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***Official Jays Thread*** Lots of optimism, again. (3 Viewers)

Lawrie to the DL - expected to be out a month

So can the Blue Jays stand E5 at third again or do they use Gomes/Vizquel?

Opens playing time for both Snider and Gose if they use EE at third

 
2-0 since the 10 player trade.

Happ and Lyon looked good in their debuts tonight, the Jays were/are so desperate for big league arms, if they can be average MLB pitchers they'll help a ton - and needed now that Jason Frasor has gone on the DL for the first time in his 500+ appearance MLB career.

Snider has made a couple great defensive plays already that Thames/Davis don't make and has been decent at the plate.

Gose looks pretty overmatched and is likely back to AAA as soon as Bautista is healthy, likely 2014 at earliest before he's a regular. His one hit was a lucky bunt single and his swing just doesn't look good, basically the scouting report on him looks to be dead on - great defense, arm and speed but not bat yet, still he's only 21.

Villanueva and Laffey have both strung together a couple good starts in a row, right now Romero might be the Jays worst starter. I would assume Happ replaces Cecil in the rotation pretty quickly.

Encarnacion just keeps on hitting, no let down at all with the big contract and 40 HR's looks like a safe bet if he stays healthy.

I don't think this team gets to a wild card spot unless Bautista and Morrow return pretty quickly and they add one more SP but it's fun to scoreboard watch and see the team only 3 GB.

 
Will Rajai still start vs. lefties? Toronto has 4 of 6 games vs. southpaws this week, so I'm leaning keeping him for one more week but only if he will start whenever a lefty is on the bump. I imagine since both Snider and Gose struggle vs. lefties that he will, just want to confirm.

 
I would assume Rajai starts vs. every lefty. He's the best of the 3 against them, probably will be Gose who sits if last night is an indication (lefty came in to face Snider, then Gose, they let Snider hit and put Rajai in for Gose).

 
Question for you guys who see the Jays broadcasts and coverage all the time - after E5's three run homer they switched to the studio for some comments from Greg Zaun and Hazel Mae ................. IS Hazel pregnant? or just eating every fatty food she can get her hands on? - looks like she had added 50 pounds since last seen on MLB network

 
'Captain Hook said:
Question for you guys who see the Jays broadcasts and coverage all the time - after E5's three run homer they switched to the studio for some comments from Greg Zaun and Hazel Mae ................. IS Hazel pregnant? or just eating every fatty food she can get her hands on? - looks like she had added 50 pounds since last seen on MLB network
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Now that you mention it, she does look a little beefy. I usually fast-forward through anything that involves Zaun though. I'll take a better look next time.
 
Ok, what is the deal with the pronunciation of Lawrie? Is it LORI or LOWRIE? MLB Network says LOWRIE, TIgers broadcasters saying LORI and I've heard both over the past year or so.

Oh, and this guy is one of the best fielders I've seen at 3B in a long time. Lots of in-between hops on that turf and he never seems to be fooled. Didn't you get this guy for a song?

 
'Doctor Detroit said:
Ok, what is the deal with the pronunciation of Lawrie? Is it LORI or LOWRIE? MLB Network says LOWRIE, TIgers broadcasters saying LORI and I've heard both over the past year or so_Oh, and this guy is one of the best fielders I've seen at 3B in a long time. Lots of in-between hops on that turf and he never seems to be fooled. Didn't you get this guy for a song?
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Came over in the Marcum deal.
 
'Epic Problem said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
Ok, what is the deal with the pronunciation of Lawrie? Is it LORI or LOWRIE? MLB Network says LOWRIE, TIgers broadcasters saying LORI and I've heard both over the past year or so_Oh, and this guy is one of the best fielders I've seen at 3B in a long time. Lots of in-between hops on that turf and he never seems to be fooled. Didn't you get this guy for a song?
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Came over in the Marcum deal.
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Guy's got some attitude issues, which is why he probably came over so cheaply. My guess is he finally grew up.ETA: He wasn't really doing well at 2B in the minors either. Didn't make the switch to 3B until he came to Toronto. His production exploded once he got to Toronto, which makes you wonder if he felt more comfortable with the easier position to field, things just magically clicked, or he reeeeeeally didn't want to play in Milwaukee.
 
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'Brady Marino said:
'Epic Problem said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
Ok, what is the deal with the pronunciation of Lawrie? Is it LORI or LOWRIE? MLB Network says LOWRIE, TIgers broadcasters saying LORI and I've heard both over the past year or so_Oh, and this guy is one of the best fielders I've seen at 3B in a long time. Lots of in-between hops on that turf and he never seems to be fooled. Didn't you get this guy for a song?
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Came over in the Marcum deal.
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Guy's got some attitude issues, which is why he probably came over so cheaply. My guess is he finally grew up.ETA: He wasn't really doing well at 2B in the minors either. Didn't make the switch to 3B until he came to Toronto. His production exploded once he got to Toronto, which makes you wonder if he felt more comfortable with the easier position to field, things just magically clicked, or he reeeeeeally didn't want to play in Milwaukee.
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Not really true. He was the Brewers' #1 prospect who'd hit well at the AA level as a 20 year old. The consensus view was that he wasn't a 2B and he'd end up at 3B or OF. Milwaukee was in win-now mode for the last year of Fielder's contract and they figured two relatively low cost years of Shaun Marcum was worth the long term hit.Lawrie has always been a bit intense.
 
'Doctor Detroit said:
Ok, what is the deal with the pronunciation of Lawrie? Is it LORI or LOWRIE? MLB Network says LOWRIE, TIgers broadcasters saying LORI and I've heard both over the past year or so_Oh, and this guy is one of the best fielders I've seen at 3B in a long time. Lots of in-between hops on that turf and he never seems to be fooled. Didn't you get this guy for a song?
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Every Jays broadcast (radio or TV) says LORI.I could see how his over the top intensity could piss people off (those kinda people annoy the hell out of me) but I haven't heard much about a bad attitude.
 
Thames to Seattle for reliever Steve Delabar

ETA: Hope AA has something else up his sleeve. The timing is particularly odd with Lind going on the DL.

 
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What do Rajai Davis, Anthony Gose, David Cooper and Yan Gomes have in common?

None should be anywhere near the starting lineup of an AL East team.

 
'Northern Voice said:
What do Rajai Davis, Anthony Gose, David Cooper and Yan Gomes have in common?None should be anywhere near the starting lineup of an AL East team.
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Neither should Snider. Hopefully there is something else to come. Funny reading Pirates thread. They believe Snider is 'power bat' that is really going to help :mellow: . In for a rude awakening.
 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Northern Voice said:
What do Rajai Davis, Anthony Gose, David Cooper and Yan Gomes have in common?None should be anywhere near the starting lineup of an AL East team.
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Neither should Snider. Hopefully there is something else to come. Funny reading Pirates thread. They believe Snider is 'power bat' that is really going to help :mellow: . In for a rude awakening.
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Whatever, we just disagree on Snider, I'll bump these quotes up when he hits 25 home runs next season.
 
'Northern Voice said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Northern Voice said:
What do Rajai Davis, Anthony Gose, David Cooper and Yan Gomes have in common?None should be anywhere near the starting lineup of an AL East team.
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Neither should Snider. Hopefully there is something else to come. Funny reading Pirates thread. They believe Snider is 'power bat' that is really going to help :mellow: . In for a rude awakening.
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Whatever, we just disagree on Snider, I'll bump these quotes up when he hits 25 home runs next season.
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I know that I'm one of the few Jays fan who is a non-believer. He very well could hit 25 next year. I'd rather see Toronto go out and get a legitimate bat instead of a 'possible' bat.
 
Great way to bump this thread:

Lawrie becoming an [icon] in the gay community.

Escobar wearing eye paint that says "You're a ######" (A gay slur)

Link

 
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I can't believe how spectacularly wrong this season went in every way.

- Morrow injured most of the year

- Romero completely loses his stuff

- Drabek, Hutchinson, McGowan, Litsch, Santos, Perez all go down for the season

- Henderson Alvarez regresses.

- Happ is a glimmer of hope at SP, therefore he goes down for the year.

- Arencibia injured large chunk of year

- Travis d'Arnaud goes down for the season and we don't get to see him when JPA is hurt

- Lind proves once and for all he's a ####ty ##### with a bad back

- Lawrie misses significant time, his power is MIA

- Bautista goes down for the year with what may be a chronic injury

- Rasmus shows flashes but is still a huge enigma

- Escobar has the worst wOBA of any starting SS, may be homophobic and is definitely stupid.

- Snider traded away :(

- Gose and Hechavarria make their long awaited debuts and show that they aren't ready.

- Kelly Johnson seemingly strikes out 4 times per game.

Did I miss anything there?

On the plus side,

- Edwin Encarnacion

- Bullpen looks solid, finally

- Villanueva? but he may be gone after the season

I think that's it.

 
'Northern Voice said:
I can't believe how spectacularly wrong this season went in every way.- Morrow injured most of the year- Romero completely loses his stuff- Drabek, Hutchinson, McGowan, Litsch, Santos, Perez all go down for the season- Henderson Alvarez regresses.- Happ is a glimmer of hope at SP, therefore he goes down for the year.- Arencibia injured large chunk of year- Travis d'Arnaud goes down for the season and we don't get to see him when JPA is hurt- Lind proves once and for all he's a ####ty ##### with a bad back- Lawrie misses significant time, his power is MIA- Bautista goes down for the year with what may be a chronic injury- Rasmus shows flashes but is still a huge enigma- Escobar has the worst wOBA of any starting SS, may be homophobic and is definitely stupid.- Snider traded away :( - Gose and Hechavarria make their long awaited debuts and show that they aren't ready.- Kelly Johnson seemingly strikes out 4 times per game.Did I miss anything there?On the plus side, - Edwin Encarnacion- Bullpen looks solid, finally- Villanueva? but he may be gone after the seasonI think that's it.
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Plus: -Lots of guys should be well rested for next year!-Morrow is a legit #1-The offense was fantastic until injuries-We don't have to hear about Snider anymore (he's even worse with the Pirates!)-The craptacular performance of the starters may put enough pressure on AA/Beaston to splurge on some FA pitchers this winter-Next year can't be any worse
 
Jays trade Farrell for Mike Aviles and the Jays throw prospect David Carpenter into the deal......WTF? I guess it's nice to know the Jays will be replacing Kelly Johnson with someone who's just as bad..

 
'Time Kibitzer said:
Jays trade Farrell for Mike Aviles and the Jays throw prospect David Carpenter into the deal......WTF? I guess it's nice to know the Jays will be replacing Kelly Johnson with someone who's just as bad..
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As long as they don't replace Farrell with someone who's just as bad, I'm okay.
 
It's a bit crazy that Farrell (154-170 with the Jays) will be the first Jays manager since Jimy Williams in 1989 to get a managerial job with another team:

He's also arguably the least successful in that time, aside from Buck Martinez. Those that didn't find new jobs:

Tim Johnson (88-74)

Jim Fregosi (167-157)

Carlos Tosca (191-191)

John Gibbons (305-305)

Buck Martinez (99-113)

Cito Gaston (799-759)

So favourites for the new job? I like Sandy Alomar Jr., Sal Fasano, Manny Acta. You'd have to think Brian Butterfield, Torey Lovullo and Don Wakamatsu get a look as guys who have been here. Longshots are the Brad Ausmus, Ryne Sandberg, Tim Wallach types who have come up elsewhere.

 
'Time Kibitzer said:
I'd probably be happy enough with Butterfield to be honest.
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I'd have no problem with Butterfield.This article sums up well why no Jays fans are overly upset about seeing a new manager

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/1274954--john-farrell-why-the-toronto-blue-jays-were-willing-to-let-him-go

Why were the Jays willing to listen this time and willing to let Farrell go, when a year ago it would have been regarded as bowing and scraping in the direction of Red Sox Nation?

First, if the Jays insisted on keeping Farrell and refused to let him go this time, they would have likely had to offer him a multi-year extension. He has not earned a multi-year extension and the feeling would have been that the new contract had been forced on them.

Second, the Jays' on-field discipline from Day 1 of the 2012 season was questionable at best. You had the incident with Brett Lawrie charging the home plate umpire and bouncing his helmet off a shin, with no apology -- even if it was just for the mere act of htting him with the helmet, even if it was unintentional. Throughout the first two months, as the Jays' star player Jose Bautista struggled, his flashes of anger towards umpires did not reflect well on the organization and the team. The Jays were getting a bad reputation. Farrell was in charge.

Just as the Farrell chatter to Boston was starting to heat up late in the season, more discipline issues unfolded. Shortstop Yunel Escobar played a full game with a homophobic slur handwritten in Spanish on his paste-on eyeblack. The manager and all the players denied they saw anything, but a sharp-eyed fan that traditionally takes photos from a couple of rows behind the dugout, went home and blew up a couple of shots, Tweeted about it and the rest is history. Farrell was unconvincing that nobody could have seen it.

The Latin players argued that the Escobar slur is common in their culture and was just supposed to be lighthearted and in jest. The shortstop was suspended for three games by the Jays, with the input of the players' union and MLB. Nevertheless, the Jays were embarrassed. The Jays don't like to be embarrassed.

Farrell later on in the final week was forced to call a team meeting after the retiring veteran Omar Vizquel called him out on his preparation, teaching and discipline with young players. Anthopoulos love affair with Farrell was undermined on many levels.

Then there were the mistakes in fundamentals, the baserunning gaffes, guys thrown out because of over-aggressiveness on the basepaths, at the wrong time and in the wrong game situations. There was Lawrie stealing home with Bautista batting and two strikes, because "I thought I could make it." That was not only dumb, but potentially dangerous. Bautista never knew he was coming and if it was a strike would have had to swing.

There were guys doubled off third base on line drives, thrown out at third to end an inning, a lack of execution of the bunting game that did not stop bunts from being called. The same mistakes were being made more than once and corrections seemed to be made only after the fact, which in major-league baseball, with the pace of the game, is too late.

Then there was the demise of Ricky Romero. It's difficult to blame the manager for the collapse of an ace who seemed perfectly healthy, but from the moment Farrell called Romero out with the challenge, "We're just looking for that same tough kid from East L.A." the relationship started to sour. The more Romero struggled, the more suggestions and public theories Farrell had. In his final start, a disgusted Romero watched Farrell emerge from the dugout to hook him, did not look at his manager as he arrived and walked off missing the handoff of the ball having to go back and give it to Farrell, again without looking. Farrell stared Romero off the field. The optics were not good, once again.

The Farrell mystique that was present in October 2011 when the Sox made their first arrogant attempt to steal the manager away from a division rival had largely disappeared by October 2012. The fact that Farrell did not tell Beeston and Anthopoulos he indeed wanted to stay in Toronto with the organization that gave him his first chance to manage in the big leagues, combined with the fact they were not ready to give him the extension that would have been required to keep him made the response to Boston different this year.

Face it. Without the Red Sox presence in this equation, Farrell would likely have been asked to work on the final year of his three-year deal to show that corrections had been made in the clubhouse and on the field. Speaking of which, Anthopoulos had never announced Farrell's contract was a three-year deal, but late in the season when the Sox rumours began, it was the manager that answered a direct question with a direct answer. Yes, he had one more year on his contract. Again, Anthopoulos was not pleased.
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Sounds about right. Still would have liked to see the Jays get some pitching help in return instead of a crappy 2B though.

 
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'Northern Voice said:
Meh, I think the staff, especially Farrell is easily replaced.

He wasn't very good
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I'm not saying the Jays should have kept Farrell, just that I'd rather the Jays not start from scratch with a brand new coaching staff as that will all but guarantee another year or 2 of mediocrity.
 
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