Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Especially when you consider what he has done at the end of games when they have opened up the offense. The idea that he couldn't possibly expand that kind of production to the rest of the game with more experience seems somewhat irrational to me.
Everyone one of those teams has 1, 2, or even 3 great WRs. Tebow has Erik Decker. He has potential to be good, but he is not Megatron, AJ, Welker, Jennings, Mike Wallace,Maclin, DJax, and so on.
Yep. It's basically just a more extreme version of the formula Bill Parcells won 10 games and a Wildcard spot with Quincy Carter as his starting QB in 2003.Or how Harbaugh was running the 49ers this year. They were dead last in the NFL in pass attempts and 28th in passing yardage. I guess Alex Smith has magical leadership abilities.
Alex Smith is completing 62.4% of his passes for a 7.1 yard average. Tim Tebow is completing 45.5% of his passes for a 6.0 yard average.Tebow might become a good quarterback in this league but right now he's so bad he's making Alex Smith look like Peyton Manning.The only impressive thing about him is the low interception rate. But according to Chase Stuart that's "the most random of all QB statistics."
But Tebow is also rushing for 70 yards a game with an average of 5.8 ypc. Tebow's rushing eats clock time and keeps their defense off the field. Plus Tebow not turning the ball over often also helps the defense rarely giving the other team really great field position. Tebow may not play defense, but he certainly has contributed to their vast improvement on the defensive side of the ball.
Screens would make too much sense to run for the Broncos to actually do it.
Pretty unbelievable. How can you not dump off to your starting RB at least once or twice a game?
"A pair of former first-rounders embrace after the game; one with no Super Bowl rings, and the other with NO CHANCE to ever get a Super Bowl ring."
Rivers: How do you do it?Tebow: Do what?"A pair of former first-rounders embrace after the game; one with no Super Bowl rings, and the other with NO CHANCE to ever get a Super Bowl ring."
Rivers: Who are you?Tebow: I'm The Tebow.
Probably worth noting that McGahee was playing with a surgically repaired broken hand for a good chunk of that time, and missed all or most of two games. It's not like the RB targets have stopped, they just stopped to him.
Compare apples to oranges much?
Dallas: Romo has been starting for the same team for the last 6 years, AND has stud WRs and TE. And he's never won squat.
Rivers: I can't believe I lost to you. How were you able to do it.Tebow: It wasn't difficult. Do you want to see me walk on water?"A pair of former first-rounders embrace after the game; one with no Super Bowl rings, and the other with NO CHANCE to ever get a Super Bowl ring."
How many NFL QB's could be successful running the current broncos O, with as few turnovers as they have had?Now, it's a. Let's not get carried away.
1) Hang in there Phil, someday you might be almost as good as me.or
Now, it's a
The change in the offensive gameplan was because of Tebow. Do you think if Orton had never been benched Denver would be running this offense?
Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.Now, it's a
If anything they'd be 6-0 with Quinn at the helm.'proninja said:
I agree that Tebow can have a good career but I wonder if the majority of that career will be in an option offense. It's working now and it's fun to watch but so was the wildcat, which went out with a whimper.
Yeah, but the teams caught up partially by acquiring new personel to stop Vick. Much like the Packers drafted CBs for years after Moss came into the league.Unless the rest of the division finds the right guys in Free Agency it may take a year or two before drafted players are up to stopping the new option in Denver. It was Vick's 4th year when they went to the NFC Championship game.There's a good chance that by then Tebow isn't even a starter.
Paging AJ Smith. AJ Smith to the white courtesy phone.
People keep saying this, but if you were able to tailor the offense to suit Tebow in a matter of 3-4 weeks, I don't get how they couldn't switch back in the same amount of time (at most). I mean, they surely didn't burn the playbook they were using with Orton. So I don't get how if/when Tebow gets injured or defenses shut it down it'll throw the Broncos offense back into the stone ages for years.
I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.Now, it's a
My point was simply stating that though the Broncos are playing better defense, some of the decline in points they've allowed per game can be attributed to Tebow's ability to protect the ball. It's not just the game plan. Tebow has 1 interception in 143 attempts while Orton had 7 interceptions in 157 attempts. Orton's 6.3 yards per attempt is barely better than Tebow's 6.0 yards per attempt. Orton threw a pick 4.5% of the time vs Tebow's 0.7%. All of this will make a defense look better on paper.I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.Now, it's a
Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.
It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.'Hoss Style said:I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.Now, it's a
Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.
This is why it works with Tebow and wouldn't necessarily work with any QB. When your QB IS one of the RBs, it's more effective - you in effect have an extra player. When the Broncos go with an "empty backfield" - there is still a RB back there. When they go 1 RB - they really have two.
When did he say this? I've heard Mark Schlereth say this but have not seen or heard where Elway has said it. Do you have a link to this?
Great points. The wildcat would have worked, but the problem with it is that teams rarely throw out of it. I always said that if teams would run the wildcat and throw out of it more, it is a viable offense. With Tebow, you essentially have the wildcat and he can run or throw. He just needs to continue to improve in his passing abilities.
Basically Tebow gives you the advantage of having a good RB who happens to be a legit threat to throw the ball.
Earlier in the year, some people were suggesting putting Tebow and Orton in the game at the same time (i.e. having Tebow play RB and use HB options/passes occasionally) - but that actually nullfies the advantage. Why have a 2nd QB on the field, when you could have an extra WR or TE or OL?
IMHO, the real reason the Denver offense should be sustainable in the long run is that Tebow is not a QB that can run - he as an RB that can throw. The difference in semantics may seem silly, but the point is he gives the Broncos an advantage on offense that no other team has. If he can become even a slightly better passer, and OC was even more creative, the Broncos would become one of those offenses that keeps DCs up at night.
I never heard Elway say this either. I have heard that Elway, when asked if the Tebow was definately the QB of the future, responded by saying no, that hadn't been decided.
No argument here. Tebow makes it harder to stop because he can run as a QB. It would still be possible to gear the offense towards the run with a traditional QB, as we have been, against the teams we've been playing. But you'll get no disagreement from me with the fact that Tebow makes it more difficult to defend against. Maybe defenses will catch up to it next year - or maybe they won't.It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.'Hoss Style said:I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.Now, it's a
Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.
That's what makes this so much fun. The chess match is riveting. Modern defenses trying to gameplan for an offense out of the 1950s. That's why, as I stated earlier, I can't wait to see the game against New England in week 15. By the time the teams meet, Belichick will have over two months of film on Tebow. If he can't figure out the proper defensive scheme, nobody will.I think the formula is probably simple. Executing it is another matter entirely. You need three solid cover men who can shut down the two WRs and the TE one-on-one. The other eight defenders crowd the box and fill every gap. The Jets did that effectively for 55 minutes, then as you said, the safety who had contain made a terrible mistake and let Tebow get to the edge.
It would be awesome if Denver went 5-wide on their entire first drive.(With Brady Quinn at QB, of course...
)
Been saying that from the get go. With The Tebow they don't even have to be solid. When the chiefs failed, there were 2 guys chasing Decker because they screwed up. htere is never a reason to double cover any Tebow receiver, ever. There should have been the #1 corner on him and right with him. Let the other guy handle the run.
I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.
If the Broncos can keep it close enough to keep running the ball over and over they're going to move the ball easier against most teams later in the game.I'll be interested to see what Belichick schemes, but I'm not sure he'll be able to come up with a better plan than the Jets did. They brought in the big guys (I think they had 4 or 5 300 pound guys on the field). Plus their LB coach was from an option college. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the offense.
