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NBA MVP so far


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MVP?  

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LeBron >>> Rose is pretty much every single aspect of the game and his team has a better record. Nothing to see here...

heat are 1-6 vs good teams while the bulls have beaten each of the good teams.top teams VS each otherspurs - 5-2Celtics - 7-2Heat - 1-6Bulls - 5-4Lakers- 2-5Heat are good when they play bad teams, but they cant beat the good teams. I would rather be 2 games behind at all-star break and know I can beat the good teams while missing the #2 best player (Noah/Boozer)
Yes. But what does that have to do with the MVP?
Your the one that brought up that his team has a better record, and I pointed out that the heat cant beat a good team, unlike the bulls
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It's Rose right now. No need to come out of the closet with stats no one cares about at this point. TIABetter question is probably who is 2nd at the present time.

I think Dirk is probably second.
I have Kobe 2nd myself. Followed by Dirk & Howard. JMO Rose is the front runner right now.
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of.

Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

:goodposting:
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Your mom is complete trash.
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

That certainly is the best case against Rose. However, if not Rose, then who?LeBron has no chance. Howard won't get it if the Magic are a 4 seed. Expectations matter and they are underperforming. The Hornets are quickly becoming irrelevant nixing Chris Paul's chances. There doesn't seem to be groundswell behind Dirk and the fact that he has already won one hurts him with the voters. Maybe Kobe will rise up the ranks if the Lakers keep on winning.Rose winning the MVP would have a lot to do with a lack of better qualified candidates. (For this reason, I think he'll win.)Another point about Rose: I think the voters try to incorporate intangibles like leadership (vocal or by example) in their voting. This is something that helps Rose despite his weaknesses in some of the advances stats.
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8 votes for Howard huh? What's this guy have to do?

win more often
he's won plenty the past 2 years and the Magic are on pace for 50+ wins this year. I kinda doubt that's the problem.
Of course that's the problem this year. If the Magic were on pace for 60 wins, Howard would be the frontrunner.(Something else Howard could do, however, is hit his free throws.)
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

That certainly is the best case against Rose. However, if not Rose, then who?LeBron has no chance. Howard won't get it if the Magic are a 4 seed. Expectations matter and they are underperforming. The Hornets are quickly becoming irrelevant nixing Chris Paul's chances. There doesn't seem to be groundswell behind Dirk and the fact that he has already won one hurts him with the voters. Maybe Kobe will rise up the ranks if the Lakers keep on winning.Rose winning the MVP would have a lot to do with a lack of better qualified candidates. (For this reason, I think he'll win.)Another point about Rose: I think the voters try to incorporate intangibles like leadership (vocal or by example) in their voting. This is something that helps Rose despite his weaknesses in some of the advances stats.
Those pesky advanced stats like shooting percentage (44.3%, 32.8 3-point%), assists (8.1), turnovers (3.6) and assist/turnover (2.27). He does some special things on the court, but its not advanced stats that should be holding him back, its his general inefficiency.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

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Derrick Rose is too big too strong, too fast, too good for anyone who tries to guard him

Same could be said for Lebron, Wade, Howard, Williams, Westbrook, Amare, Griffin, Melo.....I don't think that is a very good measure of MVP.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
He is a worthy candidate, but he is not worthy of winning.
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I'd like to make a case for Dirk.

Best record in the NBA with him.

2-7 without him.

Therefore ---> he is most valuable.

Also, Dallas needs it's first multi-time MVP athlete (I don't believe any Dallas athletes have done so)

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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
I didn't say hes not a worthy candidate, but I also think him getting the MVP will be worse than the Nash MVPs, and equally as bad as the Iverson selection.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
I didn't say hes not a worthy candidate, but I also think him getting the MVP will be worse than the Nash MVPs, and equally as bad as the Iverson selection.
Anyone else noticing a trend here?
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
I didn't say hes not a worthy candidate, but I also think him getting the MVP will be worse than the Nash MVPs, and equally as bad as the Iverson selection.
Anyone else noticing a trend here?
Yes, he thinks it's an award for the best player in the NBA. It's not.
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
I didn't say hes not a worthy candidate, but I also think him getting the MVP will be worse than the Nash MVPs, and equally as bad as the Iverson selection.
Of course you do :lmao:
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Rose is winning the big games on TV. I think this award could go to 4 guys this season (LBJ, Howard, Dirk, Rose) but I think Rose will win it. Dirk isn't getting enough attention and I think that the Heat's recent struggles have sunk James's candidacy. That said, if the Lakers keep playing well then I think there is an opening for Kobe.

I think that is probably the driving force for his MVP candidacy combined with the knob slobbering from ESPN.
I can appreciate you favor someone else in this debate, but I think it would be very difficult to argue that he is not a worthy candidate.
I didn't say hes not a worthy candidate, but I also think him getting the MVP will be worse than the Nash MVPs, and equally as bad as the Iverson selection.
Anyone else noticing a trend here?
Yes, he thinks it's an award for the best player in the NBA. It's not.
Maybe not, but like Voice of Reason pointed out earlier, he is an averagish defender on the best defensive team in the NBA, and a good offensive player on an average offensive team (16th in efficiency). It doesn't seem to me that he is greatly improving that team.

On top of that, his offense is overrated. He makes spectacular plays that no other PG can, and on pure talent is probably a top 5 talent, but he has not reached his potential yet. His biggest asset offensively is his scoring, but he does it at an efficiency that is BELOW league average. The two things that typically are required of PGs (passing and defending) he doesn't do all that well either, he has an assist ratio of 23.3 (good for 46th among PGs), and averages 8.1 apg (10th among PGs, 13th among starting PGs in ap36). Plus, he is 15th in win shares per 48 and 12th in PER. Statistically, there is really no argument for him at all. He does effect the game more than stats can show, but not enough to to deserve MVP.

Feel free to point out the TEAM's record to show how good he is, or how well he has played in certain games. That seems to be the argument for him getting the MVP.

Rose is getting far too much credit for the team's success while Tom Thibodeau is getting far too little.

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Maybe not, but like Voice of Reason pointed out earlier, he is an averagish defender on the best defensive team in the NBA, and a good offensive player on an average offensive team (16th in efficiency). It doesn't seem to me that he is greatly improving that team.On top of that, his offense is overrated. He makes spectacular plays that no other PG can, and on pure talent is probably a top 5 talent, but he has not reached his potential yet. His biggest asset offensively is his scoring, but he does it at an efficiency that is BELOW league average. The two things that typically are required of PGs (passing and defending) he doesn't do all that well either, he has an assist ratio of 23.3 (good for 46th among PGs), and averages 8.1 apg (10th among PGs, 13th among starting PGs in ap36). Plus, he is 15th in win shares per 48 and 12th in PER. Statistically, there is really no argument for him at all. He does effect the game more than stats can show, but not enough to to deserve MVP.Feel free to point out the TEAM's record to show how good he is, or how well he has played in certain games. That seems to be the argument for him getting the MVP.Rose is getting far too much credit for the team's success while Tom Thibodeau is getting far too little.

There is a reason why the award is voted on and isn't the result of some statistical metric like some of you stat geeks would like.So many things effect a basketball game that aren't on the stat sheet it isn't even funny. Winshares and PER and whatever else they come up with will never be able to fully explain the value of a player. Unless you can crawl inside the head of the opponents to know what they see and how it effects them during a game, you cannot calculate a player's value with numbers.As for the other guys: LeBron isn't leading that team like he should be and they are too talented to be struggling like they are. Howard is a beast, but his FT shooting absolutely is killing them and despite his high FG%, he isn't even their go to guy when they need a basket. Kobe has been dogging it too much this year and just looks too slow to be dominant when he has to. Dirk is the only other guy I think is worthy, but he just isn't as flashy and is losing out simply on style points.
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Your mom is complete trash.
didn't know jj reddick frequented the ffa.
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Rose is getting far too much credit for the team's success while Tom Thibodeau is getting far too little.

Wrong, Thibs will be Coach of the Year. I think it is generally understood league wide that he is the reason this team has over achieved on the defensive end this year.
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Although he's not likely to win the award, Howard is the MVP this year. He may not be their go to guy at the end of the game, but that's just 1 possession. Per 36 minutes, Howard scores 22.4 points on 21.4 possession (13.4 shots + 11.1 FTs + 3.3 turnovers) vs Rose's 23.5 pts on 25.3 possession (19.3 shots + 5.9 FTs + 3.4 turnovers.) Howard's 3.9 OREB and 1.2 assists are at least comparable to Rose's 0.9 OREB and 7.7 assists. The advantage for Rose on offense, if there is one, in no way is greater than the advantage Howard has over Rose on the defensive end.

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Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Agreed - if the voters only considered most valuable to ones team, I'm pretty sure he'd win it in a landslide.
I dont feel like checking, but I thought I heard that Orlando's defense efficiency is actually better when Dwight Howard is out of the game. I am posting this more as a numbers don't tell you everything thing rather than say Howard is overrated defensively
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Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Agreed - if the voters only considered most valuable to ones team, I'm pretty sure he'd win it in a landslide.
I dont feel like checking, but I thought I heard that Orlando's defense efficiency is actually better when Dwight Howard is out of the game. I am posting this more as a numbers don't tell you everything thing rather than say Howard is overrated defensively
If Portland could hit a three, they'd be up 20 points early in the 2nd half. As it stands they are up 13 and having their way with Orlando.No Dwight tonight. Do defense.
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Rose is getting far too much credit for the team's success while Tom Thibodeau is getting far too little.

Wrong, Thibs will be Coach of the Year. I think it is generally understood league wide that he is the reason this team has over achieved on the defensive end this year.
I hope so, and I absolutely think he deserves it, but I have a feeling its going to go to Popovich.
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Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Agreed - if the voters only considered most valuable to ones team, I'm pretty sure he'd win it in a landslide.
I dont feel like checking, but I thought I heard that Orlando's defense efficiency is actually better when Dwight Howard is out of the game. I am posting this more as a numbers don't tell you everything thing rather than say Howard is overrated defensively
opponents are 103.8 points per 100 possesions on the court, 103.1 ppp off the floor. So, yes they are slightly better defensively when Howard is not on the floor.This isn't factored for personnel, however. Howard plays against starters and Howard's backups play against backups, mostly.
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Rose is overrated right now. Chicago's success is more of a product of their league leading defense, which Rose is a minor part of, than their league average offense, which Rose is a monster part of. Orlando is complete trash without Dwight Howard on both ends of the floor.

Dwight Howard isn't the MVP. Period. Maybe when he grows up.----------Thibodeau is a lock for Coach of the Year IMO. Rose is leading MVP race, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Bryant take it.
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Maybe when he grows up.

:confused:
The number of technicals hurts him.Rose and Dirk don't have that. They don't let their emotions get themselves suspended.
:yes:Dwight has zero chance of being MVP this year. And he never will be MVP (ever) if he's getting suspended for excessive technicals.
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Maybe when he grows up.

:confused:
The number of technicals hurts him.Rose and Dirk don't have that. They don't let their emotions get themselves suspended.
:yes:Dwight has zero chance of being MVP this year. And he never will be MVP (ever) if he's getting suspended for excessive technicals.
:lmao: Based on what exactly? MVP voters won't dare vote for somebody who was suspended one game?
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I'd be willing to bet he is suspended at least one more time, and perhaps twice or more. Especially when playoff pressure rolls around.

Techs reset when playoff start. The playoffs won't be an issue.
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DirkRoseManuAs usual the Texas teams getting zero attention.

Dirk missed some games, and his numbers are slightly down for him. He's been incredibly efficient though. Rose is asked to do more by his team, so he's going to get the benefit. Big market also helps obviously, but it's not as if Dallas is Green Bay, Wisconsin.
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