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**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****


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3 hours ago, daveR said:

Not sure I agree.  Overlooked in this question is the fact that McCown played well last year.  ( His QB rating put him about #13 for NFL starters.)  His biggest drawback is that he isn't young anymore.  It's likely that RG3 mitigates that factor.  If you believe that drafting their "QB of the future" isn't part of their thinking, then you can say RG3 makes no difference.  I suspect he makes some.  :2cents:

 

If their thinking is "we dont want either of these QBs at pick 2" then signing RG3 makes sense.  And I hope the keep Mccown rather than trade him for some 5th round pick.

Now, if their thinking is "we signed RG3 even though we plan to take a QB at pick 2" I would hate that.  I dont think RG3 is a good person to have around if we are bringing in a top pick.

 

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Am I the only one really hoping that if we do take a QB, that it won't be Wentz?

Initially I think I preferred him to Goff (really I do not want either), but after more thought I prefer not to take a soon to be 24 year old rookie QB who has played half as many games as other QB prospects, and did it at a pretty inferior level of competition. 

He has a nice skill set.  I understand.  But the age and competition factor, in my opinion, are red flags for increased bust potential.

I guess my personal hopes rank sorta like this assuming a QB goes 1st, and it is likely Wentz:

1- Trade down with ideally philly or anything close to that pick assuming compensation is an extra 1st and 2nd somewhere.

2- Draft one of tunsil or Ramsey

3- Draft one of Bosa (OSU fan, but for whatever reason I think he is a little overrated for the NFL) or Jack

4- Goff then Wentz, and hope and pray

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Early projections have us possibly losing every game this year, or winning as many as 3 games.  That said we already know that it will take multiple drafts to TRY to rebuild this team. Our QB options should include: Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Watson, Kayaa. Add this years borderline 1st in Cook if you're a believer.  Then you have DE Myles Garrett who most likely will be the #1 overall pick in 2017 barring injury (#2 college prospect in the nation behind Fournette). Barnett is the #2 DE prospect and will be a top 10 pick also. So in the next 2 years we have 2 blue chip opportunities to address our biggest needs: QB & DE/LB(Pass rusher). Its a would you rather.. 

1. Wentz/ Goff -2016,  Garrett/ Barnett -2017

2. Buckner /Bosa /Jack -2016, Watson/ Kayaa -2017 

We obviously have other needs but Im hard pressed to prioritize anything above these 2.  Personally as much as I love the idea of Myles Garrett here, after seeing what Watson did to Bama and their defense stacked with NFL talent, I think Id rather go with option 2.   Buckner/Watson

 

Edited by abe froman
typo
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Yeah, vegas odds have the over/under at 4.5 wins for the Browns. 

I already mentioned it before, and will reinforce..................GO BET THE FLIPPING UNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No joke, I am considering wiring a friend I have in vegas about half my life savings and will tell my wife I got a SURE winner baby, a SURE winner

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5 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Ok then I guess I stand corrected.  He has either been sucking or been hurt the last 3 years.  Both are bad. 

He wasn't hurt last year. Gruden just didn't like him. Never did. Threw him under the bus IMHO. So I don't think anyone knows what they really have in RG3. Personally I think he has a lot more talent than people give him credit for.

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The Rams are taking Goff now?

I agree with those that say RG3 doesn't and shouldn't factor into draft plans. I see it as Hue saying give me a year with that guy and see what happens. A qb in the draft doesn't change anything. Wentz or Goff shouldn't be starting week 1 for the Browns. Maybe another team. The Rams made trading out of the 2-hole very realistic and possible, not the signing of RG3. 

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1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

He wasn't hurt last year. Gruden just didn't like him. Never did. Threw him under the bus IMHO. So I don't think anyone knows what they really have in RG3. Personally I think he has a lot more talent than people give him credit for.

Pretty sure talent has not been the problem

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The most recent rotoworld post mentions that the Browns desire to trade down has "intensified" since the Rams trade.

I don't necessarily think this is because the Browns "missed their guy".  Maybe, maybe not.  I think it could easily mean there is no longer a reasonable chance that either Wentz or Goff makes it to pick 7 or 8, considering the Rams obviously traded up to draft a QB. 

So prior to that trade it was assumed that a NON QB was being drafted at 1 (barring a draft day deal of course), but now a QB is for sure going pick 1, leaving way too many possibilities for another QB to get drafted before pick 7, whether a team like the Browns drafts one or another team trades up. 

I think their desire to trade the pick has possibly intensified because the desire of other teams to trade up has intensified.

 

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11 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

The Rams are taking Goff now?

I agree with those that say RG3 doesn't and shouldn't factor into draft plans. I see it as Hue saying give me a year with that guy and see what happens. A qb in the draft doesn't change anything. Wentz or Goff shouldn't be starting week 1 for the Browns. Maybe another team. The Rams made trading out of the 2-hole very realistic and possible, not the signing of RG3. 

If qb isn't the target at pick two then trading down is the best play, depending on what's offered obviously. I think Goff is much better than Wentz, so it'd be smart of the Rams to pick him over Wentz. I don't understand the Wentz hype, but he'd actually be a good fit here since he won't be rushed and would have McCown to serve as a mentor. I'd think if going the developmental route that targeting a qb later would make more sense though.

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From what I can gather, it seems that Goff has more experience processing in-game info at a higher level of competition.  This is a vital attribute in the NFL!  This is part of the "speed of the game" that rookies have to adjust to. They will both need to grow in that area.  Wentz is said to be very intelligent, so I assume he'll be able to do so.  If I were taking a QB, I'd go with Wentz, but I expect Goff look better in the short term.

If I were the one making picks for the Browns, I'd take a future pro-bowler, at any position, if I felt confident in that projection.  If not, I'd trade down.  My third choice would be to take the remaining QB & not feel bad about it at all.

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There were reports that CLE preferred Goff.

If true, what would be the upside of leaking it? If anything, I took it as disinformation, they actually prefer Wentz. He reminds me of a Carson Palmer and Roethlisberger mash up.

Michael Silver, who has been in the war room with Fisher (along with Peter King), has speculated the Rams prefer Goff, but in a recent article, noted the organization has been sending out conflicting reports about preferring Wentz. IMO nobody knows outside the inner circle. Wentz also may remind Fisher of McNair, small school, big, fast, athletic, mobile, leader. But Goff has some strong traits to recommend him. While not the consensus, Mayock changed his position and said both could end up being better than the 2015 QBs that went 1-2. Mayock and Cosell (NFL Films scout, Howard's brother?) have compared Wentz's combo of size, athleticism and upside to Luck.

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10 minutes ago, Bob Magaw said:

There were reports that CLE preferred Goff.

If true, what would be the upside of leaking it? If anything, I took it as disinformation, they actually prefer Wentz. He reminds me of a Carson Palmer and Roethlisberger mash up.

Michael Silver, who has been in the war room with Fisher (along with Peter King), has speculated the Rams prefer Goff, but in a recent article, noted the organization has been sending out conflicting reports about preferring Wentz. IMO nobody knows outside the inner circle. Wentz also may remind Fisher of McNair, small school, big, fast, athletic, mobile, leader. But Goff has some strong traits to recommend him. While not the consensus, Mayock changed his position and said both could end up being better than the 2015 QBs that went 1-2. Mayock and Cosell (NFL Films scout, Howard's brother?) have compared Wentz's combo of size, athleticism and upside to Luck.

1

I'm not buying any 'insider information' or leaks at this time especially about a team wanting a specific player.  I have no idea who the Browns want or if they feel any QB is worth the #2 pick.  

But if you want a rumor that pertains to the Rams and Browns possibly being involved in a trade where the Rams would get the QB they want at the #1 pick at the Browns #2 pick in some sort of bizarre three-way deal, PFT is throwing this one out to the wind.

This seems odd.  If the Rams want Goff or Wentz then a 'third team' who would be trading up for the 'other QB' would not have to include the Rams in the deal.  They simply would phone Cleveland to make the deal.  No need to complicate matters by suggesting a three-way deal that makes no sense.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/16/rams-could-still-get-their-man-and-get-some-picks-back/

Rams could still get their man, and get some picks back

Posted by Mike Florio on April 16, 2016, 7:47 AM EDT

...

the Rams could engineer a way to get the guy they want without using the first overall pick and, in turn, getting back some picks in the process.

If, for example, the Rams decide they want Wentz but another team in striking distance to the top of the draft decides it wants Goff, that team, the Rams, and the Browns (who hold the No. 2 pick) could do a three-way deal that puts the Rams at No. 2, the Browns later in round one, and the third team at No. 1.

A potentially more viable deal could happen if the Rams decide they want Goff, since this would open the door for the Eagles (who reportedly covet Wentz and who reportedly were talking to the Titans about a move to No. 1) to engineer a deal that would allow them to take Wentz at No. 1, the Rams to take Goff at No. 2, and the Browns to stockpile more of the much-needed scratch-off lottery tickets that may or may not become quality NFL players.

 

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37 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I'm not buying any 'insider information' or leaks at this time especially about a team wanting a specific player.  I have no idea who the Browns want or if they feel any QB is worth the #2 pick.  

But if you want a rumor that pertains to the Rams and Browns possibly being involved in a trade where the Rams would get the QB they want at the #1 pick at the Browns #2 pick in some sort of bizarre three-way deal, PFT is throwing this one out to the wind.

This seems odd.  If the Rams want Goff or Wentz then a 'third team' who would be trading up for the 'other QB' would not have to include the Rams in the deal.  They simply would phone Cleveland to make the deal.  No need to complicate matters by suggesting a three-way deal that makes no sense.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/16/rams-could-still-get-their-man-and-get-some-picks-back/

Rams could still get their man, and get some picks back

Posted by Mike Florio on April 16, 2016, 7:47 AM EDT

...

the Rams could engineer a way to get the guy they want without using the first overall pick and, in turn, getting back some picks in the process.

If, for example, the Rams decide they want Wentz but another team in striking distance to the top of the draft decides it wants Goff, that team, the Rams, and the Browns (who hold the No. 2 pick) could do a three-way deal that puts the Rams at No. 2, the Browns later in round one, and the third team at No. 1.

A potentially more viable deal could happen if the Rams decide they want Goff, since this would open the door for the Eagles (who reportedly covet Wentz and who reportedly were talking to the Titans about a move to No. 1) to engineer a deal that would allow them to take Wentz at No. 1, the Rams to take Goff at No. 2, and the Browns to stockpile more of the much-needed scratch-off lottery tickets that may or may not become quality NFL players.

 

Anything is possible I guess, but if the Rams want Goff then why would Philly bother dealing up to pick 1 for Wentz and not just trade for pick 2 with us?

If the Rams are gaining value moving down, that mean that either the Browns or Eagles (or both) are losing value somewhere there. 

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BEcause once people know who the Rams are taking, then there is no longer any reason for a team to bother trading with them.

A three way deal like that would only happen if NOBODY knew who the Rams were taking, which I simply can not see as any sort of plausible scenario for a variety of reasons. 

The Eagles should know that if the Rams allow them to move up to pick 1 it is because they want Goff and not Wentz.  In which case, Philly is calling the Browns, not the Rams, and paying less to get it done.

Edited by ghostguy123
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27 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Anything is possible I guess, but if the Rams want Goff then why would Philly bother dealing up to pick 1 for Wentz and not just trade for pick 2 with us?

If the Rams are gaining value moving down, that mean that either the Browns or Eagles (or both) are losing value somewhere there.

 

It is that simple.  

LA will pick a QB.

Other teams probably already know who they are taking so if a team covets the other QB, they probably already have called us to structure a deal before we are on the clock.

The decision for the Browns front office is:    

  • Simply take the 'other QB' if they like him

or

  • Deal the pick if they get an offer that they like  

There is no logical reason to include LA in any deal from the Browns standpoint or for any team looking to trade up because it complicates things and would cost more in terms of compensation.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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27 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

It is that simple.  

LA will pick a QB.

Other teams probably already know who they are taking so if a team covets the other QB, they probably already have called us to structure a deal before we are on the clock.

The decision for the Browns front office is:    

  • Simply take the 'other QB' if they like him

or

  • Deal the pick if they get an offer that they like  

There is no logical reason to include LA in any deal from the Browns standpoint or for any team looking to trade up because it complicates things and would cost more in terms of compensation.  

This is what I think as well.

The Rams only chance to recoup some picks is from the Browns, if the Browns got nervous, and HAD to acquire Goff (for sake of argument). I get the idea, that the Rams can get picks, and stil get their guy, bu why would the Browns do that?  The minute the Rams say, yeah, e'll trade you pick so you can take Goff, the Browns know they really want Wentz.  So why trade?  Browns know the Rams won't go lower than #2, so if the Browns do want Goff, they can play a game of chicken with the Rams.

On the other hand, if you think Goff is a franchise guy, and don't believe in Wentz, it's probably worth a pick to swap with the Rams.  

 

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3 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

It is that simple.  

LA will pick a QB.

Other teams probably already know who they are taking so if a team covets the other QB, they probably already have called us to structure a deal before we are on the clock.

The decision for the Browns front office is:    

  • Simply take the 'other QB' if they like him

or

  • Deal the pick if they get an offer that they like  

There is no logical reason to include LA in any deal from the Browns standpoint or for any team looking to trade up because it complicates things and would cost more in terms of compensation.  

this is the smartest thing i've ever seen you post.  

 

kudos.  

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5 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

BEcause once people know who the Rams are taking, then there is no longer any reason for a team to bother trading with them.

A three way deal like that would only happen if NOBODY knew who the Rams were taking, which I simply can not see as any sort of plausible scenario for a variety of reasons. 

The Eagles should know that if the Rams allow them to move up to pick 1 it is because they want Goff and not Wentz.  In which case, Philly is calling the Browns, not the Rams, and paying less to get it done.

I agree it seems incredibly unlikely (approaching 0 probability) LA doesn't have a favorite. And I do think this is rampant speculation by PFT. But one aspect not discussed, if the evaluation was very close, the Rams might like the leftover QB AND whatever they can get from moving from #1 to #2, which is a different point . I don't buy it either. 

What would a three way phone call such as this sound like? Hypothetically:

LA likes Wentz a little more, but Goff plus pick's more.

CLE and PHI like Wentz best (and don't lake Goff). Neither team can get him if LA picks him.

LA can't trade directly with PHI as they have to get one of the two QBs. PHI trading directly with CLE doesn't help, as Wentz is off the board. Maybe CLE was interested in drafting Wentz at #2 if LA picked Goff #1, but NOT enough to pay a premium to move up. But CLE might be interested in trading down (money ball), acquiring picks from PHI, foregoing a QB but still getting a really good player at #8 (QB at 1-2 pushes other prospects down to #8).

In that scenario, PHI pays the most to move from #8 to #1 and take Wentz, Rams get the lesser of that trade bounty but stay at #2 and get their QB, CLE goes to #8 and makes the most (not unlike when they moved down in 2014, which they parlayed into - well, that isn't relevant here). Pretty thin stuff.    

The above is complicated by the fact we don't even know PHI prefers Wentz any more than we know whether or not LA and CLE do. Interesting to me, there could be some scenarios where by everybody laying all their cards on the table, the Rams would lose out by having PHI deal directly with CLE, exactly as you suggested. But in the above scenario, LA could benefit by having the other two parties realize it could help everybody by cooperating. In some ways, the status quo of the three teams keeping each other in the dark about their intentions complicates such a deal brokering.    

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Rams take Wentz.  Browns take Goff.  Eagles need to take lynch I think.

 

2017 will be a race to the bottom between the 49ers and Dolphins to draft Watson.  The NFC West might be ridiculous in a couple years with Wilson, Watson, and Wentz all in the same division.

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44 minutes ago, Brendon1215 said:

Should be interesting. I wonder what they're trying to get out of their #2 pick. I assume a few players & some late-round picks. 

#assets, given the haul the Titans just pulled in for #1 and the state of the roster Sashi would be incompetent if he didn't kick some tires.

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20 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Little talk on radio about deal with Eagles, it would be something like

pick 8, pick 77, and their 2017 1st and 3rd.

Push come to shove I would take that, and then look to go down again with the titans doing what we can to get another 2017 1st, but that might be hard to get.

 
 

I don't think that anyone believes that San Francisco is 'ok' going into the season with Blaine Gabbert and Colin Kaepernick but I haven't heard a single thing about them moving up.  The Jets were close to a deal with the Titans for the top pick so they definitely are in play but I have heard Sashi wants to stay in the top-10 and it could be so he could double-down in a trade with the Titans.

I think if we moved down to the Eagles #8 spot we should get their 2nd this year plus their 2017 1st and 3rd round picks.  Then we could double down and trade down from #8 to #15 with the Titans to get one of their three-2nd round draft picks.  

The Titans want to move back into the top-10.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25557933/draft-even-after-blockbuster-deal-titans-trying-to-trade-into-the-top-10

JASON LA CANFORA
CBS Sports NFL Insider
Follow Jason
Draft: Even after blockbuster deal, Titans trying to trade into the top 10
April 17, 2016 1:22 pm ET

...this team is not done trading.

“He's moving back up,” said one executive who all but guaranteed to me recently the Titans would be trading the top pick. “He has the ammo to do it and it's heading in that direction.”

 

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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Its amazing that, no matter how many times the Browns clean house, they keep winding up with a front office that makes awful decisions.  They need a QB.  If they don't take one here, its pretty likely they never find a QB as long as Hue is the coach and they will probably get shown the door after a couple years. The browns front office is effectively firing themselves if they trade down.   They need to STOP being bold and just calm down and make the level headed pick of Goff.

 

I've never seen a team more dysfunctional. 

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29 minutes ago, Riversco said:

Its amazing that, no matter how many times the Browns clean house, they keep winding up with a front office that makes awful decisions.  They need a QB.  If they don't take one here, its pretty likely they never find a QB as long as Hue is the coach and they will probably get shown the door after a couple years. The browns front office is effectively firing themselves if they trade down.   They need to STOP being bold and just calm down and make the level headed pick of Goff.

 

I've never seen a team more dysfunctional. 

On the other side, there's very little chance of them not being in position to take a top QB next year anyway. They can afford to see if RGIII can turn it around while building up a team around the QB they draft next year (if they chose to draft one). 

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1 hour ago, Riversco said:

Its amazing that, no matter how many times the Browns clean house, they keep winding up with a front office that makes awful decisions.  They need a QB.  If they don't take one here, its pretty likely they never find a QB as long as Hue is the coach and they will probably get shown the door after a couple years. The browns front office is effectively firing themselves if they trade down.   They need to STOP being bold and just calm down and make the level headed pick of Goff.

 

I've never seen a team more dysfunctional. 

I think every new regime that has come in here has traded down ("trying to get cute"), so I get the sentiment.  If the Rams pick Goff I don't think Wentz is worth the #2 pick though.  I mean, no QB is, but teams that have a need at QB get those players bumped up their rankings draft day.  It's a handful-to-dozen picks sort of move though.  I don't think Wentz is a top half of the first round guy, so taking him at #2 would be an awful reach.  The only reason I could see it working is with RG3 in the stable he may not be as rushed and hopefully McCown is still here to serve as a mentor.  The tools are there, but this guy needs a lot of development.

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30 minutes ago, Riversco said:

the fastest way to get fired is take a job where you dont have a QB and then start passing on QBs in the draft.

Where did picking Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, and Christian Ponder get those guys?

Passing on good QB's would likely be fatal, but just picking the best available QB would not be smart.  There's a lot to like about Wentz, but there's a lot more questions about his game than answers right now.  

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13 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I think if we moved down to the Eagles #8 spot we should get their 2nd this year plus their 2017 1st and 3rd round picks.  Then we could double down and trade down from #8 to #15 with the Titans to get one of their three-2nd round draft picks.

Psst....The Eagles don't have a 2nd this year.  Just 2 thirds.  Rumor has it that they have offered both of this year's 3rd rnd picks in the package for the #2 pick.  The offer I've seen out there has the Eagles offering the following picks:

2016 picks: 8, 77, 79

2017 1st and 3rd

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43 minutes ago, Peak said:

Psst....The Eagles don't have a 2nd this year.  Just 2 thirds.  Rumor has it that they have offered both of this year's 3rd rnd picks in the package for the #2 pick.  The offer I've seen out there has the Eagles offering the following picks:

2016 picks: 8, 77, 79

2017 1st and 3rd

 

I don't like that deal and would not take that deal because I don't value 3rd round picks nearly as much as 2nd round picks.  

I would only be interested in taking their 3rd this year if the rest of the deal was their 2017 1st and 2nd round picks.  If they would prefer to keep this year's 3rd I would offer them the option to swap their 3rd this year for a future 2nd two years out in 2018.  Two-3rd picks are not as good as one high 2nd round pick so I don't like that deal.  

 

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Jeez, I was expecting this thread to be going nuts right now.

Quote

Browns trade down from No. 2 to No. 8 with Eagles, pick up 2017 1st rounder and more

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

Follow on Twitter
on April 20, 2016 at 1:52 PM, updated April 20, 2016 at 2:03 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns traded down from No. 2 to No. 8 with the Eagles in the 2016 draft.

Cleveland.com reported Tuesday morning that the Browns were actively shopping the pick and that the Eagles were the likely trade partner.

The Browns get: 2016 No. 8 overall pick, the 2016 3rd round pick, the 2016 4th round pick, the 2017 first-round pick and 2018 second-round pick.

The Eagles get: The Browns No. 2 overall pick and 2017 fourth-round pick.

The trade ensures that the Browns will not get one of the top two quarterbacks in Carson Wentz or Jared Goff.

They've made it clear all along that they wanted to stockpile picks, and now they have 12 picks in the 2016 draft instead of 10. 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/browns_trade_down_from_no_2_to.html

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Right now, it sounds good and this deal is acceptable to me.  I like the 2018 2nd round pick.  That is the one that pushes it over the top for me.  

Eagles give up:

  • 2016 1st round pick #8
  • 2016 3rd round pick #77
  • 2016 4th round pick #100
  • 2017 1st round pick
  • 2018 2nd round pick

Browns give up:

  • 2016 1st round pick #2
  • 2016 4th round pick #99
Edited by Bracie Smathers
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