has to go out and play like Superman for us to win this game"

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Way to coach`em up, Flip.

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Probably directed at QB Josh McCowan who took some unnecessary hits in the third preseason game when he ran and didn't slide and another time when he held onto the ball took long and got rocked by a linebacker. If Josh goes down Johnny is the only backup who knows the offense and he has been suffering from tendinitis and only recently began throwing again.

Other than Josh I don't know who he would have been addressing.

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Yup.

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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/browns-qb-josh-mccown-suffers-concussion-jets-article-1.2358803

Browns QB Josh McCown suffers concussion vs. Jets, Johnny Manziel takes over for Cleveland ​

McCown fumbles the ball at the goal line on the play. He will not return to action Sunday.​

------

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PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Should probably just name McCown Quarterback for Life. After all, he did convert a few third downs on that one drive. His previous 12 years of mediocrity were all just building to this.

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Bracie Smathers said:

daveR said:

36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

Click to expand...

QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

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daveR said:

Bobcat10 said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

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Seems to me that Johnny's limited success in the Jets game was PROVEN to be fool's gold. Also seems that your opinion about how McCown would have fared throughout the remainder of the game is pure speculation based on your own prejudice.

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Bobcat10 said:

daveR said:

Bobcat10 said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

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Seems to me that Johnny's limited success in the Jets game was PROVEN to be fool's gold. Also seems that your opinion about how McCown would have fared throughout the remainder of the game is pure speculation based on your own prejudice.

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Speculation is all we have. Are you also not speculating on McCown? You're talking about one drive. Didn't seem like we were beating the Jets when we couldn't block for ####.

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IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

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amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

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defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

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Carter_Can_Fly said:

amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

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defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

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They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...

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IHEARTFF said:

Carter_Can_Fly said:

amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

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defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

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They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...

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A) ExactlyB) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

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amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

Carter_Can_Fly said:

amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

Click to expand...

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

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They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...

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A) ExactlyB) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

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the play of the defense, combined with the play of the rest of the offense, makes the QB play almost irrelevant, imo. but feel free to indulge in your Manziel is the savior delusions of that makes you feel better.

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amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

Carter_Can_Fly said:

amnesiac said:

IHEARTFF said:

What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

Click to expand...

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

Click to expand...

They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...

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A) ExactlyB) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

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the play of the defense, combined with the play of the rest of the offense, makes the QB play almost irrelevant, imo. but feel free to indulge in your Manziel is the savior delusions of that makes you feel better.

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amnesiac said:

muffed punt. guess Cribbs would've caught that.

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PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Guess it's about time to crank up the 2016 Draft talk...

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PlasmaDogPlasma said:

Guess it's about time to crank up the 2016 Draft talk...

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daveR said:

Dr. Octopus said:

daveR said:

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

Click to expand...

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

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In my eyes (those of an optimistic homer) the Browns ARE a playoff caliber team. D-line good. LBs good. DBs excellent. O-line vg-ex. RBs good (and totally dependent on OL). WRs good. TEs meh.

All falls on QB play.

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Bobcat10 said:

The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

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georg013 said:

Duke has looked terrible. Just like Crowell. Only, Duke owners are willing to make more excuses for why Duke sucks.

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MAC_32 said:

Bobcat10 said:

The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

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McCown's play is the only reason we were in that position in the first place while the rest of the team played like dog ####.

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daveR said:

MAC_32 said:

Bobcat10 said:

The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

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McCown's play is the only reason we were in that position in the first place while the rest of the team played like dog ####.

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True. And that last play was a desperation throw after seeing 3-4 other guys covered.

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