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Mike Wallace (1 Viewer)

Romofan

Footballguy
At first I was going to post this in the Assistant Coach forum because in a very shallow league I'm thinking of dropping Santana Moss for Wallace but I wanted to create some more in-depth discussion around Mike Wallace and why I think he'll outperform his current top 200 rest of the way ranking. (And yeah yeah I'm in a shallow league this year for the first time in about 10 years but you could easily just replace "drop" and "pick up" with "trade for".)

There are a number of reasons why there should be supreme optimism around Mike Wallace's chances to produce as a top 10-15 the rest of the year. Obviously first and foremost is the return of Big Ben. He is twice to three time the QB that Batch/Dixon is so obviously we should expect more targets and more receptions and TD's - that's a given. Ben has a cannon of an arm and has been practicing for 2 weeks and looks in mid season form.

Secondly we haven't yet seen what Wallace can do WITH Big Ben WITHOUT Santonio Holmes....we should probably project somewhere inbetween his and Holmes ydg stats for last year for a guesstimate...which would put him at 1000 yds rec (and 1200+ upside if he puts up Homes stats - obviously this is assuming a full 16 game schedule with Big Ben - I am talking stats per game here) ...also if you take half of Holmes TD's last year that adds 2 to his 6 giving him 8TD's. Not bad. 1000/8td's That would put him around the top 15.

Other reasons to project him even higher than that. He is second in the league with a 23.4 ypc avg - I think the general perception in preseason was that he would run a lot of shorter routes with Dixon/Batch - well he is still going long. Wallace is FASTER than Holmes and combine that with a QB that can throw the ball 60 yds on the run and you can easily get excited.

Defenses can't really decide to gameplan Mike Wallace like other WR1's with no complimentary receiver. Hines Ward's presence and a solid run game prevent that. Also a huge difference this year seems to be the improved O-Line play in pass protection. If Big Ben gets a little more time than last year - watch out - also Ben can roll out and throw deep on the run - something Batch and Dixon couldn't do as well.

A look even deeper in the game writeups shows that Wallace had a TD called back on a holding penalty in Game 2 and a long td where the ball was in his hands in the endzone but got knocked out on his way to the ground in game 4. I'm just pointing out that looking beyond the stats he could easily have 4 TD's in 4 games and a lot more ydg and we might be generally ranking him higher than he is now and looking at him with even more upside than we are now.

Much like everyone hyping up another 2nd year receiver...Hakeem Hicks in the preseason (Kudos to the FBG staff and Shark Pool btw!) and projecting his numbers into the top 15 I believe Wallace deserves a serious look as someone who could really break out due to the expanded role without Holmes, QB1 with a cannon arm, and a great surrounding cast of characters.

 
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Way to go out on a limb
Well the FBG ranking isn't going out on a limb.....I don't see him in many top 10 WR lists for the rest of the way..... so I am saying to expect Brandon Loyd type numbers the rest of the year- I don't see why he can't and yet I see people down on him and ranking him outside of the top WR25 for the rest of the year.Consider this a reminder rather than a "stick my neck out prediction" if you want......
 
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That's pretty bold, considering the Steelers can run the ball this year. I wonder how much they are going to pass and how many targets Wallace will have, with Ward still around. I also wonder how long it'll take for Ben R. to shake the rust off, because it's got to take time, right? I'm going to be watching this first game very closely but I'm not ready to start Wallace yet. The Browns defense is not as bad as everybody thinks plus I think they may run alot.

 
I don't see enough targets coming Wallace's way to support top 10 production. The guy is waaaay down the list @ <5 per game. That stands to improve some with Roth, but not enough IMO.

 
I don't see enough targets coming Wallace's way to support top 10 production. The guy is waaaay down the list @ <5 per game. That stands to improve some with Roth, but not enough IMO.
I tend to agree with this........and I am high on Wallace going forward. In PPR leagues, I just don't see him getting the number of receptions like a Roddy White, Miles Austin, Reggie Wayne (to name a few top 10 talents). I do think however, the receptions/looks he does get will be quality......and his YPC and TD's will be solid the rest of the way. Top 10?? I think that's pushing it, but he'll have some REALLY solid/big games going forward. I see him as more of a Randy Moss type receiver. Lots of deep routes and long bomb highlight TD's.........but don't see him getting much of the underneath/possession receiver production (which will limit him IMO).
 
He could have another 3-4 TDs this year if he had a QB that could get the ball out there. He's been behind the DBs pretty consistently. Top 10 the rest of the way wouldn't surprise me.

 
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Just turned down Jennings for him straight up.So yeah, I agree with you.
Wow, that was bad move. With Finley out, Jennings' value goes up and the Packers will throw a lot more than the Steelers. The Steelers will have plenty of grind it out running games, the Packers wont have any.
 
Just turned down Jennings for him straight up.So yeah, I agree with you.
Wow, that was bad move. With Finley out, Jennings' value goes up and the Packers will throw a lot more than the Steelers. The Steelers will have plenty of grind it out running games, the Packers wont have any.
I disagree. And you noticed someone sent him the offer, not the other way around, obviously both parties agreed that Wallace was the better player.
 
Just turned down Jennings for him straight up.So yeah, I agree with you.
Wow, that was bad move. With Finley out, Jennings' value goes up and the Packers will throw a lot more than the Steelers. The Steelers will have plenty of grind it out running games, the Packers wont have any.
I disagree. And you noticed someone sent him the offer, not the other way around, obviously both parties agreed that Wallace was the better player.
BTW - FBG 250 going forward has them about the same. And I am not sure that they take into account the return of Big Ben's arm.I think Jennings value actually goes down without Finley there to take off some of the pressure (and also no real running game) from Jennings. DEFs have been able to bottle him up WITH Finely --- what makes you think he'll be able to get open with no Finley and no running game?
 
How many targets would you guess per game??? I have wallace, it seems he's a ghuge HR threat, but can we hope for some 8-10 cath games, with a TD thrown in???

 
How many targets would you guess per game??? I have wallace, it seems he's a ghuge HR threat, but can we hope for some 8-10 cath games, with a TD thrown in???
since he's a deep threat and gets behind defenders regularly he doesn't need as many targets to produce...8-10 catches a game seems high...but nobody made more of their catches than Wallace and Hicks last year....I think 4-5 catches per game seems more realistic...but at 20 ypc avg that is pretty good. I think his upside is Brandon Loyd's (minus his 11 catch game) check out Loyd's other games - catching between 3-6 catches a game 50-120 yds with a TD every other game...he was very close to averaging a TD a game without BBen...I think he's gonna do better with Ben.
 
Doesn't seem like a great bet to be top 10, more of a deep threat than ppr threat. i look for him to post similar numbers to greg jennings last year , with a few more tds. Heath Miller will be a more featured red zone target, hines ward will probably be good for his 5-7 catches a game. they will probably pound it alot of rashard mendenhall. I think randle el will step up a little bit too. If I had to guess I feel like 50-55 catches, 800-900 yards and 6tds the rest of the way is what I would peg him for. In standard league's i feel more comfortable considering him a high end wr2, but in ppr ill stick to mid-wr2. I wouldn't count out the top 10, but at 6ft, barely 200 pounds, and looking more skinny than muscular, he wont be running over the middle much or be counted on for posession receiver. He's a great bet to go 60 yards at any time tho, hence his upside is quite nice, but I doubt his whole body of work is top 10 from here on out

 
There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future.

The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR.

When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out.

The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.

 
There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future. The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR. When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out. The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.
I remember you saying this in another Wallace thread a while ago because you are the first person I've heard use the term "basket catcher" to refer to a WR. By basket catcher do you mean only that the WR catches the ball with his body as opposed to using his hands, or do you mean the WR catches the ball in a certain way, by forming a "basket" with his arms and hands. And what other "basket catchers" are there in the NFL?Anyway, would you call Desean Jackson a "basket catcher"? He is another speedy guy that catches the ball in a manner very similar to Wallace. If so, do you value Desean Jackson more than you do Wallace, or do you view Desean Jackson as a low WR3 like you seem to view Wallace.As far as big games vs. small for Wallace, so far he's played 4 games. Two have been crappy (2/24 and 2/25). One's been average (2/62). One has been elite (3/100/2). So your ratio is about right if you assume his number will not improve at all when Big Ben starts slinging the ball. Personally, I feel very optimistic that Ben will be hitting him in stride a lot more than Dixon/Batch did so the arrow points up from here. We'll see, though!
 
There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future. The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR. When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out. The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.
I remember you saying this in another Wallace thread a while ago because you are the first person I've heard use the term "basket catcher" to refer to a WR. By basket catcher do you mean only that the WR catches the ball with his body as opposed to using his hands, or do you mean the WR catches the ball in a certain way, by forming a "basket" with his arms and hands. And what other "basket catchers" are there in the NFL?Anyway, would you call Desean Jackson a "basket catcher"? He is another speedy guy that catches the ball in a manner very similar to Wallace. If so, do you value Desean Jackson more than you do Wallace, or do you view Desean Jackson as a low WR3 like you seem to view Wallace.As far as big games vs. small for Wallace, so far he's played 4 games. Two have been crappy (2/24 and 2/25). One's been average (2/62). One has been elite (3/100/2). So your ratio is about right if you assume his number will not improve at all when Big Ben starts slinging the ball. Personally, I feel very optimistic that Ben will be hitting him in stride a lot more than Dixon/Batch did so the arrow points up from here. We'll see, though!
I drafted Wallace late and have been waiting on him as my WR2 so I'm a believer. I think Ben comes out smoking this week and puts Wallace in the top 15 going forward.But he is a basket catcher. All arms and body and no hands when the ball arrives. His biggest weakness by far. I truly think he will get enough tight spirals @ 25 yds plus down the field to do some damage. In fact, I'm counting on it. But nothing would make me happier than to see him catch a doggone pass with his hands. Just once. You watch Austin make those nice grabs (all hands) and take off and you just know that this is what Wallace could be with a little more work. My guess is that the coaches are working with him pretty regular to get to this point, Tomlin does have a good staff, but they're not there yet. When I watch Steeler games this is probably the main thing I am looking at. To give me some idea as to should he be in my lineup.
 
richn said:
How many targets would you guess per game??? I have wallace, it seems he's a ghuge HR threat, but can we hope for some 8-10 cath games, with a TD thrown in???
Probably not a lot. Ward and Miller will still get theirs. And I fully expect the Steelers to lean on Mendenhall more than last year, even with Ben back.
 
There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future. The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR. When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out. The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.
I remember you saying this in another Wallace thread a while ago because you are the first person I've heard use the term "basket catcher" to refer to a WR. By basket catcher do you mean only that the WR catches the ball with his body as opposed to using his hands, or do you mean the WR catches the ball in a certain way, by forming a "basket" with his arms and hands. And what other "basket catchers" are there in the NFL?Anyway, would you call Desean Jackson a "basket catcher"? He is another speedy guy that catches the ball in a manner very similar to Wallace. If so, do you value Desean Jackson more than you do Wallace, or do you view Desean Jackson as a low WR3 like you seem to view Wallace.As far as big games vs. small for Wallace, so far he's played 4 games. Two have been crappy (2/24 and 2/25). One's been average (2/62). One has been elite (3/100/2). So your ratio is about right if you assume his number will not improve at all when Big Ben starts slinging the ball. Personally, I feel very optimistic that Ben will be hitting him in stride a lot more than Dixon/Batch did so the arrow points up from here. We'll see, though!
When I say basket catching, what I mean is catching the ball by trapping it against your chest/stomach. There aren't many WRs who make it into the NFL who are basket catchers; usually the ones that do are guys who make up for their poor pass technique with elite speed and quickness. Guys that come to mind are Darrius Heyward-Bey, Troy Williamson, Devery Henderson, and Ashley Lelie. Granted, I haven't been playing fantasy football for all that long so I've only paid attention to this recently, which explains why all those names are WRs who played recently or are currently playing. I like DeSean Jackson more than Mike Wallace for a few reasons. The first being that although DeSean does basket catch on occasion, he usually catches the ball with his hands, he just doesn't attack the ball with his hands like a stud WR should. He usually catches the ball with his hands, but he waits til the ball comes very close to his body. This is still a bad technique, it's not as good as attacking the ball with your hands, but it's better than basket catching. Another reason why I like DeSean more is that he has shown an above average ability of making defenders miss in the open field, Wallace has not yet shown this ability. Having said all that, I'm not a big fan of DeSean for fantasy purposes either. He's not a player I target in drafts, whether it be dynasty or redraft.
 
He's going to be my WR2 going down the stretch behind Austin. I hope it works out because I traded Cooley for him yesterday.

 
When I say basket catching, what I mean is catching the ball by trapping it against your chest/stomach. There aren't many WRs who make it into the NFL who are basket catchers; usually the ones that do are guys who make up for their poor pass technique with elite speed and quickness. Guys that come to mind are Darrius Heyward-Bey, Troy Williamson, Devery Henderson, and Ashley Lelie. Granted, I haven't been playing fantasy football for all that long so I've only paid attention to this recently, which explains why all those names are WRs who played recently or are currently playing.
Well, you may want to take another look at highlights for these two, at least (I didn't look at the others because I'm pretty familiar with Williamson and DHB). Although they do catch against their body on occasion, they more often (try to) use their hands. Moreover, both (especially Troy) seem to have significant problems tracking the ball and are plagued by dropped balls. I am not sure the same is true for Wallace - at least, I haven't noticed Wallace dropping a significant number of balls in the games I've watched and he wasn't noteworthy for drops last year (whereas Santonio Holmes, for example, had 10 - I'm assuming Holmes is not a "basket catcher"). Anyway, Williamson and Heyward-Bey don't seem comparable to Wallace to me.Wallace's "technique" is consistent(ly bad), I'll give you that. But it looks rather unique among NFL WRs to me, and dropped passes don't seem to be as big of a problem with him as the other players you mentioned (also, as mentioned, Williamson and Heyward-Bey are not consistent "basket catchers"). Is it possible that "basket catching" in and of itself is not the major red flag you think it is?

 
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There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future. The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR. When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out. The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.
Watch Moss his first three years. Guy was the biggest basket catcher ever.
 
There are a number of reasons why I think Wallace will not be a top 10 WR the rest of the season, or for any season in the future.

The largest reason being: he's just not that talented of a WR. He's got speed, he's got quickness, and that's about the extent of his talent. He's small, he can't break tackles, and he's not very good at catching the ball. That is not a common combination of traits for a top 10 WR.

When a WR is a basket catcher, such as Wallace is, it is difficult to make a lot of receptions in any given week. Wallace doesn't seem to be an exception to this, as he has only caught more than 3 receptions in a game twice in 20 games. So if you're starting Wallace, you best hope for a long TD, otherwise he's not putting up good fantasy numbers. Trying to guess which games he's gonna get that long TD is next to impossible. A WR who puts up 2-4 good weeks with 8-10 bad weeks isn't a WR I want to start week in and week out.

The only leagues where Wallace holds anywhere near his perceived value is non-PPR leagues with bonus points for long TDs imo.
I remember you saying this in another Wallace thread a while ago because you are the first person I've heard use the term "basket catcher" to refer to a WR. By basket catcher do you mean only that the WR catches the ball with his body as opposed to using his hands, or do you mean the WR catches the ball in a certain way, by forming a "basket" with his arms and hands. And what other "basket catchers" are there in the NFL?Anyway, would you call Desean Jackson a "basket catcher"? He is another speedy guy that catches the ball in a manner very similar to Wallace. If so, do you value Desean Jackson more than you do Wallace, or do you view Desean Jackson as a low WR3 like you seem to view Wallace.

As far as big games vs. small for Wallace, so far he's played 4 games. Two have been crappy (2/24 and 2/25). One's been average (2/62). One has been elite (3/100/2). So your ratio is about right if you assume his number will not improve at all when Big Ben starts slinging the ball. Personally, I feel very optimistic that Ben will be hitting him in stride a lot more than Dixon/Batch did so the arrow points up from here. We'll see, though!
When I say basket catching, what I mean is catching the ball by trapping it against your chest/stomach. There aren't many WRs who make it into the NFL who are basket catchers; usually the ones that do are guys who make up for their poor pass technique with elite speed and quickness. Guys that come to mind are Darrius Heyward-Bey, Troy Williamson, Devery Henderson, and Ashley Lelie. Granted, I haven't been playing fantasy football for all that long so I've only paid attention to this recently, which explains why all those names are WRs who played recently or are currently playing. I like DeSean Jackson more than Mike Wallace for a few reasons. The first being that although DeSean does basket catch on occasion, he usually catches the ball with his hands, he just doesn't attack the ball with his hands like a stud WR should. He usually catches the ball with his hands, but he waits til the ball comes very close to his body. This is still a bad technique, it's not as good as attacking the ball with your hands, but it's better than basket catching. Another reason why I like DeSean more is that he has shown an above average ability of making defenders miss in the open field, Wallace has not yet shown this ability. Having said all that, I'm not a big fan of DeSean for fantasy purposes either. He's not a player I target in drafts, whether it be dynasty or redraft.
Wallace doesn't make defenders miss because most of the time he is behind all the defenders when he makes his catches.
 
The thing I read about him is he is supremely confident that he can get behind any corner in the league. He may not catch 90 balls but he should be good for 10 TDs.

 
Working on his route running and his breaks was the biggest thing that Wallace had to improve on this off season. He has stated repeatedly that this is what he has been working on. He plays along side one of the best "player coaches" in Hines Ward who has made him his understudy. It seems with the departure of Holmes and the return on Roethlisberger, that Wallace will more than likely see a fairly big uptick in his stat line.

 
Some called me crazy for calling Wallace a top 10 WR the rest of the way but since I called this in week 6 when Big Ben returned Mike Wallace has been the #2 Fantasy WR in standard leagues behind only Dwayne Bowe. Best YPC of any WR in the NFL.

:goodposting:

 
33/759/8: 23 YPC is quite impressive. I wish he'd get more targets, but you can't argue with his production. 110+ yards and 4 TDs in his last 3 games.

 
Draft Pick: The case for Mike Wallace as the Top WR for Fantasy Football 2011

http://fantasyfootba...2011_1-9-11.htm
That's a ballsy call.
Not really. Ascending talent + elite QB + solid running game + Hines Ward fading = :drive:
I can't really see him as #1...Pitt pretty much does everything as a team, and I cannot see them flat out focusing on him every game. I do think he is a top ten lock though, and I would look to draft him in the 2nd round of a redraft, I would be ecstatic if he fell to the third.

For #1 next year, I am thinking either Nicks or Fitz, provided they get a decent qb.

 
Draft Pick: The case for Mike Wallace as the Top WR for Fantasy Football 2011 http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/WR_Wallace_2011_1-9-11.htm
That's a ballsy call.
Not really. Ascending talent + elite QB + solid running game + Hines Ward fading = :drive:
I don't think it's out of the question, but Wallace posted the 4th best receiving season in Steelers history last year. I expect him to put up top 10 numbers, but he will have to put up the best WR year in Steelers history to be the #1 WR.
 
Targets are the issue. He was the first receiver in NFL history to post a top 10 fantasy season in a ppr league with less than 100 targets. It's hard enough to crack the top 20 with only a few examples in recent history (DeSean Jackson)

 
Draft Pick: The case for Mike Wallace as the Top WR for Fantasy Football 2011 http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/WR_Wallace_2011_1-9-11.htm
That's a ballsy call.
Not really. Ascending talent + elite QB + solid running game + Hines Ward fading = :drive:
Not really? That link is predicting Mike Wallace is going to have the 3rd most receiving yards in a season by a WR of ALL TIME, and the 2nd most yards from scrimmage by a WR in a season of ALL TIME. You don't think that's ballsy? Yeesh.
 
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Targets are the issue. He was the first receiver in NFL history to post a top 10 fantasy season in a ppr league with less than 100 targets. It's hard enough to crack the top 20 with only a few examples in recent history (DeSean Jackson)
This is an interesting stat. All the more reason to get him more balls.
 
Wallace is a very interesting case. He showed a lot of growth over the course of last season at becoming a much more complete receiver, and a WR's third year has often been the season where it all comes together. So could we see some monstrous season out of him? Possibly. But I also think next year Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown will become much more involved in the offense, as Hines Ward starts getting phased out a bit as a starter. Sanders especially could be a guy who sees a big time increase in receptions. He was actually leading the Steelers in catches and yards in the postseason before he got hurt in the first quarter of the SB. And since Roethlisberger has always been a guy who spreads it around rather than focus on just one or two players, maybe there's not a big increase in targets awaiting him.

 

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