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In fantasy football yes - in real life football he earns a paycheck as a great decoy.
watch the saints offense when he comes back...they are going to become what they were last year again...its no fluke...its the absence of Bush i have no doubt.
He's pretty good in PPR leagues
wait ...really?...havnt listend to the audible since week 3...but thats the worst hahah i thought i was being smart for a second... should i close the thread?
oh no keep it open, I'm sure the SP has a POV too. Good topic on why the Saints are struggling
if they go back and redraft, i have these 11 players going ahead of reggie bush. so that puts him in the 10-15 range. a 1.02 pick playing the career of a 1.12 pick is not that bad at allmario williams, dbrickishaw, vernon, cutler, haloti, mangold, deangelo, mjd, brandon marshall, elvis drummerville, miles austin
I agree -- any time you would still be drafted in the 1st several years later there is no way you would be considered a bust.
he missed two games in 2009, and 6 games in 2008...and for some reason, I don't remember the Saints offense going thud during those stretches
I think its more that the opposing defenses have caught up with the Saints offensive schemes...and with the lack of a power running game, the Saints have no other real options than to roll with what the defenses are gameplanning for.
I think the Saints O is able to absorb the loss of either Bush or Thomas, as both have enough of a skill set to at least somewhat offset the loss of the other ( moreso Thomas, who can be very effective in the receiving RB role ) I'd say that losing both at the same time has hurt more. Neither Betts nor Ivory bring enough to the table to keep defenses off-balance, as each somewhat specializes in one aspect of the Saints RB game.Add one of these guys back, the Saints will look better on O. Add 'em both back, and I think we're pretty much back to what you saw last year.he missed two games in 2009, and 6 games in 2008...and for some reason, I don't remember the Saints offense going thud during those stretches
Yes I completely agree with this!
In a sport like Baseball, stats count for 95% at least, especially advanced metrics. The reason is that it is a 1 vs 1 game with very short episodes that can be measured. Football and BAsketball are completely different. These are games of 11 vs 11 or 5 vs 5 where each player affects the value and action of another player and instead of short measurable episodes, you have long periods of fluid action. Take a player like Kobe Bryant. His skill set is so diverse offensively, he is not just a guy that you have to worry about attacking the basket, but someone that will torch you from the outside, in the midrange, coming off screens, playing 1-2's, and even posting up. He then becomes the focal part of the defense's tactics. The first thing they worry about is how to we stop Kobe. Well, no one can stop the guy 1 vs 1, so they bring double teams. And not just double teams close to the basket, but double teams away from the basket. This opens up holes everywhere. Take Pau Gasol for example. Everyone now basically admits that this guy is one of the best big men in the game and the best offensive big man in the game. He has been an allstar and made all-nba teams every year since joining the Lakers and Kobe. Before joining the Lakers? Well, he had made 1 all-star game and no all-nba's in his long career up to that point. And he had won ZERO playoff games. What happened? Did his skills miraculously change once joining the Lakers? Of course not, his situation changed.Reggie Bush seems to have a similar effect. The defense must designate 2 line-backers to cover this guy because you will get burned trying to cover him with 1 LB. Just having 1 safety by his lonesome, also would most likely get you burned. You have to gameplan around him, you can't put a corner on him coming out of the backfield, so you must play a team defense with multiple people having the responsibility to shut him down. This obviously opens holes up everywhere else on the field. His importance is very underestimated. He is without doubt the 2nd most important player on the superbowl winning Saints in my opinion. I'm not sure if this nugget is true, but my buddy said he read that the head coach of the Saints said he was the most important player. I can't see him being more important than Brees though, so it could have been coach speak.good stuff manplyka said:Yes I completely agree with this!wiscstlatlmia said:
A few weeks ago on the Mike & Mike show they were talking about Reggie Bush. Think there were some other former players/coaches around as well. Basically it came down to if defensive players were lining up and saying I got this guy or that guy, not many would step up and say "I got Reggie Bush".plyka said:Yes I completely agree with this!wiscstlatlmia said:
plyka said:Yes I completely agree with this!wiscstlatlmia said:In a sport like Baseball, stats count for 95% at least, especially advanced metrics. The reason is that it is a 1 vs 1 game with very short episodes that can be measured. Football and BAsketball are completely different. These are games of 11 vs 11 or 5 vs 5 where each player affects the value and action of another player and instead of short measurable episodes, you have long periods of fluid action. Take a player like Kobe Bryant. His skill set is so diverse offensively, he is not just a guy that you have to worry about attacking the basket, but someone that will torch you from the outside, in the midrange, coming off screens, playing 1-2's, and even posting up. He then becomes the focal part of the defense's tactics. The first thing they worry about is how to we stop Kobe. Well, no one can stop the guy 1 vs 1, so they bring double teams. And not just double teams close to the basket, but double teams away from the basket. This opens up holes everywhere. Take Pau Gasol for example. Everyone now basically admits that this guy is one of the best big men in the game and the best offensive big man in the game. He has been an allstar and made all-nba teams every year since joining the Lakers and Kobe. Before joining the Lakers? Well, he had made 1 all-star game and no all-nba's in his long career up to that point. And he had won ZERO playoff games. What happened? Did his skills miraculously change once joining the Lakers? Of course not, his situation changed.Reggie Bush seems to have a similar effect. The defense must designate 2 line-backers to cover this guy because you will get burned trying to cover him with 1 LB. Just having 1 safety by his lonesome, also would most likely get you burned. You have to gameplan around him, you can't put a corner on him coming out of the backfield, so you must play a team defense with multiple people having the responsibility to shut him down. This obviously opens holes up everywhere else on the field. His importance is very underestimated. He is without doubt the 2nd most important player on the superbowl winning Saints in my opinion. I'm not sure if this nugget is true, but my buddy said he read that the head coach of the Saints said he was the most important player. I can't see him being more important than Brees though, so it could have been coach speak.
Randy Moss of RBs
That's going out on a thin and long limb. The reason they are down is the same reason all SB winners have troubles. Every game becomes a super bowl.Watch when he comes back.
He is?Last year in my 1 1/2 PPR he was 28th ranked RB. That's not very good. Maybe as a flex.He's pretty good in PPR leagues
I would imagine that he still probably won't come back until after the bye, but he did have limited participation in regular practice today.
He was 28th in PPG?He is?Last year in my 1 1/2 PPR he was 28th ranked RB. That's not very good. Maybe as a flex.He's pretty good in PPR leagues
I would agree. Wouldn't he have to be on the field more over the last four years for this theory to pan out? Last year they limited his touches per game to the lowest in his career and they have a monster offensive season and the OP sees the lack of Reggie as the reason the Saints aren't putting up strong numbers?2006 - 16 games played, 8 starts - 243 touches for 15/gamehe missed two games in 2009, and 6 games in 2008...and for some reason, I don't remember the Saints offense going thud during those stretches
IMO, they miss Thomas more than Bush.
ETA: meant to say "defenses"
Disagree
Your use of commas is awful, but you're right about bush.You waited for what, 1 series in the first game of the season, to bump your own post from almost a year ago?'wiscstlatlmia said:Nothing I've seen today has changed my opinion that no, Reggie Bush was not at all worth the #2 pick in the draft.
Yeah I was really confused about how to properly punctuate that first sentence (probably because it's not a real sentence). I stand by my comma in the second sentence!Your use of commas is awful, but you're right about bush.You waited for what, 1 series in the first game of the season, to bump your own post from almost a year ago?'wiscstlatlmia said:
that's the difference between the NFL and FFB. If his YPC stays that low, he won't be starting long. Those stats look good in FFB but in the NFL, those stats (which are pretty standard for his career), got him dumped for next to nothing.
20 touches last night. 14 for 5 yards or less! Yeah!Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?You Bush lovers are really a treat!
He has one 100 yd rushing game in his career. After watching him last night, he clearly has lost a step. Not interested.
Who is going to be starting, the underwhelming rookie? The numbers weren't great, but it was only 11 carries against a pretty good defense that got to him in the backfield a few times.Last night was just about what I expect out of Bush- decent but not great yardage totals with a TD every other week or so. He obviously isn't a stud, but I still think his biggest obstacle is going to be health- if he can stay healthy, I don't see Thomas cutting into his workload significantly and I expect him to be a solid #2 RB.
I think you should be. His YPC was low because they kept trying to run him up the middle. That's not his game. But he's the main guy, he's getting the touches, and I don't anticipate this changing unless/until he gets hurt.Fantasy football is all about opportunity, much more so than talent. There are very few RBs in the league who are their teams main man with virtually no competition for carries. Right now, Reggie Bush is one of those guys. That makes him an automatic RB1, IMO, for as long as it lasts.He has one 100 yd rushing game in his career. After watching him last night, he clearly has lost a step. Not interested.
ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defensePure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)RB #5 in PPR after Week 1This is how you play the game.Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
And this is how you get housed because you can't see beyond the fantasy numbers. If Reggie can only run for 3.5/carry, he's not going to be a starter in the NFL. They force fed the ball to Reggie on a team with a high powered O for years and finally had to change him to a scat back to get his best numbers of his career. Keep looking at all those catches and him getting all the touches and pretty soon you're going to wonder why he's no longer the starter and some underwhelming 2nd rounder is getting force fed the ball to get something going because they need more than 3 yards a carry in the NFL.ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defense
Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...
Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?
You Bush lovers are really a treat!
Pure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)
RB #5 in PPR after Week 1
This is how you play the game.
Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
Couldn't disagree more. I thought he finished his runs well last night, much more than he used to, and the Patriots made a strong effort to take him out of the game after the first drive of the game. Haynesworth and Wilfork are going to be tough to run on up the middle for just about any team, and I'm not entirely sure why they didn't let Bush carry off tackle more often. Bush is going to be the focal point of that offense as long as he's healthy and he runs with authority. Is he ever going to be a guy who makes a living as a bruising back pounding it up the middle? Probably not. But if he can even be reasonably productive doing that and they can mix in some sweeps and receptions, he's going to be a very productive player for both fantasy purposes and real-life.And this is how you get housed because you can't see beyond the fantasy numbers. If Reggie can only run for 3.5/carry, he's not going to be a starter in the NFL. They force fed the ball to Reggie on a team with a high powered O for years and finally had to change him to a scat back to get his best numbers of his career. Keep looking at all those catches and him getting all the touches and pretty soon you're going to wonder why he's no longer the starter and some underwhelming 2nd rounder is getting force fed the ball to get something going because they need more than 3 yards a carry in the NFL.ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defense
Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...
Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?
You Bush lovers are really a treat!
Pure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)
RB #5 in PPR after Week 1
This is how you play the game.
Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
This just in, no NFL coach gives a damn about your FFB team. If the guys getting the touches can't help them win ball games, they will bench them for other guys. Why does Addai keep getting touches? Because he's a great RB? No. Because he kept Manning upright and that was more important to the Colts than a 5.0 YPC. FFB owners hate on Addai because he's not a great back, but the Colts love him because he wins them games by keeping Manning on the field. See how important that is now that Kerry Collins is the QB? Where would Manning and the Colts be with a better RB who didn't pass block as well? Manning would've missed his first game a lot sooner than this.
Stop looking at the points he got you last night and start worrying about the guy looking no different than he has his entire career. That performance will win you games in FFB but Not For Long. The Dolphins don't have 2nd overall signing bonus invested in him. They can bench him at any time and if that rook shows anything it will be sooner rather than later and Reggie Bush will very quickly become an older Dexter McCluster....
??? Did you miss taking him in your draft?? This guy has always been valuable in FF.. and he will continue to get all the carries.. he looked good all around.. the Dolphins just didn't give him a chance to Run at all in the second half... they literally gave up on the running game to try and keep up with Brady.. which is why they lost.. and why they couldn't sustain any long drives and lost the game...Reggie Bush's only knock is his ability to stay healthy...And this is how you get housed because you can't see beyond the fantasy numbers. If Reggie can only run for 3.5/carry, he's not going to be a starter in the NFL. They force fed the ball to Reggie on a team with a high powered O for years and finally had to change him to a scat back to get his best numbers of his career. Keep looking at all those catches and him getting all the touches and pretty soon you're going to wonder why he's no longer the starter and some underwhelming 2nd rounder is getting force fed the ball to get something going because they need more than 3 yards a carry in the NFL.ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defense
Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...
Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?
You Bush lovers are really a treat!
Pure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)
RB #5 in PPR after Week 1
This is how you play the game.
Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
This just in, no NFL coach gives a damn about your FFB team. If the guys getting the touches can't help them win ball games, they will bench them for other guys. Why does Addai keep getting touches? Because he's a great RB? No. Because he kept Manning upright and that was more important to the Colts than a 5.0 YPC. FFB owners hate on Addai because he's not a great back, but the Colts love him because he wins them games by keeping Manning on the field. See how important that is now that Kerry Collins is the QB? Where would Manning and the Colts be with a better RB who didn't pass block as well? Manning would've missed his first game a lot sooner than this.
Stop looking at the points he got you last night and start worrying about the guy looking no different than he has his entire career. That performance will win you games in FFB but Not For Long. The Dolphins don't have 2nd overall signing bonus invested in him. They can bench him at any time and if that rook shows anything it will be sooner rather than later and Reggie Bush will very quickly become an older Dexter McCluster....
The guy has two 20 carry games in his career. Its been pointed on many occasions on this board that when Bush has been given the opportunity he has consistently produced. You wanna call him injury prone? I'm with you. The guy has been glass. But to say he's only valuable in FFB is laughable especially when you support that argument by pointing to skills he actually possesses such as pass blocking. The question around Bush always comes back to his draft position...my question has always been why draft a RB in that position when you have no plans of actually allowing him to run? He's not an every down back because he's not in on every down. He's not a guy who carries a full load because he's never been asked to carry a full load. He doesn't gain a ton of yards between the tackles because plays rarely call for him to run between the tackles. Put the nonsense hype and expectations aside in the criticism and realize that Bush is exactly what he's been asked to be...a valuable asset in both the running and passing game.'TheFanatic said:And this is how you get housed because you can't see beyond the fantasy numbers. If Reggie can only run for 3.5/carry, he's not going to be a starter in the NFL. They force fed the ball to Reggie on a team with a high powered O for years and finally had to change him to a scat back to get his best numbers of his career. Keep looking at all those catches and him getting all the touches and pretty soon you're going to wonder why he's no longer the starter and some underwhelming 2nd rounder is getting force fed the ball to get something going because they need more than 3 yards a carry in the NFL.'PhantomJB said:ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defense'Dancing Bear said:
Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...
Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?
You Bush lovers are really a treat!
Pure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)
RB #5 in PPR after Week 1
This is how you play the game.
Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
This just in, no NFL coach gives a damn about your FFB team. If the guys getting the touches can't help them win ball games, they will bench them for other guys. Why does Addai keep getting touches? Because he's a great RB? No. Because he kept Manning upright and that was more important to the Colts than a 5.0 YPC. FFB owners hate on Addai because he's not a great back, but the Colts love him because he wins them games by keeping Manning on the field. See how important that is now that Kerry Collins is the QB? Where would Manning and the Colts be with a better RB who didn't pass block as well? Manning would've missed his first game a lot sooner than this.
Stop looking at the points he got you last night and start worrying about the guy looking no different than he has his entire career. That performance will win you games in FFB but Not For Long. The Dolphins don't have 2nd overall signing bonus invested in him. They can bench him at any time and if that rook shows anything it will be sooner rather than later and Reggie Bush will very quickly become an older Dexter McCluster....
He ran through a few holes early, but he went down on first contact all night. Maybe we weren't watching the same game.'Steelers4Life said:Couldn't disagree more. I thought he finished his runs well last night, much more than he used to, and the Patriots made a strong effort to take him out of the game after the first drive of the game.'TheFanatic said:And this is how you get housed because you can't see beyond the fantasy numbers. If Reggie can only run for 3.5/carry, he's not going to be a starter in the NFL. They force fed the ball to Reggie on a team with a high powered O for years and finally had to change him to a scat back to get his best numbers of his career. Keep looking at all those catches and him getting all the touches and pretty soon you're going to wonder why he's no longer the starter and some underwhelming 2nd rounder is getting force fed the ball to get something going because they need more than 3 yards a carry in the NFL.'PhantomJB said:ADP of RB28Feature back in an offense with a suspect defense'Dancing Bear said:
Only one touch of more than 10 yards after the 1st series ...
Henne has a career night; a once in a life-time night. Bush ends up with 3.45 ypr and 6.22 ypr and you are seriously excited?
You Bush lovers are really a treat!
Pure gold as a Flex play (at that ADP easily could have been drafted in that role)
RB #5 in PPR after Week 1
This is how you play the game.
Hating on him is not going to make up for passing him over in your draft.
This just in, no NFL coach gives a damn about your FFB team. If the guys getting the touches can't help them win ball games, they will bench them for other guys. Why does Addai keep getting touches? Because he's a great RB? No. Because he kept Manning upright and that was more important to the Colts than a 5.0 YPC. FFB owners hate on Addai because he's not a great back, but the Colts love him because he wins them games by keeping Manning on the field. See how important that is now that Kerry Collins is the QB? Where would Manning and the Colts be with a better RB who didn't pass block as well? Manning would've missed his first game a lot sooner than this.
Stop looking at the points he got you last night and start worrying about the guy looking no different than he has his entire career. That performance will win you games in FFB but Not For Long. The Dolphins don't have 2nd overall signing bonus invested in him. They can bench him at any time and if that rook shows anything it will be sooner rather than later and Reggie Bush will very quickly become an older Dexter McCluster....
