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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single person, locally or nationally, that thinks this management arrangement with Sashi Brown having final say is a good idea.

 
GordonGekko said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
As far as I can tell, there isn't a single person, locally or nationally, that thinks this management arrangement with Sashi Brown having final say is a good idea.
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A lot of GM's and owners either outright don't listen to their scouts or dismiss their findings. Others suffer from "groupthink" where scouts will temper or shade their views depending on the front office situation because they don't want to be seen as an outsider or "that guy" who starts to look like a consistent contrarian.

Bill Belichick, for all his other personality flaws, keeps it simple. You work for him, you can have any opinion on any player or prospect you want, all he asks is you do the real grind it out legwork to articulate and explain your position on said player/prospect.

Lots of good, I mean very good scouts in the league, but they are paid to advise, not make decisions. If the Browns do a good job of arming up their scouting department, getting the right people in play and giving them the room to do their jobs ( i.e. evaluate without fear of reprisal or internal politics or getting whacked in a power play) and this Brown guy can translate that to some good drafts, then all hope is not lost.

Having a guy with ZERO league experience is a kiss of death. This is not the case here.

Again, someone not immersed in the league's copycat incestuous front office and coaching circle, that might not be the craziest thing in the world. People thought 30 ish Ivy Leaguers with deep economics backgrounds would be an insane choice to be a MLB GM too. How'd that turn out?

I'll give this Brown guy a chance. Why not. Crazier things have happened.

PS Frank Reich just got fired. Guy didn't stop understanding the QB position or how to coach. Guys like this, where the most recent buzz is less than stellar, but there is some actual developmental pedigree in their system, this is what the Browns should be chasing. Good coaches who lost some luster recently but would be happy and grateful for a franchise to really believe in them. It's not a sign of faith if a team now signs David Shaw to coach. That's following the buzz, which isn't bad either. However, it is a sign of faith to go after a Reich. Which I don't think would be the worst thing in the world.
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Browns 2016: Why Not? Crazier Things Have Happened.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
GordonGekko said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
As far as I can tell, there isn't a single person, locally or nationally, that thinks this management arrangement with Sashi Brown having final say is a good idea.
Click to expand...
A lot of GM's and owners either outright don't listen to their scouts or dismiss their findings. Others suffer from "groupthink" where scouts will temper or shade their views depending on the front office situation because they don't want to be seen as an outsider or "that guy" who starts to look like a consistent contrarian. Bill Belichick, for all his other personality flaws, keeps it simple. You work for him, you can have any opinion on any player or prospect you want, all he asks is you do the real grind it out legwork to articulate and explain your position on said player/prospect.

Lots of good, I mean very good scouts in the league, but they are paid to advise, not make decisions. If the Browns do a good job of arming up their scouting department, getting the right people in play and giving them the room to do their jobs ( i.e. evaluate without fear of reprisal or internal politics or getting whacked in a power play) and this Brown guy can translate that to some good drafts, then all hope is not lost.

Having a guy with ZERO league experience is a kiss of death. This is not the case here.

Again, someone not immersed in the league's copycat incestuous front office and coaching circle, that might not be the craziest thing in the world. People thought 30 ish Ivy Leaguers with deep economics backgrounds would be an insane choice to be a MLB GM too. How'd that turn out?

I'll give this Brown guy a chance. Why not. Crazier things have happened.

PS Frank Reich just got fired. Guy didn't stop understanding the QB position or how to coach. Guys like this, where the most recent buzz is less than stellar, but there is some actual developmental pedigree in their system, this is what the Browns should be chasing. Good coaches who lost some luster recently but would be happy and grateful for a franchise to really believe in them. It's not a sign of faith if a team now signs David Shaw to coach. That's following the buzz, which isn't bad either. However, it is a sign of faith to go after a Reich. Which I don't think would be the worst thing in the world.
Click to expand...
Browns 2016: Why Not? Crazier Things Have Happened.
Click to expand...
this needs to be the new thread title.
 
B-Deep said:
Dr. Octopus said:
B-Deep said:
Bobcat10 said:
Thought that didn't make much sense. Oh boy, so the pool of scouts is out the door.

Anyways, I'd think if the person wanted to interview, the other team would allow it, in most cases.
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i would think so, and we cannot be sure that florio is correct.

If so, though, it is a pretty big tactical blunder
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It's not only the permission thing though. Top candidates aren't going to want to take a GM position where they already start off somewhat emasculated by not having final say on roster decisions.
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very true
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I think the only tactical blunder is that they set it in stone right off the rip. Top candidates probably aren't taking the GM spot whether it happened as it has, or Haslam tells the candidate (during or before the interview) "oh ya, so this Sashi guy is going to have final say, sign here". Sashi was the guy either way, that fact wasn't changing. You can't trick a GM to run your team then pull the rug from under his feet. Maybe being up front and showing there is a plan in place carries some kind of weight, especially when Berea is perceived as a sinkhole, to the 2nd tier guys or possibly some of the top guys.

 
I've never heard of half of these guys and the ones I do know are way past their prime.

Most of these guys never had a prime.

 
----Dwayne Bowe pulling up to the practice field----

"I thought we didn't have any high priced talent"

"Forgot about Bowe, cause he's only high priced"

********NOW I'm done

 
Bobcat10 said:
Sashi is hiring Paul DePodesta (Moneyball dude). Analytics here we come!
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OMG he really is THEE Money Ball DUDE.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/01/05/browns-hire-baseball-executive-depodesta-to-direct-strategy/78306518/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatodaycomnfl-topstories

...DePodesta began his baseball career as an intern with the Indians in 1996 and became an advance scout and special assistant to the general manager. He worked in Oakland alongside GM Billy Beane, whose "Moneyball" strategies helped theAthletics overcome budget constraints and win.

DePodesta also worked for the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Diego Padres. DePodesta admitted he has a lot to learn but he wants "nothing more than to help bring consistent, championship caliber football back to Cleveland."
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It worked for Athletics so if it works for the Browns everyone will not only be investing in they might even start paying attention to their saber metric staffs.

 
Try not to think of DePodesta as a baseball guy trying his hand at football, but a footballguy who tried his hand at baseball.

DePodesta played football in college and wanted to be a football coach. After graduating from Harvard with a degree in economics, he became an intern for the Canadian Football League's Baltimore Stallions in 1995
Click to expand...
 
I like this signing. What CLE, and especially Haslam, have done clearly wasn't working so bringing in someone who has proven to be successful and has a different perspective could be a good move. That said, Haslam has to let his people do their jobs and listen to them when they make recommendations. If what Amnesiac said about the $100,000 report about Manziel is true, then bringing in DePodesta won't matter or help.

 
Maybe Jimmy learned a valuable lesson with the Billy Manziel saga.

Maybe DePo, Sashi, and the next GM will have the stones Farmer didn't have. Let's also not forget Gilbert was a Pettine pick. Farmer didn't even make a pick in the 1st round that year.

 
Bobcat10 said:
B-Deep said:
I think Haslam hired him. From what i heard he reports directly to Haslam, not up through Sashi.
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True, but that doesn't mean Sashi isn't all aboard. I personally think this hiring has Sashi's fingerprints all over it.
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Right.

And sashi seems to have the final say on players. SO one would think he would have had to sign off on this.

The only concern is they still don;t have a football guy. He's hired some really smart people, but not football people. Hopefully he hires a good football guy as GM and then if they work as a team this could go well

 
With two Harvard grads in charge the Browns won't be trying to be the smartest guys in the room, they WILL be lol. But seriously looking into DePodesta's old blog he mentioned two key dates of the baseball calendar that might give a hint on what he might do with the Browns.

From August 17, 2010

--------

http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/.

...The two most notable deadlines in baseball, the trading deadline and the signing deadline...
Click to expand...
You would have to think these guys, Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta will never have any issues figuring out the cap/contracts and if you took a careful look at Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi they did a great job of getting rid of older expensive players and they did a great job trading away players who weren't effective any longer, i.e., RB Trent Richardson, and they made a small but really nice little draft day trade with Pittsburgh of a 4th round pick for a future 3rd round pick.

That is before bringing up things like how Pettine would always defer kicking off to start a game so his offense would take the field to start the 3rd quarter. I think we will see more on-field smaller type decisions that deal with football logic and playing percentages.

Off the field I have to think that if DePodesta has a say and some juice in decision making that we will not be hesitant to trade away older veteran players

EDIT: Just saw Grossi tweeted this>>>

Tony Grossi ‏@TonyGrossi 33m33 minutes ago
Analytics will conclude now is the time for #Browns to trade Joe Thomas.

and we might make some forward-thinking trades where we might give up a lesser asset today for a larger future asset.

Too many football guys/coaches former players etc in front offices lack vision and are short sighted where they are only looking at today because they know they might be here tomorrow so they gladly will take a player or draft pick today and give up a more in the future.

Add the more I have heard about people who have met Sashi...... They love the guy. They think he's super smart, upbeat, and no one who knows him or has spent any significant amount of time around him thinks he will fail.

Shakes head. I love the DePodesta hire and am starting to come around on Sashi.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bobcat10 said:
Sashi is hiring Paul DePodesta (Moneyball dude). Analytics here we come!
Click to expand...
OMG he really is THEE Money Ball DUDE.
Click to expand...
Poor guy didn't make it into the movie.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they not only changed his character's name but he was played by Jonah Hill and quite frankly, in real life he looks more like Brad Pitt who played the character of Billy Beane.

And for anyone who hasn't seen the movie Moneyball, its REALLY GOOD!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210166/

 
Bracie Smathers said:
With two Harvard grads in charge the Browns won't be trying to be the smartest guys in the room, they WILL be lol. But seriously looking into DePodesta's old blog he mentioned two key dates of the baseball calendar that might give a hint on what he might do with the Browns.

From August 17, 2010

--------

http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/.

...The two most notable deadlines in baseball, the trading deadline and the signing deadline...
Click to expand...
You would have to think these guys, Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta will never have any issues figuring out the cap/contracts and if you took a careful look at Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi they did a great job of getting rid of older expensive players and they did a great job trading away players who weren't effective any longer, i.e., RB Trent Richardson, and they made a small but really nice little draft day trade with Pittsburgh of a 4th round pick for a future 3rd round pick.

That is before bringing up things like how Pettine would always defer kicking off to start a game so his offense would take the field to start the 3rd quarter. I think we will see more on-field smaller type decisions that deal with football logic and playing percentages.

Off the field I have to think that if DePodesta has a say and some juice in decision making that we will not be hesitant to trade away older veteran players

EDIT: Just saw Grossi tweeted this>>>

Tony Grossi ‏@TonyGrossi 33m33 minutes ago
Analytics will conclude now is the time for #Browns to trade Joe Thomas.

and we might make some forward-thinking trades where we might give up a lesser asset today for a larger future asset.

Too many football guys/coaches former players etc in front offices lack vision and are short sighted where they are only looking at today because they know they might be here tomorrow so they gladly will take a player or draft pick today and give up a more in the future.

Add the more I have heard about people who have met Sashi...... They love the guy. They think he's super smart, upbeat, and no one who knows him or has spent any significant amount of time around him thinks he will fail.

Shakes head. I love the DePodesta hire and am starting to come around on Sashi.
Click to expand...
All of this is predicated on one thing, patience.

In all honesty, we have no indication so far that Haslam has that quality.

 
Seems like we are much more aggressive in the coaching search this time. Seven lined up already. This could be due to Jed Hughes involvement. Hopefully more to come, because with what has happened since Sunday night they need the right guy to be part of the collaborative group. I'm still intrigued by Patricia, but there are some good names on the list.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Bobcat10 said:
Sashi is hiring Paul DePodesta (Moneyball dude). Analytics here we come!
Click to expand...
OMG he really is THEE Money Ball DUDE.
Click to expand...
Poor guy didn't make it into the movie.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they not only changed his character's name but he was played by Jonah Hill and quite frankly, in real life he looks more like Brad Pitt who played the character of Billy Beane.And for anyone who hasn't seen the movie Moneyball, its REALLY GOOD!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210166/
Click to expand...
The role was originally going to be given DePodesta's name and portrayed by Demetri Martin. Since DePodesta did not want his name or likeness to be used in the movie, instead the character of "Peter Brand" was created. It is a composite of Beane's assistants [20] in Oakland, as the character is not an accurate representation of any specific real-life person
Click to expand...
 
Can't say Cleveland isn't thinking outside the box.

Could it be any worse than what has transpired there over the last many years? They are vitrually the only team I feel do it worse than the Phins but that might be about to change.

If they hired anyone else the fans and media would grieve about it, this is ballsy and the fans deserve a chance for some hope. 5 coaching changes vs none for the rest of your division the last 7 years? You know where you are as an organization.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
If they hired anyone else the fans and media would grieve about it, this is ballsy and the fans deserve a chance for some hope. 5 coaching changes vs none for the rest of your division the last 7 years? You know where you are as an organization.
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I don't have a problem with the people hired, it's the structure they are setting up that is disturbing.

 
Cleveland definitely qualifies as the wrong media market.

Bill has a history of not letting his coaches look for a promotion elsewhere if they wanted to?

 
"Former Browns CEO Joe Banner pushed analytics when he was with the team in 2013. He sponsored the now-famous $100,000 quarterback study on the 2014 draft that ranked Teddy Bridgewater as the best prospect. The report also rated Derek Carr and Blake Bortles highly.

Johnny Manziel was red flagged and ranked low."

sometimes i remember stuff.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
amnesiac said:
"Former Browns CEO Joe Banner pushed analytics when he was with the team in 2013. He sponsored the now-famous $100,000 quarterback study on the 2014 draft that ranked Teddy Bridgewater as the best prospect. The report also rated Derek Carr and Blake Bortles highly.

Johnny Manziel was red flagged and ranked low."

sometimes i remember stuff.
Click to expand...
Scouting reports, analytics, draft boards, etc are useless if you don't interpret them properly or ignore findings or let outside influences (like the owner) change minds. I think we are in a better place right now...very intelligent people are taking up corner offices in Berea...but much still has to be proved.

 
Bobcat10 said:
amnesiac said:
"Former Browns CEO Joe Banner pushed analytics when he was with the team in 2013. He sponsored the now-famous $100,000 quarterback study on the 2014 draft that ranked Teddy Bridgewater as the best prospect. The report also rated Derek Carr and Blake Bortles highly.

Johnny Manziel was red flagged and ranked low."

sometimes i remember stuff.
Click to expand...
Scouting reports, analytics, draft boards, etc are useless if you don't interpret them properly or ignore findings or let outside influences (like the owner) change minds. I think we are in a better place right now...very intelligent people are taking up corner offices in Berea...but much still has to be proved.
Click to expand...
It can't get worse, right? Right???

 
How hard would it be to tell Gase "here is double what they are paying you". I mean if they really want him, pay him.

Who is going to turn down DOUBLE? At least try, geeze.

I dont even care if it is Gase or not. Whoever. Get who you want. Pay

 
i know Pettine lost way too many games, but with the new structure, i really don't understand why they fired him.

 
Pettine needed to go. With all this huge change going on, there was no reason to keep him. He would basically be starting fresh anyway, so may as well get a new guy.

Besides, NOTHING about Pettine can't be easily replaced. He is a total JAG at coach

 
Hard to agree that teams should want the offensive mind and QB whisperer at HC when most of the last Super Bowl winning coaches came up as DCs, while a lot of their QB gurus won their Super Bowls as position coaches then bombed as HCs.

Haven't added them all up, but pretty sure there have been a lot more successful DC to HC transitions than OC to HC, even in the modern era only.

 
Belichick- DCoordinator

Carroll- DCoordinator

Harbaugh- Spcl Tm Coordinator

Coughlin- Wide Receiver Coach

McCarthy- OCoordinator

Payton- OCoordinator

Tomlin- DCoordinator

Dungy- DCoordinator

Cowher- DCoordinator

Gruden- OCoordinator

Billick- OCoordinator

Vermeil- College OC

 
it's still mind boggling to me that they hired a HC and GM with no experience and then fired them after 2 years.

what did they expect?

 
amnesiac said:
it's still mind boggling to me that they hired a HC and GM with no experience and then fired them after 2 years.

what did they expect?
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For the inexperienced head coach to NOT hire his buddy, an inexperienced defensive coordinator who had the second least NFL experience of ANY defensive coordinator in the National Football League.

The DC with less experience is in Seattle and he worked for that organization for years as an assistant and he also played as a player for that club so he was familiar with the scheme and the players. Basically that was a totally different situation than Jim O'Neil who only had one year as a full-time NFL positional coach before he became an NFL defensive coordinator. He had no reason running an NFL defense.

Horrible decision and utter MADNESS which explains why we sucked so bad on defense.

Oh and I'm sure they didn't expect the offensive coordinator to QUIT after his first season so the head coach could hire another buddy, yet ANOTHER inexperienced coordinator to run his offense. DeFilippo actually did a damn good job but we probably were the only team in the NFL with an:

- inexperienced GM

- inexperienced HC

- inexperienced DC

- inexperienced OC

 
i guess my point is that if i were to hire an employee with zero experience, i would fully expect them to #### up for the first couple of years and then expect to see improvement.

 
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