You would be in the minority. Substitute teaching is glorified babbysitting with the priveledge of parking in the teacher spot.
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Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter cr8f
- Start date
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I was informed today by a couple people "in the know" i.e. administrators that work in MPS that it is possible, at least there have been talks, about firing some teachers if they do not show up to work next week. MPS is in a world of hurt anyway and while their teachers do get paid very well, in this economic climate those teachers cannot afford to leave their positions. However, like I said earlier in this thread, if anything of this nature happens, I will be on the phone with these administrators and ask where I need to be with credentials in hand with one question only. What school do you need me at?
Also, MPS does not have school on Monday so many teachers may be there on that day as well.
Also, MPS does not have school on Monday so many teachers may be there on that day as well.
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
I am not denying your characterization of substitutes, however, it does no good to paint all subs in the same light. I am just speaking for myself and have also seen other subs that fit what you describe.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, when I find a good sub, I get their info. When I am putting in for a day, I make sure to contact that sub to give them a heads-up so they can sign up for my spot. A good sub is a valuable thing.
Jewell
Footballguy
Jesse "The Mind" Ventura
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I am curious since I do not watch national news or anything, how much coverage is going on about this? In the wake of Egypt and that turning into a not so "peaceful" protest, I, so far, am happy to see that this is going peaceful and showing the world, if they are watching, that people can protest without violence.at least nothing like the following has occurred:
Mario Kart
Footballguy
All of the quotes can found via www.jsonline.comFor those interested in hearing some things, Mark Belling probably does the best job covering the stuff. Listen to his podcasts or radio show daily at 3:00 pm. There are a couple of other voices on Milwaukee radio but not worth listening to in my opinion.
4 - Digit Shark
Footballguy
Why are these bad teachers still there?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Union protection, poor administrators whom are unwilling to take the steps to remove them, due process is not complete yet, connections to board members, and potential disagreements about these people actually being bad teachers.
Fishboy
Footballguy
Outside this recent fiasco, what do you know about Walker? Are you a former resident of milwaukee or the state? When he was Milwaukee County Supervisor, what he said is what he did. He said he was going to balance the budget without raising taxes, this is exactly what he did. Year after year after year. Keep in mind he did just this while our former governor was spending and borrowing money the state simply doesn't have.Boy sure about you, but I define year after year of balanced budgets without raising taxes leaps and bounds more fiscally responsible compared to our neighboring counties and state government raising taxes and dipping into other funds like tobacco to support their rampant increase in spending.Care to elaborate what special interests groups he is such a shill for? I could say this is true of our former Governor and many of the other state politicians, but don't see it in Walker.40 plus years here, all in SE WI and it's about time we have a leader who does exactly what he said he was going to do. Finally, we have someone who asks the public worker pay closer to their fair share.We aren't even near the tip of the iceberg here, wait until the state slashes the money going to the local communities. Each local community is going to be forced with similar choices in Wisconsin. Walker has been warning of this slashing all through and that is going wildly unreported.
4 - Digit Shark
Footballguy
Kinda what I figured, but figured it would be better to have it confirmed by someone with direct knowledge.While I will admit I have much to learn about unions, IMO these unions do more harm then good.Do they serve a purpose, maybe, but the protection they provide for teachers that are cheating the kids and wasting our money, not to mention the deals cut with their bubby politicians that are totally unaffordable, far outweighs any good I would know of. It just will not continue to work much longer, and it's time for people to realize that.I have buddies in the Electrical Union, and still can not figure out how they are OK with everyone being paid the same, based on years of service, regardless of their production and worth. Especially when they tell me how some guys work. I guess the job security allows them to look the other way. I'm not saying all union workers are bad and all non union workers are good, but I am saying everyone should be held accountable for their performance and no one should be paid wages or benefits that the people paying them do not have, period.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ventura went straight from high school to six years in the Navy.Walker went straight from high shool to four years at Marquette University.It's true Jesse took some community college course in between attaining membership with the Hell's Angels, being a bodyguard for the Rolling Stones, and beginning his entertainment career as a tag team wrestler. I'm not sure how many credits he completed, but it sounds like not many.The current governor of Wisconsin, solid C student, came up 36 credit hours short of a degree. Still, he's had a productive political career. Give him full credit for what he's done, I think its really impressive. It should also be noted that even when he was at the county level, his number one goal has been to bust unions. He's been very consistent.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I have only been a teacher for a few years and work at a small school (900 students), but we did have 1 teacher fired (caught stealing money). The union did not fight the school board's decision. We also have 2 teachers who are on probation which is a step away from being let go. The biggest problem right now with getting rid of some teachers is that the principal is extremely arrogant. If he were to fire a teacher he hired, it would mean he made a mistake in hiring them. He is not willing to ever admit a mistake. In the end, these bad teachers are not terrible. They aren't disregarding students education or disregarding basic workplace rules. It is more that they are older and a bit out of touch. Also, a couple of these teachers I think are bad are actually well respected by some of the other teachers and students. I very well could be wrong in my judgment of them.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, when I look at most of the world's richest and most successful businessmen, it would appear that a college degree isn't required for great success. I don't think that Gates or Zuckerberg regret dropping out.
snogger
Footballguy
cr8f
Footballguy
It's been said that state Democrats and labor unions are trying to reverse the results of the November 2010 elections.
Actually, it's the outcome of a handful of 2008 races that political liberals and conservatives are now working to undo.
Several sources confirmed that Wisconsin Democrats and labor leaders are plotting recall elections for several Republican senators as soon as lawmakers push through Gov. Scott Walker's budget plan to curb collective bargaining rights and require public employees to chip in part of their salary toward their health care and pension costs.
"Those are options people are looking at," said Marty Beil, director of the largest state employees union.
Even more emphatic was Rich Abelson, executive director of AFSCME Council 48, which represents county and city employees in the Milwaukee area.
"This is not a Plan B," Abelson said Friday night. "This is going forward irrespective of how the vote turns out. Oh, yeah, we are going to make a full-court press."
On the other hand, the Citizens for Responsible Government Network has announced that it is advising groups interested in ousting two Senate Democrats who joined their colleagues in fleeing Wisconsin to prevent a vote on Walker's proposed budget repair plan.
"There's a good deal of will to replace these guys," said Chris Kliesmet, head of the conservative political group. "These guys are on the lam."
The wheels already appear to be set in motion for a recall vote in one Milwaukee-area district.
Last week, Sen. Alberta Darling, a River Hills Republican, helped shepherd Walker's budget repair bill through the Joint Finance Committee, of which she is a co-chairman. The vote stalled in the state Senate when the 14 Democrats fled the state, preventing the upper house from being able to get a quorum to meet and vote on the bill that set off massive protests at the Capitol.
Darling defeated then-Rep. Sheldon Wasserman, a Milwaukee Democrat, by a narrow margin in 2008.
Wasserman said Friday that he has been contacted by a handful of Democrats and union officials asking if he would run against Darling if she faces a recall election.
Wasserman, an OB/GYN, made it clear that he is itching to take on the veteran lawmaker. He said Darling, who has run as a moderate Republican, is already toeing Walker's "hard-core conservative" party line.
"I am interested," said Wasserman, who seriously considered running for Milwaukee County executive after Walker was elected governor in November. "She'll have a fight on her hands."
Darling said last week in an interview that she is well aware of the recall talk.
But given the state's looming $3.6 billion budget deficit, she said she is committed to supporting the first-term Republican governor's austerity measures. One of the wealthier members of the Legislature, she said she has no plans to step up her fundraising activity.
Still, Darling did acknowledge that everyone has been caught by surprise by the protests.
"This has much more intensity" than previous ones, said Darling, who has served as a lawmaker for more than 20 years. "Clearly, in terms of numbers, this is the biggest demonstration against a piece of legislation in the Capitol that I have ever seen."
In all, Democratic insiders and labor leaders have identified six Senate Republicans who may be the subject of recall elections. But the focus, so far, seems to be on Darling and Sens. Dan Kapanke of La Crosse and Randy Hopper of Fond du Lac, both of whom are from districts that are fairly evenly divided between Republicans and Democrats.
Kapanke and Hopper left the Capitol early Friday afternoon and could not be reached for comment
Kliesmet, the CRG leader, said his group would be willing to help any lawmakers targeted for recalls because they support Walker's proposal. But the group has not yet been asked.
His group is focusing its efforts on recalling two Democrats - Sen. Jim Holperin of Eagle River and Bob Wirch of Kenosha. Holperin survived a recall effort in 1990.
For Democrats and labor officials, the clock is ticking.
Insiders say they want to make sure the recall elections are held before Republicans, who control the Assembly and Senate, redraw the boundaries for legislative districts in light of the 2010 census numbers, which are being released this month. In addition, Democrats are desperate to stop Walker from pushing through his agenda, something they could do only if they flip three Senate districts currently held by Republicans.
Walker told the Journal Sentinel he is not concerned about his proposals possibly leading to the ouster of some Republicans.
"In the end, doing the right thing is not only the right thing to do," the governor said in a Friday interview. "I think people respect doing the right thing."
State law prohibits anyone from recalling elected officials until they have held office for at least a year. That means, despite all the talk among Madison protesters, Walker cannot be the subject of a recall election for nearly another year. The same holds true for all the members of the state Assembly and half of the state senators.
One prominent Democrat told No Quarter that national labor leaders are deeply involved in planning the recall elections against Senate Republicans - even though national and local labor officials disputed this.
The Wall Street Journal reported last week that the presidents of dozens of national unions had pledged more than $25 million to counter efforts to scale back bargaining rights in Wisconsin and other states. In addition, Politicosaid last week that the Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm - the part of President Barack Obama's presidential campaign - is helping out with the Wisconsin protests.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/116545518.html
Actually, it's the outcome of a handful of 2008 races that political liberals and conservatives are now working to undo.
Several sources confirmed that Wisconsin Democrats and labor leaders are plotting recall elections for several Republican senators as soon as lawmakers push through Gov. Scott Walker's budget plan to curb collective bargaining rights and require public employees to chip in part of their salary toward their health care and pension costs.
"Those are options people are looking at," said Marty Beil, director of the largest state employees union.
Even more emphatic was Rich Abelson, executive director of AFSCME Council 48, which represents county and city employees in the Milwaukee area.
"This is not a Plan B," Abelson said Friday night. "This is going forward irrespective of how the vote turns out. Oh, yeah, we are going to make a full-court press."
On the other hand, the Citizens for Responsible Government Network has announced that it is advising groups interested in ousting two Senate Democrats who joined their colleagues in fleeing Wisconsin to prevent a vote on Walker's proposed budget repair plan.
"There's a good deal of will to replace these guys," said Chris Kliesmet, head of the conservative political group. "These guys are on the lam."
The wheels already appear to be set in motion for a recall vote in one Milwaukee-area district.
Last week, Sen. Alberta Darling, a River Hills Republican, helped shepherd Walker's budget repair bill through the Joint Finance Committee, of which she is a co-chairman. The vote stalled in the state Senate when the 14 Democrats fled the state, preventing the upper house from being able to get a quorum to meet and vote on the bill that set off massive protests at the Capitol.
Darling defeated then-Rep. Sheldon Wasserman, a Milwaukee Democrat, by a narrow margin in 2008.
Wasserman said Friday that he has been contacted by a handful of Democrats and union officials asking if he would run against Darling if she faces a recall election.
Wasserman, an OB/GYN, made it clear that he is itching to take on the veteran lawmaker. He said Darling, who has run as a moderate Republican, is already toeing Walker's "hard-core conservative" party line.
"I am interested," said Wasserman, who seriously considered running for Milwaukee County executive after Walker was elected governor in November. "She'll have a fight on her hands."
Darling said last week in an interview that she is well aware of the recall talk.
But given the state's looming $3.6 billion budget deficit, she said she is committed to supporting the first-term Republican governor's austerity measures. One of the wealthier members of the Legislature, she said she has no plans to step up her fundraising activity.
Still, Darling did acknowledge that everyone has been caught by surprise by the protests.
"This has much more intensity" than previous ones, said Darling, who has served as a lawmaker for more than 20 years. "Clearly, in terms of numbers, this is the biggest demonstration against a piece of legislation in the Capitol that I have ever seen."
In all, Democratic insiders and labor leaders have identified six Senate Republicans who may be the subject of recall elections. But the focus, so far, seems to be on Darling and Sens. Dan Kapanke of La Crosse and Randy Hopper of Fond du Lac, both of whom are from districts that are fairly evenly divided between Republicans and Democrats.
Kapanke and Hopper left the Capitol early Friday afternoon and could not be reached for comment
Kliesmet, the CRG leader, said his group would be willing to help any lawmakers targeted for recalls because they support Walker's proposal. But the group has not yet been asked.
His group is focusing its efforts on recalling two Democrats - Sen. Jim Holperin of Eagle River and Bob Wirch of Kenosha. Holperin survived a recall effort in 1990.
For Democrats and labor officials, the clock is ticking.
Insiders say they want to make sure the recall elections are held before Republicans, who control the Assembly and Senate, redraw the boundaries for legislative districts in light of the 2010 census numbers, which are being released this month. In addition, Democrats are desperate to stop Walker from pushing through his agenda, something they could do only if they flip three Senate districts currently held by Republicans.
Walker told the Journal Sentinel he is not concerned about his proposals possibly leading to the ouster of some Republicans.
"In the end, doing the right thing is not only the right thing to do," the governor said in a Friday interview. "I think people respect doing the right thing."
State law prohibits anyone from recalling elected officials until they have held office for at least a year. That means, despite all the talk among Madison protesters, Walker cannot be the subject of a recall election for nearly another year. The same holds true for all the members of the state Assembly and half of the state senators.
One prominent Democrat told No Quarter that national labor leaders are deeply involved in planning the recall elections against Senate Republicans - even though national and local labor officials disputed this.
The Wall Street Journal reported last week that the presidents of dozens of national unions had pledged more than $25 million to counter efforts to scale back bargaining rights in Wisconsin and other states. In addition, Politicosaid last week that the Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm - the part of President Barack Obama's presidential campaign - is helping out with the Wisconsin protests.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/116545518.html
cr8f
Footballguy
Steve Jobs and Gates were both dropouts, but not governors. If you are smooth and have money behind you being elected is not hard these days. These are some of Walkers plans that made the budget much worse.$25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. [Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, 1/7/11]$48 million for private health savings accounts. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA(sounding like a TAX SHELTER) [Government Accountability Office, 4/1/08; Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, 1/11/11]$67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at-best the benefit provided to job creators would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day. [Associated Press, 1/28/01]
daddo39
Footballguy
One of my best friends wife was a teacher in Maryland. His wife was getting her Masters by going to night and summer classes, on the taxpayer tab,according to him.
I am sure the people at HuffPost appreciate your cut and paste job. Do you even understand what you posted?
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KingPrawn
Footballguy
Interesting that you did not include the next line in that article:
There is a lot more at stake here for the Democrats and the unions and helps explain why they have dug in so much.Read the WSJ article and Politico article linked in the article you cited. Good reads.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
WSJ: State Plans Anger Unions
State Cuts Rattle Unions
Labor Says Bargaining Curbs Threaten Ranks; Governors Seek Pension-Cost Fix
By KRIS MAHER And DOUG BELKIN
MADISON, Wis.—As this state and about a dozen others weigh overhauling rules for public- and private-sector unions, labor leaders say they see accelerating declines in membership and curbs on their finances and political clout.
On Monday, presidents of more than a dozen of the nation's biggest unions met to strategize, and pledged more than $25 million to counter efforts to scale back bargaining rights that in many cases would give employees the option of not belonging to a union or paying dues, according to a union official familiar with the matter.
Proposals in Wisconsin and other states have "great ramifications" beyond the damage to union coffers and membership, said Gerald McEntee, president of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the nation's biggest public-sector union.
Unions have told the Obama administration that the state fights could affect the 2012 presidential election by draining unions' political resources, especially in states like Wisconsin and Ohio. "I think it can put him in some [political] danger," Mr. McEntee said of the president.
Unions spent more than $400 million in 2008 to help elect President Barack Obama and other Democrats, with public-sector unions such as AFSCME among the biggest contributors.
A number of governors in both parties are pushing to change union rules in the face of massive budget deficits driven in part by large pension obligations. Sentiment toward public-sector unions has soured amid cuts in state services, anger over taxes and growing concern over states' financial burdens. States are also targeting the healthcare benefits of public employees, another rising budget expense.
Additionally, some labor experts say the economic hardships facing states also provide an opportunity for governors and lawmakers to weaken public-sector unions that have exerted growing political influence in recent years. Even as union membership overall has dropped nationally, it has risen in the public sector. Government workers now represent the largest single share of unionized workers. Thus, new curbs aimed at public sector-workers could, besides reducing the number of total unionized workers, ripple across the whole work force, labor leaders say.
A downward spiral in membership would weaken unions' political influence, particularly in key states such as Ohio and Wisconsin, according to some labor-movement observers. "It could cripple the Democratic Party in 2012," said Nelson Lichtenstein, director of the Center for the Study of Work, Labor and Democracy at the University of California at Santa Barbara.
Union membership fell to 11.9% of U.S. workers last year, down from 20% in the early 1980s. Much of the decline is due to a decades-long slide in private-sector membership which stands at 6.9% of workers.
In the public sector, local government workers, including teachers, police officers and fire fighters, have the highest unionization rate at 42.3%.
In Wisconsin, lawmakers could vote as early as Thursday to take away most bargaining rights for about 170,000 public-sector workers. The proposal from Republican Gov. Scott Walker would limit collective bargaining for most state and local government employees to issues of wages, and exclude pensions and health care. It would also require government workers, who currently contribute little or nothing to their pensions, to contribute 5.8% of their pay to pensions, and pay at least 12.6% of health care premiums, up from an average of 6%.
Mr. Walker said 5,500 state jobs and 5,000 local jobs would be saved under his plan, which would save $30 million in the current budget and $300 million in the two-year budget that begins July 1. Wisconsin faces a $137 million shortfall in the current budget that ends June 30.
Ohio lawmakers are holding hearings this week to limit bargaining rights for about 400,000 public employees under Republican Gov. John Kasich's plan.
More than a dozen other states are considering so-called right-to-work proposals that would give private-sector workers the option of not belonging to a union or paying dues even if the union bargains with an employer on their behalf.
Virginia is already a right-to-work state, but there is an effort to put that provision in the constitution. In Michigan, an initiative has been filed that would eliminate state employee collective bargaining.
Roughly 5,000 union members from around the state converged on Madison, Wisconsin's capital, on Tuesday, chanting "Kill the Bill."
"If this goes through you're going to see this played out across the country. This needs to stop right here," said Ed Lawlor, a 52-year-old elementary-school teacher from Kenosha.
Republican state senator Pam Galloway said union supporters protested outside her home on Sunday, shouting "Galloway, Vote Our Way." But she said she still planned to vote for the governor's proposals.
"We were elected to help the taxpayer, and that is what we will accomplish by voting for this bill," she said.
State Cuts Rattle Unions
Labor Says Bargaining Curbs Threaten Ranks; Governors Seek Pension-Cost Fix
By KRIS MAHER And DOUG BELKIN
MADISON, Wis.—As this state and about a dozen others weigh overhauling rules for public- and private-sector unions, labor leaders say they see accelerating declines in membership and curbs on their finances and political clout.
On Monday, presidents of more than a dozen of the nation's biggest unions met to strategize, and pledged more than $25 million to counter efforts to scale back bargaining rights that in many cases would give employees the option of not belonging to a union or paying dues, according to a union official familiar with the matter.
Proposals in Wisconsin and other states have "great ramifications" beyond the damage to union coffers and membership, said Gerald McEntee, president of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the nation's biggest public-sector union.
Unions have told the Obama administration that the state fights could affect the 2012 presidential election by draining unions' political resources, especially in states like Wisconsin and Ohio. "I think it can put him in some [political] danger," Mr. McEntee said of the president.
Unions spent more than $400 million in 2008 to help elect President Barack Obama and other Democrats, with public-sector unions such as AFSCME among the biggest contributors.
A number of governors in both parties are pushing to change union rules in the face of massive budget deficits driven in part by large pension obligations. Sentiment toward public-sector unions has soured amid cuts in state services, anger over taxes and growing concern over states' financial burdens. States are also targeting the healthcare benefits of public employees, another rising budget expense.
Additionally, some labor experts say the economic hardships facing states also provide an opportunity for governors and lawmakers to weaken public-sector unions that have exerted growing political influence in recent years. Even as union membership overall has dropped nationally, it has risen in the public sector. Government workers now represent the largest single share of unionized workers. Thus, new curbs aimed at public sector-workers could, besides reducing the number of total unionized workers, ripple across the whole work force, labor leaders say.
A downward spiral in membership would weaken unions' political influence, particularly in key states such as Ohio and Wisconsin, according to some labor-movement observers. "It could cripple the Democratic Party in 2012," said Nelson Lichtenstein, director of the Center for the Study of Work, Labor and Democracy at the University of California at Santa Barbara.
Union membership fell to 11.9% of U.S. workers last year, down from 20% in the early 1980s. Much of the decline is due to a decades-long slide in private-sector membership which stands at 6.9% of workers.
In the public sector, local government workers, including teachers, police officers and fire fighters, have the highest unionization rate at 42.3%.
In Wisconsin, lawmakers could vote as early as Thursday to take away most bargaining rights for about 170,000 public-sector workers. The proposal from Republican Gov. Scott Walker would limit collective bargaining for most state and local government employees to issues of wages, and exclude pensions and health care. It would also require government workers, who currently contribute little or nothing to their pensions, to contribute 5.8% of their pay to pensions, and pay at least 12.6% of health care premiums, up from an average of 6%.
Mr. Walker said 5,500 state jobs and 5,000 local jobs would be saved under his plan, which would save $30 million in the current budget and $300 million in the two-year budget that begins July 1. Wisconsin faces a $137 million shortfall in the current budget that ends June 30.
Ohio lawmakers are holding hearings this week to limit bargaining rights for about 400,000 public employees under Republican Gov. John Kasich's plan.
More than a dozen other states are considering so-called right-to-work proposals that would give private-sector workers the option of not belonging to a union or paying dues even if the union bargains with an employer on their behalf.
Virginia is already a right-to-work state, but there is an effort to put that provision in the constitution. In Michigan, an initiative has been filed that would eliminate state employee collective bargaining.
Roughly 5,000 union members from around the state converged on Madison, Wisconsin's capital, on Tuesday, chanting "Kill the Bill."
"If this goes through you're going to see this played out across the country. This needs to stop right here," said Ed Lawlor, a 52-year-old elementary-school teacher from Kenosha.
Republican state senator Pam Galloway said union supporters protested outside her home on Sunday, shouting "Galloway, Vote Our Way." But she said she still planned to vote for the governor's proposals.
"We were elected to help the taxpayer, and that is what we will accomplish by voting for this bill," she said.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
So all but union protection are also reasons why bad employees still exist in the private sector?
Eviloutsider
Footballguy
What makes someone a bad teacher? Is it because they don't like kids? Because they are an old-school by the book teacher? Because they demand too much?It is hard to define "bad" and just when you think you might have, someone will have had that teacher and say that they have positively impacted their lives.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I'd imagine that in our litigious society, some sort of extra protection should be around for a "front line" profession like teaching.
djmich
Footballguy
Is there a bigger Special Interest than unions.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes. Also, union protection is overblown. These stories of NYC teachers passing out drunk in class and not being fired are a huge exception. Where I work, the union would not protect a teacher who was so obviously in violation of the rules. Like I said, we had a teacher caught stealing. When they asked the union what could be done, the response was, "Resign immediately".
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is pretty rare these days. I don't know of any teacher that gets their Masters paid for. Some schools will pay for part of the 60 hours of annual professional development. It all depends on what was negotiated in the contract with each particular district.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
Why dont answer post 871 instead of cutting and pasting huff post stuff... You have a post from a person that has lived there for a long time and knows the problems the state faces and you blow him off to post lies and talking points...Iluvthe80's:
As far as answering about why the bad teachers are still teaching... I spoke with my wife this morning over coffee and she says most of the teachers at her school do care and are good teachers but the bad ones ae still there because of the union and lawsuits that would arise if any action were taken against them... The union will protect all teachers unless they do something that would make national headlines...
That is the beef with unions, protect yourself at the cost of the children...
pantagrapher
Footballguy
From Josh Marshall at TPM:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Teachers in a union can be fired. It takes more work than it does to fire a non-union employee. Some administrators are too lazy or lack the balls to go through the process. I however have seen a teacher let go and am watching 2 teachers headed down that path currently(it is maybe a little too long of a path). I have also seen the other side of the coin: the union protect good teachers from administrators with personal vendettas, board members unhappy about their child's grade, and even I myself was protected from an administrator who was attempting to throw me under the bus to cover their mistake. Unions are far from perfect. I do think they sometimes protect bad teachers at the expense of what is best for the school, but they can also protect good teachers. Like someone else pointed out, determining the good and bad teachers isn't always easy. There are some teachers who surprise me. They seem nasty, cold, and uncaring. Then you talk to some kids who tell you that person is the best math teacher they ever had and it makes you wonder.
timschochet
Footballguy
That's all good. That's what they should be doing, because it's legal and part of the democratic process. What the Dems should not be doing is refusing to vote and leaving the state, because that is illegal and NOT part of the democratic process. If they believe this is a terrible bill, they still have the responsibility to vote on it. And if they lose that vote, then they can take the result to the public and try and win their case through recall or during the next election. But they shouldn't be allowed to subvert the democratic process.
Fishboy
Footballguy
E
Wow, I've been on these boards a long time and read many of your posts. I think this is the first one I agree with. Maybe there is hope for you yet. ;-)
jonessed
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I've been saying this all along. I am sympathetic to the teachers, and I think what the governor is doing is political. But that doesn't change the fact that the Dems are behaving illegally.
cr8f
Footballguy
Fox would repeat false Breaibart style reports? Saying doctors were giving out phony excuses.
It's illegal for teachers to strike?
From last week -
Fox News broke this bulletin about an hour ago. It stems from a video posted by the MacIver Institute Wisconsin alleging that a doctor is signing bogus excuses for teachers protesting in Madison. Because it is illegal for teachers to strike, they called in sick and have been told they will have to produce a valid doctors excuse in order to be excused for their absences.
So isn't it interesting that a right-wing organization would produce a news report saying such excuses are fabricated? Usually, the way this works is that part of the final negotiation also forgives the days missed for protests, by the way, so this is ginned up nonsense from the start.
Here's some information about the MacIver Institute:
In December the domain maciverinstitute.com was privately registered with no one willing to lay public claim to the new org. They also have set up a super duper secret Twitter account that you can’t follow without special permission. When I visited their actual website last night, it was still largely lacking substance. Right now I am having problems accessing it but here is a cached version. The site did give some important information however. It gave a glimpse of some of the people involved with this operation - a motley crew indeed. First you have Scott Jensen who still is awaiting his second criminal felony trial. Then you have Michael Dean, from the wild-eyed First Freedoms Foundation, listed as a contact person. Listed as treasurer for the org is Mark Block, the guy that got the stiffest penalty for political campaign violations ever handed down in the state. This new right wing org is also listed on a national directory and it lists Block as also being a contact for the organization.
Speaking of Mark Block, he posted an interesting entry on his Twitter account on January 30, 2009 at 3:18pm. I’m wondering if that Tweet inadvertently tells us a few more things about this new right wing outfit. It states the following:
“Klauser and Grebe will be calling meeting for Saturday, March 7th. Very important.”
Klauser is of course a long-time disciple of former Governor Tommy Thompson and Grebe is surely the right wing Bradley Foundation sugar daddy Michael Grebe. Michael Grebe and the Bradley Foundation are notoriously partisan and have funded some of the most extreme and narrow right wing outfits in the country.
The doctor on the form they show in the video is James H. Shropshire. A lookup of his political contributions shows $200 to Russ Feingold in 2000 and $200 to the DNC in 1998. Otherwise, nothing.
The MacIver "news wire" has an interesting quote, however:
On Saturday, a group of men and women in lab coats purporting to be doctors were handing out medical excuse notes, without examining the ‘patients.’
“I asked this doctor what he was doing and he told me they were handing out excuses to people who were feeling sick due to emotional, mental or financial distress,” said Christian Hartsock. “They never performed an exam–he asked me how I was feeling today and I said I’m from California and I’m not used to the cold, so he handed me a note.”
Looks like Christian Hartsock is just an ordinary guy, eh? Well, he's not.
Christian Hartsock, 24, is a director, screenwriter, producer and political columnist and activist. He earned his B.A. in Film and Video Production from Brooks Institute in Santa Barbara and currently produces, directs, and writes films including the music video for Guns 'N Roses' "Sorry," as well as the conservative rap music video Victicrat and the short film Sycophant which he wrote and directed, as well as the award-winning feature film The Lives of Better Men which he produced.
Hartsock directed the undercover investigation video Teachers Unions Gone Wild which exposed sleaze and corruption in the New Jersey Education Association, earning the accolades of Governor Chris Christie, produced B-roll for James O'Keefe's and Hannah Giles' investigation videos that brought down ACORN, exposed anti-Americanism at the UN Climate Summit in Cancun and continues to work on investigative journalism videos. He's traveled to Iraq with Move America Forward to document the Iraq war and was profiled in CNN's documentary Right on the Edge a documentary about young conservative activists hosted by Abbie Boudreau. He currently writes for several news and commentary websites, including Big Government and Big Journalism, and is Editor-in-Chief of Political Vanguard.
So we're clear on this, Christian Hartsock, the guy "interviewed" and also the guy who probably produced that first video is the same guy who helped out with the smears of ACORN and New Jersey teachers, and he works for Andrew Breitbart.
Breitbart has bragged about being at the protests in Wisconsin today. Americans for Prosperity is linked to the MacIver Institute. A Breitbart video smear guy is quoted in an article smearing teachers. Figure it out.
It's illegal for teachers to strike?
From last week -
Fox News broke this bulletin about an hour ago. It stems from a video posted by the MacIver Institute Wisconsin alleging that a doctor is signing bogus excuses for teachers protesting in Madison. Because it is illegal for teachers to strike, they called in sick and have been told they will have to produce a valid doctors excuse in order to be excused for their absences.
So isn't it interesting that a right-wing organization would produce a news report saying such excuses are fabricated? Usually, the way this works is that part of the final negotiation also forgives the days missed for protests, by the way, so this is ginned up nonsense from the start.
Here's some information about the MacIver Institute:
In December the domain maciverinstitute.com was privately registered with no one willing to lay public claim to the new org. They also have set up a super duper secret Twitter account that you can’t follow without special permission. When I visited their actual website last night, it was still largely lacking substance. Right now I am having problems accessing it but here is a cached version. The site did give some important information however. It gave a glimpse of some of the people involved with this operation - a motley crew indeed. First you have Scott Jensen who still is awaiting his second criminal felony trial. Then you have Michael Dean, from the wild-eyed First Freedoms Foundation, listed as a contact person. Listed as treasurer for the org is Mark Block, the guy that got the stiffest penalty for political campaign violations ever handed down in the state. This new right wing org is also listed on a national directory and it lists Block as also being a contact for the organization.
Speaking of Mark Block, he posted an interesting entry on his Twitter account on January 30, 2009 at 3:18pm. I’m wondering if that Tweet inadvertently tells us a few more things about this new right wing outfit. It states the following:
“Klauser and Grebe will be calling meeting for Saturday, March 7th. Very important.”
Klauser is of course a long-time disciple of former Governor Tommy Thompson and Grebe is surely the right wing Bradley Foundation sugar daddy Michael Grebe. Michael Grebe and the Bradley Foundation are notoriously partisan and have funded some of the most extreme and narrow right wing outfits in the country.
The doctor on the form they show in the video is James H. Shropshire. A lookup of his political contributions shows $200 to Russ Feingold in 2000 and $200 to the DNC in 1998. Otherwise, nothing.
The MacIver "news wire" has an interesting quote, however:
On Saturday, a group of men and women in lab coats purporting to be doctors were handing out medical excuse notes, without examining the ‘patients.’
“I asked this doctor what he was doing and he told me they were handing out excuses to people who were feeling sick due to emotional, mental or financial distress,” said Christian Hartsock. “They never performed an exam–he asked me how I was feeling today and I said I’m from California and I’m not used to the cold, so he handed me a note.”
Looks like Christian Hartsock is just an ordinary guy, eh? Well, he's not.
Christian Hartsock, 24, is a director, screenwriter, producer and political columnist and activist. He earned his B.A. in Film and Video Production from Brooks Institute in Santa Barbara and currently produces, directs, and writes films including the music video for Guns 'N Roses' "Sorry," as well as the conservative rap music video Victicrat and the short film Sycophant which he wrote and directed, as well as the award-winning feature film The Lives of Better Men which he produced.
Hartsock directed the undercover investigation video Teachers Unions Gone Wild which exposed sleaze and corruption in the New Jersey Education Association, earning the accolades of Governor Chris Christie, produced B-roll for James O'Keefe's and Hannah Giles' investigation videos that brought down ACORN, exposed anti-Americanism at the UN Climate Summit in Cancun and continues to work on investigative journalism videos. He's traveled to Iraq with Move America Forward to document the Iraq war and was profiled in CNN's documentary Right on the Edge a documentary about young conservative activists hosted by Abbie Boudreau. He currently writes for several news and commentary websites, including Big Government and Big Journalism, and is Editor-in-Chief of Political Vanguard.
So we're clear on this, Christian Hartsock, the guy "interviewed" and also the guy who probably produced that first video is the same guy who helped out with the smears of ACORN and New Jersey teachers, and he works for Andrew Breitbart.
Breitbart has bragged about being at the protests in Wisconsin today. Americans for Prosperity is linked to the MacIver Institute. A Breitbart video smear guy is quoted in an article smearing teachers. Figure it out.
cr8f
Footballguy
Now he threatens to fire 12,000 state workers. I didn't see any Hitler signs, but he is acting pretty dictatorial here.
12K State Workers Could Be Fired Without Budget Deal, Wisconsin Governor Warns
Published February 20, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Saturday: Protesters gather down State Street in Madison, Wis., after a rally outside the Wisconsin State Capitol. A few dozen police officers stood between supporters of GOP Gov. Scott Walker on the muddy east lawn of the Capitol and the much larger group of pro-labor demonstrators who surrounded them.
If changes aren't made to the benefit contributions paid by Wisconsin's nearly 300,000 public sector employees, about 10,000-12,000 workers will lose their jobs, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker warned Sunday.
The Republican governor has been targeted by protesters for nearly a week for negotiating a bill now in the state Senate that would require workers to increase their contributions to pensions and health care coverage, would limit collective bargaining rules and tie raises to inflation.
But Walker said while the state enjoys a lower-than-average unemployment rate -- about 7.5 percent compared to 9 percent nationally -- about 5,000-6,000 state workers and 5,000-6,000 local government workers could lose their jobs if they don't accept changes to their benefits plan.
"I don't want a single person laid off in the public nor in the private sector and that's why this is a much better alternative than losing jobs," Walker told "Fox News Sunday."
The budget vote was supposed to take place last week, but was delayed when state Senate Democrats fled to Illinois to avoid having to vote on the plan, which would cost public sector employees about $300 million over two years, or less than 10 percent of the deficit total.
"If we're going to be in this together, (cut) our $3.6 billion budget deficit, it's going to take a whole lot more than just employee contributions when it comes to pensions and health care," Walker said. "But it's got to be a piece of the puzzle because as I saw at the local level, it's like a virus that eats up more and more of the budget if you don't get it under control."
Protesters and Democratic lawmakers have likened Walker to a dictator, and demonstrators protesting the budget bill have waived signs comparing him to ousted Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak and Adolf Hitler.
President Obama, whose group Organizing for America, has bused in some of the nearly 70,000 protesters outside the state capitol on Saturday, last week called the bill "an assault on unions."
Walker said the president should stay focused on fixing the federal budget, which is $1.5 trillion in deficit this year. The president's plan, rolled out last week, proposes $1.65 trillion in deficits next year.
While union workers say they've been blindsided by the governor's plan, which he campaigned on through the midterm election, they also say Walker has unfairly targeted public employees while giving tax breaks to businesses worth about $117 million.
"We expected concessions, but we just didn't think there was a mandate for this. We didn't see him getting rid of collective bargaining," said Gary Steffen, president of the Wisconsin Science Professionals, the union that represents state scientists, including crime lab analysts, biologists, chemists and foresters.
Under the governor's proposal, unions still could represent workers, but they could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized. Only wages below the Consumer Price Index would be subject to collective bargaining, anything higher would have to be approved by referendum.
Walker said he hoped "cooler minds will prevail" and lawmakers will come back to vote.
"Democracy's not about showing up in another state," he said.
12K State Workers Could Be Fired Without Budget Deal, Wisconsin Governor Warns
Published February 20, 2011 | FoxNews.com
Saturday: Protesters gather down State Street in Madison, Wis., after a rally outside the Wisconsin State Capitol. A few dozen police officers stood between supporters of GOP Gov. Scott Walker on the muddy east lawn of the Capitol and the much larger group of pro-labor demonstrators who surrounded them.
If changes aren't made to the benefit contributions paid by Wisconsin's nearly 300,000 public sector employees, about 10,000-12,000 workers will lose their jobs, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker warned Sunday.
The Republican governor has been targeted by protesters for nearly a week for negotiating a bill now in the state Senate that would require workers to increase their contributions to pensions and health care coverage, would limit collective bargaining rules and tie raises to inflation.
But Walker said while the state enjoys a lower-than-average unemployment rate -- about 7.5 percent compared to 9 percent nationally -- about 5,000-6,000 state workers and 5,000-6,000 local government workers could lose their jobs if they don't accept changes to their benefits plan.
"I don't want a single person laid off in the public nor in the private sector and that's why this is a much better alternative than losing jobs," Walker told "Fox News Sunday."
The budget vote was supposed to take place last week, but was delayed when state Senate Democrats fled to Illinois to avoid having to vote on the plan, which would cost public sector employees about $300 million over two years, or less than 10 percent of the deficit total.
"If we're going to be in this together, (cut) our $3.6 billion budget deficit, it's going to take a whole lot more than just employee contributions when it comes to pensions and health care," Walker said. "But it's got to be a piece of the puzzle because as I saw at the local level, it's like a virus that eats up more and more of the budget if you don't get it under control."
Protesters and Democratic lawmakers have likened Walker to a dictator, and demonstrators protesting the budget bill have waived signs comparing him to ousted Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak and Adolf Hitler.
President Obama, whose group Organizing for America, has bused in some of the nearly 70,000 protesters outside the state capitol on Saturday, last week called the bill "an assault on unions."
Walker said the president should stay focused on fixing the federal budget, which is $1.5 trillion in deficit this year. The president's plan, rolled out last week, proposes $1.65 trillion in deficits next year.
While union workers say they've been blindsided by the governor's plan, which he campaigned on through the midterm election, they also say Walker has unfairly targeted public employees while giving tax breaks to businesses worth about $117 million.
"We expected concessions, but we just didn't think there was a mandate for this. We didn't see him getting rid of collective bargaining," said Gary Steffen, president of the Wisconsin Science Professionals, the union that represents state scientists, including crime lab analysts, biologists, chemists and foresters.
Under the governor's proposal, unions still could represent workers, but they could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized. Only wages below the Consumer Price Index would be subject to collective bargaining, anything higher would have to be approved by referendum.
Walker said he hoped "cooler minds will prevail" and lawmakers will come back to vote.
"Democracy's not about showing up in another state," he said.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Hardly unprecedented though. Both Republicans and Democrats in the past have used this tactic to delay a vote and allow public attention and pressure to build; even Abraham Lincoln once jumped out of a window to try to stop a quorum vote from occurring. I have a hard time going so far as to label this un-democratic, when it wouldn't even be an issue if WI happened to be one of roughly half the states with a codified filibuster.
The recall process is an expensive and lengthy process in many states. It is a major effort to collect enough validated signatures and is often subject to litigation. Plus, if someone is removed by recall, who replaces him/her until the next election? Another election may lead to a similar candidate. Even though the recall route is legal, I don't think it is the best strategy for the union. The union should just keep publicizing the substantial apparent concessions that have been made already and how it helps balance the budget. I think recalls should be reserved for egregious misconduct.
Sarnoff
Footballguy
He's a "dictator" for trying to stay within budget. 
Oh the left...
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
How many times does it have to be pointed out that a)Wisconsin had a surplus and b) the workers had already agreed to make substantial concessions before people like you can get that this isn't about staying within the budget at all.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is not the only issue. Don't be dense.
Hitler always a crowd pleaser. There were plenty of Hitler sightings in Wisconsin this week...here are a few. You might not want to click, then you can still make that silly statement.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Actually, it's been demonstrated that WI didn't have a surplus. At the same time, the Governor did pass tax cuts that made the budget gap worse before taking his current stand. So I think it's fair to question if balancing the budget is such a serious concern, why pass tax cuts before trying to remove collective bargaining rights in the interest of closing the budget gap?How many times does it have to be pointed out that a)Wisconsin had a surplus and b) the workers had already agreed to make substantial concessions before people like you can get that this isn't about staying within the budget at all.
That spending was targeted to spur economic development and to create jobs. If successful, it will pay for itself in additional revenues.
Fishboy
Footballguy
That's been pointed out numerous times in this thread. So has the debunking of the "surplus". Wonder how many more times this will get brought up? Never let the facts get in the way of the liberals. They'll keep repeating themselves over and over, true or not.
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timschochet
Footballguy
But it isn't. If politicians want that filibuster law (and personally, I think it's a pretty good idea) then they need to vote on it. The fact that what the Dems have done is unprecedented doesn't make it right. Furthermore, I'm sure there are some around here who agree with me on this but would not agree with me if it were Republicans doing it or if the bill was something they were very much against instead of very much for. But that doesn't matter: either the principle is right or it isn't.
If successful is a big if.And yes, whoever was Governor would be facing a budget shortfall.
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timschochet
Footballguy
You're much better than this cr8f. Putting aside the reference to Hitler, which I repeat is shameful no matter who uses it, the governor is not acting "dictatorial" at all. He is trying to pass a bill through a democratic process by gaining a majority of those elected to vote for it. He is warning (in a far too draconian way, IMO) of the consequences of not passing the bill. He is refusing to compromise, which I don't like, but that's his right. What has any of this to do with dictatorship??I disagree with Walker. Now that the unions have offered a compromise, I am on the side of the unions. But why does everyone have to resort to this sort of extremist rhetoric? This guy is not a dictator. Obama is not a dictator. Walker is not a fascist, and Obama is not a Communist. We need to really tone this stuff down; it does no one any good.
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