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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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So is this the FO way of showing support to Manziel, but ultimately giving up on the season to secure the 1st pick in the draft?

bingo.

Not really, if this team is picking #1 then they're probably getting fired. This is management's hail mary to save their jobs.

I didnt read this before my last post. Agreed.

If they went back to Mccown that does NOTHING for anyone, especially Farmer, no matter how they finish up.

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didn't Pettine sign a 5 year deal?

gotta think he gets one more year.

from jan 2014:

The Big Owe: Cleveland Browns have paid or are paying six head coaches about $49 million not to work

now not all of those were Haslam (most weren't), but Chud was fired 1 year into a 4 year deal. Haslam has not shown that the length of a deal has any correlation to when he pulls the trigger. I have stated before I think he needs to let this play out, I am not sure he will.

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So is this the FO way of showing support to Manziel, but ultimately giving up on the season to secure the 1st pick in the draft?

Not at all.

You dont need to support Johnny at all to know it makes sense to see what he has. It might be the only way to keep their jobs. If he shows SOMETHING they can try to say they found their QB and maybe be given another year.

Pettine was supposedly a defensive guru and they totally suck on defense this year. Last year wasn't bad for the defense though. The offense hasn't been in the top 25 since 2007 which is amazing. The drafting has been terrible and that is on the GM's.

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So is this the FO way of showing support to Manziel, but ultimately giving up on the season to secure the 1st pick in the draft?

Not at all.

You dont need to support Johnny at all to know it makes sense to see what he has. It might be the only way to keep their jobs. If he shows SOMETHING they can try to say they found their QB and maybe be given another year.

Pettine was supposedly a defensive guru and they totally suck on defense this year. Last year wasn't bad for the defense though. The offense hasn't been in the top 25 since 2007 which is amazing. The drafting has been terrible and that is on the GM's.

And??

I think they all get fired, and should. Farmer especially. They should have a special ceremony for how bad he is.

Edited by ghostguy123
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So is this the FO way of showing support to Manziel, but ultimately giving up on the season to secure the 1st pick in the draft?

Not at all.

You dont need to support Johnny at all to know it makes sense to see what he has. It might be the only way to keep their jobs. If he shows SOMETHING they can try to say they found their QB and maybe be given another year.

Pettine was supposedly a defensive guru and they totally suck on defense this year. Last year wasn't bad for the defense though.
He put his faith in O'Neil, spent more time with the offense, got burned, then dug his heels in when it was clear it wasn't working and refused to adjust.
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Yawn. Does anyone expect him to play better in his next game than his last game?

Defense & discipline are their biggest problems. In fact, the passing game has been the best part of the team aside from the punter.

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Even players are starting to comment on how this season has turned for the worse:

Kevin Jones @ Mr_KevinJones 30m 30 minutes ago

Browns player to me via text: "This season has been an absolute #### show."

Why would any coach or FA want to come play for CLE next year? Whether it is blown up or some consistency is maintained, it looks like the organization can't control itself and is spiraling out of control. It makes the draft picks all the more necessary to continue building the roster. Gonna be a long row to hoe with this one.

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It sucks, and nobody ever likes it, but we need a complete house cleaning. I don't mean a rebuild, I mean complete expansion style suck a fat one on purpose for the next couple years complete tear down. It is the ONLY way we will EVER have a chance.

It means trading Thomas, Haden, and anyone else above the age of 26 or 27 who has any significant trade value.

Coaches, GM, scouts, I mean EVERYONE.

It might be the only way to sell the jobs to qualified people. The "spinning the wheels crap" gets us nowhere, and nobody to lead us there. Maybe we try a new approach and maybe just maybe a whole new start and growth of a "new" franchise from the gound up might be appealing to someone who is actually good at what they do and motivated to try to build a team that way. Plus money talks, and there is no salary cap for coaches and player personel people.

MIght be a little out of the box thinking for some, but anything is better than going into 2016 with BS intentions of winning. What a joke that would be, and anyone with any sense who is a coach, GM, or whoever would see right through that trash.

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Why not just cut him then? If he's such a distraction, why continue to do this? It's not like Pettine thinks Manziel has any talent like say Gordon.

What makes you think they won't?

It's been like, a half a day since they benched him.

Surely they considered all their options leading up to the demotion...or like every week for that matter.

Considering the people calling the shots, you might be right though.

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It sucks, and nobody ever likes it, but we need a complete house cleaning. I don't mean a rebuild, I mean complete expansion style suck a fat one on purpose for the next couple years complete tear down. It is the ONLY way we will EVER have a chance.

It means trading Thomas, Haden, and anyone else above the age of 26 or 27 who has any significant trade value.

Coaches, GM, scouts, I mean EVERYONE.

It might be the only way to sell the jobs to qualified people. The "spinning the wheels crap" gets us nowhere, and nobody to lead us there. Maybe we try a new approach and maybe just maybe a whole new start and growth of a "new" franchise from the gound up might be appealing to someone who is actually good at what they do and motivated to try to build a team that way. Plus money talks, and there is no salary cap for coaches and player personel people.

MIght be a little out of the box thinking for some, but anything is better than going into 2016 with BS intentions of winning. What a joke that would be, and anyone with any sense who is a coach, GM, or whoever would see right through that trash.

That can be hard if you have owners who keep hiring the same types of people.

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It sucks, and nobody ever likes it, but we need a complete house cleaning. I don't mean a rebuild, I mean complete expansion style suck a fat one on purpose for the next couple years complete tear down. It is the ONLY way we will EVER have a chance.

It means trading Thomas, Haden, and anyone else above the age of 26 or 27 who has any significant trade value.

Coaches, GM, scouts, I mean EVERYONE.

It might be the only way to sell the jobs to qualified people. The "spinning the wheels crap" gets us nowhere, and nobody to lead us there. Maybe we try a new approach and maybe just maybe a whole new start and growth of a "new" franchise from the gound up might be appealing to someone who is actually good at what they do and motivated to try to build a team that way. Plus money talks, and there is no salary cap for coaches and player personel people.

MIght be a little out of the box thinking for some, but anything is better than going into 2016 with BS intentions of winning. What a joke that would be, and anyone with any sense who is a coach, GM, or whoever would see right through that trash.

That can be hard if you have owners who keep hiring the same types of people.

I also think the owner is limited in his choices. It doesnt mean he isnt an idiot, but I do think Haslem doesnt exactly have people lining up to come here.

If a huge total tear down doesnt draw anyone in, so be it. Even if it doesnt I still think it is the best move for the franchise if it ever wants to win anything ever again.

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Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 3h3 hours ago

The Browns have drafted four QBs in the first round since coming back into the league in '99. Tim Couch was the most successful of them.

...And if Manziel is done w/the Browns after this year, that means their last 3 1st-round QBs will have lasted a TOTAL of 7 yrs with the team.

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While I agree a house cleaning needs to be done, Haslam can't keep firing people and keep paying them. I think Brace put up a post pages back detailing how much money Haslam is spending on previous staffs. That kind of negative cash flow is not enticing to any business. Odds are some or all may stay. I can see an addition come in as President of football ops, maybe a new DC, but not a complete overhaul.

With the instability in the coaching staff, I can't see any quality free agents coming. There may be some just looking for a big payday, but how well do they work out?

I just don't see how they'll turn this thing around next year. The team/franchise seems to take a tiny step forward only to take three leaps back. Frustrating, yet predictable.

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I understand that some of you think you can't just keep firing people. Sorry, but when you know, you just know.

Yes consistency is incredibly important, but consistent SUCK can not continue to keep it's job.

If we find someone who doesnt show to be an incredible buffoon then sure, we can give them the benefit of the doubt and let them stay a couple extra years to see how it pans out. Farmer?? Good god, he HAS to go. Quadruple improvement would still be total suck.

As for free agents, I dont want to sign any this offseason anyway. I want 15 draft picks and suck for the #1 in 2017.

You all wanna win. Well sorry, we need to suck to ever have any chance to win. It needs to happen. We will not be winning any time soon no matter what we do, so I would rather do it right and gain as much future value as possible using expiring assets and high picks.

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I agree with you ghost, but I just don't see it happening. There needs to be change, but at what cost? It's easy to say fire everyone and start over when it's not our money paying these buffoons for the next few years.

I don't think we'll have an issue with performance next year, as well continue to suck due to either no change or another influx of young players (drafted and undrafted).

There are too many holes to fill hete:

QB

WR

Run Defense

Pass Defense

DC

HC

GM

I like what I see out of Duke, and the oline isn't terrible - but we need depth. The entire defense should get an overhaul. St hasn't been bad, but that is probably the most consistent group on the roster.

I say keep losing. Draft Lynch or Goff. Hope Gordon comes back with his head on straight. If not, trade or cut him. Move Manziel or cut him. Replace the GM or the HC. Find a new DC. I like Flip. Keep him on for the next group of young QBs.

I hat going through change, but I do get excited when I think of what could be and hope for the best. I guess I'm too delusional to think it will get better.

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I agree with you ghost, but I just don't see it happening.get better.

Well of course it isn't going to happen. But it NEEDS to if we want anything to ever change for the better.

and bring in the next shurmur mangini da weeden chud quinn savage romeo colt heckert
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I agree with you ghost, but I just don't see it happening.get better.

Well of course it isn't going to happen. But it NEEDS to if we want anything to ever change for the better.

and bring in the next shurmur mangini da weeden chud quinn savage romeo colt heckert

I would rather bring in the next one than keep the current one.

Change is always a better option when the current is total suck

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I am sure people will be lining up to coach a team with a ####ty offense, ####ty defense, ####ty ownership, a loser's mentality, and zero impact players.

You don't read what people write.

Nobody is saying they are, or that they will.

What we need to do is get the team to the point where some sort of good coach and/or GM or other personnel would want to come here. It just isn't going to be any time soon. In order to do that, we need the ultimate house cleaning. Trade all assets. I don't care what we do with any coach or any front office person, cause it does not matter. We need to completely clean house in such a drastic way that we do anything and everything we can to get the most value we possible can in draft picks for 2016, 2017, 2018...............

The only CHANCE (and yes it is a chance, this sure may not work with idiots drafting) we have at this is to create a young team with potential, with a couple good looking drafts to look forward to, and a good cap situation.

For example, total suckatude for 2016 and 2017, all young players, and make sure the 2018 and 2019 drafts have multiple 1st and 2nd round picks.

We are gonna suck anyway, at least this way we have a CHANCE to acquire talent which might lead to a CHANCE that someone competent will WANT to come here to try and use that young, cap, and picks to build a winner.

Without this, we are 4-12 for the next decade, status quo.

GGs initial plan is to figure out who might be a good GM, offer them the world to allow them to do the picking, and hope we can land someone good at it. There HAS to be a good GM that wants to be overpaid, right? Right??

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It wouldn’t have been popular, but I was all for us trading Joe Thomas if Denver offered a first and a second rounder. There are going to have to be some band aids ripped off. Let the guy experience some success while he’s still an elite talent and we can stockpile picks. Even Ray Farmer could hit on one out of four of the top 60-ish players.

The problem is we’ve got band aids over lacerations and they ain’t doing any good.

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What we need to do is get the team to the point where some sort of good coach and/or GM or other personnel would want to come here. It just isn't going to be any time soon. In order to do that, we need the ultimate house cleaning.

So you want to get the team to where a good GM and/or coach would want to come aboard? Wouldn't it require a good coach/GM to get you there?

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What we need to do is get the team to the point where some sort of good coach and/or GM or other personnel would want to come here. It just isn't going to be any time soon. In order to do that, we need the ultimate house cleaning.

So you want to get the team to where a good GM and/or coach would want to come aboard? Wouldn't it require a good coach/GM to get you there?

:goodposting:

Hopeless.

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Yeah but how about their D in this next matchup?

the defense is one of the worst in the league.

It's a thoroughly depleted Baltimore team and on Monday Night. Tremblay has them ranked 2nd. Dodds 4th.
I'm all for creative thinking, but all this says to me is they haven't watched much of this defense this year. It's New Orleans bad.
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I agree with you ghost, but I just don't see it happening.get better.

Well of course it isn't going to happen. But it NEEDS to if we want anything to ever change for the better.

and bring in the next shurmur mangini da weeden chud quinn savage romeo colt heckert

I would rather bring in the next one than keep the current one.

Change is always a better option when the current is total suck

i disagree

no one will take this job as long as the timeline is 2 years. This team is a wreck and needs more than 2 years to fix. If that is the timeline any good candidate will pass. Haslam needs to show he can stand by a decision.

If you change now you'll be changing again in 2017/2018

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Yeah but how about their D in this next matchup?

the defense is one of the worst in the league.
It's a thoroughly depleted Baltimore team and on Monday Night. Tremblay has them ranked 2nd. Dodds 4th.
I'm all for creative thinking, but all this says to me is they haven't watched much of this defense this year. It's New Orleans bad.

The teams they played this year were not the trash bin they face Monday. No Smith, Flacco or Forsett. And they come off a bye for a rare nationally televised game.

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What we need to do is get the team to the point where some sort of good coach and/or GM or other personnel would want to come here. It just isn't going to be any time soon. In order to do that, we need the ultimate house cleaning.

So you want to get the team to where a good GM and/or coach would want to come aboard? Wouldn't it require a good coach/GM to get you there?

Not necessarily, no. It would help, but it's not going to happen.

Give an average or even below average GM enough quality and value in draft picks, hope and pray they can hit on enough of them to give the team some sort of talented group of players, along with a decent stockpile of picks over the following two years, and maybe we can get someone.

This tear down ugly process would take at least 2 years to get to that point, at least. But IMO it is the only way

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What we need to do is get the team to the point where some sort of good coach and/or GM or other personnel would want to come here. It just isn't going to be any time soon. In order to do that, we need the ultimate house cleaning.

So you want to get the team to where a good GM and/or coach would want to come aboard? Wouldn't it require a good coach/GM to get you there?

:goodposting:

Hopeless.

Correct, this team is hopeless.

However, I am thinking about what would give us the best possible chance to be good at some point in the future. To me, this is it.

It's not likely to work, but a 10% chance is better than the zero % chance we are staring at if we keep trying to start each year competing.

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I agree with you ghost, but I just don't see it happening.get better.

Well of course it isn't going to happen. But it NEEDS to if we want anything to ever change for the better.

and bring in the next shurmur mangini da weeden chud quinn savage romeo colt heckert

I would rather bring in the next one than keep the current one.

Change is always a better option when the current is total suck

i disagree

no one will take this job as long as the timeline is 2 years. This team is a wreck and needs more than 2 years to fix. If that is the timeline any good candidate will pass. Haslam needs to show he can stand by a decision.

If you change now you'll be changing again in 2017/2018

So? If you DON'T change now you will still be changing in 2017/2018.

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