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NBA MVP so far


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MVP?  

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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Hollinger has written some good stuff lately about how we shouldn't confuse "most valuable" with "who has the crappiest teammates." voted LeBron.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
To be fair...The top 4 Hornets have missed 14 games.The top 4 Bulls have missed 49 games.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
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Where is the Dirk love? The team was TERRIBLE when he was gone. I know Butler was out as well, but he's not back and they would be on a 14 game win streak right now if it wasn't for a buzzer beater in Denver on the 2nd night of a back-to-back (following a 3-10 stretch). If they keep their strong play up through the rest of the year, he'll get more love. Outside of the Lakers twice and the Spurs at home, they don't have a game in the 2nd half they won't be favored in.

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Where is the Dirk love? The team was TERRIBLE when he was gone. I know Butler was out as well, but he's not back and they would be on a 14 game win streak right now if it wasn't for a buzzer beater in Denver on the 2nd night of a back-to-back (following a 3-10 stretch). If they keep their strong play up through the rest of the year, he'll get more love. Outside of the Lakers twice and the Spurs at home, they don't have a game in the 2nd half they won't be favored in.

I think Dirk is absolutely having the most under-rated season this year. With that said, I still voted for Rose because the way he's elevated his game this season has been incredible, and he's carrying that team.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
The point wasn't about those four playing together. It was a more general point about the quality of their supporting casts. Does anyone really think that the guys getting major minutes for the Hornets other than Paul are anywhere close to the guys getting major minutes for the Bulls other than Rose, even when you factor in injuries? Yet Paul has dragged that weaker supporting cast to a record that, when you consider strength of schedule, may actually be better than the Bulls' record. I know how crazy that sounds, but look at their respective divisions. The difference is remarkable. And here's their SOS calculations generally.

ETA: I voted LeBron.

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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

How is Rose more valuable than Paul to his team? Lets say you switched Paul and Rose with an starting PG (Lets say Mike Conley) how many wins would the Bulls and Hornets have with 82 games of Mike Conley production? I'm guessing the Bulls would still be a playoff team winning 35 or so games, the Hornets would be lucky to get 20. The only decent players Paul has (we'll define decent as NBA rotation level guys - so the top 9 guys on an average team) are Okafor (average NBA starting center), David West (slightly above average starting PF), Ariza (decent bench swingman) and maybe Marcus Thornton (decent 4th guard). The Bulls have Noah (top 5ish center), Boozer (top 10 PF), Deng (top 10 SF), Korver (average 3rd swingman), Brewer (slightly above average 3rd Swingman), Gibson (Good 3rd big), Thomas (borderline rotation guy, average 4th big). The talent Rose has around him>>>>>>>>>Paul's surrounding talent.I voted for Lebron, hes having the best year in the NBA, hes the best player in the NBA and could very well be the number 1 seed in the east.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
The point wasn't about those four playing together. It was a more general point about the quality of their supporting casts. Does anyone really think that the guys getting major minutes for the Hornets other than Paul are anywhere close to the guys getting major minutes for the Bulls other than Rose, even when you factor in injuries? Yet Paul has dragged that weaker supporting cast to a record that, when you consider strength of schedule, may actually be better than the Bulls' record. I know how crazy that sounds, but look at their respective divisions. The difference is remarkable. And here's their SOS calculations generally.

ETA: I voted LeBron.

Who cares how good a player is if hes not on the court? :shrug:
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

How is Rose more valuable than Paul to his team? Lets say you switched Paul and Rose with an starting PG (Lets say Mike Conley) how many wins would the Bulls and Hornets have with 82 games of Mike Conley production? I'm guessing the Bulls would still be a playoff team winning 35 or so games, the Hornets would be lucky to get 20. The only decent players Paul has (we'll define decent as NBA rotation level guys - so the top 9 guys on an average team) are Okafor (average NBA starting center), David West (slightly above average starting PF), Ariza (decent bench swingman) and maybe Marcus Thornton (decent 4th guard). The Bulls have Noah (top 5ish center), Boozer (top 10 PF), Deng (top 10 SF), Korver (average 3rd swingman), Brewer (slightly above average 3rd Swingman), Gibson (Good 3rd big), Thomas (borderline rotation guy, average 4th big). The talent Rose has around him>>>>>>>>>Paul's surrounding talent.I voted for Lebron, hes having the best year in the NBA, hes the best player in the NBA and could very well be the number 1 seed in the east.
Why do you keep insisting on listing both Noah and Boozer when the two have played a handful of games together?
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
The point wasn't about those four playing together. It was a more general point about the quality of their supporting casts. Does anyone really think that the guys getting major minutes for the Hornets other than Paul are anywhere close to the guys getting major minutes for the Bulls other than Rose, even when you factor in injuries? Yet Paul has dragged that weaker supporting cast to a record that, when you consider strength of schedule, may actually be better than the Bulls' record. I know how crazy that sounds, but look at their respective divisions. The difference is remarkable. And here's their SOS calculations generally.

ETA: I voted LeBron.

The MVP at this point doesn't depend on the general quality of their supporting casts. It depends on the actual quality of their supporting casts in the first half of the season.

The Bulls have had Deng and one of Boozer/Noah almost the entire first half. So your comparison of the top 3 made little sense. Now without you using any specifics, Paul has the worst supporting cast despite having a far healthier team so far? Is the Hornets team after the top 3 (since the games missed by the two big Bulls men) greater or less than Kurt Thomas, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, and C.J. Watson.

Your points about the Hornets having a harder road than the Bulls is true. The Hornets have had a tougher schedule.

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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
And Noah was playing with his injury the 9 games he played with Boozer.
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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
The point wasn't about those four playing together. It was a more general point about the quality of their supporting casts. Does anyone really think that the guys getting major minutes for the Hornets other than Paul are anywhere close to the guys getting major minutes for the Bulls other than Rose, even when you factor in injuries? Yet Paul has dragged that weaker supporting cast to a record that, when you consider strength of schedule, may actually be better than the Bulls' record. I know how crazy that sounds, but look at their respective divisions. The difference is remarkable. And here's their SOS calculations generally.

ETA: I voted LeBron.

Who cares how good a player is if hes not on the court? :goodposting:
What are you talking about? Paul has played every game.

Are you still talking about Noah and Boozer? If so, are you claiming that once injuries are accounted for, the Bulls team minus Rose (and occasionally minus Noah or Boozer) and the Hornets team minus Paul are equals? If that's what you're saying, I disagree. If not, what point are you making?

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this comes down to how you define MVP. if its who is the best players then its lebron, if its who is most valuable to his team then its rose.

Can you explain why you say Rose over Paul? Paul's team is only five games behind Rose despite the fact that Paul's team is in the toughest division in the NBA and Rose's team is in the weakest. Also, Boozer/Deng Noah >>>> West/Okafor/Ariza. Also also, Paul comes out pretty far ahead of Rose from virtually very statistical angle. If you're going for the "PG without whom the team would fall apart" as your MVP, it has to be Paul.
Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah have started 9 out of 54 games.
And Noah was playing with his injury the 9 games he played with Boozer.
And af few of those, Boozer was still trying to get back into form. Those first 2 games, he played 21 minutes a piece and didn't look good. 5 and 12 points, with 2 boards in each. He basically got benched against the Cavs and played 21 minutes there in a game where he got 4 points and 3 boards, and wasn't much better against the Lakers in the following game.
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No love for KD?

One of my favorite players, but Westbrook has been every bit as important to their success this season.
Westbrook has been great but where are the Thunder without him? I can't see them winning more than 20-25 games at this point without KD.
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Are you still talking about Noah and Boozer? If so, are you claiming that once injuries are accounted for, the Bulls team minus Rose (and occasionally minus Noah or Boozer) and the Hornets team minus Paul are equals? If not, what point are you making?

The point is, the judgment most people are making is based on actual games played, not hypothetical games played.
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No love for KD?

One of my favorite players, but Westbrook has been every bit as important to their success this season.
Westbrook has been great but where are the Thunder without him? I can't see them winning more than 20-25 games at this point without KD.
They are 3-1 without Durant this year with all those games being on the road.
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i give it to rose and i would also give TT COY to this point. he's every bit as responsible for the improvement in the bulls as Rose is.

:rolleyes: I'd credit him with a lot of the improvement in Rose's all around game. Under Vinny, the guy didn't give a crap about defense. Unlike what guys like Kev would suggest, I'm not going to add Rose to the All NBA Defensive team at this point or anything but the guy has made INCREDIBLE strides in that area thanks to TT and just continues to improve.
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Are you still talking about Noah and Boozer? If so, are you claiming that once injuries are accounted for, the Bulls team minus Rose (and occasionally minus Noah or Boozer) and the Hornets team minus Paul are equals? If not, what point are you making?

The point is, the judgment most people are making is based on actual games played, not hypothetical games played.
Right. So the question is, are the Bulls other than Rose based on actual games played equal to or worse than the Hornets other than Paul based on actual games played? If you say yes, I disagree. If you say no, how can you justify voting Rose over Paul?For what it's worth, the next seven Hornets after Paul have an aggregate 20.8 Win Shares. The next seven Bulls after Rose have an aggregate 26.3 Win Shares. Win Shares obviously account for injuries, since you don't contribute to wins when you're hurt. I assume I don't even have to tell you how Rose and Paul compare w/r/t Win Shares.
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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

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Where is the Dirk love? The team was TERRIBLE when he was gone. I know Butler was out as well, but he's not back and they would be on a 14 game win streak right now if it wasn't for a buzzer beater in Denver on the 2nd night of a back-to-back (following a 3-10 stretch). If they keep their strong play up through the rest of the year, he'll get more love. Outside of the Lakers twice and the Spurs at home, they don't have a game in the 2nd half they won't be favored in.

I think Dirk is absolutely having the most under-rated season this year. With that said, I still voted for Rose because the way he's elevated his game this season has been incredible, and he's carrying that team.
I love me some Dirk, but his numbers are actually below his career averages (aside from FG%) this season; mostly due to the fact he's averaging 34 minutes a game; lowest since his rookie season. The injury slowed him down a bit and the emergence of Chandler has let Carslile rest him more.I'd go Lebron #1, Rose #2 and Wade #3... and for the record, I'm a Mavs fan so it makes me sick to have James and Wade in the top 3, but you just can't deny their combo stats (points/rebounds/assists).
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Boozer and West are very comparable, so are Deng and Ariza, eff the stats.

I'm not saying Rose is better than Paul, but this year Rose is more deserving of MVP.

You really want to go with this?

Tell you what: if you want, you can delete your post, and then I'll delete my post quoting it, and then it will be like you never said it. An offer of amnesty.

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Boozer and West are very comparable, so are Deng and Ariza, eff the stats.

I'm not saying Rose is better than Paul, but this year Rose is more deserving of MVP.

You really want to go with this?

Tell you what: if you want, you can delete your post, and then I'll delete my post quoting it, and then it will be like you never said it. An offer of amnesty.

I'd rather have Deng but they are very comparable. Both are no better than 4th options on championship teams who play good D. Using that as an example of Paul doing more with less is way off. Watch Dengs numbers when Noah comes back.
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Right. So the question is, are the Bulls other than Rose based on actual games played equal to or worse than the Hornets other than Paul based on actual games played? If you say yes, I disagree. If you say no, how can you justify voting Rose over Paul?

For what it's worth, the next seven Hornets after Paul have an aggregate 20.8 Win Shares. The next seven Bulls after Rose have an aggregate 26.3 Win Shares. Win Shares obviously account for injuries, since you don't contribute to wins when you're hurt. I assume I don't even have to tell you how Rose and Paul compare w/r/t Win Shares.

I'd say the difference is nearly inconsequential, so we disagree. The Bulls have more wins, they have a better winning percentage against top 10 teams. Since there isn't a huge discrepancy between their numbers I have to go with Rose at this point.
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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
Are you saying there is nothing LeBron could do to win the MVP?
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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
Are you saying there is nothing LeBron could do to win the MVP?
Voting for LeBron for MVP is boring. We did this with Jordan already, let us have some fun.
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Boozer and West are very comparable, so are Deng and Ariza, eff the stats.

I'm not saying Rose is better than Paul, but this year Rose is more deserving of MVP.

You really want to go with this?

Tell you what: if you want, you can delete your post, and then I'll delete my post quoting it, and then it will be like you never said it. An offer of amnesty.

I'd rather have Deng but they are very comparable. Both are no better than 4th options on championship teams who play good D. Using that as an example of Paul doing more with less is way off. Watch Dengs numbers when Noah comes back.
Ariza is a poor offensive player who thinks he is an all star, making him a huge liability on offense because hes taking 5 shots more a game than he should. Ariza should be the teams 5th option offensively when hes on the court, but the defensive stopper, hes really more of a 7th/8th man sort of talent but should start (and play 25 minutes a game or so tops) because of his defense. Deng on the other hand, is more of a 3rd option on offense and the defensive stopper. Maybe I'm a little biased on Deng (I landed him in the 2nd round in our build a franchise) and might over value him, and also biased on Ariza, I always though he was way overrated in LA and Hou, but I don't think they are even close to similar talents. There are probably 100 guys between Ariza and Deng in terms of talent in the NBA.

To put it more simply, Deng is the 3rd/4th best player on a championship team while Ariza is probably more like 7th/8th.

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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
Are you saying there is nothing LeBron could do to win the MVP?
Voting for LeBron for MVP is boring. We did this with Jordan already, let us have some fun.
:shrug: I guess so. This is why little stock should be put in MVPs, All-Star appearances, All-NBA team, etc. The play on the floor probably matters about the same as the story and market of the player.
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Boozer and West are very comparable, so are Deng and Ariza, eff the stats.

I'm not saying Rose is better than Paul, but this year Rose is more deserving of MVP.

You really want to go with this?

Tell you what: if you want, you can delete your post, and then I'll delete my post quoting it, and then it will be like you never said it. An offer of amnesty.

I'd rather have Deng but they are very comparable. Both are no better than 4th options on championship teams who play good D. Using that as an example of Paul doing more with less is way off. Watch Dengs numbers when Noah comes back.
I know how much you hate advanced stats, so just to be clear:

Deng is shooting .455 from the field, .344 from three, and .733 from the line. His career numbers are .471/.323/.763. He's got 6+ rebounds and 2+ assist per game both this season and for his career.

Ariza is shooting .391 from the field, .291 from three, and .702 from the line. His career numbers are .434/.314/.664. He has 5.5 rebounds per game and 2.1 assists per game, 4.3 and 1.8 for is career.

You believe these two players are "very comparable."

By the way ... kudos on "eff the stats." That's the best argument I've ever heard. The Wizards and Lakers are very comparable teams, both this season and historically. Eff the stats. Prove me wrong.

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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
Are you saying there is nothing LeBron could do to win the MVP?
LeBron could win more games. The Heat haven't played up to expectations. If the Heat finish on a tear well ahead of Bulls, my vote would likely be for LeBron.
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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

I wonder what the vote would be like, hypothetically, if Lebron had never won an MVP and didn't have The Decision? 95% for Lebron with the other 5% to uber Bull/Laker/whatever homers?

This is absolutely ridiculous, Lebron should be winning this in a landslide but people don't like him and are bored with him winning MVPs.

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Right. So the question is, are the Bulls other than Rose based on actual games played equal to or worse than the Hornets other than Paul based on actual games played? If you say yes, I disagree. If you say no, how can you justify voting Rose over Paul?

For what it's worth, the next seven Hornets after Paul have an aggregate 20.8 Win Shares. The next seven Bulls after Rose have an aggregate 26.3 Win Shares. Win Shares obviously account for injuries, since you don't contribute to wins when you're hurt. I assume I don't even have to tell you how Rose and Paul compare w/r/t Win Shares.

I'd say the difference is nearly inconsequential, so we disagree. The Bulls have more wins, they have a better winning percentage against top 10 teams. Since there isn't a huge discrepancy between their numbers I have to go with Rose at this point.

You think a difference of 5.5 win shares, around 25%, is inconsequential?

Are we sure JMon didn't steal Groovus' login and password?

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Rose voters, what would LeBron have to do to win the MVP in your minds?

Statistically, this isn't close. LeBron is pretty much better across the board. His team has the better record and since that awful start (9-8) they've been dominating.

Comparison of this years stats

LeBron is far better in PER, EFG%, TS%, TRB%, ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS and WS/48.

LeBron has Wade and Bosh as teammates. The Heat need to be much more than 2 games ahead in the standings than the Bulls. This isn't soley a stat thing, everyone knows LeBron is the better player.
Are you saying there is nothing LeBron could do to win the MVP?
LeBron could win more games. The Heat haven't played up to expectations. If the Heat finish on a tear well ahead of Bulls, my vote would likely be for LeBron.
32-8 in their last 40 games is pretty good. They got off to a rough start but have been dominating since with only the Spurs being better in that time.
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This is why little stock should be put in MVPs, All-Star appearances, All-NBA team, etc. The play on the floor probably matters about the same as the story and market of the player.

I don't put stock in any of that stuff. In the end 2 things matter to me - are they fun to watch, do they win. All the rest may make for entertaining discussions, but it's basically meaningless, subjective fluff (except for the players who get paid on the basis of such things). Guys who get all angstfully wrapped up in winning arguments about advanced stats, etc. - I guess it's fun for them somehow, but after a certain point it seems pretty neurotic to me.
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