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Personal Finance Advice and Education! (2 Viewers)

Lol, so I get a letter from the IRS that is like you owe us 35k for a severe underpay in 2019.  I was like WTF.  Called my CPA, he was shuked, didn't understand wtf was up.  Kicked around ideas for a couple weeks pointing to a stock option that got a withholding out of my employer.  Still couldn't square it.

Call the IRS, they say, oops our bad no worries.  closed.  

So yeah. 


My girlfriend just went through this.  Her old employer switched payroll software mid-year last year, and apparently they ended up double-reporting income to the IRS.  So dozens of employees got letters saying they owed money.  Good times.

 
Lol, so I get a letter from the IRS that is like you owe us 35k for a severe underpay in 2019.  I was like WTF.  Called my CPA, he was shuked, didn't understand wtf was up.  Kicked around ideas for a couple weeks pointing to a stock option that got a withholding out of my employer.  Still couldn't square it.

Call the IRS, they say, oops our bad no worries.  closed.  

So yeah. 
That's a mental anguish claim. I'd freak.  Most of the time this happens when the IRS misses a tax basis and puts it at zero, resulting in a big cap gains bill.

------

In other news, today every light lit up green on my FI meter.  Sitting at 43x expenses this year.  That will last until the market tanks tomorrow and then again when I make my charitable contributions for the year.  But, yeah, it's been a good year so far.

Apologies in advance for tanking the market by saying that.

 
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That's a mental anguish claim. I'd freak.  Most of the time this happens when the IRS misses a tax basis and puts it at zero, resulting in a big cap gains bill.


Yeah, more or less it was an exercise of restricted stock as part of compensation.  The company took the money out as withholding and provided FMV to the IRS.  This also generated a 1099 with this, but instead of listing it as withholding it was other.  But they flowed this thru to my W2 in "V" which usually should in theory make the basis of this moot, yet here I was.  I had a CPA look at it as the way they did the math was over my head, I'm wondering if I end up getting a bill for those conversations.

 
------

In other news, today every light lit up green on my FI meter.  Sitting at 43x expenses this year.  That will last until the market tanks tomorrow and then again when I make my charitable contributions for the year.  But, yeah, it's been a good year so far.

Apologies in advance for tanking the market by saying that.
Awesome

Is that due to spending less this year than you plan on in the future, great market gains, or both?

If we were at that level and spending like we plan to in retirement I think I’d finally hang it up and move on to phase 4 of my life. (Not quite full retirement but not the current job)

 
Awesome

Is that due to spending less this year than you plan on in the future, great market gains, or both?

If we were at that level and spending like we plan to in retirement I think I’d finally hang it up and move on to phase 4 of my life. (Not quite full retirement but not the current job)
Getting the mortgage off the bill list does wonderful things for cash flow needs (spending otherwise has been pretty consistent). Selling the beach house was a nice jolt to the accounts and the markets have been lovely lately.

Not sure what I want to do from here, to be honest.  My life is pretty much work, home, kids.  So losing work would crush my main social outlet (as sad as that is, it's what happens when you do 50+ hours/week for 20 years at the same place).  My last big work goal - writing a book on design of our work product (very specific stuff, but desperately needed) is underway.

After that I need to gear down and do stuff while I'm healthy, though whether that means letting go of work or just taking on way less is unknown.  The GDMBR calls and I'm not getting any younger.

 
Getting the mortgage off the bill list does wonderful things for cash flow needs (spending otherwise has been pretty consistent). Selling the beach house was a nice jolt to the accounts and the markets have been lovely lately.

Not sure what I want to do from here, to be honest.  My life is pretty much work, home, kids.  So losing work would crush my main social outlet (as sad as that is, it's what happens when you do 50+ hours/week for 20 years at the same place).  My last big work goal - writing a book on design of our work product (very specific stuff, but desperately needed) is underway.

After that I need to gear down and do stuff while I'm healthy, though whether that means letting go of work or just taking on way less is unknown.  The GDMBR calls and I'm not getting any younger.
What about biking?

 
Figured I'd ask you guys.

I changed positions at my job and they put me in the wrong level (based on union contract) so I'm getting paid roughly $7 more per hour than I should be getting (I would hit this level in 4 years). So about an extra $300 after taxes each paycheck. I sent 1 email to my HR rep and he said he'll talk to his supervisor.... That was 5 months ago. 

So I just been saving the money whenever they ask for it back. This is a large county system so who knows when that'll be. I have pension, max my deferred comp, and ROTH IRA.

What should I do with this money? Get them to fix it or invest in index fund, crypto, or some something like uwmc that's pays a dividend?

Also, don't I get screwed tax wise if they ask for this back later?

 
Transferring my TSP to IRAs (both traditional and Roth), even though I know it’s processing it’s a bit disconcerting to see more money than I make in a few years disappear overnight 👻
:bag:  I wasn’t sure how they would process the portion in my traditional TSP which is tax free (combat zone contribution). So today my wife brings the Mail in and there’s something from the treasury dept. turns out they send a check for the amount. It’s not a lot but it was a surprise.  It took a minute to convince the wife that we weren’t going to use it to remodel the bathroom. :toilet:

 
We have this.  Large walk in with 2 shower heads on the sides, rainhead on top, + a handheld.  Steam shower with a bench too.  Love it
Similar here. 12” smart TV with Bluetooth enabled, 5kW steam engine, rain shower plus a shower head on two walls, foot rinse plus handheld wand with 15 settings, bench with heated seat, and 5 speaker 3-D stereo integrated. It’s life changing 

 
Similar here. 12” smart TV with Bluetooth enabled, 5kW steam engine, rain shower plus a shower head on two walls, foot rinse plus handheld wand with 15 settings, bench with heated seat, and 5 speaker 3-D stereo integrated. It’s life changing 
Are you a raisin?

 
Similar here. 12” smart TV with Bluetooth enabled, 5kW steam engine, rain shower plus a shower head on two walls, foot rinse plus handheld wand with 15 settings, bench with heated seat, and 5 speaker 3-D stereo integrated. It’s life changing 
####. We spend way too much time in the shower now. 

 
Figured I'd ask you guys.

I changed positions at my job and they put me in the wrong level (based on union contract) so I'm getting paid roughly $7 more per hour than I should be getting (I would hit this level in 4 years). So about an extra $300 after taxes each paycheck. I sent 1 email to my HR rep and he said he'll talk to his supervisor.... That was 5 months ago. 

So I just been saving the money whenever they ask for it back. This is a large county system so who knows when that'll be. I have pension, max my deferred comp, and ROTH IRA.

What should I do with this money? Get them to fix it or invest in index fund, crypto, or some something like uwmc that's pays a dividend?

Also, don't I get screwed tax wise if they ask for this back later?


My job has overpaid me about once a year over the 4 years that I've been there.  The fix is always the same:  they pay me less the next time around.  I don't even know how a clawback would work.  But by taking the overpay from your coming check--you don't pay taxes twice.  

If you don't need the money--meaning if they come for it and you've lost it in the market but you can still comfortably pay your bills--I'd invest it.  But realize there's a real chance they realize it/decide they want it when the market is awful and you've lost a lot of it.  IF they ask for it back and you've lost it in the market and you can't afford to pay it back now--you're better off putting it into a high yield savings account or CD or something safe/stable like that.

You might want to reach back out.  Sooner or later they'll realize it, and I like having control over when people realize it.  You can make better decisions about the situation with all of the info.  Trying to decide what to do is harder when you don't know if/when they'll realize it or decide to do something about it.  

 
Figured I'd ask you guys.

I changed positions at my job and they put me in the wrong level (based on union contract) so I'm getting paid roughly $7 more per hour than I should be getting (I would hit this level in 4 years). So about an extra $300 after taxes each paycheck. I sent 1 email to my HR rep and he said he'll talk to his supervisor.... That was 5 months ago. 

So I just been saving the money whenever they ask for it back. This is a large county system so who knows when that'll be. I have pension, max my deferred comp, and ROTH IRA.

What should I do with this money? Get them to fix it or invest in index fund, crypto, or some something like uwmc that's pays a dividend?

Also, don't I get screwed tax wise if they ask for this back later?


Since they are still paying you the wrong amount, I'd follow up and make sure they correct it.  Maybe it's not a big deal if you are being diligent about setting the extra money aside, but why not just get it fixed and stop that number that you'll eventually have to repay from getting bigger and bigger?  You're not going to earn a meaningful amount in low-risk investments to make it worth your while trying to earn interest on $300 of over overpayments per paycheck.

I'm not sure what the county laws/regulations are or what your union CBA says, but for public employers there are often laws stating you have a right to make them spread the repayment out over the course of a year (as opposed to having the entire amount deducted from your next paycheck(s)), so you don't have to eat the repayment all at once.  There's no net tax problem, because your taxable earnings going forward are simply lowered by an offsetting amount to compensate.

 
GM, that is about as biased as you can get...
 
Another way to look at your arguments
 
1. Significant interest payments to the bank, likely more than your current rent, of which you get about 30% back via tax savings
2. Historically low interest rates driving (propping) housing prices up
3. Rental rates at an all time high, since the buy-rent ratio tends to be fairly stable and with housing prices climbing rental prices must rise to keep pace
4. Home prices are up 20% y-y in many areas, with many worried about a mini-bubble ongoing. Unfortunately the time to get a reasonable deal was a couple years ago. Luckily prices will flatten or drop once interest rates rise
5. You will no longer spend your weekends having fun, but instead mowing lawn / fixing #### / watching youtubes on how to lay tile
6. You might even get to be a landlord, nothing like your tenant calling you cuz his toilet is overflowing! Or you can hire a management company so that your profits go from marginal to negative
7. There is a real psychological pride of ownership, much of which is driven by advertising from realtors. If you tell people you own a house they go 'that is great for you, you must be doing well!' even though it doesn't change you or your situation one bit.
8. You get to make it yours, that part is real
 
 
----
This is coming from a recent homeowner in September... I have no regrets but buying a home when I was single would have been a mistake


Anybody want to tell me what home prices did since this post from Professor Wilked?  How about rates?  Sky high now?  

Aged well, this did not.

 
Anybody want to tell me what home prices did since this post from Professor Wilked?  How about rates?  Sky high now?  

Aged well, this did not.
Ha!  Good digging.  Prices are way up, no doubt.  My home has nearly doubled in the last 6 years, which is absolutely crazy

 
Adde my wife to the insurance and HSA back in June, and got to start doing catch up contributions.  Got the "excess contribution" letter today.  Called and it's a 1 click fix on the website haha, glad that worked out.  

Hope everything is going well for everyone.  This place has been quiet for a bit.

 
As if we needed more proof that real estate is local. While the rest of the country is going crazy, we finally are under contract to sell our land. 
for about 20% higher than we paid in 09 :bag:  we would have doubled the money in stocks.  
meanwhile our home increased about 60% in value in 3 years. 

 
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Does anyone have any good recommendations for financial/retirement type podcasts? I enjoy the ones that have callers that call-in versus the hosts just talking.

Appreciate any recommendations!

 
b-snatchers said:
Does anyone have any good recommendations for financial/retirement type podcasts? I enjoy the ones that have callers that call-in versus the hosts just talking.

Appreciate any recommendations!
I’ma big fan of the retirement answer man, https://www.rogerwhitney.com/blog/category/Podcasts

stay wealthy is solid https://youstaywealthy.com/

the two most popular I think are choosefi and stacking Benjamin’s. Both are great but not specifically geared towards those heading into retirement. 
 

a very good episode to start with: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/roger-whitney-agile-retirement-management/id1333861284?i=1000514350937

 
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Better options. Particularly international ETFs. Also, no RMD with the Roth IRA while there are RMDs for the Roth funds in the TSP. 
unless you are in a lower tax bracket I would question contributing to the Roth TSP in the first place

 
unless you are in a lower tax bracket I would question contributing to the Roth TSP in the first place


I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 

 
unless you are in a lower tax bracket I would question contributing to the Roth TSP in the first place
I was in a lower tax bracket. Plus the kids lowered our tax rate significantly. Keep in mind the credit was only partially refundable for a while. 

 
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I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 
It really depends on your bet on future tax rates. I’m aiming for about half Roth, half traditional total. Currently our accounts are about 1/3 traditional but I’m going more traditional now. 

 
It really depends on your bet on future tax rates. I’m aiming for about half Roth, half traditional total. Currently our accounts are about 1/3 traditional but I’m going more traditional now. 


Yeah see that's the thing, I'm not confident enough to make a guess at what tax rates will be in the future. Historically I've just figured I can take the big tax break now and hopefully figure out how to avoid a major tax bill in the future, which is a potential win-win scenario that I forfeit by making Roth contributions. 

But ultimately I'm in the same boat as you, I want to end up with a decent chunk in both account types so I have flexibility, only difference is I'm majority traditional right now and will probably start doing more Roth going forward to balance things out a bit more.

 
I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 
In general, I'm of the opinion that a mix of both is ideal to be able to control your AGI and taxable income in retirement. Between taxability of SS benefits, IRMMA, and various other income limitations there can be advantages to keeping your income below certain thresholds that go beyond ordinary tax rates.

 
I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 


I've done a mix of both the last few years with the goal of more flexibility in retirement, but switched to just traditional so far this year.  It seemed being in a high tax bracket it made the most sense, and I was buying a house and wanted to maximize take home pay.  But the down payment is paid and we're in the house, it's been a good year at work, and my savings are at an all time high.  So I think I'm going to switch to mostly Roth 401K for the rest of the year.  I didn't have access to a Roth 401K until a few years ago so it's only like 10% of my retirement funds, and I'd like to get that percentage higher.

 
I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 
A mix is the best idea unless you are 100% certain your tax rate will be lower in retirement. And even then, the lack of RMD is a nice feature. And sure, you'll never get those taxes back you pay now but you are helping to contribute to our society. :)

I generally recommend anywhere from 15-30% in a Roth, depending on how certain you are of your future tax rates. 

 
I know it's highly dependent on personal circumstances but what are the general feelings about Roth vs traditional around here?  I've historically put a majority in traditional pre-tax retirement accounts, but I recently enlisted the help of a CPA/CFP with some complicated tax stuff and he recommended doing a lot more Roth. My general take has been that I'm in a pretty high tax bracket now and I'll have more control over how much of my income is taxable in retirement; I think his general idea is that given the state of things, the government will have no choice but to raise taxes in the future so I should lock in today's relatively low tax rates. I don't doubt he's right about that but I still feel it's likely better to pay no tax now and, if I structure things right, potentially pay no (or little) tax later as well. Whereas I'll never get back the tax paid on money put in a Roth.

Ultimately I have a mix of both so I'll have flexibility in retirement (about 10-15 years away at this point), just curious where the FFA opinions fall on this one. 
I'm generally against voluntarily paying taxes now on the threat of future, unknown taxes.

Maybe not the popular opinion, but I'd pile into tax deferred vehicles as you can and then convert to Roth after retirement, but before RMDs, at a tax rate that at the least it would be very hard to lose on tax rates.  If you have free money with nothing else to do with it (or are in the income hole were you can't do traditional but can do Roth) then absolutely throw it into a Roth.

I'm at 3% of my total in Roth and HSA.  Aggressively maxing out HSA and have been since I had it available.  Roth gets utilized here and there where possible.

 
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Whats so bad about RMDs again?
They can be a significant taxable event and they're mandatory.  This is particularly true for those older folks that become widowed and then really get thrown into high tax territory.  Controlling that income is desirable and Roth conversions are the best way to do that.  

 
Sand said:
They can be a significant taxable event and they're mandatory.  This is particularly true for those older folks that become widowed and then really get thrown into high tax territory.  Controlling that income is desirable and Roth conversions are the best way to do that.  
Looking at the draw down rate, it seems very reasonable meaning about in line with what I'd be doing anyway.   Looks like at 72, if you have 2M, you're required to deduct about 78k..   Maybe this more adversely affects those that have a lot more than that saved and are forced to deduct more than they want/need?  I get having the money in a roth gives you more options, but need to still figure out a way to go about doing it that leaves you better off tax wise.   

 
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