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Baltimore RB usage (1 Viewer)

H

hotlanta

Footballguy
Putting fantasy aside, from an NFL team perspective, how does it make sense to give your starting RB 56 carries over two games when you have a stud right behind him languishing away on the bench? I also might add that it's a very high paid stud (McGahee). With the NFL going to more of committee approaches to keep players healthy and fresh it doesn't really make sense for them to continue running Rice into the ground. Am I missing something here? For KC, for example, we all know that Charles is a super stud very similar to Rice, yet they continue to give Jones carries to keep Charles fresh. Much as it kills fantasy football, it has worked very well for them so far. Why is Baltimore not doing this? Do they really want to wear out Rice before the playoffs even start?

I know the thinking is that they are trying to trade McGahee so they don't want him getting hurt, hence they didn't use him. However, Harbaugh came out yesterday and explicitly said they are not looking to trade him. Which doesn't make sense either, because why would you want to continue paying a guy top dollar not to even snip the field when you can at least get a draft pick for him and get rid of that salary.

Oh, and to add, he's averaging 3.9 YPC with that insane workload.

I bet you are thinking that I own McGahee and yes, I do. However, I'm just trying to understand the rationale from a non-fantasy perspective.

 
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hotlanta said:
I know the thinking is that they are trying to trade McGahee so they don't want him getting hurt, hence they didn't use him. However, Harbaugh came out yesterday and explicitly said they are not looking to trade him. Which doesn't make sense either, because why would you want to continue paying a guy top dollar not to even snip the field when you can at least get a draft pick for him and get rid of that salary.I bet you are thinking that I own McGahee and yes, I do. However, I'm just trying to understand the rationale from a non-fantasy perspective.
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McGahee's price tag is not hurting the Ravens, and it's nice to have a quality RB for depth. Harbaugh said their plays against NE were designed for Rice. The flow of the game, defense, and the opponents dictate who gets what carries. No matter what, when healthy Rice is the starter. I think Rice owners have more of a stink to raise since he is the starter, but more times than not, McGahee gets the GL touches and he is the backup.
 
hotlanta said:
Putting fantasy aside, from an NFL team perspective, how does it make sense to give your starting RB 56 carries over two games when you have a stud right behind him languishing away on the bench? I also might add that it's a very high paid stud (McGahee). With the NFL going to more of committee approaches to keep players healthy and fresh it doesn't really make sense for them to continue running Rice into the ground. Am I missing something here?
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With all due respect, yes you are missing something. McGahee is not a stud. He is a name that once was a stud and is not anymore. Rice is better than McGahee in literally every area of the game. If McGahee had a different name, I don't think you would be asking this question.I do agree that maybe he should be given a couple of carries to keep Ray fresh. But not because he is good...simply trying not to overwork your best offensive player.
 
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jeffngold said:
hotlanta said:
Putting fantasy aside, from an NFL team perspective, how does it make sense to give your starting RB 56 carries over two games when you have a stud right behind him languishing away on the bench? I also might add that it's a very high paid stud (McGahee). With the NFL going to more of committee approaches to keep players healthy and fresh it doesn't really make sense for them to continue running Rice into the ground. Am I missing something here?
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With all due respect, yes you are missing something. McGahee is not a stud. He is a name that once was a stud and is not anymore. Rice is better than McGahee in literally every area of the game. If McGahee had a different name, I don't think you would be asking this question.I do agree that maybe he should be given a couple of carries to keep Ray fresh. But not because he is good...simply trying not to overwork your best offensive player.
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:goodposting:
 
hotlanta said:
CaptainHook said:
rice is a much better player
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Maybe. But I would argue that McGahee is no slouch. I mean we are not talking about Gore, CJ2K, or AP's backups here. I would expect them to get heavy workloads.
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We kinda are, Rice's ADP was 1.04, Gore was 1.05. CJ2K and AP are the definite 1-2, but most put Rice in the MJD/Gore category.Expect Rice to get heavy workloads. He did last year as well.

 
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.

 
rick6668 said:
hotlanta said:
CaptainHook said:
rice is a much better player
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Maybe. But I would argue that McGahee is no slouch. I mean we are not talking about Gore, CJ2K, or AP's backups here. I would expect them to get heavy workloads.
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We kinda are, Rice's ADP was 1.04, Gore was 1.05. CJ2K and AP are the definite 1-2, but most put Rice in the MJD/Gore category.Expect Rice to get heavy workloads. He did last year as well.
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Yes, but I was looking at this more from an NFL perspective, not a fantasy football perspective.I think packersfan addressed it well in his post. Running Rice into the ground doesn't make much sense for the Ravens.

 
hotlanta said:
HoTnickZ said:
You lost me at 'stud'.
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Would you consider Thomas Jones or even LT studs at this point in their careers? They are getting 15-18 carries a game backing up some young studs.
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No. I think his usage isn't a worry at this point because Mcgahee has spelled him a lot last year, and his injury this season (assuming it's past him) got him a bit of rest too. Mcgahee failed at converting a few goal-line attempts, which is just about all he was good for, so the coach decided to switch it up. Sometimes coaches see the benefit of giving your home run threat more carries, because that 26th one might be the homerun. I see your argument, but I still think an argument can be made for both sides. And at the end of the season, you have to look at how his carries measure up, not in a 2-3 week sample size.
 
I seem to recall that Jimmy Johnson once was criticized for the workload he put on Emmitt Smith, and that his reply was along the lines of "Emmitt's my horse, and I'm gonna ride him till he drops, then I'm gonna get me another horse". I think that the way they're using Rice more or less conforms to that way of thinking, and if the offense is working using that approach, it is kind of hard to argue with it. Full disclosure here - I am a Rice owner, so obviously I'm happy to see him getting the extra touches.

 
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
 
hotlanta said:
CaptainHook said:
rice is a much better player
Click to expand...
Maybe. But I would argue that McGahee is no slouch. I mean we are not talking about Gore, CJ2K, or AP's backups here. I would expect them to get heavy workloads.
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Rice is a much better player. There's no "maybe" about it.
 
waybackwhen said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
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I'm not saying he's injury prone but he has already suffered an injury this season.
 
youre looking at this from an espn talking head perspective. not an nfl perspective.

why are you so convinced that mcgahee is a stud and rice not deserving of being mentioned among the best ???

 
packersfan said:
waybackwhen said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
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I'm not saying he's injury prone but he has already suffered an injury this season.
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The injury was a 'bruise'. I mean, there is obviously some ambiguity in that assessment, but for all intents and purposes he got a dead leg. Not really much of an injury. And yes, I know he didn't play much that game, but by his accounts, he could have easily played more.
 
jeffngold said:
packersfan said:
waybackwhen said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
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I'm not saying he's injury prone but he has already suffered an injury this season.
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The injury was a 'bruise'. I mean, there is obviously some ambiguity in that assessment, but for all intents and purposes he got a dead leg. Not really much of an injury. And yes, I know he didn't play much that game, but by his accounts, he could have easily played more.
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He didn't start the following game and only had eight carries. I don't consider that to be a minor injury. It wasn't major but it was an injury that occurred and taking that into account I think giving him 30 carries a game is nuts. Especially when you have other capable RBs on the roster which I believe the Ravens do.
 
CaptainHook said:
youre looking at this from an espn talking head perspective. not an nfl perspective. why are you so convinced that mcgahee is a stud and rice not deserving of being mentioned among the best ???
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Not saying that Rice is not among the best. But even the best need breathers once in a while. All I'm saying that giving the backup,who is more than capable of performing and has in the past, zero carries is just mind boggling.I mean they are paying the guy $3.6 million plus a $1.5 million roster bonus to not even sniff the field in a game?Next year his salary jumps to $6 million, which is ridiculous for a backup. Why not trade him now and get something ratherthan cut him at the end of the season (which looks like a more than likely scenario) and get nothing? Seems like Ozzie Newsomeis smarter than this.
 
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Important question is: Will McGahee be a good sleeper against Buffalo this week or not? If Balt is up big and McGahee is still on the team, will they give it to him?

 
thriftyrocker said:
Important question is: Will McGahee be a good sleeper against Buffalo this week or not? If Balt is up big and McGahee is still on the team, will they give it to him?
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I definitely think so. They'll run all over Buffalo and may not need Rice the whole time. Plus, I think Harbaugh is already taking some flak for giving him no carries,so I think he'll try to make a statement in this one.
 
thriftyrocker said:
Important question is: Will McGahee be a good sleeper against Buffalo this week or not? If Balt is up big and McGahee is still on the team, will they give it to him?
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In theory he could be. However, I wouldn't be able to start him considering he didn't get a single snap in the previous game despite the fact McGahee had fared well against the Patriots in recent matchups. It would be a huge roll of the dice. It certainly could pay off because this looks like a game the Ravens should handle but if it was me McGahee would remain on my bench until he resumed his prior role with more consistency.
 
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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I don't think that they will. But I do agree with the posters above--the coaching staff thinks Rice is much better than McGahee. They want their best playmaker out there as much as possible. Probably, this last game, touch count got lost in the shuffle. I doubt that they want Rice getting more than 25 or at most 30 touches a game. And I bet they moderate it somewhat because they don't want to wear him out. But I don't think McGahee will have much fantasy value unless he is traded or Rice is hurt. He is a COP back who provides depth.
 
Pretty epic logic fail here. Regardless of the fact that he should get the carries, the fact is he's not. You quoted a 2 week sample size. Through the first month of the season he averaged 15 carries a game. Anyone who drafted Rice was probably making a more compelling argument in the other direction at that point. Ie why is an obvious asset only getting 15 carries a game?

Coach basically admitted in the loss to Cincy that Rice should have touched the ball more in a close game like that.

Looking down the list of FF first rounders with CJ, ADP, Sjax, MJD, Gore, etc, Rice strikes me as an outlier in terms of his low % of overall team RB touches, not the other way around.

 
az_prof said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
Click to expand...
I don't think that they will. But I do agree with the posters above--the coaching staff thinks Rice is much better than McGahee.
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I agree that he is. But that doesn't change my belief that giving Rice 30 carries a game is a questionable strategy should it continue. Like I said, I don't have a horse in this race but just looking at it from a football perspective that doesn't strike me as a smart move - especially when you consider Rice has already suffered one injury this season.
 
That Little Voice said:
Pretty epic logic fail here. Regardless of the fact that he should get the carries, the fact is he's not. You quoted a 2 week sample size. Through the first month of the season he averaged 15 carries a game. Anyone who drafted Rice was probably making a more compelling argument in the other direction at that point. Ie why is an obvious asset only getting 15 carries a game?Coach basically admitted in the loss to Cincy that Rice should have touched the ball more in a close game like that.Looking down the list of FF first rounders with CJ, ADP, Sjax, MJD, Gore, etc, Rice strikes me as an outlier in terms of his low % of overall team RB touches, not the other way around.
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Well said. I think Rice is perfectly capable of handling a heavy workload and they're using McGahee in the role he is best suited for: backup. Rice is not going to be handling the ball 35 times a week like he did in New England but there is no reason he cannot continue to handle 20-25 touches.
 
That Little Voice said:
Looking down the list of FF first rounders with CJ, ADP, Sjax, MJD, Gore, etc, Rice strikes me as an outlier in terms of his low % of overall team RB touches, not the other way around.
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Was curious, so heres the data. I chose the backs that IMO are least in a committee..no surprise that also means basically the first rounders from FF drafts.Player - Touches/Team RB Touches - % of Tm TotalGore - 149/161 - 92.5% :fishing: Jesus..buy Anthony Dixon low?ADP - 127/144 - 88.2%CJ - 154/189 - 81.5%Cedric - 108/137 - 78.8%Mendenhall - 124/158 - 78.5%SJax - 141/185 - 76.2%Rice - 138/206 - 70.0%
 
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When Rice is in the game the offense has more options and he is in fact a much better player then McGahee.

 
hotlanta said:
thriftyrocker said:
Important question is: Will McGahee be a good sleeper against Buffalo this week or not? If Balt is up big and McGahee is still on the team, will they give it to him?
Click to expand...
I definitely think so. They'll run all over Buffalo and may not need Rice the whole time. Plus, I think Harbaugh is already taking some flak for giving him no carries,so I think he'll try to make a statement in this one.
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:bow: From McGahee fantasy owners?

 
I will as a Rice and McGahee owner also add this.....look at teams that run a RBBC setup....seems like many of them have injury issues to all parties quite often so like with Indy, you wonder if either can play, or handle the load or whatever.........

At least with Baltimore, they can be happy with knowing that IF Ray were to get hurt, they can bring out a healthy WM...and plus if all teams did this, it would help us fantasy owners, so that's a bonus :yes:

 
hotlanta said:
Putting fantasy aside, from an NFL team perspective, how does it make sense to give your starting RB 56 carries over two games when you have a stud right behind him languishing away on the bench? I also might add that it's a very high paid stud (McGahee). With the NFL going to more of committee approaches to keep players healthy and fresh it doesn't really make sense for them to continue running Rice into the ground. Am I missing something here? For KC, for example, we all know that Charles is a super stud very similar to Rice, yet they continue to give Jones carries to keep Charles fresh. Much as it kills fantasy football, it has worked very well for them so far. Why is Baltimore not doing this? Do they really want to wear out Rice before the playoffs even start?

I know the thinking is that they are trying to trade McGahee so they don't want him getting hurt, hence they didn't use him. However, Harbaugh came out yesterday and explicitly said they are not looking to trade him. Which doesn't make sense either, because why would you want to continue paying a guy top dollar not to even snip the field when you can at least get a draft pick for him and get rid of that salary.

Oh, and to add, he's averaging 3.9 YPC with that insane workload.

I bet you are thinking that I own McGahee and yes, I do. However, I'm just trying to understand the rationale from a non-fantasy perspective.
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:yes:

 
Sounds like the Ravens are going to go back to giving McGahee his touches either because they failed to trade him or because they don't want to overwork Rice. Or maybe both.

Link

 
packersfan said:
Sounds like the Ravens are going to go back to giving McGahee his touches either because they failed to trade him or because they don't want to overwork Rice. Or maybe both.

Link
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Thanks, but there is no quote in there? Is this a beat writer's speculation or am I missing something below? I don't mean to question, and I am sure he is much more in the know, but I would like to know a bit more.
McGahee ready to roll

Unless he runs into some off the field problems or has an injury, running back Willis McGahee will most likely get touches in the first half of the team's 10 remaining regular season games.

McGahee didn't play Sunday against the Patriots because the Ravens thought starter Ray Rice was on the verge of breaking a long run and didn't put McGahee into the game.

But after reviewing the strategy, the Ravens plan to get McGahee touches.

It's a good move by the team, and look for the Ravens to use more of the three-back rotation with McGahee, Rice and fullback Le'Ron McClain.

A fresh McGahee would have come in handy against the Patriots, especially late in the game, when the Ravens wanted to pound the ball.

Posted by Mike Preston at 6:53 PM | Permalink | Comments (0)
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packersfan said:
waybackwhen said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
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I'm not saying he's injury prone but he has already suffered an injury this season.
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so has 50% of the league.
 
urbanhack said:
packersfan said:
waybackwhen said:
packersfan said:
I don't own either one and I think giving nearly 30 carries per game to any RB - much less one who already has had an injury - is crazy. McGahee isn't a stud but he's an above-average RB. Hell, McClain has shown he can get the job done at times too. I would be very concerned for the Ravens if this trend holds. They'll kill Rice if they keep giving him 30 carries a game.
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When did Rice become injury prone?
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I'm not saying he's injury prone but he has already suffered an injury this season.
Click to expand...
so has 50% of the league.
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And if 50% of the league's starting RBs had suffered injuries that led them to miss time I'd also be saying that perhaps giving them 30 carries a game isn't the smartest move to make.
 
packersfan said:
And if 50% of the league's starting RBs had suffered injuries that led them to miss time I'd also be saying that perhaps giving them 30 carries a game isn't the smartest move to make.
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:lmao: :wall:
That Little Voice said:
That Little Voice said:
Looking down the list of FF first rounders with CJ, ADP, Sjax, MJD, Gore, etc, Rice strikes me as an outlier in terms of his low % of overall team RB touches, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Was curious, so heres the data. I chose the backs that IMO are least in a committee..no surprise that also means basically the first rounders from FF drafts.Player - Touches/Team RB Touches - % of Tm TotalGore - 149/161 - 92.5% :loco: Jesus..buy Anthony Dixon low?ADP - 127/144 - 88.2%CJ - 154/189 - 81.5%Cedric - 108/137 - 78.8%Mendenhall - 124/158 - 78.5%SJax - 141/185 - 76.2%Rice - 138/206 - 70.0%
Click to expand...
 
hotlanta said:
Putting fantasy aside, from an NFL team perspective, how does it make sense to give your starting RB 56 carries over two games when you have a stud right behind him languishing away on the bench? I also might add that it's a very high paid stud (McGahee). With the NFL going to more of committee approaches to keep players healthy and fresh it doesn't really make sense for them to continue running Rice into the ground. Am I missing something here? For KC, for example, we all know that Charles is a super stud very similar to Rice, yet they continue to give Jones carries to keep Charles fresh. Much as it kills fantasy football, it has worked very well for them so far. Why is Baltimore not doing this? Do they really want to wear out Rice before the playoffs even start?I know the thinking is that they are trying to trade McGahee so they don't want him getting hurt, hence they didn't use him. However, Harbaugh came out yesterday and explicitly said they are not looking to trade him. Which doesn't make sense either, because why would you want to continue paying a guy top dollar not to even snip the field when you can at least get a draft pick for him and get rid of that salary.Oh, and to add, he's averaging 3.9 YPC with that insane workload.I bet you are thinking that I own McGahee and yes, I do. However, I'm just trying to understand the rationale from a non-fantasy perspective.
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The Committee approach doesn't always work...especially when you have very different RB styles. RBs, OL, and even QBs need time to get in sync ... committee screws this up.
 
That Little Voice said:
packersfan said:
And if 50% of the league's starting RBs had suffered injuries that led them to miss time I'd also be saying that perhaps giving them 30 carries a game isn't the smartest move to make.
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:yes: :yes:
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Not sure why you're so frustrated by my post. I simply don't believe that giving a RB - ANY running back regardless of their elite talent - 30 carries a game consistently is a smart move to make. The Ravens obviously want to get the ball to Rice. The Titans obviously want to get the ball to CJ. The 49ers and Gore and so on and so on. But is it really an outlandish statement to make that perhaps 30 carries per game might be a tad much - especially if you have a RB who has already missed time due to injury already? Seems more like common sense to me and with an 18-game schedule looming on the horizon it strikes me as an even more intelligent decision.
 
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