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***Official Sweet Science Thread***


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16 minutes ago, GOB said:

I mean I don't know how you can complain about 115-113 Canelo.

Some of those early and mid rounds were razor close. 

Credit to Canelo for pressuring GGG. 

I want a 3rd round... With my vape. Brb

Yeah didn't see that type of texture to the fight, and GGG looked tired and def. took more punishment in that fight than any fight beforehand.

I love GGG, and I respect Canelo and enjoy watching him fight, but he did not win 7 rounds.

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2 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

The sad thing is i want a third fight but it was visible that ggg is slowing. I think prime ggg wins hands down and kos canelo.  But still props to him for coming forward and making it a great fight.

if I’m canelo, call out Floyd for one more. :shrug:

 

 

Money will be too busy dancing around Pacman

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3 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

The sad thing is i want a third fight but it was visible that ggg is slowing. I think prime ggg wins hands down and kos canelo.  But still props to him for coming forward and making it a great fight.

if I’m canelo, call out Floyd for one more. :shrug:

 

 

Part of me hopes GGG just calls it a day. 

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Just now, BustedKnuckles said:

Money will be too busy dancing around Pacman

Yeah Canelo's not/probably can't moving down, Mayweather isn't going to fight at 160. And he'd lose to Canelo at 160 at this point. It's gonna be Pac or the stupid Irish guy or Fat Maidana before he fights Canelo.

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7 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Yeah didn't see that type of texture to the fight, and GGG looked tired and def. took more punishment in that fight than any fight beforehand.

I love GGG, and I respect Canelo and enjoy watching him fight, but he did not win 7 rounds.

After 7 rds, i had it 5-2 canelo & unless youre lederman not sure how ggg had better than that 1st half.

Yes, he turned it on late but even then i still had it 7-5 canelo. No way ggg won that fight

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Media score cards for what its worth:

Harold Lederman (HBO Sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Brian Campbell (CBS sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Dan Rafael (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Stephen A. Smith (ESPN): Golovkin won

Arash Markazi (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Brett Okamoto (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Teddy Atlas - Golovkin won

Salvador Rodríguez (ESPN Mexico): 114-114 draw

Eduardo Lamazón (Televisa): 116-112 Golovkin

Gareth A Davies (The Telegraph): 116-112 Golovkin

Josh Peter (USA Today): 115-113 Golovkin

Sports Illustrated: 114-114 draw

Dylan Hernandez (LA Times): 115-113 Golovkin

Lance Pugmire (La Times): 114-114 draw

BoxingScene: 114-114 draw

Chris Mannix (Yahoo! Sports): 115-113 Golovkin

Kevin Iole (Yahoo! Sports): 114-114 draw

The Guardian: 116-112 Golovkin

Joe DePaolo (Washington Post): 115-113 Golovkin

Mike Coppinger (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw

Douglass Fischer (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw

Mike Baca II (Ring Magazine and Undisputed Champion Network): 115-113 Golovkin

Al Bernstein (Showtime Sports): Golovkin won

Sherdog.com: 116-112 Golovkin

Jai Bednall (news.com.au): 115-113 Golovkin

Brian Mazique (Forbes): 114-114 draw

Adam Abramowitz (Ring Magazine and SN Boxing): 115-113 Golovkin

Tom Craze (Bad Left Hook): 116-112 Golovkin

Fraser Coffeen (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin

Anton Tabuena (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin

The Associated Press: 114-114 draw

Adam Caparell (Complex Sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Bill Simmons (HBO and The Ringer): 114-114 draw

Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News): 116-112 Golovkin

Andreas Hale (Sporting News): Golovkin won

Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly): Canelo won

Michael Montero (MonteroOnBoxing): 115-113 Golovkin

Matt Christie (Boxing News): 115-114 Golovkin

George Willis (New York Post): 114-114 draw

Gary Melo (SportsNet Canada): Golovkin won

Below The Belt Podcast: 115-113 Golovkin

World Boxing News: 115-113 Golovkin

Jeff Powell (Daily Mail): 116-113 Golovkin

Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub TV): 114-114 draw

Michelle Rosado (Raging Babe): 115-113 Canelo

Michelle Joy Phelps (Behind the Gloves): 115-113 Golovkin

Lennox Lewis: Golovkin won by 2 rounds

Fight Nights: 115-113 Golovkin

Michael Woods (NYFights.com): two point edge for Golovkin

Dieter Kurtenbach (San Jose Mercury News and the East Bay Times): Golovkin won by 3 rounds

Rafael G (the Fight City): 116-112 Golovkin

34 for GGG, 2 for Canelo, 15 for Draw

average fan scorecard (1773 fans): 116-113 Golovkin

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11 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

@Ilov80s What you drinking?  

Yesterday was a long day. My wife was standing up in a wedding and it was far enough away where we had to drive and get a hotel so I was either driving or helping out (the wedding was really poorly planned) or at the wedding for almost all day. I was able to find a couple people to go the bar after to watch the Ohio Stars-TCU game but wasn’t able to find anywhere to see the fight. Plan was to try and watch in the hotel on my phone but I was too exhausted and just fell asep. 

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At some point I will watch this fight. I was and am still upset about the first match. I figured the second fight results would be much the same. From reading a bit this morning I see I was correct. Boxing could be such an awesome sport if it was judged properly/fairly.

I grew up with boxing and it makes me sad that I have not been able to enjoy it for several years. I wish I had the willpower to watch these fights and just turn it off when the final bell was rung. I am thinking I could then go back to watching but I dont have that will power and the judging ruins the whole event for me.

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5 minutes ago, prosopis said:

At some point I will watch this fight. I was and am still upset about the first match. I figured the second fight results would be much the same. From reading a bit this morning I see I was correct. Boxing could be such an awesome sport if it was judged properly/fairly.

I grew up with boxing and it makes me sad that I have not been able to enjoy it for several years. I wish I had the willpower to watch these fights and just turn it off when the final bell was rung. I am thinking I could then go back to watching but I dont have that will power and the judging ruins the whole event for me.

I didn't see it either but I saw plenty of my Twitter TL that thought it was very close and the decision was not a robbery. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 4:15 AM, PinkydaPimp said:

Atlas made a good point about this fight in that GGG lost the last fight because judges didnt favor the aggressor, so he switched and jabbed him and out landed Canelo, and still couldn't get the call. 

I don't see how he wasn't considered the aggressor in the first fight, and I don't see how he did anything different, at all.  I was pulling for GGG both times and I thought he did a lot more in the first match. 

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I think the argument for Canelo goes like this if you gave him enough early rounds to win the fight...

Yes, GGG landed a lot more jabs and was busier.  But the point of a jab is to control the other guy and open him up for something bigger.  GGG's jabs did neither as he continued to eat hefty body shots and Canelo never stopped moving forward, while GGG moved backwards.  If you broke the tie in the early muddled rounds by giving them to the guy controlling the action, you gave them to Alvarez.

Even in the later rounds, when Canelo was absolutely rocked three or four times, he counted immediately with big shots of his own and never moved backwards.  Which was kind of incredible to watch.

I had it 115-113 GGG, but I did that by thinking about the fight overall at the end of each round to break the "ties".  And if you'd asked me to handicap the fight after Round 12 but before the judge's cards had been revealed I'd have said something like 60% GGG (115-113), 20% draw, 20% Canelo (115-113).  Don't get how anyone can say the decision was a "boxing" thing.  (Except maybe that the judges rewarded different things in the two fights.)

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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1 hour ago, cockroach said:

I don't see how he wasn't considered the aggressor in the first fight, and I don't see how he did anything different, at all.  I was pulling for GGG both times and I thought he did a lot more in the first match. 

See i saw a very different fight from GGG especially defensively.  This quote sums it up:
 

Quote

 

Also, this fight should settle a long running argument about GGG's defense. Canelo was pressuring all night long against GGG, but GGG did not get through tonight just tanking though all these punches with his chin.

Despite having an iron chin, and backing up in straight lines, GGG's defense pivots on distance management and sharp punch-vision. He deflected a ton of incoming punches with parries, small shifts in his guard, and small steps out of range. He isn't just running back, he's never pushed into a corner or ropes, because he is tightly managing that distance with defense that allows him to stay in the pocket without having to just endure it all on his chin. If anything it makes GGG even more impressive, because even if you're someone with enough punching power to crack that iron chin, you will find that you need to box your way in through an educated defense to land it.

BOTH fighters have demonstrated the ability to box going forward or backward against elite p4p competition, and at a level of proficiency to make for an extremely close result That's damn impressive.

 

 

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6 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

See i saw a very different fight from GGG especially defensively.  This quote sums it up:
 

 

Ok, but when was he ever against the ropes in that first fight?  It was Canello backing up against the ropes using the Philly shell.

I'm rewatching the first fight right now in 2x speed and halfway through GGG hasn't been up against the ropes once.  While Canllo is living there, at one point in the 3rd going around the ring 1.5 times along the ropes corner to corner. 

 

Yea, finished the first fight and GGG had his back up against the rope a total of 0 times.  Canello lived on the ropes and was running like a female dog.  GGG was constantly pressing forward.  I don't see how he could have been more the aggressor.  I also don't see how Canello did enough to make it a draw.  That was disappointing.

But the 2nd fight was Canello's.  I recall at one point, perhaps between the 4th and 5th round, Abel Sanchez told GGG straight up that he was losing.  Also, if you judge the fight on "Pride Rules" where you just look at the whole fight and not rnd by rnd points, Canello won.  But hey, we all won because we got 2 awesome fights and now maybe a 3rd.  I just don't see how GGG changed his approach at all, where it's clear Canello did, and for the better.

Edited by cockroach
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8 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

I think the argument for Canelo goes like this if you gave him enough early rounds to win the fight...

Yes, GGG landed a lot more jabs and was busier.  But the point of a jab is to control the other guy and open him up for something bigger.  GGG's jabs did neither as he continued to eat hefty body shots and Canelo never stopped moving forward, while GGG moved backwards.  If you broke the tie in the early muddled rounds by giving them to the guy controlling the action, you gave them to Alvarez.

Even in the later rounds, when Canelo was absolutely rocked three or four times, he counted immediately with big shots of his own and never moved backwards.  Which was kind of incredible to watch.

I had it 115-113 GGG, but I did that by thinking about the fight overall at the end of each round to break the "ties".  And if you'd asked me to handicap the fight after Round 12 but before the judge's cards had been revealed I'd have said something like 60% GGG (115-113), 20% draw, 20% Canelo (115-113).  Don't get how anyone can say the decision was a "boxing" thing.  (Except maybe that the judges rewarded different things in the two fights.)

But that's not how you're supposed to judge a fight. Each round is its own separate entity, so you're starting from 0 at the beginning of each new round. Previous rounds are not supposed to have any  bearing.

A jab also should be scored on its own merit. Not as much as a cross (generally) or a hook, but G lands some hard-### jabs. I think the official judging is considered a boxing thing because, as shown above, only 2 out of 51 (mostly) impartial sources, most of whom were at ringside, could find 7 rounds for Canelo. I had it 115-113 GGG, I'm totally fine if someone had it 114-114 or 116-112, but 115-113 Canelo's really tough to get to.

I think the judges shaded it. Or maybe when they all had Canelo up 1 going into the 12th, they didn't want to create another draw (unfortunate for my bank acct) and two of them gave it to Canelo, even though I thought GGG clearly won the 12th. It's not absolute blind robbery the way Byrd's card was, hell it's not even the worst set of cards from this month (Nietes/Palicte), but I think Canelo got some favorable treatment.

But that's the way #### is. He was the home fighter.

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46 minutes ago, cockroach said:

Ok, but when was he ever against the ropes in that first fight?  It was Canello backing up against the ropes using the Philly shell.

I'm rewatching the first fight right now in 2x speed and halfway through GGG hasn't been up against the ropes once.  While Canllo is living there, at one point in the 3rd going around the ring 1.5 times along the ropes corner to corner. 

 

Yea, finished the first fight and GGG had his back up against the rope a total of 0 times.  Canello lived on the ropes and was running like a female dog.  GGG was constantly pressing forward.  I don't see how he could have been more the aggressor.  I also don't see how Canello did enough to make it a draw.  That was disappointing.

But the 2nd fight was Canello's.  I recall at one point, perhaps between the 4th and 5th round, Abel Sanchez told GGG straight up that he was losing.  Also, if you judge the fight on "Pride Rules" where you just look at the whole fight and not rnd by rnd points, Canello won.  But hey, we all won because we got 2 awesome fights and now maybe a 3rd.  I just don't see how GGG changed his approach at all, where it's clear Canello did, and for the better.

Not sure where i said Canelo wasnt on the ropes first fight i think we agree on that.  Of course he was and of course GGG was the aggressor last time around.  My point was that GGG fought a much different fight this time around.  Which IMO he did.  As did Canelo, which i respect much more now for doing so.  IMO GGG cant win though.  He fights as the aggressor, the judges dont like that.  Next fight, he boxes him and lets Canelo be the aggressor, Judges favor the aggressor.  :shrug: 

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