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Cleveland Browns (9 Viewers)

Kudos to the Browns GM trading all those linemen. 31 other teams are "dying" to get a better backup lineman and he's got the depth two trade two or three away.

 
Bri said:
A Landry or ODB injury probably makes him an FF stud.
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Possibly but people were asking why we'd go after any WR since its been reported that we are deep at WR.

The reason is Calloway's suspension.  Taylor has a shot to stick but right now he's on what appears to be a four game tryout.  

Hopefully he is a ST contributor right away and then it looks like he can make things happen in space with speed to take it to the house so I'd look for gadget plays as he gets his feet wet before looking for him to be a deep threat opposite OBJ. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Possibly but people were asking why we'd go after any WR since its been reported that we are deep at WR.

The reason is Calloway's suspension.  Taylor has a shot to stick but right now he's on what appears to be a four game tryout.  

Hopefully he is a ST contributor right away and then it looks like he can make things happen in space with speed to take it to the house so I'd look for gadget plays as he gets his feet wet before looking for him to be a deep threat opposite OBJ. 
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Calloway seemed to take great advantage of broken down plays, but when I saw the Browns, he wasn't that much in the regular offense. You'd know more than me

 
Well that was embarrassing. Browns need to trade for Trent Williams now. Like, right now. Give up next years 1st, IDGAF.

 
Tecumseh said:
Well that was embarrassing. Browns need to trade for Trent Williams now. Like, right now. Give up next years 1st, IDGAF.
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Didn't they trade away one of their better OL before the season?

 
amnesiac said:
it’s one game.  

let’s take a deep breath.  

and hope like hell they beat the Jets next week. 
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Yep, just cant start 0-2. Obviously would be a whole lot more relaxing to ensure the w earlier today. Or not to lose like that. But I think this team bounces back strong. 

 
They looked bad in every way possible.  Total regression from the last half of last year.  Totally looked like a Hue Jackson team.

 
Random said:
They looked bad in every way possible.  Total regression from the last half of last year.  Totally looked like a Hue Jackson team.
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Thats a bit of an over-reaction.  Hue's team wouldn't have moved the ball or scored any points.

I didn't get a chance to watch, but what was with all the penalties yesterday?  Listening to the radio, it seemed like a lot of ticky-tack calls.  Regardless, can't let the refs dictate the game flow.

What happened with Robinson?  Did I hear correctly that he kicked a Titans player in the head?  Is he now suspended for a couple of games, or able to return for NYJ next week?

That LT spot is cursed once JT left.  No one has really hung around at that spot very long.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Who are you referring to?
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Don't feed the trolls. I think the best part about this thread is we are mostly even keeled Browns fans. We don't always agree (a good thing), but we are generally grounded in reality. The chirping the trolls are referring to are primarily national. We don't control what the hot take machine talks about. If you're tired of hearing about the Browns then just change the channel.

Peak said:
Thats a bit of an over-reaction.  Hue's team wouldn't have moved the ball or scored any points.

I didn't get a chance to watch, but what was with all the penalties yesterday?  Listening to the radio, it seemed like a lot of ticky-tack calls.  Regardless, can't let the refs dictate the game flow.

What happened with Robinson?  Did I hear correctly that he kicked a Titans player in the head?  Is he now suspended for a couple of games, or able to return for NYJ next week?

That LT spot is cursed once JT left.  No one has really hung around at that spot very long.
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The penalties and the Robinson ejection were well earned. Sure, you can microscope particular plays. The in-the-grasp sack call also comes to mind. Those calls go both ways though. Don't get blinded by fandom eyes. We penaltied our way out of the game plan then the flood gates opened late. This is an important week for Freddie, Baker, and the rest of the team leadership. I don't think they will fix all that ails us, but I trust they'll get enough done so Monday ends differently than yesterday.

 
MAC_32 said:
The penalties and the Robinson ejection were well earned. Sure, you can microscope particular plays. The in-the-grasp sack call also comes to mind. Those calls go both ways though. Don't get blinded by fandom eyes. We penaltied our way out of the game plan then the flood gates opened late. This is an important week for Freddie, Baker, and the rest of the team leadership. I don't think they will fix all that ails us, but I trust they'll get enough done so Monday ends differently than yesterday.
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:goodposting:

That was a tough watch man. Damn what a disappointment. I don't really have much more than that. Mac summed up the penalties very well. I was trying to get the hash tag #gofor200 going but it was too late.

This week will be pivotal for them. One of the biggest #####es i had with Hue was the undisciplined nature of his teams (even to the point of documenting them for a while) because of all the penalties. To see that yesterday I was right back there again. Just horribly undisciplined. Going to take a lot of work to right that wrong BUT I think this team can turn it around. One other thing I didn't like was Freddie's presser after the game. I would have preferred he said something more like I'm going to put a boot in someones ### next practice and the penalties WILL NOT continue. He was a little more laid back than I care for. And while he's right, it's only one game, I wouldn't trot that out after the ### whoopin they took yesterday.

 
The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop

 
Rubi said:
The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop
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It's one game. The Browns are still a talented team.  Don't forget how far the Browns have come in two years.  

 
18 penalties is a direct result of coaching, no excuse.  This can be cleared up and it better or Freddie will be a one-and-done'r.

The O-Line is a big problem, the QB and WRs can't get any chemistry if the QB is running for his life.  Time in the pocket is the key for Baker.  Hubbard is a Dorsey issue because he can't block speed rushers off the edge but Robinson is a coaching issue since he got tossed for kicking a guy and that is a coaching issue.

The D will probably be ok.  We had a matchup issue and had to sit Avery and started some JAG at OLB to try and matchup with the big Titan RB and we saw what happened.  They beat us up and wore us down and then play-actioned us to death.

-----------------------------------

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles

PFF stats show four teams that used play action to an extreme amount: • #Ravens (50.0%) won 59-10 • #Cowboys (46.6%) won 35-17 • #Chiefs (45.5%) won 40-26 • #Titans (43.3%) won 43-13 No other team was over 35.7% PA. It’s almost like play action passing is wildly effective.

11:42 AM - 9 Sep 2019

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles 3h3 hours ago

Mariota was 7 of 11 for 217 yards and 3 TDs on play action. Screen to Henry obviously a big chunk, but 6 of 10 for 142 is STILL 14.2 YPA with 2 TDs. God bless Arthur Smith if this is the direction he is taking this offense.

------------------------------------

Play action works if you can run and is even better with a mobile QB.  Wilk's D is built to stop the new-look NFL that typically goes four-wides.  This week facing LeVeon who played four snaps in the slot presents a new challenge but they are going to try and attack us with play-action till we show we can stop it.

 
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Rubi said:
The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop
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It was just 15 points until the screen pass td - 2 from a safety. Then the final 3 were all directly from interceptions in our own territory, one returned for td. 

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
18 penalties is a direct result of coaching, no excuse.  This can be cleared up and it better or Freddie will be a one-and-done'r.

The O-Line is a big problem, the QB and WRs can't get any chemistry if the QB is running for his life.  Time in the pocket is the key for Baker.  Hubbard is a Dorsey issue because he can't block speed rushers off the edge but Robinson is a coaching issue since he got tossed for kicking a guy and that is a coaching issue.

The D will probably be ok.  We had a matchup issue and had to sit Avery and started some JAG at OLB to try and matchup with the big Titan RB and we saw what happened.  They beat us up and wore us down and then play-actioned us to death.

-----------------------------------

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles

PFF stats show four teams that used play action to an extreme amount: • #Ravens (50.0%) won 59-10 • #Cowboys (46.6%) won 35-17 • #Chiefs (45.5%) won 40-26 • #Titans (43.3%) won 43-13 No other team was over 35.7% PA. It’s almost like play action passing is wildly effective.

11:42 AM - 9 Sep 2019

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles 3h3 hours ago

Mariota was 7 of 11 for 217 yards and 3 TDs on play action. Screen to Henry obviously a big chunk, but 6 of 10 for 142 is STILL 14.2 YPA with 2 TDs. God bless Arthur Smith if this is the direction he is taking this offense.

------------------------------------

Play action works if you can run and is even better with a mobile QB.  Wilk's D is built to stop the new-look NFL that typically goes four-wides.  This week facing LeVeon who played four snaps in the slot presents a new challenge but they are going to try and attack us with play-action till we show we can stop it.
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Robinson is a Robinson issue. 

But, agreed about play action and Arthur Smith.

And the Avery decision was a mistake, regardless of the matchup. 

 
Peak said:
Thats a bit of an over-reaction.  Hue's team wouldn't have moved the ball or scored any points.

I didn't get a chance to watch, but what was with all the penalties yesterday?  Listening to the radio, it seemed like a lot of ticky-tack calls.  Regardless, can't let the refs dictate the game flow.

What happened with Robinson?  Did I hear correctly that he kicked a Titans player in the head?  Is he now suspended for a couple of games, or able to return for NYJ next week?

That LT spot is cursed once JT left.  No one has really hung around at that spot very long.
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Actually Hue's team scored 26 in'16 and 9 in '17 against the Titans.  Penalties, missed xpts, I cant believe anyone that watched the game could think any different.  Robinson looked like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.  Garrett slapped someone.  Baker looked like Johnny.  They looked lost.  On both sides of the ball.  I don't think thats a one game and fix it problem.  

 
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MAC_32 said:
Yep, Zeitler for Vernon.
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NFL Research‏Verified account @NFLResearch

In tonight's loss to the Saints, J.J. Watt failed to record at least 1 tackle or 1 QB hit for the first time in 105 career games.

8:34 PM - 9 Sep 2019

---------------------------------

Heck it only took Olivier Vernon his first game with the Browns to match J.J. with an ⚪-fer in the stat sheet.

 
New head coach who was never even a coordinator till last year, new coordinators, offense didnt get to play together in preseason, bunch of new players on D.................laying a week 1 egg isn't remotely surprising.  It sucks and it hurts, but not surprising.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
New head coach who was never even a coordinator till last year, new coordinators, offense didnt get to play together in preseason, bunch of new players on D.................laying a week 1 egg isn't remotely surprising.  It sucks and it hurts, but not surprising.  
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Losing the way we did was surprising, but it may have also been the best thing to happen to this group.

 
MAC_32 said:
Losing the way we did was surprising, but it may have also been the best thing to happen to this    group   coaching staff.
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18 penalties, not being prepared, undisciplined, no halftime adjustments of note, poor play calling especially down with 90 yards to go with back-to-back penalties and then a sack for a safety, zero reps in preseason with skill positions to iron out kinks, etc et el...

 
Not easy to evaluate many things when there are like 18 penalties for 200 yds.  It changes quite a bit, but there were a few times where I questioned Freddie's calls.  People keep bringing up the safety, but the consecutive 2nd/3rd and 1 throws followed by a punt (I believe from Titan's territory iirc) is a bigger head scratcher. 

I do think the OL could be a worrisome topic all year, but we should be reminded at one point we were down to 5 healthy (active, yes I'm looking at you Corbett) lineman during this game. 

I also understand why Avery may have been limited, but not to the extent he was limited.  The defense wore down, he should have played more.

 
Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.

 
MAC_32 said:
Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.
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“Truthful hyperbole’ is a contradiction in terms. It’s a way of saying, ‘It’s a lie, but who cares?’ ”
― Tony Schwartz

This team has talent and wasn't prepared, made no halftime adjustments, and the play calling can be questioned.

We lost the opener.  Teams that win the opener have a slight advantage, a 52% chance to make the playoffs.

Teams that lose the opener are at a huge disadvantage, only a 25% chance to make the playoffs.

This team can't be a place for Freddie Kitchens to learn on the job where he's got to fail miserably before he can spot issues.

Freddie Kitchens head coaching debut did not go as planned – Touchdown Alabama Magazine

... questions about his experience and whether he even deserved consideration have been a constant dialogue throughout training camp.

...Cleveland looked overmatched the entire game despite having the roster advantage on paper.

...The Brown’s offense was expected to thrive this season with all the weapons they have. It’s also Kitchens calling card as a coach since he served as the interim offensive coordinator in 2018. Yet the offense could not get into any rhythm at all.

...What may be the most egregious stat of the night was how undisciplined the entire team was during the game. Cleveland finished the game with 18 penalties for 182 yards. On the outside that may suggest that the coach doesn’t have a good grasp on his player’s in-game emotions.

...The questions about Kitchens legitimacy will continue to circulate through the media until he can put together some wins.

Despite the lopsided first game, Cleveland has way too much talent on both sides of the roster to not figure something out. 
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That is from a Bama paper.  We all love the guy but the team is too good and we've waited too long.  Their aren't any excuses.

 
MAC_32 said:
Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.
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In general, I agree.  I just think the one sequence should be mentioned before the safety.  

 
Bobcat10 said:
If that's the case, pack it up seasons over.  

C'mon man, almost as bad as the argument that they weren't prepared.  
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It's time to step away for a while if you took that post serious enough to reply in this way.

And why the way, they actually weren't prepared.  Seemed pretty obvious.

 
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ghostguy123 said:
It's time to step away for a while if you took that post serious enough to reply in this way.

And why the way, they actually weren't prepared.  Seemed pretty obvious.
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I take all posts seriously.  Sarcasm is not always easy to decipher.  Honestly, I have no idea what makes your post funny or worth posting to be sarcastic.  That's not the first time I've read that about the EP (just the first time in here, I think).

I guess you'd have to define "prepared".  You can get your ### kicked up and down the field on any given Sunday and still have been well "prepared".  To me, discipline, execution, and preparedness are very different animals.

 
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Interesting read I thought I'd share here.  Take it for what it's worth.  19 penalties is excessive and screams of undisciplined play by the team.  Add in the fact that it has been centered around the same Referee who was part of the CLE/TEN crew, and now you have conspiracy theories flying around about the league calling for the refs to pull a code red on the Browns to deflate them and "put them in their place".   :tinfoilhat:

Scott Petrak (Twitter): Here’s what #Browns DT Devaroe Lawrence told me about his 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Official to him: Watch where the #### you’re going.

Lawrence: #### you.

Official was said to be Brad Allen
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Refs for the TEN/CLE game: Barry Anderson, Jim Mello, Greg Yette, Steve Zimmer, Brad Allen, Brian Bolinger, Jimmy Russell

Twitter: Ref Brad Allen’s crew called 18 penalties for 182 yds against CLE in their loss to TEN, the most ever called by his crew. Interestingly the Titans have been the beneficiaries in the two games that rank 2nd and 3rd. #NFLKickoff #Browns

9/18/16:  Lions vs Titans - 17 Penalties for 138 yds on Lions

11/6/16: Chargers vs Titans - 14 Penalties for 107 yds on Chargers
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Mike Roadk (Twitter): Ref Brad Allen, on open mic, to officials in huddle: “There needs to be a meeting of the minds with BUF coach as to why we picked up flag." (Bills @ Bears, 9/7/14)
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Interesting stats about Brad Allen taken from an ESPN story from 2016:

Most- and least-penalized referee
Referee Brad Allen's crew led the NFL this season with an average of 18.4 penalties called per game; they called at least 20 in five games. Bill Vinovich's crew ranked at the bottom, with 12.5 penalties per game, having never called more than 16 in one outing.

That's nearly a 50 percent discrepancy between the the highest and lowest crews, statistics every NFL team tracks as it prepares for games. Here's a full ranking of the 17 crews:

2016 NFL officiating report
Referee Penalties per game
Allen, Brad 18.4
McAulay, Terry 18.3
Boger, Jerome 18
Triplette, Jeff 17.8
Hussey, John 17.5
Anderson, Walt 17.3
Parry, John 16.7
Blakeman, Clete 16.3
Hochuli, Ed 15.7
Cheffers, Carl 15.1
Corrente, Tony 15.1
Torbert, Ronald 14.9
Coleman, Walt 14.8
Morelli, Pete 13.9
Steratore, Gene 13.5
Wrolstad, Craig 13.1
Vinovich, Bill 12.5
* Includes accepted, declined and offsetting
Source: ESPN Stats & Information
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