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Cleveland Browns (18 Viewers)

ghostguy123 said:
So you think we overpaid him, but you also think signing him means we should not longer consider taking a QB at 2 because of it?

Terrible post
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Do I think the Browns overpaid him? YES! Do you think he is overpaid???  Who else was going after him? The Jets? The Browns aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.  They are going to have a top 3 pick, if not the top pick in 2017.  From what I've read, there will be better QB prospects next year.  You have no O-line, losing your 2nd best lineman in Mack, so you're weaker there.  You have "okay" RB's but because you have no Defense, you will be playing from behind most of the year.  Wait, you have no WR's.  Sure you might get Josh Gordon, for.... what, maybe the full season.  And you want to bring in questionable QB talent on top of RG3?  Build the team up, take some lumps, this year, next year and MAYBE by 2018, the Browns can be a .500 team. Culture has to change in Cleveland in order to draw players who want to come there.  You have some good coaches but TIME is what you need.  Browns would be better off trading down a few spots, gain more picks and build.

You like apples?

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Do I think the Browns overpaid him? YES! Do you think he is overpaid???  Who else was going after him? The Jets? The Browns aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.  They are going to have a top 3 pick, if not the top pick in 2017.  From what I've read, there will be better QB prospects next year.  You have no O-line, losing your 2nd best lineman in Mack, so you're weaker there.  You have "okay" RB's but because you have no Defense, you will be playing from behind most of the year.  Wait, you have no WR's.  Sure you might get Josh Gordon, for.... what, maybe the full season.  And you want to bring in questionable QB talent on top of RG3?  Build the team up, take some lumps, this year, next year and MAYBE by 2018, the Browns can be a .500 team. Culture has to change in Cleveland in order to draw players who want to come there.  You have some good coaches but TIME is what you need.  Browns would be better off trading down a few spots, gain more picks and build.

You like apples?
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Good thing the Raiders didn't wait for the culture to change before they drafted Carr.  Or the Panthers with Newton.  

Let me ask you,  what do you think happens to an NFL exec when the owner asks him who the QB is,  and the exec says, 'Oh, we'll probably get one next year,  I think those QBs are going to be better'?

The fastest way to change the culture is with a QB.  Maybe he sits and learns for a year.  Maybe he gets playing time and takes a few lumps along the way,  most do. Good young QBs have this habit of making everyone on a bad team look better.  

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Do I think the Browns overpaid him? YES! Do you think he is overpaid???  Who else was going after him? The Jets? The Browns aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.  They are going to have a top 3 pick, if not the top pick in 2017.  From what I've read, there will be better QB prospects next year.  You have no O-line, losing your 2nd best lineman in Mack, so you're weaker there.  You have "okay" RB's but because you have no Defense, you will be playing from behind most of the year.  Wait, you have no WR's.  Sure you might get Josh Gordon, for.... what, maybe the full season.  And you want to bring in questionable QB talent on top of RG3?  Build the team up, take some lumps, this year, next year and MAYBE by 2018, the Browns can be a .500 team. Culture has to change in Cleveland in order to draw players who want to come there.  You have some good coaches but TIME is what you need.  Browns would be better off trading down a few spots, gain more picks and build.

You like apples?
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I do, but your apples are rotten.  You clearly haven't read anything I have written.  I don't particularly want to draft a QB at 2 either. 

You made it sound like signing RG3 should impact our decision at 2, while at the same time saying he is overpriced.  None of that meshes with any sort of logic. 

 
RGIII's contract is really a one year prove it deal. $5 mill this year is not "overpaid".

Right now his 2 year deal ranks him 24th in pay. If the Browns cut him in 2017 he

only counts $1.75 mill in dead money-that is is cheap as it gets for a QB.

If he earns the  $7 mill in incentives it means the Browns have found their starter.

 
nightmare said:
RGIII's contract is really a one year prove it deal. $5 mill this year is not "overpaid".

Right now his 2 year deal ranks him 24th in pay. If the Browns cut him in 2017 he

only counts $1.75 mill in dead money-that is is cheap as it gets for a QB.

If he earns the  $7 mill in incentives it means the Browns have found their starter.
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Exactly.  He essentially got a one year deal with an option for the second.  He's not overpaid at all.  And it factors in exactly ZERO percent to what they will do in the draft.  If the Browns end up with two solid QB options going into 2017, that will be the first time I've ever heard that in my lifetime.  Hell, they could draft a QB at 2, then come back in the 5th if someone like Cardale falls and I wouldn't question that at all.

 
RG3's contract is definitely not a bad contract.  No idea how anyone would think it is.

If he sucks, they cut him, and oh well, no biggie.  A few million spent.

If he does well, they are paying him enough to where a hold out wouldn't make much sense for him. 

Who in all hell knows what the Browns intentions actually are, but if they truly do not want either of the QBs at pick 2, then I like this signing. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
RG3's contract is definitely not a bad contract.  No idea how anyone would think it is.

If he sucks, they cut him, and oh well, no biggie.  A few million spent.

If he does well, they are paying him enough to where a hold out wouldn't make much sense for him. 

Who in all hell knows what the Browns intentions actually are, but if they truly do not want either of the QBs at pick 2, then I like this signing. 
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Maybe I missed it posted earlier, but why does this matter to you?  What if they want Wentz or Goff at #2...this is a bad signing?  I don't get it.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Personally, if we draft Geoff or Wentz, I would prefer for RG3 to not be here. 
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I'd tend to agree with this. If they knew they were taking Goff or Wentz they may as well have just stuck with McCown to open the season and worked the rookie in. RGIII becomes somewhat of an unnecessary distraction if they draft their franchise QB.

Although I can see the other side that having RGIII and Wentz (or Goff) increases the odds of securing a franchise QB - and that's obviously a good thing.

 
So I asked before, dont think anyone responded.

If thee Eagles want to move up from 8 to 2, what deal could we make that you would be ok with?  As in, what is the minimum return they could get where you would be ok with the deal.

I think 8 and 2017 1st and I wont be mad. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
So I asked before, dont think anyone responded.

If thee Eagles want to move up from 8 to 2, what deal could we make that you would be ok with?  As in, what is the minimum return they could get where you would be ok with the deal.

I think 8 and 2017 1st and I wont be mad. 
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I'd almost guarantee we'd get their 2016 3rd, give or take a round, in the deal.  I'd be for it.

 
tangfoot said:
This isn't fantasy football.  No one is giving up their 2017 1st to move up 6 spots.
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Yeah cause Buffalo didnt do that with us two years ago or anything :scared: .  And actually that was 5 spots.  Down from pick 4 to pick 9.

Thing is, according to the chart, we would be kinda getting hosed if all we got was pick 8 and their 2017 1st.

 
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Why should the Browns limit their options to two QB's? Draft one for "the future"

and have McCown and RGIII battle it out for starter/backup. The Browns would

have $15 mill committed to 3 QB's (not a lot of $$) and if the "future" is next year

RGIII is gone.

 
Hankmoody said:
Exactly, and WAS gave up two future first plus to move up 4 spots. 
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We can only pray someone views one of these QBs like Washington viewed RG3 that year.

Then again if they did, they would just trade up to pick 1 for less than that. 

I am sure Sashi is all over this guys.  No worries. :homer:

 
Another hypothetical.

Say Wentz is he guy we want, and we don't like Geoff.  Let's say someone jumps up to pick 1 and takes Wentz.  Who ya want?  Tunsil?

I know a lot of people want Bosa, I dont'.  I think he is pretty overrated.

 
nightmare said:
These QB's and this draft don't equal past drafts. No "franchise" QB's in this one.
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Id rather have RG3 than any QB coming out next season.

Both Goff and Wentz are likely to be decent starting QBs at worst, imo. I remain under the impression that Goff is the better QB, but honestly, I want the Browns taking either of the 2

 
nightmare said:
These QB's and this draft don't equal past drafts. No "franchise" QB's in this one.
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Eh, that is definitely not a consensus view.  If you are going by Luck/Elway/Manning as a franchise QB, then no, but these guys are both highly rated.  Both are probably considered safer at the top than a Bortles, for instance, and are both higher rated than Carr was.  This isn't a Geno Smith or EJ Manuel situation.  

It only takes one team to decide to hitch their wagon to a guy for a trade to be made.  

What I'm really interested in is this:  What if Hue loves Cook or Lynch?  I am not sure it's that difficult to imagine.  What if they have Cook 20th on their board?  They probably think they can get him later.  I mean, what if the Browns could get their hand-picked Hue-approved OBOTF in the 2nd, and get a stud in the 1st?  Perhaps even a 1st down trade down, and the QB in the 2nd.  

 
So the Rg3 owner in my league is all excited about this move for him.  I said they will still take a QB, he disagreed.

We now have $20 riding on if the Browns draft a QB in the first 32 picks of the draft (they currently have the 32nd pick since New England doesn't have a first rounder).  This way I didn't have to say "the Browns will definitely take a QB at 2" in case they trade down a bit or something - and I still have a shot that they take one with the first pick of the 2nd round.

Should I feel comfortable about this wager?

 
matttyl said:
So the Rg3 owner in my league is all excited about this move for him.  I said they will still take a QB, he disagreed.

We now have $20 riding on if the Browns draft a QB in the first 32 picks of the draft (they currently have the 32nd pick since New England doesn't have a first rounder).  This way I didn't have to say "the Browns will definitely take a QB at 2" in case they trade down a bit or something - and I still have a shot that they take one with the first pick of the 2nd round.

Should I feel comfortable about this wager?
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Seems like you have a much better than even chance on this one.  80+% range in my book.

 
matttyl said:
So the Rg3 owner in my league is all excited about this move for him.  I said they will still take a QB, he disagreed.

We now have $20 riding on if the Browns draft a QB in the first 32 picks of the draft (they currently have the 32nd pick since New England doesn't have a first rounder).  This way I didn't have to say "the Browns will definitely take a QB at 2" in case they trade down a bit or something - and I still have a shot that they take one with the first pick of the 2nd round.

Should I feel comfortable about this wager?
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I like your side.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Exactly.  He essentially got a one year deal with an option for the second.  He's not overpaid at all.  And it factors in exactly ZERO percent to what they will do in the draft.  If the Browns end up with two solid QB options going into 2017, that will be the first time I've ever heard that in my lifetime.  Hell, they could draft a QB at 2, then come back in the 5th if someone like Cardale falls and I wouldn't question that at all.
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:goodposting:

 
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Last night's Audible podcast.  

Waldman opens up with five minutes on the RG III signing and he likes it.

https://plus.google.com/events/cl0rarc8q9d7ncli61escb76ues

The Audible LIVE - 3/24/16

----------

Yesterday Jeff Darlington said that RG III will be the starter on opening day.  He is really high on RG III.

I had completely dismissed the signing as a backup with 'some' potential but never thought the plan was to start him.  I thought we'd keep Mcown and but the consensus by beat writers is that Mcown is gone and RG III would move into the #2 spot.  I never saw him as a viable starter or had delusions of him making a comeback but more than a few people are saying this.  

I might have been wrong on RG III.  He might have potential to make a come back.

matttyl said:
So the Rg3 owner in my league is all excited about this move for him.  I said they will still take a QB, he disagreed.

We now have $20 riding on if the Browns draft a QB in the first 32 picks of the draft (they currently have the 32nd pick since New England doesn't have a first rounder).  This way I didn't have to say "the Browns will definitely take a QB at 2" in case they trade down a bit or something - and I still have a shot that they take one with the first pick of the 2nd round.

Should I feel comfortable about this wager?
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In the first 32 picks?  I think the #2 pick is a little more wide open but see what happens with Mcown.  

- If the team KEEPS HIM then it looks like RG III is the starter and the team doesn't take a QB at #2 and lower probability of taking one at #32

- If the team CUTS or TRADES Mcown they are 'likely' to take a QB at #2 and if they don't take one at #2 they are a near lock to take one at #32

Right now I'd say it is a high probability they take a QB in the first 32 so you should feel 'pretty' comfortable but watch what they do with Mcown.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Id rather have RG3 than any QB coming out next season.

Both Goff and Wentz are likely to be decent starting QBs at worst, imo. I remain under the impression that Goff is the better QB, but honestly, I want the Browns taking either of the 2
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What 2017 qbs have you studied? Honestly curious.

 
i hope that every game this year rg tres turns in to a robot ro best like on voltron and kicks butt up and down the lake eerie seaboard sinking forty to forty three shipping vessels and scattering there contents to and fro so that not only do the good hearted and long suffering fans of cle feel the joy of a win but they get the added benefit of various dry good asundry washing up on shore throughout the next week so that every win is actually a win win down there in the heart of the rust belt take that to the you have earned it bank bromigos 

 
massraider said:
Good thing the Raiders didn't wait for the culture to change before they drafted Carr.  Or the Panthers with Newton.  

Let me ask you,  what do you think happens to an NFL exec when the owner asks him who the QB is,  and the exec says, 'Oh, we'll probably get one next year,  I think those QBs are going to be better'?

The fastest way to change the culture is with a QB.  Maybe he sits and learns for a year.  Maybe he gets playing time and takes a few lumps along the way,  most do. Good young QBs have this habit of making everyone on a bad team look better.  
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Carr went to the Raiders at pick #36, so he wasn't a reach at that draft spot as a lot of people thought he'd go late 1st.  Wentz or Goff aren't great prospects like Newton or Jameis were.  They are good prospects.  Having a QB like RG3 who I think is never going to be more than a solid or average pro, with his style and then adding a somewhat pure pocket passer type in Wentz/Goff, won't work.  Jackson might be a nice seasoned QB guru but he is going to have his hands full with RG3. The Browns are years away from being competitive.  I would think it would be a serious mistake standing pat and taking one of these two QBs at 2.  I'd rather see the old trade down for more picks move, build the team up, add more pieces since you lost a lot of talent in free agency and considering you didn't have a lot of talent this time last year, it would only make sense.

If Wentz/Goff is taken by the Browns at pick #2, I pretty much can honestly say Browns will be on the clock for the top pick in 2017.

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Carr went to the Raiders at pick #36, so he wasn't a reach at that draft spot as a lot of people thought he'd go late 1st.  Wentz or Goff aren't great prospects like Newton or Jameis were.  They are good prospects.  Having a QB like RG3 who I think is never going to be more than a solid or average pro, with his style and then adding a somewhat pure pocket passer type in Wentz/Goff, won't work.  Jackson might be a nice seasoned QB guru but he is going to have his hands full with RG3. The Browns are years away from being competitive.  I would think it would be a serious mistake standing pat and taking one of these two QBs at 2.  I'd rather see the old trade down for more picks move, build the team up, add more pieces since you lost a lot of talent in free agency and considering you didn't have a lot of talent this time last year, it would only make sense.

If Wentz/Goff is taken by the Browns at pick #2, I pretty much can honestly say Browns will be on the clock for the top pick in 2017.
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The point with Carr was in response to you essentially saying it's too soon to get a QB.  Do you really think teams say to themselves, 'Nah, let's pass on that good QB, we're not ready for that yet'?  You get a bunch of talent and don't get a QB, you're the Rams.  Already losing pieces from the RGIII trade, wasting years because they don't have a QB.  

RGIII's style is going to keep Hue from developing a rookie?  Ooof.  Seattle had Russell Wilson on the roster with two QBs that could not run, coaches will adjust the playbook to whomever is playing QB.  If Goff or Wentz turn out to be good QBs, not even great, they are worth the #2 pick.  RGIII isn't going to take away any Hue-time fron a rookie QB, believe that.  

The ideal scenario is Cleveland loves Goff, and the 49ers want Wentz, and want to move up for him, and CLE trades down and gets a guy they love.    But really, saying, 'Oh, they should just trade down', is a classic example of easier said than done.  Every freaking team at the top of the draft would listen to trade offers, there's a reason it so rarely happens.  

 
It's never too soon to get a QB if the QB is a very highly rated QB.  It's impossible for it to be too soon.  If we did not have one player on our roster and had to fill the entire roster with undrafted FA's, it would not be too soon to draft a top talent QB.  Heck, the Colts did it twice in a row with Manning and then Luck.  Those teams were total trainwrecks when they were both drafted. 

Are either of these guys in that category?  I have no idea, but if our front office thinks they are, then they have to take that guy if he is available. 

 
massraider said:
The ideal scenario is Cleveland loves Goff, and the 49ers want Wentz, and want to move up for him, and CLE trades down and gets a guy they love.    But really, saying, 'Oh, they should just trade down', is a classic example of easier said than done.  Every freaking team at the top of the draft would listen to trade offers, there's a reason it so rarely happens.  
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It definitely has happened a lot more since they adjusted the rookie pay scales.  The Browns are to thanks for a few of those though :excited:

I love your ideal scenario, however, if the Browns truly do want either Wentz or Geoff, I would think they wouldn't risk losing them by moving down. 

 
massraider said:
The point with Carr was in response to you essentially saying it's too soon to get a QB.  Do you really think teams say to themselves, 'Nah, let's pass on that good QB, we're not ready for that yet'?  You get a bunch of talent and don't get a QB, you're the Rams.  Already losing pieces from the RGIII trade, wasting years because they don't have a QB.  

RGIII's style is going to keep Hue from developing a rookie?  Ooof.  Seattle had Russell Wilson on the roster with two QBs that could not run, coaches will adjust the playbook to whomever is playing QB.  If Goff or Wentz turn out to be good QBs, not even great, they are worth the #2 pick.  RGIII isn't going to take away any Hue-time fron a rookie QB, believe that.  

The ideal scenario is Cleveland loves Goff, and the 49ers want Wentz, and want to move up for him, and CLE trades down and gets a guy they love.    But really, saying, 'Oh, they should just trade down', is a classic example of easier said than done.  Every freaking team at the top of the draft would listen to trade offers, there's a reason it so rarely happens.  
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And how much $ was invested in a 3rd round pick in Russell Wilson?  Seattle was a pretty good defensive team then, so they had parts.  Browns have no parts.  My point is not coming across properly.  Wentz/Goff are not worthy of a top 2 or 4 pick, especially to a team that pretty much has nothing to go with.  No strong O-line, no good running game and a weak D.  Never mind that the division is a tough division... hence my logic to trade down, get more picks, ride the season with RG3/McCowan then when you have the top pick next year, draft a Chad Kelly and work with him.  In the meantime, work on the O-line, draft a WR and strengthen the D.

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
And how much $ was invested in a 3rd round pick in Russell Wilson?  Seattle was a pretty good defensive team then, so they had parts.  Browns have no parts.  My point is not coming across properly.  Wentz/Goff are not worthy of a top 2 or 4 pick, especially to a team that pretty much has nothing to go with.  No strong O-line, no good running game and a weak D.  Never mind that the division is a tough division... hence my logic to trade down, get more picks, ride the season with RG3/McCowan then when you have the top pick next year, draft a Chad Kelly and work with him.  In the meantime, work on the O-line, draft a WR and strengthen the D.
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If Wentz/Goff are drafted to this team with RG3/McCown still in place then I think the rook only plays before December if both are injured. There are roughly 20 other picks in the next two drafts to begin to fill all of the holes. This year thoug? Going to be rough, no matter who is under center.

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
And how much $ was invested in a 3rd round pick in Russell Wilson?  Seattle was a pretty good defensive team then, so they had parts.  Browns have no parts.  My point is not coming across properly.  Wentz/Goff are not worthy of a top 2 or 4 pick, especially to a team that pretty much has nothing to go with.  No strong O-line, no good running game and a weak D.  Never mind that the division is a tough division... hence my logic to trade down, get more picks, ride the season with RG3/McCowan then when you have the top pick next year, draft a Chad Kelly and work with him.  In the meantime, work on the O-line, draft a WR and strengthen the D.
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If they are not worth the top 5, where should they go?  Are they 2nd round prospects?  3rd round?

My counterpoint is simply this:  If you have a chance at a QB you like, it doesn't matter what else you have on the roster.  If you believe that Goff and Wentz are both gonna bust, fair enough.  

I don't really have an opinion about the QBs, I haven't seen them much, and I'm not really good at predicting college QB success.  

 
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Since the subject was bro-ached, not SWCs first bro-deo, his ability to bypass bro-adblocks is bro-bust.

* He invented Bro-gaine and designed the Bro-rschach test. If cast as lead in a Citizen Kane remake, his final word will be Bro-sebud.

 
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@TonyGrossi

Source says #Browns visited today with Memphis QB Paxton Lynch &  Baylor WR Corey Coleman. Team won't confirm pre-draft visits.

COLEMANNNNNNNNNNN

 
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