The Man With No Name
Footballguy
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Cleveland Browns (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
beer 30
Footballguy
Thanks for the geography lesson. Obviously there won't be any Cleveland fans there due to the extreme distance from the city. I'm totally off base.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
You guys can be real #######s sometimes. I spent 43 years in OH, I know where Cedar Point is and it's proximity to Cleveland and I think it's in poor taste to promote a roller coaster that emblazons the Baltimore Ravens mascot in your backyard but whatever. It's not being a dooooosh, it's being pissed off that somebody close enough to a city that had its ####### football team ripped from it has so little regard for something that is such a blemish on the one of the major cities that support it. If it was at Kings Island I get it but the park is a helluva lot closer to Cleveland than any other major city.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
There's no way they were trading Thomas 2-3 yrs ago. They weren't taking the approach they are taking now as far as rebuild goes. They were trying to win. Many thought they were a team on the rise. You can point to all these names and look at countless other OLs, but can you also look at all the hundreds of trades of the type of player you are talking about? Or, is there no such data?
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's an asinine argument. If the previous regime had done even a decent job acquiring and developing talent then we'd be competing for the playoffs while both are still in their prime years. The back end of it? Sure, but that's how most good teams are constructed.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Browns are streamlining their personnel department and have let go of six scouts whose contracts were set to expire, per league sources.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
They're a playoff team. And a LT for a run team and a not so great QB is pretty vital, no?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Sure, which is why it isn't a crazy idea. I think it'd be a bad move for them though. Their eyes should be on 2-3+ years from now; not 2016. Whoever their qb is they're not beating New England this year.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yes I would trade Thomas for the Jets pick, what is it 20??
0-16, more young players, Thomas would be 35 by the time we have any sort of chance.
I would rather ask them for their 2nd this year and 2017 1st though. Easily
0-16, more young players, Thomas would be 35 by the time we have any sort of chance.
I would rather ask them for their 2nd this year and 2017 1st though. Easily
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am obsessed with gaining more draft value considering we have zero chance to win this year or next year. If we re gonna do it, let's do it right and shoot for a window 3 years from now.You are officially obsessed with 2017 1sts
Imagine if a few years ago we would have swung a deal for the Colts future 1st, the year Manning went out. Bam, Luck.
Get a good pick this year and a future 1st. That is the perfect trade.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Can't wait to see "Believeland". I am sure it will bring up nothing but good memories.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
ghostguy123
Footballguy
That is rather vague asking price. Pick 16 isn't close to pick 31.GordonGekko said:
If they re offered pick 30 or 31 I could see them needing more, but a mid 1st? No way
ghostguy123
Footballguy
GK, I didnt even read any of that drivel past the first sentence. I said that "a 1st" is vague, because not all 1sts are the same.
I am fully aware we wont get a mid 1st for him.
I am fully aware we wont get a mid 1st for him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You may need to elaborate on that, because this entire recent conversation has none of my thoughts in it other than saying not all first rounders are the same.GordonGekko said:
But, carry on with another 3,000 words that nobody will read.
If you are referring to me saying if they got a good pick this year and a future 1st that would be the perfect trade, well, it would be. No #### we won't get that.
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massraider
Footballguy
I read all his stuff now, beginning to end. It's great, because it can never be proven. It's all conspiracy theories, spoken about confidently.
Basically, the idea is that if the Browns ask for a lot for Joe Thomas, no one will call them to trade anymore, apparently because NFL front office types behave like fantasy football owners.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I thought it was because they hired people like me?
Ya know, people like me who HATED basically every one of our past 5 years worth of first round picks especially Richardson, Weeden, Mingo, and Manziel.
The people like me who hated drafting RBs top 3, old Qbs, and immature midget QBs with no NFL game are what caused this mess. Spot on GK, spot on.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I actually decided to read it, and it was filled with a bunch of inaccurate assumptions about what I actually think regarding Joe Thomas. Good work GK. Another 2,000 word senseless post. You are better at that then anyone who has ever lived.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's also kind of amazing that the Browns have pulled off more major trades in the past half decade than any other team cause, ya know, they hire people like me who are impossible to work a trade with.
beer 30
Footballguy
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/josh-gordon-fails-another-nfl-administered-drug-test-041116
Love me some Josh. So why didn't they just cut him then? And can we boot Justin Gilbert while we're at it just for good measure?
Love me some Josh. So why didn't they just cut him then? And can we boot Justin Gilbert while we're at it just for good measure?
Is there any incentive TO cut him while he's suspended? Did the Jags ever cut Blackmon?
I don't think he's taking up a roster spot or any cap space at the moment, so there is no downside to retaining his rights on the off chance he makes a miraculous return at any time in the future.
beer 30
Footballguy
From a team standpoint I think you have to move on. This guy doesn't and won't ever get it. Incredible talent he's wiling to throw away over a spleef or drink. You can't keep this on the roster and then go into the locker room spouting the Brown's way of football. You ditched Manzeil, you need to ditch this guy too.
amnesiac
beer is good
you're probably right.
the chance of this guy getting reinstated at this point has to be minuscule.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
wait wait wait, so this idiot tested positive last month?
DallasDMac
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, a positive is a GOOD thing, right? RIGHT???
massraider
Footballguy
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25552805/why-it-will-be-jared-goff-not-carson-wentz-going-to-browns-at-no-2
I believe Jared Goff will be drafted before Carson Wentz, barring a trade of the first-overall pick. And if new Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton gets his way, it will be Goff and not Wentz who that team uses with the second overall selection.
In fact, Goff has many champions within the Browns' organization and although a preponderance of mock drafts will show Wentz being selected with the second-overall pick, I have continued to hear that Goff is actually very well positioned to be Cleveland's guy. There are certainly some splits within the organization -- as is almost always the case in these situations. There are very few once-in-a-generation quarterback prospects to unite an entire franchise in the draft process.
Fact is, many of the Browns scouts, according to numerous league sources, prefer Wentz. But in that organization -- one that just dispatched a half-dozen scouts, many of them very experienced and directly involved in the draft process just three weeks before it begins -- having the scouts in your corner is probably a bad thing. What you will ultimately need is the Moneyball crowd atop the team's football operations department to sign off, and also perpetually-blundering owner Jimmy Haslam (the central figure in the botched decision to draft Johnny Football), and having the coaches on board can't hurt.
And while there is some natural debate as to which of these quarterbacks is best, and some believe the margin is close, sources say Hamilton -- hand-picked by new head coach Hue Jackson (a quarterback guru himself), doesn't see it that way at all. His reports have Goff far and away the better candidate and it wouldn't take a major leap to infer that might just be how Jackson sees things himself. And while things between Jackson and the front office haven't exactly gotten off to a sterling start (as the Browns' free-agent foibles displayed), in this instance he and The Stat Boys might actually be on the same page.
Goff is a California kid who played at Cal -- an area and a program that Jackson knows very well. Hamilton was coaching at Stanford when Goff was being courted by Pac-12 teams and he is very familiar with the kid from the recruiting process. He liked him then and, per his Browns' reports, likes him even more now. Goff is also the preferred choice by many in the analytics community as well. The Browns have spent increasingly more money on the Pro Football Focus resources in the last year, and the PFF crowd prefers Goff. Some of the Browns execs feel precisely the same way, and the fact that Wentz did not face the caliber of competition you would prefer and is a late-bloomer has them concerned.
With the signing of Robert Griffin III -- which I believe will prove to be doomed by about October given the state of this offensive line and the utter lack of anything resembling elite skill players -- the Browns have bought themselves at least a little time to not have to rush their rookie quarterback on the field. And make no mistake, they are perfectly content -- beyond happy, actually -- to see Wentz's name attached to them at every turn. Because, I continue to hear Goff is their guy, and if you think they want Wentz, then you have to jump them to get Wentz and then they have their guy at No. 2.
So, yeah, based on everything I have heard to this point, if the Browns take a quarterback, it's Goff. That's not to say that Joey Bosa and DeForest Buckner are entirely out of the equation either, because they aren't, only it's hard to imagine that the Browns don't take a passer when it's all said and done.
As for that first-overall pick, league sources said the Titans have at least two offers on the table that they deem at least as worthy starting points toward an eventual deal, and their motivation to deal this pick cannot be overstated. Some execs who know Titans rookie general manager Jon Robinson well believe he ultimately will end up dealing that pick to accrue more assets, which are so desperately needed there, and they figure someone will be motivated enough to get a quarterback -- whether it be the Rams or the 49ers or whomever.
"I really do expect them to trade out of that pick," said an executive from one team that has explored possible trade-up scenarios as well. "They'll market it up to the draft to get the best ransom they can, but they'll move it."
If the Titans keep the first-overall selection, I continue to hear left tackle Laremy Tunsil is the pick and it isn't even all that close (as much as you may hear the occasional rumbling about corner Jalen Ramsey). Tennessee has had its top brass at all of the key left tackle's workouts, they have done exhaustive work on that position, and it is a top target -- as it would continue to be in their varied trade-down scenarios (with possible selections including Notre Dame's Ronnie Stanley or Michigan State's Jack Conklin). Regardless, upgrading how they protect quarterback Marcus Mariota is the priority, and they would love for that to come after having acquired a boatload of selections in exchange for the first-overall pick.
I believe Jared Goff will be drafted before Carson Wentz, barring a trade of the first-overall pick. And if new Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton gets his way, it will be Goff and not Wentz who that team uses with the second overall selection.
In fact, Goff has many champions within the Browns' organization and although a preponderance of mock drafts will show Wentz being selected with the second-overall pick, I have continued to hear that Goff is actually very well positioned to be Cleveland's guy. There are certainly some splits within the organization -- as is almost always the case in these situations. There are very few once-in-a-generation quarterback prospects to unite an entire franchise in the draft process.
Fact is, many of the Browns scouts, according to numerous league sources, prefer Wentz. But in that organization -- one that just dispatched a half-dozen scouts, many of them very experienced and directly involved in the draft process just three weeks before it begins -- having the scouts in your corner is probably a bad thing. What you will ultimately need is the Moneyball crowd atop the team's football operations department to sign off, and also perpetually-blundering owner Jimmy Haslam (the central figure in the botched decision to draft Johnny Football), and having the coaches on board can't hurt.
And while there is some natural debate as to which of these quarterbacks is best, and some believe the margin is close, sources say Hamilton -- hand-picked by new head coach Hue Jackson (a quarterback guru himself), doesn't see it that way at all. His reports have Goff far and away the better candidate and it wouldn't take a major leap to infer that might just be how Jackson sees things himself. And while things between Jackson and the front office haven't exactly gotten off to a sterling start (as the Browns' free-agent foibles displayed), in this instance he and The Stat Boys might actually be on the same page.
Goff is a California kid who played at Cal -- an area and a program that Jackson knows very well. Hamilton was coaching at Stanford when Goff was being courted by Pac-12 teams and he is very familiar with the kid from the recruiting process. He liked him then and, per his Browns' reports, likes him even more now. Goff is also the preferred choice by many in the analytics community as well. The Browns have spent increasingly more money on the Pro Football Focus resources in the last year, and the PFF crowd prefers Goff. Some of the Browns execs feel precisely the same way, and the fact that Wentz did not face the caliber of competition you would prefer and is a late-bloomer has them concerned.
With the signing of Robert Griffin III -- which I believe will prove to be doomed by about October given the state of this offensive line and the utter lack of anything resembling elite skill players -- the Browns have bought themselves at least a little time to not have to rush their rookie quarterback on the field. And make no mistake, they are perfectly content -- beyond happy, actually -- to see Wentz's name attached to them at every turn. Because, I continue to hear Goff is their guy, and if you think they want Wentz, then you have to jump them to get Wentz and then they have their guy at No. 2.
So, yeah, based on everything I have heard to this point, if the Browns take a quarterback, it's Goff. That's not to say that Joey Bosa and DeForest Buckner are entirely out of the equation either, because they aren't, only it's hard to imagine that the Browns don't take a passer when it's all said and done.
As for that first-overall pick, league sources said the Titans have at least two offers on the table that they deem at least as worthy starting points toward an eventual deal, and their motivation to deal this pick cannot be overstated. Some execs who know Titans rookie general manager Jon Robinson well believe he ultimately will end up dealing that pick to accrue more assets, which are so desperately needed there, and they figure someone will be motivated enough to get a quarterback -- whether it be the Rams or the 49ers or whomever.
"I really do expect them to trade out of that pick," said an executive from one team that has explored possible trade-up scenarios as well. "They'll market it up to the draft to get the best ransom they can, but they'll move it."
If the Titans keep the first-overall selection, I continue to hear left tackle Laremy Tunsil is the pick and it isn't even all that close (as much as you may hear the occasional rumbling about corner Jalen Ramsey). Tennessee has had its top brass at all of the key left tackle's workouts, they have done exhaustive work on that position, and it is a top target -- as it would continue to be in their varied trade-down scenarios (with possible selections including Notre Dame's Ronnie Stanley or Michigan State's Jack Conklin). Regardless, upgrading how they protect quarterback Marcus Mariota is the priority, and they would love for that to come after having acquired a boatload of selections in exchange for the first-overall pick.
massraider
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
It Is possible we take Tunsil and then turn around and trade Joe Thomas for a 1st round pick. I dunno who they wanted but it looks like people are saying the Rams want Wentz so if we want Goff then I would imagine we would stay put and make the pick.
I honestly don't know what the front office was doing but there were rumblings of a big shake-up in the top-5 picks so this must have been what all of the fuss was about.
Now Goff would be the target with the #2 pick should someone make us an offer.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Today's trade was big win for Cleveland; its leverage for No. 2 pick went way up. Anyone who wants next QB now needs to pay up to Cleveland.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I wanted Goff from the start... And Id be happy as all hell if they took him at 2.
But I think Tunsil is the man, and Im also very ok with this.
Makes the draft even more tense for the Browns now, as they may sit and wait for that monster offer while they're on the clock.
Just out of pure "gut feeling" I think they want, in order, Tunsil, Goff, Ramsey
But I think Tunsil is the man, and Im also very ok with this.
Makes the draft even more tense for the Browns now, as they may sit and wait for that monster offer while they're on the clock.
Just out of pure "gut feeling" I think they want, in order, Tunsil, Goff, Ramsey
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MAC_32
Footballguy
That'd make as much sense as drafting Erving last year. Drafting younger replacements to current veteran starter's while continuing to ignore the other holes will just ensure we continue to suck. Next year are we going to draft Tre'Davious White then trade Joe Haden?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
what he's saying is that you're not really building a team and/or adding any talent to a team when you draft a player to eventually replace a veteran and then let that veteran walk (because you have the youngster to take over) - you're just spinning your wheels.
ETA: This only applies to teams that have numerous holes (that would get left ignored in this scenario) like the Browns. If a team like the Patroits that already has a solid roster did it, then it's more of a plan that makes sense.
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