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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (1 Viewer)
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Widbil83
Footballguy
Denver could have had a lead a lot earlier if they didn't have terrible play calling. What was up with all those horrible run calls up the middle for no gain? 
Tebow's wrs stunk the place up too. He was off the mark on a few throws but most of the time they couldn't catch.
Tebow's wrs stunk the place up too. He was off the mark on a few throws but most of the time they couldn't catch.I don't think it is fair to call it a drop when the ball is spinning sideways.Denver could have had a lead a lot earlier if they didn't have terrible play calling. What was up with all those horrible run calls up the middle for no gain?
excellent post and point ha
Joe Summer
Footballguy
It was a thread title from yesteryear.
WalrusMan
Footballguy
They didn't want Tebow to get hurt. It's a fine line: their best plays are designed runs by Tebow or options, but if Tebow runs 20 times a game he WILL get hurt. So they didn't run much with him until they absolutely had to, and they eeked out a win.For this year it could work. If they get in the playoffs I imagine he'll be running 20+ times a game. Down the road though, he will have to become a better passer. Which he could.Denver could have had a lead a lot earlier if they didn't have terrible play calling. What was up with all those horrible run calls up the middle for no gain?
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fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
I asked this in the game thread...I wonder why they don't run an offense similar to Oregon's...spread, read-option, w/ passes thrown in, all done at light speed.
Especially, at elevation, with only 1 week to prepare for them, I don't think that's a bad idea.
I think they'd have to start it this off-season because the team (both offense and defense) would have to take their conditioning to a whole new level to be able to do it, but I wonder how it'd work w/ Tebow at the helm?
Especially, at elevation, with only 1 week to prepare for them, I don't think that's a bad idea.
I think they'd have to start it this off-season because the team (both offense and defense) would have to take their conditioning to a whole new level to be able to do it, but I wonder how it'd work w/ Tebow at the helm?
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
stop that lol ...both of youI threw up in my mouth a few times during his post game interview. Deion and Irving certainly don't help either, but hopefully the kid learns to cut down on the self-righteousness at some point
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
If Flutie were rebuilt as a tank, yes. That aside, it is a fair comparison as Flutie's hype always exceeded his ability.-QG
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I tend to agree. The wildcard though is that Tebow still has a chance to improve as a passer. And the thing is, I'm not talking improvement to Romo/Rivers/Schaub type accuracy, but Cassel/McCoy/Cutler range. Just good enough to consistently beat defenses selling out against the run. I understand that when we see stat lines like two completions in an entire NFL game, those are numbers tailor made for the argument against Tebow, but I think most are overestimating how much improvement he needs as a passer to be an effective long term QB.
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Widbil83
Footballguy
This is the first Denver game I have watched all year and one of the main things that jumped out at me was the drops. Tebow made some terrible throws, but a lot of those other passes should have been caught.I don't think it is fair to call it a drop when the ball is spinning sideways.Denver could have had a lead a lot earlier if they didn't have terrible play calling. What was up with all those horrible run calls up the middle for no gain?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
At this rate, it is comical to see the bashers sticking to their guns. Yes, he is an inaccurate passer, but the guy is clutch when it really matters, and he continues to win. When a player keeps making plays at the end of games to get his team wins, they are not flukes. I still have reservations about him as a long term solution, but for now, the guy is getting it done. It's ugly, but results are results.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
Call it interesting - most of us Bronco fans would use other words.This is fun in a way. Kind of like it's fun watching a guy walk a tight rope in 40mph gusting winds. You cheer when he makes it to the other side - but then you see him turn around to go back across again and think to yourself, "I don't know if that's such a good idea..."The problem is too many fans just see the wins and aren't looking long term. I hope our organization is not doing the same. Eventually we are going to have to throw against a defense that is actually ready for it. That's what I'm waiting to see and hopefully we can pass that test. (no pun intended)Anyway, hell of a job by John Fox. Those who know football know that what Fox has done in such a short time is nothing short of remarkable. I'm not sure many other coaches in the NFL could have changed their entire philosophy (or would even be willing to) to fit around Tebow - yet at the same time keep enough of the Offense around to take advantage of the rest of the player's skill sets, as well. At some point I think he just said, "F### it. Let's go all in." And he did. I don't see many other coaches going that road. He's really giving this a fair shot.I feel like I'm drinking hard at a party. I keep drinking and before I'm too trashed I think to myself "I'm going to regret this" but I continue to chug with a "Screw it" attitude. Right now we, in Denver, are drinking heavily from the Tebow shot glass. At some point we are going to wake up and we'll see how bad the hangover is.Or can we really win with this "Tebowed" offense in the NFL? No. I'm pretty sure not... ... right??Again - Let us pray.'proninja said:
Islanders rule
Footballguy
I live in Denver and was at the game tonight. It was electric. Most people (Bronco fans) could see the momentum Denver had because our "D" was playing great.The talk among many fans was that we needed to run the entire 5:45 off the clock in the final scoring drive so we didn't have to give the ball back to the Jets.The Jets got the ball back with 58 seconds I think and the Bronco fans (including me) were nervous. Simply put, the Defense stepped up again.Von Miller is a BEAST. ( ask Mark Sanchez ). It's a fun time in Denver, I can't wait to hear what Chris Carter has to say tomorrow.In one league, I started Tebow and Mc Knight (desperation play with Foster on Bye.) I got 16.96 from Tebow & 10.10 from Mc Knight.Bronco's started 1-4 with Orton, They are now 5-5 and will be tied for 1st place in the _rappy AFC west if Oakland loses to the Vikings in Minnesota.True, It's ugly and crazy, but a lot of fun.All the best, I hope the bounces go your way unless your playing me.Go Bronco's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yeah, Fox is definitely doing a great job. I liked it when they hired him, and he has that defense playing great, which is a big part of the current 4-1 run they are on. Tebow wouldn't be able to work his late game magic without the defense playing lights out. I was just saying to a friend the other day that if the running game and defense continue to play well and keep the game close, then Tebow, who is great as not turning the ball over, can win it at the end.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
I must admit - it is fun as hell to watch. The camaraderie among the fans is through the roof. After coming down from the "high" of the game is when my buddies and I start to chat over some beers and we start to wonder - can we really keep doing this?*Edited* to add that you are spot on about the Defense. The defense is the MVP in this run of ours. Most of us in Denver realize this. It's mostly people who don't follow the Broncos closely who are screaming "TEBOW!!" and ignoring the play of the D that puts him in a position to make plays at the end. He sitll had to make the plays, no doubt. But our Defense is playing well for 60 minutes - not just the last 5. I'm really enjoying the way they are playing (compared to what I thought they'd look like this year).
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EBF
Footballguy
What was Ryan Leaf's?
Hoss Style
Footballguy
I agree 100%. There are billions of stats out there and people find certain ones to support their argument, take them totally out of context and then act like it's proving some point.At first it used to bug me but now I just ignore it and move on. For every out of context stat that is used that we could shoot down - there are a hundred others waiting to be used.Yes, Tebow is comparable to Elway. Indeed...
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glumpy
breeze
Tebow's apparently not comparable to anyone. Has anyone ever had his unorthodox style--that a team would totally change their offense around him? Has any QB ever had his early career winning percentage? This is just fun football, imo, and that's why it's making all the headlines. I'm really with the camp that thinks teams will catch on to it but oooooh man it's a joyride while it's rolling!Yes, Tebow is comparable to Elway. Indeed...
SoCalBroncoFan
Footballguy
...and on the eighth day God created Tim Tebow. And he made him in his image.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Thing is, you can teach a quarterback to be more effective during a game, go through progressions and take what the defense gives you. That won't make you great, but it can make a bad QB functional (Alex Smith).
But you can't teach a quarterback to play their best when it means the most. Some guys actually play better when the chips are down, but most don't. If they can simply stay cool and calm and play at their normal level, that's a great player. But to elevate your game when everything is on the line? Can't teach that.
Tebow has the latter; that can't be denied. It's not hard to imagine he can learn the former to a decent degree. He already doesn't turn the ball over. Put talent around him and teach him to be more effective earlier in a game and you have a real NFL QB-- which is exactly what people said he'd never be.
But you can't teach a quarterback to play their best when it means the most. Some guys actually play better when the chips are down, but most don't. If they can simply stay cool and calm and play at their normal level, that's a great player. But to elevate your game when everything is on the line? Can't teach that.
Tebow has the latter; that can't be denied. It's not hard to imagine he can learn the former to a decent degree. He already doesn't turn the ball over. Put talent around him and teach him to be more effective earlier in a game and you have a real NFL QB-- which is exactly what people said he'd never be.
EBF
Footballguy
Eh. Tebow's NFL "success" looks pretty flukey. Bad numbers being masked by bad competition and good luck. I think it's likely that he'll be irrelevant within 2 years.
Teams will take away the few things he does well and force him to beat them with his arm. Barring massive improvement as a passer, he'll fail. You just can't consistently win games when you're completing 47% of your passes. I suspect we'll see him come back to reality as early as weeks 14-16 this season.
Vince Young had the same kind of performance when he first became a starter and we know how that turned out.
Teams will take away the few things he does well and force him to beat them with his arm. Barring massive improvement as a passer, he'll fail. You just can't consistently win games when you're completing 47% of your passes. I suspect we'll see him come back to reality as early as weeks 14-16 this season.
Vince Young had the same kind of performance when he first became a starter and we know how that turned out.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
He went 30-17 as a starter, flaked out a couple of times, and finally got benched and then cut for having a bad attitude in spite of the fact that he was having his best season statistically.
Excellent post. I wonder if any other qb makes Revis so irrelevant.
Did he retire?
Football evolves. It has done for over 100 years. The idea is to create mismatches, not get a high completion %. Most nfl defenses are built with pass rushers and coverage lbs, there is no fundamental issue with an offense which gains 300 yards. The ground game counts as well.
FUBAR
Footballguy
If Vince Young had the same character as Tebow, he'd probably have won a Super Bowl by now. All he does is win football games.I'm not seeing how you can call the Jets "bad competition".
Bill Walsh built the west coast offense around his QBs skillset because he had a weak arm and good accuracy. That seemed to work out okayTebow's apparently not comparable to anyone. Has anyone ever had his unorthodox style--that a team would totally change their offense around him?Yes, Tebow is comparable to Elway. Indeed...
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Was McDaniels right?
ivnabru
Footballguy
Here's the thing though when Tebow runs for 5 yards how is it any different than throwing a 5 yard pass?If you pretend his runs are pass completions (I read this argument on some article) his career numbers are some of the best in the NFL. Especially if you consider his rush tds pass tds and his fumbles INTs.He'd be 196/306 for 1978 yds. With 21 TDs and 7 INTs (3 of those INTs not recovered by the other team). That would be over 8 games. The guy would be on pace for 4000 yds + 40 TDs.See that's the problem with stats, you could focus on one insignifcant stat like completion percentage which is unfair to Tebow. You could look at them like I did too which is also unfair in a lot of ways. Or you could just figure the guy is a runner and puts up about 200 or so yards total most games. Is great in the redzone and seems to turn it on in the 4th.Either way he's fun to watch so I'm happy that short of injury he probably starts the rest of the season.
a_rackowski
Footballguy
For every time that Tebow says "I" in an interview, there are 30 times where he says "We". In that postgame they were trying to make it about him so hard, but he would have none of it. I am not Christian and cannot see how people do not like the kid.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Atheist here, and I love the kid for what he does and how he carries himself as a professional athlete. Couldn't care less about the noise and other stuff.
Topes
Footballguy
Let's not get carried away with ourselves here...It will be interesting to see if St. Louis is in the discussion for Tim Tebow trades.It's becoming clear that he's their best player. What does Denver do with their best players? Trades them.With Lloyd, we became certain that that's a Denver thing. Not a McDaniels thing.
DoubleG
Footballguy
If. it wasn't for that one big play...
Let me remind some people, who obviously have not caught Tebow fever yet, of one important aspect of Tebow's game:He doesn't turn the ball over. Maligned for being a horrible passer, his INT% is lower than Aaron Rodgers' this season (please note for the mathematically challenged: that's a % not a total so please don't argue that he doesn't throw that often so of course it's lower).
He also doesn't fumble that much (despite running the ball).
An "old school" formula for being successful in the NFL is:
1) Run the football
2) Control the clock
3) Don't turn the ball over
4) Play good defense
Tebow is doing the first 3 - and by doing #1, can open up running lanes (when all his RBs aren't hurt) and the passing game enough to be effective.
Also, by doing 1,2 & 3, 4 is made easier. One of the reasons Denver's defense is playing so well is because they occassionally get some rest (Although the 3 and outs don't help all that much) and the game is made "shorter" when you can do 1, 2 & 3.
The Broncos won the turnover battle - partly because Tebow didn't throw a pick or fumble.
FUBAR
Footballguy
If. it wasn't for that one big play...
He doesn't turn the ball over. Maligned for being a horrible passer, his INT% is lower than Aaron Rodgers' this season (please note for the mathematically challenged: that's a % not a total so please don't argue that he doesn't throw that often so of course it's lower).
He also doesn't fumble that much (despite running the ball).
An "old school" formula for being successful in the NFL is:
1) Run the football
2) Control the clock
3) Don't turn the ball over
4) Play good defense
Tebow is doing the first 3 - and by doing #1, can open up running lanes (when all his RBs aren't hurt) and the passing game enough to be effective.
Also, by doing 1,2 & 3, 4 is made easier. One of the reasons Denver's defense is playing so well is because they occassionally get some rest (Although the 3 and outs don't help all that much) and the game is made "shorter" when you can do 1, 2 & 3.
The Broncos won the turnover battle - partly because Tebow didn't throw a pick or fumble.
When Lance Ball is the 2nd best player on offense and you beat a good team, you're doing better than most QBs would.Broncos, 4-1 since Tebow took over...
Tebow for MVP!
griff321
Footballguy
Like you said the game has evolved over the years. The league has focused on encouraging long passes and high scores. It's obvious that pure passers are protected by refs a lot more than scramblers. Teams have evolved because ground and pound with a stout defense no longer wins championships. Who cares if that's the best defense that Orange Jesus has to face, because I'm more concerned how that team and Tebow respond to a high powered offense putting up 21 points in a quarter. The team believes and crazy stuff happens when a team buys in, so enjoy the ride. In my opinion the game ball without question goes to the defense. Even the Denver fans that hate Tebow have to be impressed with the turnaround the league doormat has made. I just think that teams don't play to win the division and I still don't believe they can beat a team that can put up points on a regular basis. As a person I thought he praised the right people and didn't seem too self absorbed. If anyone can stay humble enough to straighten out his game with the incredible celebrity status already it's him.
Possum
Footballguy
great posting - I'm agnostic and I completely agree. The kid is just a genuinely awesome person.
Oh Yes!
Footballguy
carburetor here, i love his drive. great motor on this kid.
McBokonon
Footballguy
Roadrunner here, and meep meep, meep meep.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Some thoughts:
- Elway after his round eyed 'can't believe I just hit roulette' look faded after the TT TD... he looked less than thrilled. You know they had plans for a prototype QB in the draft. They are riding a tiger.
- I have now heard two Denver defensive players, Bailey and Miller, express that Tebow is making the whole team including the D to play better.
- Tebow misses Lloyd, that guy did not miss anything. They would have been awesome together.
- Did anyone see Tebow drop the postgame on-field NFLN interview with the sportschick (name?) to go join the prayer circle at midfield?
- For people cutting Tebow for Palmer or Skelton.... I think Tebow has some very good games coming. Maybe 1-2, and it could come against you, it could rescue some team's season in your league. Right now he reminds me of a young receiver who is starting to put together a string of good solid, 5/60-90 games with the occasional TD; something big is coming. Tebow has not put up the numbers he did under McDaniel yet but surely Fox is learning he can open up the rest of the game more and more to get earlier in the game what he has seen in the final drives. He goes:
12 11/27/11 @SD
13 12/04/11 @MIN
14 12/11/11 CHI
15 12/18/11 NE
There is some potential there.
- Elway after his round eyed 'can't believe I just hit roulette' look faded after the TT TD... he looked less than thrilled. You know they had plans for a prototype QB in the draft. They are riding a tiger.
- I have now heard two Denver defensive players, Bailey and Miller, express that Tebow is making the whole team including the D to play better.
- Tebow misses Lloyd, that guy did not miss anything. They would have been awesome together.
- Did anyone see Tebow drop the postgame on-field NFLN interview with the sportschick (name?) to go join the prayer circle at midfield?
- For people cutting Tebow for Palmer or Skelton.... I think Tebow has some very good games coming. Maybe 1-2, and it could come against you, it could rescue some team's season in your league. Right now he reminds me of a young receiver who is starting to put together a string of good solid, 5/60-90 games with the occasional TD; something big is coming. Tebow has not put up the numbers he did under McDaniel yet but surely Fox is learning he can open up the rest of the game more and more to get earlier in the game what he has seen in the final drives. He goes:
12 11/27/11 @SD
13 12/04/11 @MIN
14 12/11/11 CHI
15 12/18/11 NE
There is some potential there.
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Buzzbait
Footballguy
No thanks...I'm holding. If I had other options I might feel different but Tebow is the only QB in the cupboard producing for my team.
I think option style football is actually the one type of scheme that personnel wise downplays matchups. You don't have to have all purpose backs, dual purpose oline or solid pass catchers. I think thats actually one reason we haven't seen this style of football in the NFL for so long... because it limits your upside. Once your offense molds to your option personnel you are committed to it and you become one dimensional. Once you can't run, or your defense fails, or you simply get behind big in a game for whatever reason it becomes very difficult to come back. Denver playing the option and winning is somewhat of a perfect storm... perhaps the greatest option QB of all time in Tebow, a young headstrong coach in McDaniels reaches for him in the first round and then fired, a defensive run first coach is hired and is given underrated defensive personnel, and a 1-4 start in Tebows 2nd year. Denver was somewhat forced into this position. Right now I think Elway is praying Tebow develops an all around game. If he doesn't Tebow's Denver career will rely on how well that defense is playing. BTW I'm a Tebow owner in about every league.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Denver and the Orange Crush reached the Super Bowl with Craig Morton. Craig Morton was a lot (a lot) worse than Tebow offensively. No I am not saying they will reach the SB but I'm just saying that combo can go a lot further than people will maybe at first think. The Jets with Sanchez reaching the AFCC is another example perhaps. Also Miami with Woodley (SB team).By the way the Denver DST is starting to look like a good add.
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steelerfan1
Footballguy
assuming denver were to part ways with tebow, where do you think he could end up?
who would take a chance building around him?
from a marketing standpoint alone it could be worth it, no?
who would take a chance building around him?
from a marketing standpoint alone it could be worth it, no?
If Jacksonville is serious about keeping the franchise there you would have to think they would at least consider it. I know its EARLY but I just don't see Gabbert selling tickets.
