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Cleveland Browns (2 Viewers)

That's what we were for, what, almost 20 years in a row?  Gimme the road win all day long and let's move on.  I think we'll progress in general, not regress.  

Avery - now it's a pattern

Freddie - calling passes inside the 2-min warning up 20?  Feels like he's trying to get them to work out the kinks (for much of the 4th quarter actually) rather than being an idiot coach like most probably think.  Still, I don't agree with it.

 
Freddie - calling passes inside the 2-min warning up 20?  Feels like he's trying to get them to work out the kinks (for much of the 4th quarter actually) rather than being an idiot coach like most probably think.
Sorry about last night.

I actually thought it was indeed this. Not being macho like some said, but working out offensive kinks. Still unwise, IMHO. 

 
Sorry about last night.

I actually thought it was indeed this. Not being macho like some said, but working out offensive kinks. Still unwise, IMHO. 
:thumbup:

Honestly I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted my post.  I was only referring to the play itself (all the Myles should be suspended and similar posts), not the injury.  I don't root for or mock serious injuries.  

The macho stuff is headliner stuff.  Talking/Argument points.  I don't think Freddie does things to be macho.  I'll need to see more of this to start questioning him.

 
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Siebert and the Hammer looked great.  Gotta give props there.  

Vernon has kind of been invisible to me.  Kirksey too....I wonder if he's losing snaps.  Need to look at the logs.  

 
The team looked.....good.  But something was still off.  Not sure I can put my finger on it.  The moxy of last year isn't there?  The reckless abandon?  There were some good plays.  There were some bonehead mistakes.  They won, but it didn't feel the same.  I can't put my thumb on it better than that, I guess.  The missing moxy...the "always feel like you're playing from behind" mentality this team had last year.  I haven't seen it yet in 2019.  I don't know.  Thats the best I can verbalize it right now.  

 
The team looked.....good.  But something was still off.  Not sure I can put my finger on it.  The moxy of last year isn't there?  The reckless abandon?  There were some good plays.  There were some bonehead mistakes.  They won, but it didn't feel the same.  I can't put my thumb on it better than that, I guess.  The missing moxy...the "always feel like you're playing from behind" mentality this team had last year.  I haven't seen it yet in 2019.  I don't know.  Thats the best I can verbalize it right now.  
There's a disconnect between Freddie, Monken, and Baker. The opening script has been fine, but they didn't have penalties to fall back on this week once out of the script.

 
The team looked.....good.  But something was still off.  Not sure I can put my finger on it.
DCs are really trying, and succeeding, in fooling Baker by making him do multiple reads before the snap and then changing coverage once the play beings where he's got to make reads on the fly and he's been facing pressure so he can't set his feet and move-up in the pocket like he did last year.  They are pressuring him up the middle, forcing him to move laterally and also changing from man to zone or zone to man.

OK, well its a duel-edged sword because with the defense shifting and moving and moving on the snap it not only causing confusion to the offense it opens up more potential for blown coverage like we saw on the OBJ busted coverage where, oops no-one was covering him and the S was lined up in G-Will town twenty yards off the LOS.  

That is the price DCs will pay for all of that movement and once things slow down for Baker and 'if' we get better protection and once the chemistry alchemates with the WRs the offense can start humming.

 
DCs are really trying, and succeeding, in fooling Baker by making him do multiple reads before the snap and then changing coverage once the play beings where he's got to make reads on the fly and he's been facing pressure so he can't set his feet and move-up in the pocket like he did last year.  They are pressuring him up the middle, forcing him to move laterally and also changing from man to zone or zone to man.

OK, well its a duel-edged sword because with the defense shifting and moving and moving on the snap it not only causing confusion to the offense it opens up more potential for blown coverage like we saw on the OBJ busted coverage where, oops no-one was covering him and the S was lined up in G-Will town twenty yards off the LOS.  

That is the price DCs will pay for all of that movement and once things slow down for Baker and 'if' we get better protection and once the chemistry alchemates with the WRs the offense can start humming.
I'm curious if a second watch will yield something different, but I don't think this was the case at all last night and I think he was more at fault week 1 than the OL. I think more TE's and less 5th string WR's would help though.

 
Last thing.  Can't believe I forgot to mention it as I noticed it happening all game long and it was my most important take away from the game.

We're taking WAY too long between plays getting back up to the LOS.  Pre-snap reads are being rushed or nonexistent on too many plays.  I don't know what the bottleneck is at the moment, but that must be fixed ASAP, probably more than anything else if you want to see some offensive fluidity like we saw last year.

 
Last thing.  Can't believe I forgot to mention it as I noticed it happening all game long and it was my most important take away from the game.

We're taking WAY too long between plays getting back up to the LOS.  Pre-snap reads are being rushed or nonexistent on too many plays.  I don't know what the bottleneck is at the moment, but that must be fixed ASAP, probably more than anything else if you want to see some offensive fluidity like we saw last year.
That's contributing to my disconnect perception.

 
I'm curious if a second watch will yield something different, but I don't think this was the case at all last night and I think he was more at fault week 1 than the OL. I think more TE's and less 5th string WR's would help though.
12 personnel usage is way down from last year I believe and Baker was deadly in that last season.

 
I'm curious if a second watch will yield something different, but I don't think this was the case at all last night and I think he was more at fault week 1 than the OL. I think more TE's and less 5th string WR's would help though.
Unfortunately we cut our only legit in-line TE, the guys we are 'not-good' at blocking.  Njoku is our best receiving TE and he's in concussion protocol.  The guy Dorsey got from KC has struggled according to reports and the other guys seem like JAGs at this point even if they 'flashed' in preseason.

Chubb gets yanked in obvious passing situations, well because he's not great catching the ball and he's not good in pass-pro.  People don't like to hear it because he's such a great runner and 'occasionally' makes a play in the passing game but their is a reason why he gets yanked.

The timing is Baker making multiple reads.  Go back and look.  He gets up to the LOS and he's looking, and looking, and looking, while the clock burns.  I'm screaming for him to snap the ball but DCs are doing a good job of confusing him.  He needs time in the pocket to make reads on the fly but I think things will slow down for him even if he's constantly on the run this year.

 
Never felt that way at all.  Interesting.  

Much cleaner game from my perspective.  

Did you have lofty semi-unrealistic expectations to begin with?  Many people did.  And that's ok.
Not sure it could have been worse, so in that regards, I agree.  But they still looked worse than the second half of last year.

Yes.  Maybe.  I was hopeful for 9 wins.  Now thinking maybe 5?

 
I was hopeful for 9 wins.  Now thinking maybe 5?
Still think 9 is a fair number for this team. Think they are still gelling from the abbreviated pre-season snaps they took together so every game I'm looking for improvements. There were certainly some this week, never as much as you would like but a 20 point MNF road win is a 20 point MNF road win! Yes we played their second string, yes I never got the dominate feeling a 20 point victory should fill you with but regardless it's a win and no major injuries.

What's troubling are the penalties but I think they will work themselves out. I don't remember any drive killers this week so :thumbup: There's nothing that takes the air out of the balloon quicker than a stupid penalty on long drive. Baker's flying the ball...lot of contributing things that could be causing that but he needs to settle in the pocket or learn to throw on the move again because he's sailing a lot of balls. As was eluded to, Baker having to make multiple reads in the pocket. I think that will come but you could tell he was uncomfortable in the pocket Monday. They are going to have to establish the run this week, quit going away from it when it's working. And probably the #1 thing I noticed is for all the complaining we've done over the years about check down QB's, I'm hoping Baker remembers he has an underneath option on about every play and doesn't need to go downfield all the time.

Good win, needed win, still plenty to work on and improve but heading in the right direction. Would love to see a close, hard fought game this Sunday with it coming down to Seibert nailing a 53 yarder as the clock expires for the win.

 
Now that I've had a day to clear my head...I think we need to come out Sunday in no-huddle.
I like love this idea.  No huddle.  Go back to the 12 set they used last year.  The more comfortable and familiar, the better.  Quick strikes and runs.  Put the Rams on their heels.  You know they'll be looking at the last few weeks and preparing for that version of this team.  Come out and hit them in the jaw with last year's version.

 
they're going to get the ball out of baker's hands MUCH quicker going forward.

whether that is no huddle, or just more slants... the ball will come out much quicker, which should open things up for chubb

i know i sound like a broken record, but this offense needs to center around him running the ball. he is THAT good

 
Couple of points:

Jim Miller on Sirius said that Baker's footwork is way off from last year. He's overstriding, and pointing his lead foot towards the sideline, which is making him throw way off target. Why? Well... Pat Kirwan ran the numbers: during Baker's epic 7-game stretch to end the season last year, he was sack 3 times on 224 dropbacks. 1 sack for every 75 drop backs. That's insane. So far this year- 1 sack every 10 dropbacks. He got murdered week 1 against the Titans, and now he's pressing to get rid of the ball.

2nd: I don't know much about Monken, but apparently this love affair with the deep ball has his fingerprints all over it. Freddie is still calling the plays, but apparently what we're seeing shows a ton of Monken philosophy.

I actually think we'll look a lot better once Hilliard comes back. Baker seemed to really trust him last year, and with the focus on OBJ/Landry, Hilliard should get plenty of opportunities if Baker actually has time to look around.

Last: Chubb has something like 42-43 touches in the first two games. That's the right amount. The problem is the sequence. There's just no flow to the offense right now.

 
2nd: I don't know much about Monken, but apparently this love affair with the deep ball has his fingerprints all over it. Freddie is still calling the plays, but apparently what we're seeing shows a ton of Monken philosophy.
I was wondering why it looked like Air Coryell out there. Lots of long-developing routes, which ties into the pass protection and mechanics you talked about in your other points.

 
i still believe in Mayfield long term. 

i think the offense has been a combination of a lot of things and it worries me a bit that Kitchens has let it happen, but there is still time for them to fix it.  

they will need a great effort by the defense to keep it a low scoring game to have a chance. 

the line should be much higher than three, but i hope i’m wrong about that.  

 
Hubbard is in a walking boot. Can we pull the trigger on TWilliams now? Pretty please??
Adding OL in season wont fix anything. The most important aspect of an OL is cohesiveness and chemistry. It takes time to develop. Let this group develop. It's been fine the first two weeks. Not good, but fine. Hopefully it gets better. 

 
Adding OL in season wont fix anything. The most important aspect of an OL is cohesiveness and chemistry. It takes time to develop. Let this group develop. It's been fine the first two weeks. Not good, but fine. Hopefully it gets better. 
disagree.  they plugged in Robinson last year and instantly got better.  

and the line has not been fine.  

the line is not the only problem, but it’s one of them. 

 
disagree.  they plugged in Robinson last year and instantly got better.  

and the line has not been fine.  

the line is not the only problem, but it’s one of them. 
Then go find a Robinson. Dont use a 1 plus on a Williams. In season bandaids can work, but they're not optimal. Building with what you have is the play. And what we currently have is fine. 

 
I like love this idea.  No huddle.  Go back to the 12 set they used last year.  The more comfortable and familiar, the better.  Quick strikes and runs.  Put the Rams on their heels.  You know they'll be looking at the last few weeks and preparing for that version of this team.  Come out and hit them in the jaw with last year's version.
Problem with the 12 now is Njoku is out , we weren't running it with him, and we don't really have any blocking TE (maybe Brown is considered that?).  Harris has struggled from what I can tell and he was a Dorsey guy.  Maybe he steps up.  RSJ likely isn't the answer.  Weird to say, but I miss Fells right now.

 
Problem with the 12 now is Njoku is out , we weren't running it with him, and we don't really have any blocking TE (maybe Brown is considered that?).  Harris has struggled from what I can tell and he was a Dorsey guy.  Maybe he steps up.  RSJ likely isn't the answer.  Weird to say, but I miss Fells right now.
Ya...I saw that last night.  Need to go get Fells and Charles off the woodpile.  Are they still FAs?  Agree with your takes on Harris and RSJ.  Need to transition this offense from the long ball back to the short, quick routes to get things firing again.

 
  Need to transition this offense from the long ball back to the short, quick routes to get things firing again.
this seems obvious to most of us, but will the coaches figure it out?

sometimes they can’t see the forest through the trees.  

 
this seems obvious to most of us, but will the coaches figure it out?

sometimes they can’t see the forest through the trees.  
I think that blurb in Roto about the sacks and needing to get the ball out quicker sort of hit them. Baker's aDOT puts him tenth in the NFL, his eight sacks about lead it.  

 
good to know.

do you feel there’s a disconnect amongst Monken/Kitchen/Mayfield?

or do they just need more time to gel?

something is off. 
Yes - all I can hope is that it's a quick fix and not the beginning of toxicity. Good album though.

 
it's been 2 games. we improved over week 1, and that's most important.

they'll adjust and improve as the season goes on. they'll figure it out.

 
NFL pass-blocking, pass-rushing rankings: 2019 PBWR, PRWR leaderboard

Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. La'el Collins, Cowboys, 100%
2. Mike McGlinchey, 49ers, 100%
3. Greg Robinson, Browns, 97%

Top 10 team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Browns, 74%
PFF shows different individual scores.  >>>  GRADES MATCHUP

The above ESPN pass rush win rate conspicuously didn't have NFL sack leader Myles Garret in the top-ten of pass rush win rate.

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Khalil Mack, Bears, 38%
2. Matthew Judon, Ravens, 33%
3. Josh Allen, Jaguars, 32%
4. Marcus Davenport, Saints, 32%
5. Takkarist McKinley, Falcons, 30%
6. Brandon Graham, Eagles, 30%
7. Dante Fowler Jr., Rams, 28%
8. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 28%
T9. Derek Barnett, Eagles, 27%
T9. Arden Key, Raiders, 27%
Yet Myles leads the league in sacks and sacks per pass rush attempt.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sheil Kapadia‏Verified account @SheilKapadia

Top 10 players through two weeks in terms of percentage of pass-rush snaps producing a sack or QBH:

1. Myles Garrett

2. Cam Wake 3. Sam Hubbard 4. Matt Judon 5. Shaq Barrett 6. Brian Burns 7. Marcus Davenport 8. Trey Hendrickson 9. Pernell McPhee 10. Ryan Kerrigan

7:27 AM - 19 Sep 2019

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Ya...I saw that last night.  Need to go get Fells and Charles off the woodpile.  Are they still FAs?  Agree with your takes on Harris and RSJ.  Need to transition this offense from the long ball back to the short, quick routes to get things firing again.
You should give the latest 'Locked On Browns' podcast a listen, these guys are excellent and they drill down on the injury to Njoku and the limited options we have.

---------------------------

David Njoku injury

Jeff-LJ-Lloyd‏ @Jeff_LJ_Lloyd

NEW @lockedonbrowns w/ @_PeteSmith_ David Njoku injury, not good maybe Seals-Jones can step up? The offense from coaches to players need to play at a faster pace. Why is Avery is not dressing? There's no ryhme or reason. #Browns

7:22 PM - 18 Sep 2019

 
do you thing Haslam arranged another shotgun marriage?

is it possible Kitchens only got the HC gig if he accepted an OC to help?

with their history, i can’t dismiss the thought.  
I think Dorsey has shoved Jimmy out of the way. He may throw a bone to him every now and then to make it seem like he's important, but he's only doing it when he knows they're on the same page. 

I wouldnt dismiss Dorsey arranging that marriage though. 

 
I think Dorsey has shoved Jimmy out of the way. He may throw a bone to him every now and then to make it seem like he's important, but he's only doing it when he knows they're on the same page. 

I wouldnt dismiss Dorsey arranging that marriage though. 
either way, they need to all get on the same page, and quick.  

 
amnesiac said:
either way, they need to all get on the same page, and quick.  
Take aways from Monday Night

Mayfield seems to be holding on to the ball too long. He is attempting to get the big play with each play consisting of long-developing routes. He continues to try to keep the play alive until the very last second like we are playing backyard football. It makes the offense look ragged, and they need more time on the field together. 
Doug Farrar‏ @NFL_DougFarrar

There are changes in coverage looks that happen in the last 2-3 seconds of the pre-snap phase that are messing with the heads of a lot of young quarterbacks. Especially the young quarterback in Cleveland.

9:24 AM - 19 Sep 2019

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Jake Trotter‏Verified account @Jake_Trotter

Per NFL Next Gen Stats, Baker Mayfield is averaging 3.07 seconds to throw, the 3rd highest in NFL. When he throws within 2.5 seconds: 74%, 2 TDs/1 INT; when he throws in over 2.5 seconds: 55%, 0 TDs/3 INTs.

7:34 AM - 17 Sep 2019

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He's got the time to throw and if he's got an easy read and gets rid of the ball quick he has success but if he holds onto the ball too long his numbers plummet.

The primary issue isn't getting the play down to the field and the primary issue is not pressure.  Baker is holding the ball too long.

He is seeing sophisticated looks and has to make multiple reads as the clock ticks.  If the clock forces a snap the defense can tee off.

Beckham is the deep threat and those routes take longer to develop so he may be looking-off the gimme short-throws waiting for deep routes to break open.

No Duke and losing Njoku doesn't help but Baker has had what looked like easy short completions and hasn't pulled the trigger but he isn't calling for the snap until the clock ticks down and the reason 'appears' to be the confusing coverage reads he has been shown.  

Peyton won games by getting to the LOS quick and reading coverage and taking the easy-short throws.  

Bake has got to add a lil-more Peyton to his game.  >>>>>>  Omaha

 
Elijah McGuire: Joins Browns' practice squad(RotoWire) McGuire has been added to the Browns' practice squad. Analysis: McGuire, a 2017 sixth-rounder, racked up 180 carries for 591 yards and four TDs, to go along with 36 catches for 370 yards and two receiving scores for the Jets in 24 games over the course of the 2017 and 2018 campaigns. He therefore gives the Browns a depth option at running back with some recent NFL experience under his belt.

 

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