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"100 Greatest Players" on NFLN - (List is in original post) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
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dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, I didn't catch any insults either.What exactly did he say? I must have been out of the room for a second.Yeah, I caught that. Brown's never going to change.Did anybody think Brown's obvious dig at Franco Harris was below the belt? Sheesh his detest of Harris is running near 30 years. It almost reminds me of Frazier and Ali....
Yenrub
Footballguy
He was talking about why he liked Walter Payton so much and one of the reasons was he didn't run out of bounds at the end of a run to avoid contact, he liked how Payton initiated the contact and he (Brown) didn't like guys who stepped out to avoid the contact.Yeah, I didn't catch any insults either.What exactly did he say? I must have been out of the room for a second.Yeah, I caught that. Brown's never going to change.Did anybody think Brown's obvious dig at Franco Harris was below the belt? Sheesh his detest of Harris is running near 30 years. It almost reminds me of Frazier and Ali....
dgreen
Footballguy
I remember that comment. And how is that an "obvious dig at Franco Harris"? He didn't mention his name did he? Is this some long-standing issue between the two of them I've never heard of?He was talking about why he liked Walter Payton so much and one of the reasons was he didn't run out of bounds at the end of a run to avoid contact, he liked how Payton initiated the contact and he (Brown) didn't like guys who stepped out to avoid the contact.Yeah, I didn't catch any insults either.What exactly did he say? I must have been out of the room for a second.Yeah, I caught that. Brown's never going to change.Did anybody think Brown's obvious dig at Franco Harris was below the belt? Sheesh his detest of Harris is running near 30 years. It almost reminds me of Frazier and Ali....
While Seau was a great player and probably makes the HOF eventually which of th LB's on the list would you be taking off to add Seau.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
Yes, at one time it appeared that Harris would be the one breaking Brown's rushing record. Brown disliked Harris because he ran out of bounds to avoid taking a big hits. Brown didn't consider Harris worthy of the record due to this. Brown even challenged Harris to any physical contest Harris wanted because he thought Harris was soft (and that he was still great). Brown like Payton's running style much more than Harris' hence the digs during the presentation.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Pretty much. One good recount is from Sean Lahman (go to the bottom of page 129): http://books.google.com/books?id=k84pD-r7L...nco&f=false
scoobygang
Footballguy
My brother and I still drop "I Challenge You" jokes. From a decade that gave us the Superstars, the Battle of the Network Stars, and Richard Hatch dominating a flag football game, this was the cheesiest televised quasi-athletic contest of them all. God, I loved the 70s.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
I would switch Brown and Sanders and completely remove Allen and Dorsett. Everything inbetween you could just draw out of a hat and I couldn't argue too much.
Native
Footballguy
ANyone notice S Ken Houston wasnt included on the list? He was the starting SS when the NFL came out with its 75th Anniversary all time team and nary a mention he receives.
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=100
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=100
Native
Footballguy
By my count only 35% of the players on the list are defenders 
Guys I would remove from the list:
1) Kurt Warner - pockets of tremendous success coupled with many years of mediocrity
2) Marcus Allen - Only a few great seasons and many more above average - but not superb years. Horribly overrated.
3) Darrell Green - Longevity forced his name into the discussion - a great player but hardly the focal point of the Skins Defense.
4) Joe Namath - This has been discussed and seems like a no-brainer. I guess they needed at least one Jet on the team
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Terry Bradshaw - Top 50? Way too much love for a guy that threw more INT's than TD's and was one of nine (?) Steelers from the 70's in the HOF.
2) Tom Brady - Put him in the Bart Starr/Bradshaw category if you will, not the Favre/Marino category please. Not even close. Sorry Pats fans.
3) John Elway - Lord do we overrate our QB's or what? 23rd best player ever? Elway is horribly overrated by everyone but thats a whole other thread
4) Ladanian Tomlinson - belongs lower than Faulk IMO
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas - Cant get much higher than five right? Well, he set all kinds of statistical records AND won championships. He was a combination of Marino and Montana - Id stick him ahead of Montana
2) Marion Motley - another old timer whose highlights are legendary and even inspiring. Should have been way higher. Has been called the best player of all time by Paul Zimmerman
3) Randy Moss - Hate the guy but recognize his greatness - one of the top 2-3 players at his position and 25-30 best ever in my estimate
4) Ed Reed - I think when its all said and done he will be remembered as one of the best ever defensive backs. Hes the best Ive ever seen
Guys Id add to the list:
1) Ken Houston: The prototype SS for 15 years. All time 75th Anniversary Team in addition to 10 pro bowls. Has to be some kind of mistake
2) Dwight Stephenson - Considered by many to be the best ever center, he was quick as a cat and powerful to boot.
3) Larry Little - one of the strongest and toughest Guards ever - not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (Rosevelt Brown?) in his place
4) Derrick Thomas - After LT, he was my favorite of the modern day pass rushers. I thought history would view him more favorably
Others: S Larry Wilson, WR Steve Largent, OT Roosevelt Brown, DT Buck Buchanon, DT Leo Nominelli, LB Andre Tippett, LB Rickey Jackson
Guys I would remove from the list:
1) Kurt Warner - pockets of tremendous success coupled with many years of mediocrity
2) Marcus Allen - Only a few great seasons and many more above average - but not superb years. Horribly overrated.
3) Darrell Green - Longevity forced his name into the discussion - a great player but hardly the focal point of the Skins Defense.
4) Joe Namath - This has been discussed and seems like a no-brainer. I guess they needed at least one Jet on the team
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Terry Bradshaw - Top 50? Way too much love for a guy that threw more INT's than TD's and was one of nine (?) Steelers from the 70's in the HOF.
2) Tom Brady - Put him in the Bart Starr/Bradshaw category if you will, not the Favre/Marino category please. Not even close. Sorry Pats fans.
3) John Elway - Lord do we overrate our QB's or what? 23rd best player ever? Elway is horribly overrated by everyone but thats a whole other thread
4) Ladanian Tomlinson - belongs lower than Faulk IMO
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas - Cant get much higher than five right? Well, he set all kinds of statistical records AND won championships. He was a combination of Marino and Montana - Id stick him ahead of Montana
2) Marion Motley - another old timer whose highlights are legendary and even inspiring. Should have been way higher. Has been called the best player of all time by Paul Zimmerman
3) Randy Moss - Hate the guy but recognize his greatness - one of the top 2-3 players at his position and 25-30 best ever in my estimate
4) Ed Reed - I think when its all said and done he will be remembered as one of the best ever defensive backs. Hes the best Ive ever seen
Guys Id add to the list:
1) Ken Houston: The prototype SS for 15 years. All time 75th Anniversary Team in addition to 10 pro bowls. Has to be some kind of mistake
2) Dwight Stephenson - Considered by many to be the best ever center, he was quick as a cat and powerful to boot.
3) Larry Little - one of the strongest and toughest Guards ever - not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (Rosevelt Brown?) in his place
4) Derrick Thomas - After LT, he was my favorite of the modern day pass rushers. I thought history would view him more favorably
Others: S Larry Wilson, WR Steve Largent, OT Roosevelt Brown, DT Buck Buchanon, DT Leo Nominelli, LB Andre Tippett, LB Rickey Jackson
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Guys I would remove from the list:1) Warner made the list solely on the face that he led TWO horrendous franchises to the SB (1-2 in 3 games)By my count only 35% of the players on the list are defenders
Guys I would remove from the list:
1) Kurt Warner - pockets of tremendous success coupled with many years of mediocrity
2) Marcus Allen - Only a few great seasons and many more above average - but not superb years. Horribly overrated.
3) Darrell Green - Longevity forced his name into the discussion - a great player but hardly the focal point of the Skins Defense.
4) Joe Namath - This has been discussed and seems like a no-brainer. I guess they needed at least one Jet on the team
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Terry Bradshaw - Top 50? Way too much love for a guy that threw more INT's than TD's and was one of nine (?) Steelers from the 70's in the HOF.
2) Tom Brady - Put him in the Bart Starr/Bradshaw category if you will, not the Favre/Marino category please. Not even close. Sorry Pats fans.
3) John Elway - Lord do we overrate our QB's or what? 23rd best player ever? Elway is horribly overrated by everyone but thats a whole other thread
4) Ladanian Tomlinson - belongs lower than Faulk IMO
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas - Cant get much higher than five right? Well, he set all kinds of statistical records AND won championships. He was a combination of Marino and Montana - Id stick him ahead of Montana
2) Marion Motley - another old timer whose highlights are legendary and even inspiring. Should have been way higher. Has been called the best player of all time by Paul Zimmerman
3) Randy Moss - Hate the guy but recognize his greatness - one of the top 2-3 players at his position and 25-30 best ever in my estimate
4) Ed Reed - I think when its all said and done he will be remembered as one of the best ever defensive backs. Hes the best Ive ever seen
Guys Id add to the list:
1) Ken Houston: The prototype SS for 15 years. All time 75th Anniversary Team in addition to 10 pro bowls. Has to be some kind of mistake
2) Dwight Stephenson - Considered by many to be the best ever center, he was quick as a cat and powerful to boot.
3) Larry Little - one of the strongest and toughest Guards ever - not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (Rosevelt Brown?) in his place
4) Derrick Thomas - After LT, he was my favorite of the modern day pass rushers. I thought history would view him more favorably
Others: S Larry Wilson, WR Steve Largent, OT Roosevelt Brown, DT Buck Buchanon, DT Leo Nominelli, LB Andre Tippett, LB Rickey Jackson
2) Marcus Allen - Can't argue with your views on this one as he has very pedestrian numbers considering how long he stuck around.
3) Darrell Green (54 Int 6 TD's) I agree he didn't really deserve to make the list over guys like Willie Wood/Renfro/Larry Wilson/Ken Houston/Paul Krause/Emmitt Thomas
4) Joe Namath - Considering that there's no Len Dawson/Dan Fouts/Several Other More Deserving HOF QB's I'd have to agree Namath was lucky to be on the list (IMHO He made it only because he won SB III and sent a message that the AFL was just as talented as the NFL)
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Bradshaw earned his ranking with the 4 SB rings his team won (And FYI He Threw 212 TD's and 210 Picks (Yes I'm nitpicking) but your point is still valid as it's about 1 INT for every TD)
2) I Agree Brady is only ranked so high because of the 3 in 4 year SB Run
3) IMHO Elway EARNED his spot (But switch him with Marino) By leading a team with NO Ground Game to 3 SB's in 4 years (86,87,89).Yes he lost all three but just getting there earned him that high a rating
4) L.T.2 Has more TD's than Faulk so he should be higher (And L.T.2 has the potential to pass Faulk in Yds if he can play a few more years)
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas -Only 3 titles as compared to 4 for Montana.Yes he set all kinds of passing records (Several of which were broken by Tarkenton within a few seasons of Johnny U retiring).Now Tarkenton is a QB that I think deserved to be higher on the list (But he's not only because he lost 3 SB's)
2) Marion Motley is a tough call IMHO
3) Randy Moss - It's hard for me to argue with him being ranked behind Berry And Alworth (And he's lucky IMHO to even have made the list when guys like Maynard/Monk/Largent/Lofton/Andre Reed/Biletnikoff Didn't)
4) Ed Reed - Another tough call when you consider that guys like W.Wood/L.Wilson/K.Houston aren't on the list.
Guys I'd add to the list:
1) Ken Houston - No Argument here when you consider he was a Pro-Bowler every year except as a Rookie and his last year (But most of the DB's on the list were CB's as Safties have always had a bad rep)
2) Dwight Stephenson - Jim Langer also comes to mind here
3) Not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (The guys in the trenches are like Rodney Dangerfield they get no respect)
4) Derrick Thomas - Considering he was every bit as good a pass rusher as L.T. I'm also a little surprised that he wasn't on the list (But given the fact that his teams never won a SB I guess that it's not that surprising as It's obvious that Rings were a pivotal deciding factor in the rankings)
Native
Footballguy
Great response! Of the names you mention, Id definitely add Renfro and Wood to the list. Both doubled as special teams aces. Krause and Wilson are also auspiciously absent and left the game as arguably the top guys at their respective positions. But then youd have a case where too many safeties make it!Guys I would remove from the list:1) Warner made the list solely on the face that he led TWO horrendous franchises to the SB (1-2 in 3 games)By my count only 35% of the players on the list are defenders
Guys I would remove from the list:
1) Kurt Warner - pockets of tremendous success coupled with many years of mediocrity
2) Marcus Allen - Only a few great seasons and many more above average - but not superb years. Horribly overrated.
3) Darrell Green - Longevity forced his name into the discussion - a great player but hardly the focal point of the Skins Defense.
4) Joe Namath - This has been discussed and seems like a no-brainer. I guess they needed at least one Jet on the team
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Terry Bradshaw - Top 50? Way too much love for a guy that threw more INT's than TD's and was one of nine (?) Steelers from the 70's in the HOF.
2) Tom Brady - Put him in the Bart Starr/Bradshaw category if you will, not the Favre/Marino category please. Not even close. Sorry Pats fans.
3) John Elway - Lord do we overrate our QB's or what? 23rd best player ever? Elway is horribly overrated by everyone but thats a whole other thread
4) Ladanian Tomlinson - belongs lower than Faulk IMO
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas - Cant get much higher than five right? Well, he set all kinds of statistical records AND won championships. He was a combination of Marino and Montana - Id stick him ahead of Montana
2) Marion Motley - another old timer whose highlights are legendary and even inspiring. Should have been way higher. Has been called the best player of all time by Paul Zimmerman
3) Randy Moss - Hate the guy but recognize his greatness - one of the top 2-3 players at his position and 25-30 best ever in my estimate
4) Ed Reed - I think when its all said and done he will be remembered as one of the best ever defensive backs. Hes the best Ive ever seen
Guys Id add to the list:
1) Ken Houston: The prototype SS for 15 years. All time 75th Anniversary Team in addition to 10 pro bowls. Has to be some kind of mistake
2) Dwight Stephenson - Considered by many to be the best ever center, he was quick as a cat and powerful to boot.
3) Larry Little - one of the strongest and toughest Guards ever - not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (Rosevelt Brown?) in his place
4) Derrick Thomas - After LT, he was my favorite of the modern day pass rushers. I thought history would view him more favorably
Others: S Larry Wilson, WR Steve Largent, OT Roosevelt Brown, DT Buck Buchanon, DT Leo Nominelli, LB Andre Tippett, LB Rickey Jackson
2) Marcus Allen - Can't argue with your views on this one as he has very pedestrian numbers considering how long he stuck around.
3) Darrell Green (54 Int 6 TD's) I agree he didn't really deserve to make the list over guys like Willie Wood/Renfro/Larry Wilson/Ken Houston/Paul Krause/Emmitt Thomas
4) Joe Namath - Considering that there's no Len Dawson/Dan Fouts/Several Other More Deserving HOF QB's I'd have to agree Namath was lucky to be on the list (IMHO He made it only because he won SB III and sent a message that the AFL was just as talented as the NFL)
Guys I would put way Lower:
1) Bradshaw earned his ranking with the 4 SB rings his team won (And FYI He Threw 212 TD's and 210 Picks (Yes I'm nitpicking) but your point is still valid as it's about 1 INT for every TD)
2) I Agree Brady is only ranked so high because of the 3 in 4 year SB Run
3) IMHO Elway EARNED his spot (But switch him with Marino) By leading a team with NO Ground Game to 3 SB's in 4 years (86,87,89).Yes he lost all three but just getting there earned him that high a rating
4) L.T.2 Has more TD's than Faulk so he should be higher (And L.T.2 has the potential to pass Faulk in Yds if he can play a few more years)
Guys I would put Higher:
1) Johnny Unitas -Only 3 titles as compared to 4 for Montana.Yes he set all kinds of passing records (Several of which were broken by Tarkenton within a few seasons of Johnny U retiring).Now Tarkenton is a QB that I think deserved to be higher on the list (But he's not only because he lost 3 SB's)
2) Marion Motley is a tough call IMHO
3) Randy Moss - It's hard for me to argue with him being ranked behind Berry And Alworth (And he's lucky IMHO to even have made the list when guys like Maynard/Monk/Largent/Lofton/Andre Reed/Biletnikoff Didn't)
4) Ed Reed - Another tough call when you consider that guys like W.Wood/L.Wilson/K.Houston aren't on the list.
Guys I'd add to the list:
1) Ken Houston - No Argument here when you consider he was a Pro-Bowler every year except as a Rookie and his last year (But most of the DB's on the list were CB's as Safties have always had a bad rep)
2) Dwight Stephenson - Jim Langer also comes to mind here
3) Not enough interior linemen on the list. Feel free to add any number of other OL (The guys in the trenches are like Rodney Dangerfield they get no respect)
4) Derrick Thomas - Considering he was every bit as good a pass rusher as L.T. I'm also a little surprised that he wasn't on the list (But given the fact that his teams never won a SB I guess that it's not that surprising as It's obvious that Rings were a pivotal deciding factor in the rankings)
Instinctive
Footballguy
I don't understand why Terrell Owens is left off the list.
2nd all time in receiving yards, and 4th all time in TDs scored amongst all players
Unless I missed him on there...
2nd all time in receiving yards, and 4th all time in TDs scored amongst all players
Unless I missed him on there...
Nope you didn't miss him T.O. wasn't on the list (Only 8 WR made the cut)
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
It appears that the bias against putting WRs in the HOF is here as well. I do find this a little strange since I think WRs can have much more of an impact on the game than RBs.
The event was held in 1985. I still have it on VHS somewhere.http://articles.latimes.com/1985-01-19/spo...1_franco-harris
And yes, I also took Brown's comments as a dig toward Franco.
I remember watching Ahmad Rashad do a top 5 WR list circa 1986 and Largent was #4. Pretty sure I've got that on VHS somewhere too...The list went:In 1986...I clarified later I am referring to the pre-strike years (1976-81); he was not well known by any stretch, nor was he acknowledged by insiders/sharks as being the best WR in the game.Dude I was like 6 and living in Pittsburgh and knew that Steve Largent was one of the best in the game. This is just silly.
The majority of NFL fans didn't even know he was. Dead serious. They were West Coast pre-ESPN dominance never on MNF and rarely good. Nobody played FF back then so nobody scoured stats like they were Bill James.
Every year the Honolulu would roll around and we'd be like, "Oh yeah, that cat in Seattle...he's good, right?"
Guess its a perception thing, and I am underrating him. But please, I promise you, nobody outside of the pacific northwest thought he was the best contemporaneously.
Memory is a funny thing...
5. Stanley Morgan
4. Steve Largent
3. Mark Clayton
1b. Jerry Rice
1a. Al Toon
Csonka4life
Footballguy
This Rashad list had to be for that season Clayton and Toon being better than Largent is a bit of joke.... 
Yes, it was just for the current players.This Rashad list had to be for that season Clayton and Toon being better than Largent is a bit of joke....
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
This is why active players probably should be excluded from lists like this. Just a couple of months after all the "experts" voted on this, it looks silly for Manning to be 13 spots ahead of Brady. At least to me.
(And I had no problem with either ranking at the time.)
spider321
Footballguy
I agree. Manning should be much more than 13 spots ahead of Brady. Marino should've been about 13 spots ahead of Brady tho.This is why active players probably should be excluded from lists like this. Just a couple of months after all the "experts" voted on this, it looks silly for Manning to be 13 spots ahead of Brady. At least to me.
(And I had no problem with either ranking at the time.)
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Totally agree but in the end they're all just opinions anyway. Personally I think they should be right next to each other.Somewhere in here I mentioned that I was happy to see Troy Aikman and Steve Young right next to each other. That's about where I thought they should be as they battled each other during their careers.This is why active players probably should be excluded from lists like this. Just a couple of months after all the "experts" voted on this, it looks silly for Manning to be 13 spots ahead of Brady. At least to me.
(And I had no problem with either ranking at the time.)
I kind of feel the same way about these two. Both are great, I'd rank them right next to each other.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
I would like to have seen Bill George on the list. He made 8 pro bowls and was an 8 time 1st team all pro selection.
All of his contemporaries made the list: Sam Huff (5 pro bowls/2 1st team all pros), Ray Nitschke (1 pro bowl/2 1st team all pros), and Joe Schmidt (10 pro bowls/8 1st team all pros).
All of his contemporaries made the list: Sam Huff (5 pro bowls/2 1st team all pros), Ray Nitschke (1 pro bowl/2 1st team all pros), and Joe Schmidt (10 pro bowls/8 1st team all pros).
