(HULK)
(Smash)
I'm in my 40s and loved flavors like that though
I think the key to keeping it away from kids would be to STOP selling it to them, and to treat those who do sell it to minors as harshly as we treat sellers of other illegal substances.
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Electronic Cigarettes (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter (HULK)
- Start date
I think the key to keeping it away from kids would be to STOP selling it to them, and to treat those who do sell it to minors as harshly as we treat sellers of other illegal substances.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
One problem with it is that you can buy this stuff on Amazon. My daughter was telling me that kids get Amazon gift cards and buy it all from there. They have it sent to someone's house who's parents work past mail delivery. So even if you're 13 or 14 years old, you have no issue buying this stuff. At least with cigarettes, you had to go through a carding process. Sure it could be circumvented, but at least there was some kind of barrier from allowing people to buy it.
And while I loved those flavors at first, too, I also saw it as a slippery slope.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
You want to keep chatting about that argument? I was under the impression we were dropping it.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Well, I broke my right wrist last night about five minutes after my last post if that tells you anything.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'm trying to quit using a huge heavy battery.
I smoked for decades. Started at a very young age. I am old now. I can't function properly without the nicotine and without the breathing exercise/hand to mouth bit and I don't see that changing. I'm at peace with that.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Well hopefully you dodged the bullet regarding health consequences of smoking. But you’re never too old to quit nicotine.
KCitons
Footballguy
WTF?
I could write an Alfred Lord Tennyson poem after my time in the gun thread.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I did for the most part. And I’m not too old to quit, I’m to old to quit and not become the world’s oldest serial killer. It keeps me marginally sane.
Waingro
Footballguy
Just got the below email from JUUL. This really pisses me off.
I guess I was expecting this with the recent flavor ban but I was holding out hope that my Auto-Ship sub was not going to be subject to the NY State ban.
I've been a mango man for almost two years now and really don't want to go back to anything tobacco flavored, disgusting. I used to be a pack-a-day smoker for way too long and haven't smoked a single cigarette ever since I made the transition. I know I haven't kicked the addiction but I feel so much better now that I have gotten rid of the smoking. This is a step in the wrong direction for those of us who quit.
I guess I was expecting this with the recent flavor ban but I was holding out hope that my Auto-Ship sub was not going to be subject to the NY State ban.
I've been a mango man for almost two years now and really don't want to go back to anything tobacco flavored, disgusting. I used to be a pack-a-day smoker for way too long and haven't smoked a single cigarette ever since I made the transition. I know I haven't kicked the addiction but I feel so much better now that I have gotten rid of the smoking. This is a step in the wrong direction for those of us who quit.
Gawain
Footballguy
Back in my early vaping days (2013), there were a lot of folks making their own. VG/PG are easy to find and liquid nicotine is readily available. The only missing component is the flavoring and I'd expect to see the flavoring start to be sold separately.
Waingro
Footballguy
Appreciate the suggestion but don't think I am can put forth the effort. JUUL got me hooked with its simplicity - the disposable pods and the quick n easy charging. Going to sample the available flavors and hope the ban hammer doesn't get too out of hand.
Gawain
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I recommend looking into a Smok Infinix. Very similar apparatus to the JUUL but refillable by design.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Wait a second, I thought vitamin E was the culprit? You mean to tell me there may be other factors involved?
Any idea what stuff is tested at legal dispensaries?
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
and now there will be more black market vapes if they ban flavored ones. Gov't is so stupid.
Jobber
Footballguy
Waingro
Footballguy
Looks interesting especially if paired up with the idea that Gawain mentioned upthread. Thanks, I'll look into it.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
I have a few friends that have been long time tobacco smokers. I am going to buy them stuff to start vaping. Is Juul good or is there a better option out there? Simplicity is a plus.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I have only tried Juul once and was so long ago I don't remember. My only suggestion is what is available over the counter at a gas station may not leave the best impression with those you are trying to help. Getting over the hump of "this replicates my experience" is the most important part of transitioning. I got there with a Vapor4Life starter kit years ago. Not sure how V4L rates in the current market, but I still buy from them (graduated to better equipment... Zeus battery).
Don Hutson
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
I do now, but did not at first. Honestly, if I had to buy bottles at first instead of getting pre-made supplies, it probably would have been too much effort for me. I initially purchased prefilled cartomizers, bananas foster, coffee or chocolate banana were the ones that made me super willing to convert. After I got over that hump and considered it somewhat a hobby, I upped the equipment and worked a bit more on my own getting bottles because it is cheaper.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
Having cartridges instead of refilling liquid is a definite plus for the guys I'm buying for. Do you buy straight from the company because I can't find it on Amazon? Is this the unit you bought to go with the prefilled cartomizers: https://www.vapor4life.com/vapor-titan-standard-e-cig-kit/?
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, I order from the site. I get emails every couple days with 20-30% off coupon codes, so just send me an IM if you ever decide to go that route (or sign up for their email and you can get them directly, cancelling whenever you want). I used the standard Vapor King batteries for the first year with 1.8 nic prefilled cartomizers. Eventually I began using the tank and dual coil, because tanks hold overflow juice - so less topping off of normal cartomizers. I switched to Vapor Titan batteries because they were the only pen style battery with enough power for the dual coil tanks, and it looks like that is their base battery now. Personally, I liked the size of that titan battery as a replica of the cigarette size... it could help someone transition. However, I've moved exclusively to short Zeus batteries at this point because they are more reliable and hold a solid charge longer. Anyone you get to convert will probably make that move on their own, or even move on to other styles... I think a titan battery, charger and a variety of prefilled carts is a great introduction for most.
BigJim®
Footballguy
BTW- I only use Red Energy now (red bull flavor). Red energy gives me the solid throat hit I require from ecig that seems somewhat hit/miss in other flavors. My epiphany was trying a strong throat hit prefilled cart (either bananas foster or chocolate banana, can't recall) as I sort of faked my way through a transition expecting to fail. When my wife took off on an errand of some sort I lit up the last camel light I'd been saving for that sort of opportunity... and I could not even feel the inhale because the cartomizers I'd been using were stronger. I put it out half finished, stinking like a GD ash tray, and never saw a need to do that again. It did nothing for me.
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
The prefilled cartridges only seem to have tobacco and menthol flavors. I think the new federal law only allows self-filled liquids to be other flavors. Could you make a recommendation from this page of prefilled cartridges (my friends are non-menthol, pack-a-day smokers of 30 years, if that matters): https://www.vapor4life.com/cartridgesBigJim® said:
And thanks for all of your help! You saved me a couple of hours of research time!
BigJim®
Footballguy
Boy, that stinks. I never found a tobacco flavor I liked. It's the one good thing about vaping, that you are not a slave to stuff that tastes horrible. Some one else will have to advise there. It changes my take on juice because flavor is one of the big upsides to the transition, JMHO. I think I'd get a 1.8% bottle of red energy, youtube "condom method" to easily prep a blank for use, and chalk it up to a <> $10 waste if it doesn't work out. Cafe mocha is another good V4L flavor if you're dealing with coffee drinkers. My brother swears by waffle flavor.
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
To my knowledge, none of the major carriers, USPS, Fedex, UPS, DH etc are allowed to deliver nic juice anymore. Final score.
Big tobacco 1
Little guy 0
Big tobacco 1
Little guy 0
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I'm with my bro at a LAX hotel. We're off to Hawaii tomorrow. He dumped a pack and a half a day habit for vaping about three years ago. He says Flawless vape shop is the place to get your gear. Shipping is reasonable and fast. Tons of product. He recommends juice from Humble, Vapestasia, and Yogi. Expecially, Yogi coffee/mocha blends. His favorite. He's vaping Humble's guava atm and it smells like we're already in Hawaii. His son, who we're going to visit, got him to quit smoking for vaping, so I am about to be surrounded by this. He also recommends the clearance section to get the most out of your order/shipping.BigJim® said:
According to him the US is nutso and wrong about vaping. It is life saving for long-term smokers. In Europe and Asia it is prescribed as nicotine replacement therapy, sold in hospital pharmacies and relatively harmless compared to smoking. He goes on and on about the differences.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Coming up on 13 years of vaping. Haven't picked up a cigarette since. Got a CT scan this year and my lungs look like I never even smoked (although I did from 1996 to 2010). Blood pressure good. Basically, I'm still tip top.Just switched on Monday.
Seems there is a lot of push by the FDA and such to crush these things into oblivion. Mysays that this is all because Big Tobacco doesn't want to lose market share.
My thought is that they have to be safer than regular smokes. Like a 1000 times safer. Or am I missing something here?
And here we are in this country still demonizing vaping. My kids have been taught that vaping is MORE dangerous than smoking. WTF are we doing in this country? Smoking literally kills 480,000 Americans a year, it's the leading cause of preventable death. Meanwhile vaping legal products has caused... Lemme check... ZERO deaths a year. I can't believe we're this frigging stupid as a nation.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Nicotine vaping in England: 2022 evidence update
The final annual update in the current series of evidence reviews about the health harms of vaping, by leading independent tobacco experts.
This is a comprehensive review of ALL vaping research conducted thus far, literally thousands of studies. Conclusions remain the same, at least 20 times safer than smoking, probably more. They can't even definitively say that it has negative health impacts... It probably does but the evidence for that is mixed at best. A couple years ago I compared it to coffee, because nicotine and caffeine are really not that far off of each other in impacts to our health.
Why have science if we just ignore evidence that doesn't fit the narrative we've subscribed to? Ugh.
I wouldn't recommend vaping to a non-smoker, but I do recommend it to every single smoker out there.
At this point, I firmly believe that if you have 6 alcoholic beverages a week you are doing significantly more damage to your body than if you vape full time.
ETA: if I had to guess, a cup of coffee is less harmful than vaping an equivalent amount. But we still haven't proven that to be true with certainty.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
While I agree vaping is much safer than conventional smoking, it’s not exactly healthy. There are harmful substances in vape products, including carcinogens.Coming up on 13 years of vaping. Haven't picked up a cigarette since. Got a CT scan this year and my lungs look like I never even smoked (although I did from 1996 to 2010). Blood pressure good. Basically, I'm still tip top.Just switched on Monday.
Seems there is a lot of push by the FDA and such to crush these things into oblivion. My
My thought is that they have to be safer than regular smokes. Like a 1000 times safer. Or am I missing something here?
And here we are in this country still demonizing vaping. My kids have been taught that vaping is MORE dangerous than smoking. WTF are we doing in this country? Smoking literally kills 480,000 Americans a year, it's the leading cause of preventable death. Meanwhile vaping legal products has caused... Lemme check... ZERO deaths a year. I can't believe we're this frigging stupid as a nation.
More importantly, vaping has only been a thing for like 20 years. Cancer, vascular and chronic lung disease all take decades to develop in smokers, so its too early to say e-smoking won’t have long term health effects.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Also, the comparison to coffee isn’t great, as coffee is arguably one of the healthiest substances one can consume.
ETA Six alcoholic beverages a week may be a better comparison, but it remains to be seen.
ETA Six alcoholic beverages a week may be a better comparison, but it remains to be seen.
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(HULK)
(Smash)
Coffee isn't. Just nicotine and caffeine in a vacuum are similar in terms of impacts on the body. Drinking a cup of nicotine might be similar, I dunno. Vaping is clearly different and carries separate risks.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I can confidently say that there are zero carcinogens involved in my vaping.While I agree vaping is much safer than conventional smoking, it’s not exactly healthy. There are harmful substances in vape products, including carcinogens.Coming up on 13 years of vaping. Haven't picked up a cigarette since. Got a CT scan this year and my lungs look like I never even smoked (although I did from 1996 to 2010). Blood pressure good. Basically, I'm still tip top.Just switched on Monday.
Seems there is a lot of push by the FDA and such to crush these things into oblivion. My
My thought is that they have to be safer than regular smokes. Like a 1000 times safer. Or am I missing something here?
And here we are in this country still demonizing vaping. My kids have been taught that vaping is MORE dangerous than smoking. WTF are we doing in this country? Smoking literally kills 480,000 Americans a year, it's the leading cause of preventable death. Meanwhile vaping legal products has caused... Lemme check... ZERO deaths a year. I can't believe we're this frigging stupid as a nation.
More importantly, vaping has only been a thing for like 20 years. Cancer, vascular and chronic lung disease all take decades to develop in smokers, so its too early to say e-smoking won’t have long term health effects.
A lot of the early vaping studies that showed carcinogens involved funding from sources actively looking to taint vaping, and the methods utilized did not remotely mimic how vaping is actually done.
To stick with coffee, the research was as if Red Bull funded a study on coffee looking for negative effects and had people chug coffee for 3 minutes straight without stopping and then started saying drowning was a possible side effect of coffee use. That's how far off from reality the methodology in those studies were.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I admit to not scrutinizing the vaping literature in fine detail. But I’ll reserve judgement on potential carcinogenesis, until time passes and we have more data.I can confidently say that there are zero carcinogens involved in my vaping.While I agree vaping is much safer than conventional smoking, it’s not exactly healthy. There are harmful substances in vape products, including carcinogens.Coming up on 13 years of vaping. Haven't picked up a cigarette since. Got a CT scan this year and my lungs look like I never even smoked (although I did from 1996 to 2010). Blood pressure good. Basically, I'm still tip top.Just switched on Monday.
Seems there is a lot of push by the FDA and such to crush these things into oblivion. My
My thought is that they have to be safer than regular smokes. Like a 1000 times safer. Or am I missing something here?
And here we are in this country still demonizing vaping. My kids have been taught that vaping is MORE dangerous than smoking. WTF are we doing in this country? Smoking literally kills 480,000 Americans a year, it's the leading cause of preventable death. Meanwhile vaping legal products has caused... Lemme check... ZERO deaths a year. I can't believe we're this frigging stupid as a nation.
More importantly, vaping has only been a thing for like 20 years. Cancer, vascular and chronic lung disease all take decades to develop in smokers, so its too early to say e-smoking won’t have long term health effects.
A lot of the early vaping studies that showed carcinogens involved funding from sources actively looking to taint vaping, and the methods utilized did not remotely mimic how vaping is actually done.
To stick with coffee, the research was as if Red Bull funded a study on coffee looking for negative effects and had people chug coffee for 3 minutes straight without stopping and then started saying drowning was a possible side effect of coffee use. That's how far off from reality the methodology in those studies were.
Until then, I favor methods to promote smoking cessation, rather than what will likely end up as a harm mitigation strategy via vaping.
ETA If you want nicotine, why not spare the lungs and just chew the gum?
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(HULK)
(Smash)
I tried the gum. And the lozenges. And the patch. And Chantix. And Wellbutrin. And cold turkey.I admit to not scrutinizing the vaping literature in fine detail. But I’ll reserve judgement on potential carcinogenesis, until time passes and we have more data.I can confidently say that there are zero carcinogens involved in my vaping.While I agree vaping is much safer than conventional smoking, it’s not exactly healthy. There are harmful substances in vape products, including carcinogens.Coming up on 13 years of vaping. Haven't picked up a cigarette since. Got a CT scan this year and my lungs look like I never even smoked (although I did from 1996 to 2010). Blood pressure good. Basically, I'm still tip top.Just switched on Monday.
Seems there is a lot of push by the FDA and such to crush these things into oblivion. My
My thought is that they have to be safer than regular smokes. Like a 1000 times safer. Or am I missing something here?
And here we are in this country still demonizing vaping. My kids have been taught that vaping is MORE dangerous than smoking. WTF are we doing in this country? Smoking literally kills 480,000 Americans a year, it's the leading cause of preventable death. Meanwhile vaping legal products has caused... Lemme check... ZERO deaths a year. I can't believe we're this frigging stupid as a nation.
More importantly, vaping has only been a thing for like 20 years. Cancer, vascular and chronic lung disease all take decades to develop in smokers, so its too early to say e-smoking won’t have long term health effects.
A lot of the early vaping studies that showed carcinogens involved funding from sources actively looking to taint vaping, and the methods utilized did not remotely mimic how vaping is actually done.
To stick with coffee, the research was as if Red Bull funded a study on coffee looking for negative effects and had people chug coffee for 3 minutes straight without stopping and then started saying drowning was a possible side effect of coffee use. That's how far off from reality the methodology in those studies were.
Until then, I favor methods to promote smoking cessation, rather than what will likely end up as a harm mitigation strategy via vaping.
ETA If you just want nicotine, why not spare the lungs and just chew the gum?
None of them worked long term. Vaping has kept me off of cigarettes successfully for 12 years and 10 months.
Everyone is different, certain things work better for some people than other things. Mainly, I think people should get off of smoking as it will kill them. Vaping won't. The gum won't. Etc etc.
I think the information war our country wages on vaping keeps more people smoking and more people dying. Our FDA constantly pushes an agenda that is not backed by science, and actually contrary to the science that they have in the studies they've conducted. Why? It isn't in the name of public health.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Reason has some really great coverage of that if you're interested:
reason.com
E-cigarettes | Reason Archives
Reason Magazine’s archive of articles filed under E-cigarettes. Reason is an American libertarian monthly magazine published by the Reason Foundation.
reason.com
rockaction
Footballguy
I was going the vaping route until I did this. Worked like a godsend for me. I was stunned to hear that people had suicidal ideations and actions on it. I never would have known. It just . . . I was done smoking within a week. I went back during a stressor in 2015 for about two months, but I used the same medication and quickly quit again from then until the present. So one period of about three-four years followed by a relapse, which was followed by another eight year period of no smoking. I'll take it considering it came not from will, but from a pill.
That said, I appreciate your dogged tenacity to follow the studies and literature instead of relying on an establishment that has its own incentives and shibboleths about what is desirable and undesirable.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I’m sorry hulk, vaping is for douchenozzles. Is your’s flavored? my boss takes 27 to 384 vape breaks a day. Giant clouds of some sort of blueberry cotton candy or some such nonsense. My favorite is when I have to go talk to him on one of these crack breaks. He gets sooooo pissed that I’m interrupting his 241st smoke break. The entire building knows to look for him at his vape spot, rather than his office. So lame.
i am very happy for you that it helped you stop smoking.
i am very happy for you that it helped you stop smoking.
rockaction
Footballguy
Lol, but I think (HULK) is talking e-cigs here. Perhaps it's just moved on to vaping in general. Those people in California with their vape canisters are extra nozzley, IMO. It's like an oxygen tank, only for nicotine.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Vaping isn’t the most effective way to quit smoking, and its long term impact on health is unclear. So it isn’t surprising vaping hasn’t been embraced by mainstream medicine.
As a second/third line effort, it’s fine. But considering smoking cessation usually takes multiple attempts (6, on average, IIRC), I ‘d definitely try all the shibboleths, before settling for harm reduction.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I do fruit flavors usually. I'm not like that guy. I'm all about stealth. I use a smaller device and don't make huge clouds. Most people have zero clue I vape.
I agree your boss is a douche. He probably thinks it's cool or something like that. I do not think that way at all.
(HULK)
(Smash)
That's completely reasonable IMO.
I feel like it is vilified in the US though, and unjustly.
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