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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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Of course he was concussed...I'm sure Haley kept reminding him on the sideline he was concussed.  Haley wasn't going to let him back in that game, Hue be damned.   Taylor: Coach, I can play.  I ju

Ryan Engle‏ @rengle83 13h13 hours ago I read the survival handbook for these situations. If you’re attacked by a Jermaine Whitehead, just pretend like you’re a tight end running at a moderate pac

This isn't going to be a "only positive comments allowed" type thing. But don't do what you did. And you know what you did. If you've got something constructive to discuss about how the team

I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

Probably not, but if McCown fails then the team fails and Johnny gets a trial late in the season. If the team is in the playoff hunt then McCown is likely playing adequately. It's a lot easier to go from the vet to the kid than the other way around. Pettine has insinuated he'd prefer this season be a redshirt for Manziel anyway. Probably the right move since he spent winter and spring getting his mind right rather than on football and he was already, clearly, way behind the 8 ball.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

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And I see the line of thinking with starting McCown this week. It's probably the right call and Pettine's comments on the matter make sense. But let's not mistake McCown for anything special. Game by game approach here...Manziel will be starting games again this season IMO.

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i don't understand why they would move away from McCown right now.

we haven't learned anything new about Manziel the last two weeks, have we?

i don't see "let the QB run around in circles and then launch the ball downfield" as a recipe for sustained sucess.

i'm glad it worked last week, but i trust Pettine if he doesn't think Manziel is ready to start just yet.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

Probably not, but if McCown fails then the team fails and Johnny gets a trial late in the season. If the team is in the playoff hunt then McCown is likely playing adequately. It's a lot easier to go from the vet to the kid than the other way around. Pettine has insinuated he'd prefer this season be a redshirt for Manziel anyway. Probably the right move since he spent winter and spring getting his mind right rather than on football and he was already, clearly, way behind the 8 ball.

Is there a link to this?

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

Probably not, but if McCown fails then the team fails and Johnny gets a trial late in the season. If the team is in the playoff hunt then McCown is likely playing adequately. It's a lot easier to go from the vet to the kid than the other way around. Pettine has insinuated he'd prefer this season be a redshirt for Manziel anyway. Probably the right move since he spent winter and spring getting his mind right rather than on football and he was already, clearly, way behind the 8 ball.

Is there a link to this?

If you can find one for all of his press conferences over the last 6 months or so then play connect the dots, but no I don't have one because I try to listen to them live or get the cliff notes from twitter if I can't listen.

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The run blocking didn't look like it was gelling in preseason and in the first game so I was looking for an update and found an excellent article just now.

Really good article from Football Oustsiders breaking down the Browns blocking. Great gifs that show examples, really good article.

Go to the link for the full read and to see examples/gifs of the O-Line in action.

--------------

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-cleveland-rocks

Cleveland Rocks ​

...this column gets to focus on something a little different: the Cleveland Browns' offensive line.

It was a bit of an up-and-down game for the unit overall. After a quarter and a half I was ready to declare my undying love and support to them, because I thought they came out absolutely gangbusters. Then they got bogged down a little in third quarter, before putting together a hell of a final drive to seal the game. The fact the offense ebbed and flowed almost entirely on the line's performance probably means that the quarterback controversy isn't as all-important as it may appear. I think the Browns offense is going to go as far as the offensive line can take them.

One area where there was no ebb and flow, only unrelenting awesomeness, was left tackle. Joe Thomas was fantastic throughout the game, particularly while run blocking...

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

Seems to me that Johnny's limited success in the Jets game was PROVEN to be fool's gold. Also seems that your opinion about how McCown would have fared throughout the remainder of the game is pure speculation based on your own prejudice.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

In my eyes (those of an optimistic homer) the Browns ARE a playoff caliber team. D-line good. LBs good. DBs excellent. O-line vg-ex. RBs good (and totally dependent on OL). WRs good. TEs meh.

All falls on QB play.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

Yeah, neither QB was going to do anything about the Jets domination up front.

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i don't understand why they would move away from McCown right now.

we haven't learned anything new about Manziel the last two weeks, have we?

i don't see "let the QB run around in circles and then launch the ball downfield" as a recipe for sustained sucess.

i'm glad it worked last week, but i trust Pettine if he doesn't think Manziel is ready to start just yet.

ya avoiding unblocked freak pass rushers and launching a pin point strike across his body to a streaking wr in stride with the game on the line is certainly something to scoff at.

listen, mccown makes that play exactly 0 times there. he gets sacked and the browns lose.

so ya, we have indeed learned a lot about manziel. dude can nail deep balls and avoid the rush.

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I question how much validity the "quarterback of the future" concept contains. I'm pretty sure McCown will last 3-4 more years unless he blows out a knee or something. That should be enough time to groom his eventual replacement, no? The two goals, "win now" and "develop Johnny" don't need to be mutually exclusive, do they?

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I question how much validity the "quarterback of the future" concept contains. I'm pretty sure McCown will last 3-4 more years unless he blows out a knee or something. That should be enough time to groom his eventual replacement, no? The two goals, "win now" and "develop Johnny" don't need to be mutually exclusive, do they?

You want Josh McCown quarterbacking your team at 37, 38, 39 and 40 years old?

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36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

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36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

In fairness he got injured trying to do a stupid thing.

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36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

In fairness he got injured trying to do a stupid thing.

I don't think saying he did a stupid thing helps his case.

He did a REALLY STUPID THING because he was warned before that game to not try and be superman but he still went out and did it so if anything that works against him staying healthy all year.

>>

Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 5h5 hours ago

#Browns OC Flip: "I told the guys this morning that no one has to go out and play like Superman for us to win this game"

Way to coach`em up, Flip.

Probably directed at QB Josh McCowan who took some unnecessary hits in the third preseason game when he ran and didn't slide and another time when he held onto the ball took long and got rocked by a linebacker. If Josh goes down Johnny is the only backup who knows the offense and he has been suffering from tendinitis and only recently began throwing again.

Other than Josh I don't know who he would have been addressing.

Yup.

------

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/browns-qb-josh-mccown-suffers-concussion-jets-article-1.2358803

Browns QB Josh McCown suffers concussion vs. Jets, Johnny Manziel takes over for Cleveland ​

McCown fumbles the ball at the goal line on the play. He will not return to action Sunday.​

------

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36 (2015), 37, 38.

Doesn't matter how old he is if he's a better QB. Neither was that the point. There's no reason I can see (blind homer) that you can't do both.

QB Josh McCowan couldn't last one series against the Jets before he got himself concussed. He's not going to last this season let alone three or four.

how sad is it that the browns FO has us conditioned to accept crap QB play.

when does it end?

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

Seems to me that Johnny's limited success in the Jets game was PROVEN to be fool's gold. Also seems that your opinion about how McCown would have fared throughout the remainder of the game is pure speculation based on your own prejudice.

Speculation is all we have. Are you also not speculating on McCown? You're talking about one drive. Didn't seem like we were beating the Jets when we couldn't block for ####.

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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

McCown looked good for one drive against the Jets that led to zero points. Manziel looked good against the Jets too for one drive, I believe one that resulted in points. I find it interesting that you seem to think McCown would have flourished the rest of the Jets game. Seems to me that both of their first drives were fools gold in that game. The result was likely inevitable.

Seems to me that Johnny's limited success in the Jets game was PROVEN to be fool's gold. Also seems that your opinion about how McCown would have fared throughout the remainder of the game is pure speculation based on your own prejudice.

Speculation is all we have. Are you also not speculating on McCown? You're talking about one drive. Didn't seem like we were beating the Jets when we couldn't block for ####.

We were dominating that game until JF$ came in. Impossible to deny his fumbles.

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What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...

A) Exactly

B) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

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What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...
A) Exactly

B) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

the play of the defense, combined with the play of the rest of the offense, makes the QB play almost irrelevant, imo.

but feel free to indulge in your Manziel is the savior delusions of that makes you feel better.

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What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...
A) Exactly

B) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

the play of the defense, combined with the play of the rest of the offense, makes the QB play almost irrelevant, imo.

but feel free to indulge in your Manziel is the savior delusions of that makes you feel better.

You're missing the point. Let me simplify it for you:

Mccown sucks and everyone already knows that. The Browns aren't going anywhere this season. JFF might suck or he might be good. If you find that answer out this year, your next draft is easier.

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What a surprise, Mccown still sucks. Figure out what you have with JFF, you idiots.

defense looks like absolute crap, yet people are still focused on Manziel.

They scored 3 points this half at home vs Oakland...
A) Exactly

B) What does the defense sucking have to do with making the correct decision at qb?

the play of the defense, combined with the play of the rest of the offense, makes the QB play almost irrelevant, imo.

but feel free to indulge in your Manziel is the savior delusions of that makes you feel better.

the scorching hot takes from those not watching this trash should be fun.
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I posted this disclaimer in another thread. Here we go again... I never saw Johnny play in college. I have only his NFL stuff to base my opinion on. I saw McCown look pretty good against an excellent Jets D, until he was knocked out of the game. I saw Johnny suck afterward. I saw Johnny complete 8 passes against TEN, perhaps a lesser D. I saw Johnny put the ball on the ground a couple MORE times.

The ONLY thing he does better is ad lib. Will he develop into a pocket passer (ala Brady, Luck, Manning, Rodgers, etc, etc...) ? I don't know, but I'm not willing to give up on this team in the meantime.

Face the facts, right now McCown is better.

We have a whole (non) career to base McCown on, not one series against the Jets where he caught a few breaks. I doubt that game turns out any differently if McCown didn't get injured on his fumble play.

I also wouldn't disagree that McCown is likely a little better than Manziel right now - but that's hardly the point. I know it's too early for teams to punt on the season, but does anyone realistically think the Browns are going to the playoffs with McCown at QB? Personally I'm not even a fan of Manziel. As a Jets fan before the locker room incident I would have said that the team should have went with Geno even though I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB (and I had very little faith in Geno) since my team needs to see what they have and if they need to continue addressing the position. After that incident, it told me the guy isn't a leader and will never be an NFL QB. Manziel on the other hand has taken steps to address his "demons", and he's looked like there's at least some chance he could be an NFL QB.

The Browns are very likely to win this week and be 2-1 so I do realize that they want to keep hope alive, I'm just not sure that its not false hope at the expense of doing what's best for your franchise.

In my eyes (those of an optimistic homer) the Browns ARE a playoff caliber team. D-line good. LBs good. DBs excellent. O-line vg-ex. RBs good (and totally dependent on OL). WRs good. TEs meh.

All falls on QB play.

##### it all. That was freakin' ugly. I take it all back. This die-hard fan has died.

I GIVE UP! :wall: :wall: :wall:

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The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

McCown's play is the only reason we were in that position in the first place while the rest of the team played like dog ####.
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The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

McCown's play is the only reason we were in that position in the first place while the rest of the team played like dog ####.

True. And that last play was a desperation throw after seeing 3-4 other guys covered.

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The last throw of the game was so bad on so many levels. I'd rather watch Johnny ####### Fumble. Once again we are a team full of backup NFL QBs.

McCown's play is the only reason we were in that position in the first place while the rest of the team played like dog ####.

True. And that last play was a desperation throw after seeing 3-4 other guys covered.

C'mon dude. :wall:

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