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Cleveland Browns (6 Viewers)

Tool said:
Because some talking heads have said so.
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Pretty much

The whole "Allen has the most upside" and "Barkley the best player in the draft" stuff is just  :porked:

If Usain Bolt entered the draft as a WR would he have the most upside?

 
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DocHolliday said:
Great production at PSU. 
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To single this out...

vs. Indiana - 20/56 with a long of 8, 4/51, no td's

@ NW - 16/75 with a long of 53, 2/9, 2 td's

@ Ohio - 21/44 with a long of 36, 4/23, 1 td

@ Mich St - 14/63 with a long of 36, 3/33, 0 td's

vs. Rutgers - 14/35 with a long of 11, 1/20, 2 td's

vs. Minnesota - 20/63 with a long of 20, 1/-3, 1 td

@ Indiana - 33/58 with a long of 21, 2/34, 2 td's

vs. Mich St - 12/14 with a long of 5, 2/11, 1 td

I started at the Minnesota game in 16, before then the team was playing like garbage so I didn't want to cherry pick those games. When he runs hot, he runs very hot.  But as you can see above he frequently never gets hot.  And is prone to just breaking one play then going in neutral the rest of the game.

Good Rb that has the ability to become great.  Generational though?  Get out.

 
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Tool said:
I have no clue and neither do you.
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What if he said best "prospect" in the draft? Obviously no one knows who will turn out to be the best player but the whole system is based on teams (and analysts for their jobs) analyzing who the best prospects/players are in each draft class.

 
Soulfly3 said:
All the RESPECTED cleveland Journos are comign in with their pick now, and they're ALL confident it's Darnold.

Was between he and Mayfield.

Wish we'd have taken Mayfield, but Dorsey's got me.
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Could you give examples of the bolded because honestly, I don't know who that is right now.

 
MAC_32 said:
To single this out...

vs. Indiana - 20/56 with a long of 8, 4/51, no td's

@ NW - 16/75 with a long of 53, 2/9, 2 td's

@ Ohio - 21/44 with a long of 36, 4/23, 1 td

@ Mich St - 14/63 with a long of 36, 3/33, 0 td's

vs. Rutgers - 14/35 with a long of 11, 1/20, 2 td's

vs. Minnesota - 20/63 with a long of 20, 1/-3, 1 td

@ Indiana - 33/58 with a long of 21, 2/34, 2 td's

vs. Mich St - 12/14 with a long of 5, 2/11, 1 td

I started at the Minnesota game in 16, before then the team was playing like garbage so I didn't want to cherry pick those games. When he runs hot, he runs very hot.  But as you can see above he frequently never gets hot.  And is prone to just breaking one play then going in neutral the rest of the game.

Good Rb that has the ability to become great.  Generational though?  Get out.
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Read much?  I never said he was generational.  I simply think he is the best player in the draft. 

 
DocHolliday said:
Because he is.  Great character.  Great production at PSU.  Great combine.  Great work ethic.  Watch him play. 

I would love to hear who you think is the best player of the draft. 
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So he is the best RB in the draft.  Ok, I can get on board with that.  

How do you personally determine who is the "best player in the draft" between a RB, DE, QB, WR..................

That label is hyperbole at it's absolute worst.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
What if he said best "prospect" in the draft? Obviously no one knows who will turn out to be the best player but the whole system is based on teams (and analysts for their jobs) analyzing who the best prospects/players are in each draft class.
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Same question.  How do YOU determine who is the best prospect when comparing all the positions?

 
MAC_32 said:
Fair enough, but you went down a semantics road instead of addressing the point.  
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Semantics? 

The combine numbers dont lie.  You can see the talent when you watch him play.  He has a great all around game.  His pass catching ability combined with his running ability certainly makes him a 3-down back.  He has a record of working extremely hard and has not been in trouble.  Those are facts.   

 
DocHolliday said:
Semantics? 

The combine numbers dont lie.  You can see the talent when you watch him play.  He has a great all around game.  His pass catching ability combined with his running ability certainly makes him a 3-down back.  He has a record of working extremely hard and has not been in trouble.  Those are facts.   
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Now who's not reading.  :D

I'm talking about production and gave a gamelog of reasons why.  I didn't watch all of those games, but I watched several of them and consistently saw the same thing.  An over sized dancer looking for a home run when there usually wasn't one there.  Can that be coached out of him?  Because that isn't going to work in the pros.

 
MAC_32 said:
Now who's not reading.  :D

I'm talking about production and gave a gamelog of reasons why.  I didn't watch all of those games, but I watched several of them and consistently saw the same thing.  An over sized dancer looking for a home run when there usually wasn't one there.  Can that be coached out of him?  Because that isn't going to work in the pros.
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You're losing here Doc.   :toilet:

 
ghostguy123 said:
So he is the best RB in the draft.  Ok, I can get on board with that.  

How do you personally determine who is the "best player in the draft" between a RB, DE, QB, WR..................

That label is hyperbole at it's absolute worst.
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And who do you think is the best player in the draft?

The Browns need a young QB so that need requires them to reach over Barkley.  If the Browns did not need a QB and was simply taking BPA,  Barkley is the easy choice.  I doubt the Browns take this option but they could decide to live with Taylor for a year or two, draft Barkley at 1, get Chubb at 4 and take Rudolph at 33.  It all depends on how they graded the QBs.  I have problems with all of them and hate to pass up potentially great players for a QB with warts.  But, in this QB driven league, that will happen this week.  Often. 

 
MAC_32 said:
Now who's not reading.  :D

I'm talking about production and gave a gamelog of reasons why.  I didn't watch all of those games, but I watched several of them and consistently saw the same thing.  An over sized dancer looking for a home run when there usually wasn't one there.  Can that be coached out of him?  Because that isn't going to work in the pros.
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I watched almost all of the games.  You did not take into account that Barkley made a lot of plays on his own behind an ok Oline. 

At least I am willing to give opinions.  Many of you have not provided BPA or who you would draft. 

But, none of our thoughts matter today regardless.  None of us know who will be the best pro out of this draft class.  We do not even know who the best RB will be.  What I do know is Barkley has serious potential to be a great RB.  We will have some answers in 10 or 11 months after the 2018 season has unfolded.  I am sure one of us will resurrect this thread then.  :D

 
ghostguy123 said:
Same question.  How do YOU determine who is the best prospect when comparing all the positions?
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Well I wouldn't claim that I could do it, but when some analyst or GM does, I would guess it's based on what they think their prospects for success are (comparative to other prospects), what kind of impact they will make, how "safe" they are (comparative to other prospects), and all the usual stuff (tape, measurables, intangibles etc.).

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept. We often discuss BPA in the context of drafting. What exactly do you think that means?  

 
DocHolliday said:
I watched almost all of the games.  You did not take into account that Barkley made a lot of plays on his own behind an ok Oline. 

At least I am willing to give opinions.  Many of you have not provided BPA or who you would draft. 

But, none of our thoughts matter today regardless.  None of us know who will be the best pro out of this draft class.  We do not even know who the best RB will be.  What I do know is Barkley has serious potential to be a great RB.  We will have some answers in 10 or 11 months after the 2018 season has unfolded.  I am sure one of us will resurrect this thread then.  :D
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I'm not going to speak for others, but for me - I'm not disputing that Barkley is the best player in the draft.  I don't believe he's the most valuable though.  Taking into account the supply of RB's available, their actual value to a team, and the potential replacement options later - Barkley would need to already be what his fans expect him to become for me to consider him at the top of the draft.

 
DocHolliday said:
And who do you think is the best player in the draft?

The Browns need a young QB so that need requires them to reach over Barkley.  If the Browns did not need a QB and was simply taking BPA,  Barkley is the easy choice.  I doubt the Browns take this option but they could decide to live with Taylor for a year or two, draft Barkley at 1, get Chubb at 4 and take Rudolph at 33.  It all depends on how they graded the QBs.  I have problems with all of them and hate to pass up potentially great players for a QB with warts.  But, in this QB driven league, that will happen this week.  Often. 
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Quenten Nelson

 
DocHolliday said:
And who do you think is the best player in the draft?

The Browns need a young QB so that need requires them to reach over Barkley.  If the Browns did not need a QB and was simply taking BPA,  Barkley is the easy choice.  I doubt the Browns take this option but they could decide to live with Taylor for a year or two, draft Barkley at 1, get Chubb at 4 and take Rudolph at 33.  It all depends on how they graded the QBs.  I have problems with all of them and hate to pass up potentially great players for a QB with warts.  But, in this QB driven league, that will happen this week.  Often. 
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Probably because an average QB has a more positive impact on a team than a great RB.  I can't imagine a RB EVER being the best player in a draft these days.  

If the NFL did a complete redraft of the league, RBs aren't going anywhere near the top of the draft.  Not even close.  There's a reason for that.  

And stop with the "QB with warts" hyperole.  Barkley is absolutely NOT a slam dunk good RB.  See Mac's post again, sums it up pretty well.  

Who do I think is the best player in this draft?  I don't know, but I am taking at least three QBs over Barkely, at least one DE, at least one DB, and would 100% trade down rather than take Barkley at either pick.

 
Browns have reportedly "cooled" on Sam Darnold and are believed to be more interested in Allen and Mayfield. Why not let the world know who they're taking? They're at 1 and no one can affect anything. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept. We often discuss BPA in the context of drafting. What exactly do you think that means?  
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I know what I think it means, but when I hear people talk about it everyone seems to have a different definition.  

Some people say "BPA regardless of position".  I don't.  

I say "the player who will have he most positive impact on my team for the next 5+ years".  For example, if you think Barkley is the BPA but you have Gurley, then taking Barkley would be idiotic.

 
steelers1080 said:
Browns have reportedly "cooled" on Sam Darnold and are believed to be more interested in Allen and Mayfield. Why not let the world know who they're taking? They're at 1 and no one can affect anything. 
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Not even remotely true.  It can affect a potential deal down to pick 2, MAYBE pick 3.

We don't know what info they have or what teams they have talked to.  

 
According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot, the Browns "have cooled" on USC QB Sam Darnold "in recent days."

Many in the national media have pegged Darnold as the top choice for the Browns for much of the draft season, but word out of Cleveland is the Browns have "narrowed" it down to Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen at No. 1 overall. Darnold is widely considered the best overall passing prospect in this class, but the Browns front office has many Mayfield supporters, and the perceived upside of Allen is a big draw. If Cleveland passes on Darnold, teams will be scurrying to take him.
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Sources tell the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot that the Browns are believed to be down to Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield or Wyoming QB Josh Allen with the No. 1 overall pick.

Per those sources, the Browns have "cooled" on USC QB Sam Darnold in recent days for whatever reason. This falls in line with what some around the Browns have been saying for about a week now, as radio host and ex-Browns DB Dustin Fox reported last week that Cleveland was down to Mayfield and Allen. NBC's Dan Patrick reported the same on Monday. For what it's worth, GM John Dorsey's righthand man Scot McCloughan has said for awhile that Mayfield is his No. 1.
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Soulfly3 said:
Im avoiding this thread til Thurs nite... It's getting way too wild up in here. 

See ya on the best day of our lives. 
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Good luck tonight Fly.  The Browns are not my team but I hope they draft extremely well this week.  They have a chance of turning the team around this year and taking over the AFC N in 2019. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
If I knew for a fact Nelson would be a hall of fame guard, I still would not take him at 1.
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This prompts an old trivia question:  In the 60s, the Browns drafted a HOF guard who never played a down for them.  Who?

No spoilers please if you heard it before.

 
MAC_32 said:
I'm not going to speak for others, but for me - I'm not disputing that Barkley is the best player in the draft.  I don't believe he's the most valuable though.  Taking into account the supply of RB's available, their actual value to a team, and the potential replacement options later - Barkley would need to already be what his fans expect him to become for me to consider him at the top of the draft.
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So if the Browns draft for biggest need at 1.1 and take a chance on getting a good QB, then why not take the BPA at 4? 

 
ghostguy123 said:
I know what I think it means, but when I hear people talk about it everyone seems to have a different definition.  

Some people say "BPA regardless of position".  I don't.  

I say "the player who will have he most positive impact on my team for the next 5+ years".  For example, if you think Barkley is the BPA but you have Gurley, then taking Barkley would be idiotic.
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And taking Darnold at 1.1 would be idiotic if the Browns had Wentz.  But since the Browns don't have Wentz or Gurley, why not take Darnold and then Barkley?  Why pass up what I think (and many others think) is the BPA? 

The Browns have many directions that they could go and still hit this draft out of the park.  If they choose the wrong QB though, the Browns will struggle no matter how well they draft.  It is a QB driven league.  I think the Giants take Barkley at 1.2 so this whole discussion about Barkley going to the Browns at 1.4 probably does not matter.

 
DocHolliday said:
So if the Browns draft for biggest need at 1.1 and take a chance on getting a good QB, then why not take the BPA at 4? 
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I'm not a BPA guy.  I think it's a simple approach to a very complex puzzle.  It's easier to execute and explain, but I don't believe it maximizes value.  Skill, fit, need, traits, quality of alternatives, among other things - it all goes into it.  And in the end I'm looking at the pool of RB's that will be available in round 2, probably round 3, and maybe even round 4.  Then I'm looking at what's available at other positions - premium positions.  And I'm not seeing starters whereas I'm seeing starters at RB.  In a vacuum, I'm going to get more out of my draft adding one of the other premium players then addressing RB later.  But it isn't that simple either - because you're also weighing trades as you go too.

There's a time and a place to pick Barkley in round 1, but I'm not doing it at the top of it.  When that first tier ends then I will, but someone else will before I'm ready.  Even if he's better than all of them I don't think he's so much better that I have to have him over those premium alternatives and a different RB later.

 
daveR said:
MKC is largely an unwitting mouthpiece.  Don't expect actual insight from her, but be aware that someone is behind her statements.

ETA:  Usually, it's nonsense.
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I still think Dorsey is pulling puppet strings and MKC one of them. Yesterday there were four separate pundits that proclaimed the Browns were taking Darnold or Allen or Mayfield. The only one I haven't heard anything at all about is Rosen who will probably be the pick.

 
Whassap fellow northcoasters...  I've been catching up and enjoying the thread after being out of the country for a while.  Here's my .o2

Don't want Mayfield unless it's w/ a 2nd rounder.  Smells like Johnny$  v2  

Not sold on Darnold with his turnover issues in college, which I can't see improving in the NFL

Don't want Dorsey to take a qb at 1 or 4 unless he's damn sure about it.  He's either gonna be the GM for a decade + or out in 2 years based on this weekend.  In Dorsey we trust.

I know it won't be popular, but I'd be fine (actually happier) with chubb @1 and barkely or the ND G nelson @ 4.  BPA early and often.  Soooo many holes to fill on this team. I'd prefer we wait till the top of the 2nd w/ 2 more early picks and take who falls at qb.  Thinking Jackson or Rudolph (who i like more than most).  Or, use those 2nd rounders to come back into end of the 1st for the QB they like.  

Don't want to trade down in the 1st.  Don't want to trade down in the 1st.  Don't want to trade down in the 1st. 

I like Rosen best at qb and would be OK w chubb #1 and rosen at 4 if available.  Gimme the 6'4" uber intelligent guy who can make all the throws.

Then another (non barkely) stud RB in the 2nd.  Maybe the deepest skill position in this draft. 

It's like xmas eve for us browns fans.  We are due... Time to end the factory of sadness  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBDMMVctu8

ETA - there's no way soulfly avoids this thread till tomorrow night

 
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ghostguy123 said:
So he is the best RB in the draft.  Ok, I can get on board with that.  

How do you personally determine who is the "best player in the draft" between a RB, DE, QB, WR..................

That label is hyperbole at it's absolute worst.
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Thank you. That was exactly my point.

 
steelers1080 said:
https://thebiglead.com/2018/03/23/dave-gettlemans-track-record-suggests-hes-not-likely-to-trade-down-with-giants/

He has never traded down. I heard in an interview from "NFL Insiders" that it's widely known that he asks for too much in trade downs and doesn't ask for reasonable compensation. I think the chances of him trading down are less than 5%, but we only have to wait 1 more day to see.
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Trade down????  Gettleman gonna trade down with himself?  What on earth are you talking about?

I was talking about him trading UP anyway, not down.  

 
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thecardiackid said:
I know it won't be popular, but I'd be fine (actually happier) with chubb @1 and barkely or the ND G nelson @ 4.  BPA early and often.  Soooo many holes to fill on this team.
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So many holes to fill, but you'd be ok taking Nelson at a position where we have 2 solid, highly paid guys?

I'd prefer we wait till the top of the 2nd w/ 2 more early picks and take who falls at qb.  Thinking Jackson or Rudolph (who i like more than most).  Or, use those 2nd rounders to come back into end of the 1st for the QB they like.  
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"Taking the QB who falls" is how you end up with 20 years of ####ty QBs.

 
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