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31 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Thanks. :thumbup: I think I'm learning something here.

That rule applies to the individual?  I mean you don't combine stuff for married filing jointly right?

I don't have a regular IRA.  My wife does though from a consolidation of a bunch of old 401Ks into an IIRA.  I'd need to apply the pro rata stuff if she decided to do a yearly backdoor?  She might have been doing it wrong for a few years.  :oldunsure:

Surprised my financial advisor didn't pick up on that.  But, he doesn't do my taxes so he might have assumed I was doing it right.

Thanks again.

It’s per individual so your wife’s IRA would not affect the calculation for your conversion. 

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2 hours ago, Tom Hagen said:

Not always, read Form 8606.  The pro-rata rules mean the tax free conversion is determined by applying the ratio of non-deductible contributions as a percentage of the aggregated balance of all Traditional, SEP and SIMPLE IRA accounts to the converted amount.

https://www.personalcapital.com/blog/taxes-insurance/backdoor-roth-ira-good-move/

  

I believe a way around that, proactively, is to not roll your 401ks over into an IRA when you change jobs. Pro Rata does not check 401k amounts. 

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6 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

I believe a way around that, proactively, is to not roll your 401ks over into an IRA when you change jobs. Pro Rata does not check 401k amounts. 

Right. Had I done that with the 3 or 4 wifes 401ks and left them sitting in previous employer's plans she would be eligible.  

And now she has her own small business, a SEP which is essentially a 401k for a small business, disqualies her too. 

Neither make sense and seem to favor big bank retirement plans while hurting individuals and small businesses.  

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Just now, tonydead said:

Right. Had I done that with the 3 or 4 wifes 401ks and left them sitting in previous employer's plans she would be eligible.  

And now she has her own small business, a SEP which is essentially a 401k for a small business, disqualies her too. 

Neither make sense and seem to favor big bank retirement plans while hurting individuals and small businesses.  

Yeah, I think it only makes sense if the 401k has some good, low cost options and you're planning to convert to Roth in the next several years. Leaving it in a crappy plan for 15 years or something would have cut your return more than the conversion tax savings is worth. 

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3 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Yeah, I think it only makes sense if the 401k has some good, low cost options and you're planning to convert to Roth in the next several years. Leaving it in a crappy plan for 15 years or something would have cut your return more than the conversion tax savings is worth. 

Good point. That makes me feel better. That and apparently she (we) did the Roth for her incorrectly a few years anyway.  

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On 11/30/2021 at 3:53 PM, Sand said:

Not if you already have a regular IRA.  Then pro rata rules apply.  It's the reason I've never been able to do this, which is a bummer.


totally same here. I mean other than not making Jack squat income wise. 🤷☹️

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Not sure why this never occurred to me in the Traditional vs Roth discussion in the past, but another benefit of more in the Roth is to lower your RMDs from Traditional, right? So if I save $1M for retirement all in Traditional IRAs, then my RMDs will be higher than if $300k of that $1M was in Roth IRAs as the RMDs would only be calculated on $700k. 

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Hello everyone,

My son has been in the military and is now in the reserves.  20+ years overall so far.

He has what was recently referred to as "ghost credit", which I understand to mean no credit good or bad.  He pays cash for everything.  Why?  I don't really know.

In the next 2 years he hopes to use his VA Loan to buy a house.  What is the best way for him to establish enough credit to allow him to qualify for a loan if it is even possible?

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10 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Not sure why this never occurred to me in the Traditional vs Roth discussion in the past, but another benefit of more in the Roth is to lower your RMDs from Traditional, right? So if I save $1M for retirement all in Traditional IRAs, then my RMDs will be higher than if $300k of that $1M was in Roth IRAs as the RMDs would only be calculated on $700k. 

I have 4 "buckets" I plan to pull from in retirement.

Traditional IRA 

Roth IRA 

Traditional 401k

Roth 401k

Plus pension....

I don't know how much Ill have but the theory is to pull based on tax rate....

 

 

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3 hours ago, SteevieG said:

Hello everyone,

My son has been in the military and is now in the reserves.  20+ years overall so far.

He has what was recently referred to as "ghost credit", which I understand to mean no credit good or bad.  He pays cash for everything.  Why?  I don't really know.

In the next 2 years he hopes to use his VA Loan to buy a house.  What is the best way for him to establish enough credit to allow him to qualify for a loan if it is even possible?

If you have solid credit history, especially on an old credit card with a high limit, add him as an authorized user.

For a normal Visa or MasterCard (not Amex), for example.... 20 years old, 20K limit, no missed or late payments in the last 10 years... he'd instantly get all of your credit history for that single card on his report. Even better if it's a card you rarely use so the utilization remains below 10%, better at 5%, as long as it has at least some usage (paid off in full after the bill arrives) while he's on it as a user. 

The more solid old cards that you have, the better.

I think there's also a Discover pre-paid card for building history that might help?

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39 minutes ago, belljr said:

I have 4 "buckets" I plan to pull from in retirement.

Traditional IRA 

Roth IRA 

Traditional 401k

Roth 401k

Plus pension....

I don't know how much Ill have but the theory is to pull based on tax rate....

 

 

Are you planning on rolling the 401k assets into the respected IRAs upon retirement?  I believe there are some benefits to getting those out of the 401(k), esp the Roth.

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3 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

One more option for those with a traditional IRA who want to do backdoor Roths without pro-rata issues - if you have a good 401(k) that allows assets to be rolled in, you can roll your IRA into your 401(k).  Then you can backdoor away. 

Mine does none of the cool stuff.  I feel so left out.

2 hours ago, belljr said:

I don't know how much Ill have but the theory is to pull based on tax rate....

And the ACA income cliff.

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3 hours ago, belljr said:

I have 4 "buckets" I plan to pull from in retirement.

Traditional IRA 

Roth IRA 

Traditional 401k

Roth 401k

Plus pension....

I don't know how much Ill have but the theory is to pull based on tax rate....

 

 

Do you also have cash/brokerage in your list of buckets?  I may try to hold off on using my Roth money as it is a nice way to pass money to my kids. I’ll take a longer look at this once alimony/child support are done. 

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9 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

Are you planning on rolling the 401k assets into the respected IRAs upon retirement?  I believe there are some benefits to getting those out of the 401(k), esp the Roth.

That's how I started my IRA. It's from all my previous 401ks.   So I assume I'll do the same at some point. I still have time :)

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10 hours ago, belljr said:

I have 4 "buckets" I plan to pull from in retirement.

Traditional IRA 

Roth IRA 

Traditional 401k

Roth 401k

Plus pension....

I don't know how much Ill have but the theory is to pull based on tax rate....

 

 

All same except TSP instead of 401k, which is one account consisting of Roth and traditional. The one good thing there is you get to choose the allocation (Roth Vs traditional) of the withdrawals.
 And two pensions, one will be quite small. 
add regular brokerage accounts, I bonds, and I’ll have about $100k in Fundrise by retirement. Presuming it’s still around. 

Roth IRA will be last and the only tax advantaged account without RMDs. 

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10 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

Are you planning on rolling the 401k assets into the respected IRAs upon retirement?  I believe there are some benefits to getting those out of the 401(k), esp the Roth.

The biggest benefit, I think, Is no RMD with the Roth IRA but there is with the 401k. This could change. 

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10 hours ago, Runkle said:

If you have solid credit history, especially on an old credit card with a high limit, add him as an authorized user.

For a normal Visa or MasterCard (not Amex), for example.... 20 years old, 20K limit, no missed or late payments in the last 10 years... he'd instantly get all of your credit history for that single card on his report. Even better if it's a card you rarely use so the utilization remains below 10%, better at 5%, as long as it has at least some usage (paid off in full after the bill arrives) while he's on it as a user. 

The more solid old cards that you have, the better.

I think there's also a Discover pre-paid card for building history that might help?

 

If you trust him this is the way to go.  The risk is that he destroys your credit(or vice versa), but if you are comfortable with that risk then it makes sense.  You could even add him and not give him the card. I did this with my wife when we were engaged as i wanted to make sure her credit was perfect when we went to buy a house.

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14 hours ago, SteevieG said:

Hello everyone,

My son has been in the military and is now in the reserves.  20+ years overall so far.

He has what was recently referred to as "ghost credit", which I understand to mean no credit good or bad.  He pays cash for everything.  Why?  I don't really know.

In the next 2 years he hopes to use his VA Loan to buy a house.  What is the best way for him to establish enough credit to allow him to qualify for a loan if it is even possible?

If I recall, @Chadstroma has a lot of knowledge in that area

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

All same except TSP instead of 401k, which is one account consisting of Roth and traditional. The one good thing there is you get to choose the allocation (Roth Vs traditional) of the withdrawals.
 And two pensions, one will be quite small. 
add regular brokerage accounts, I bonds, and I’ll have about $100k in Fundrise by retirement. Presuming it’s still around. 

Roth IRA will be last and the only tax advantaged account without RMDs. 

Well I have TSP but in theory it's "separate".  But I get where you are coming from

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5 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

 

If you trust him this is the way to go.  The risk is that he destroys your credit(or vice versa), but if you are comfortable with that risk then it makes sense.  You could even add him and not give him the card. I did this with my wife when we were engaged as i wanted to make sure her credit was perfect when we went to buy a house.

 

Oh for sure, you don't have give him the actual second card they'll send you. Just putting his social security number as an "authorized user" on your account will instantly gift him the entire credit history of that card as if it's been his the entire time. 

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19 hours ago, SteevieG said:

Hello everyone,

My son has been in the military and is now in the reserves.  20+ years overall so far.

He has what was recently referred to as "ghost credit", which I understand to mean no credit good or bad.  He pays cash for everything.  Why?  I don't really know.

In the next 2 years he hopes to use his VA Loan to buy a house.  What is the best way for him to establish enough credit to allow him to qualify for a loan if it is even possible?

Two years is plenty if time to get things established for him. 

If you have a credit card in good standing, long established and low utilization rate, you can add him as an authorized signer, if you are inclined. Most cards will report the entire credit history so it is an instant boost to him. AU cards can be problematic in mortgage underwriting if not the spouse and if you can not show some sort of active contribution to the card but it is often 'missed'. I would guard against that though and establish his own credit for his own longtime well being. Target a total of 4 tradelines for him. The AU will allow him to apply for CC's and get approved but don't apply for 3 cards right away. 2 for now, wait a few months and add the 3rd. Have him use all the cards each month to no more than 10% of the line amount, pay in full and rinse and repeat. 

About 9 months or so from about when he wants to apply for the mortgage, have him start a Self https://www.selflender.com/refer/12828349 or Credit Strong https://www.creditstrong.com/?transid=102b5895889876031b775f3b5516aa&AffID=1370&offerID=2&utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=1370 account. Have him select the lowest monthly (should be $25). This will add mix of credit for him giving him a further boost on credit. 

Make sure to pay everything on time and follow the instructions. He should be mid 700's and get the best available rate. 

If he wants, and is on Facebook he can join www.facebook.com/groups/creditscoremasters which is a group I lead to help people with credit with a special emphasis on preparing to get a mortgage. 

Once he is ready, I can vonnect him to a great mortgage broker licensed in his state as well. Vets get screwed over by lots of lenders, so he needs to be careful. Even companies with good reps otherwise suck with mortgages like NFCU and USAA but there are some evil ones like New Day and Veterans United who really target vets to soak them of their VA benefits.

 

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16 hours ago, Runkle said:

If you have solid credit history, especially on an old credit card with a high limit, add him as an authorized user.

For a normal Visa or MasterCard (not Amex), for example.... 20 years old, 20K limit, no missed or late payments in the last 10 years... he'd instantly get all of your credit history for that single card on his report. Even better if it's a card you rarely use so the utilization remains below 10%, better at 5%, as long as it has at least some usage (paid off in full after the bill arrives) while he's on it as a user. 

The more solid old cards that you have, the better.

I think there's also a Discover pre-paid card for building history that might help?

Pre-paid cards never report and thus do not help with credit but I believe you may be thinking of a secured card. Discover has one if the best secured cards out there. I recommend it and another card (the other card us best at raising credit quickly). 

AU is still a good credit score hack but technically can be problematic in mortgage underwriting though it is one of the most overlooked items in underwriting. 

He also wants to thicken the credit profile (add tradelines) and get a mix of credit in there. 

You actually want the card to be used often or at least once a month so that there is a long history of on time payments on it. No use of it means no payments unless paying a carried balance which I never recommend. 

Under 10% is absolutely correct. 

A few tweaks but otherwise :goodposting:

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5 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Pre-paid cards never report and thus do not help with credit but I believe you may be thinking of a secured card. Discover has one if the best secured cards out there. I recommend it and another card (the other card us best at raising credit quickly). 

 

 

Yeah, the Discover secured card is the good starter card for his own credit history. That was what I was thinking of, it would be a good addition to getting added as an AU on one or more old cards. 

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Good discussion here.  I have a daughter who's a freshman in college, and is super responsible and frugal, so it would seem to make sense to add her as an AU on one of my cards just to get the clock started on her credit history.

I've already had the discussions with her about all the mistakes that I made...like that Radio Shack card I opened to buy a pack of batteries when I was a freshman, forgot about (I moved right after), and had that $5.00 turn into hundreds and a ding on my credit report.

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3 hours ago, Runkle said:

 

Yeah, the Discover secured card is the good starter card for his own credit history. That was what I was thinking of, it would be a good addition to getting added as an AU on one or more old cards. 

 

Thank you very much to @Runkle @Chadstroma @PinkydaPimp and @Tom Hagen and anyone I may have missed for the rock solid advice.  I have a card that is about 10 years old that is paid off but I'll start using it at least a time or two a month and make sure to not carry any balance.  I'll add him to that one.  He actually has a Kohl's card that shows up but he has never used it.  I'll make sure if he needs socks or anything to use it and pay it off immediately.  I'll suggest to him the secured Discover card also.  And I'll make sure he joins the Facebook page as well as the other things mentioned.

Again, thank you all very much!

Edited by SteevieG
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4 minutes ago, SteevieG said:

 

Thank you very much to @Runkle @Chadstroma @PinkydaPimp and @Tom Hagen and anyone I may have missed for the rock solid advice.  I have a card that is about 10 years old that is paid off but I'll start using it at least a time or two a month and make sure to not carry any balance.  I'll add him to that one.  He actually has a Kohl's card that shows up but he has never used it.  I'll make sure if he needs socks or anything to use it and pay it off immediately.  I'll suggest to him the secured Discover card also.  And I'll make sure he joins the Facebook page as well as the other things mentioned.

Again, thank you all very much!

If he has any specific questions he van reach out and tag me in the group and I can respond or you can ask here too for sure. 

 

Best wishes for him!

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1 hour ago, SFBayDuck said:

Good discussion here.  I have a daughter who's a freshman in college, and is super responsible and frugal, so it would seem to make sense to add her as an AU on one of my cards just to get the clock started on her credit history.

I've already had the discussions with her about all the mistakes that I made...like that Radio Shack card I opened to buy a pack of batteries when I was a freshman, forgot about (I moved right after), and had that $5.00 turn into hundreds and a ding on my credit report.

As a college student, I would habe her get her own card. Unless there is any specific upcoming need to get credit up, then the AU is uneedee at this point but you can still do it as well as it will not hurt at all. Just pointing out from what you have said there is no need for it.

 

Student credit cards are usually easily available to college students. I would again recommend Discover as a great student card. Have her get it like tonight. Add a couple more over time. Use and pau off in full. Have her establish that habit and the mind set to never carry a balance but get the use so the on time payments are added in there. 

Credit cards are key and crucial for long term good credit.

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I'd also suggest the discover student card. In her own name. And keep it forever, even if she stops using it. That way she can keep a high "average age of accounts" for her credit score. 

 

Being an authorized user is good for a quick boost to credit, but, having her own old cards will be better in the long run. 

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10 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Why do you consider it separate? 

Because I'm allocating pre tax money into one and post tax money into the other. And I can choose different percentages towards each and how to allocate my funds. I understand it's all under one umbrella and when I distribute I can choose but the taxing and allocation is basically a 401k vs roth-401k

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8 hours ago, SFBayDuck said:

Good discussion here.  I have a daughter who's a freshman in college, and is super responsible and frugal, so it would seem to make sense to add her as an AU on one of my cards just to get the clock started on her credit history.

I've already had the discussions with her about all the mistakes that I made...like that Radio Shack card I opened to buy a pack of batteries when I was a freshman, forgot about (I moved right after), and had that $5.00 turn into hundreds and a ding on my credit report.

I added my 18 and 16yo sons to my gas card when they started to drive. I’ll probably get the oldest on my main card as he’s living at home for now and runs errands for us. I’ve been just giving him my card, it’s not like Walmart is checking. But that doesn’t really help his score. 

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On 12/3/2021 at 11:13 PM, -OZ- said:

I added my 18 and 16yo sons to my gas card when they started to drive. I’ll probably get the oldest on my main card as he’s living at home for now and runs errands for us. I’ve been just giving him my card, it’s not like Walmart is checking. But that doesn’t really help his score. 

I added my daughter to an old Capital One card I had as an AU.  I was able to give her a lower credit limit, too, so she couldn’t do something really dumb.  Good info here on student cards.  I’ll keep this in mind for when she turns 18 in a year. 

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On 12/3/2021 at 1:37 PM, SFBayDuck said:

...like that Radio Shack card I opened to buy a pack of batteries when I was a freshman, forgot about (I moved right after), and had that $5.00 turn into hundreds and a ding on my credit report.

I can hear the satisfaction from here that they went bankrupt...

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Another reminder that the market doesn’t necessarily follow the news. 
hearing this morning a lot of concerns about omicron, seems worse than delta or anything other than last March. Markets up ~1% 

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On 12/7/2021 at 9:08 AM, -OZ- said:

Another reminder that the market doesn’t necessarily follow the news. 
hearing this morning a lot of concerns about omicron, seems worse than delta or anything other than last March. Markets up ~1% 

Interesting.  Everything I’m reading says bottom line the variant is less deadly than delta, hence the rally in the market.  

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9 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

Interesting.  Everything I’m reading says bottom line the variant is less deadly than delta, hence the rally in the market.  

Yeah, that’s been the deal since the stories I had listened to. Guess I need better news sources 🤷

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Seeking 401K advice please.  Here is basic info:

- Target retirement date is in 2027
- Employer-sponsored 401K within Fidelity
- Despite being so close to retirement current asset mix remains highly aggressive (82% domestic stock & 8% foreign stock + misc)
- Using the Fidelity retirement tool my score is a 117 using the "significantly below average returns" model and the "moderate" asset mix listed below (100 is "on track" and any score above 100 is better)
- I have no interest in actively managing a portfolio as I can't or won't dedicate the time to becoming an investment expert

I'm considering the following options and would appreciate advice or direction:

Option 1 - Move the 401K to a target retirement date fund which is supposedly optimized for those retiring around a certain time (options would be 2025 or 2030 as the target date)

Option 2 - Move 401K to a still somewhat aggressive mix - 49% domestic stock, 21% foreign, 25% bonds

Option 3 - Move 401K to a "balanced" mix - 35% domestic, 15% foreign, 40% bonds

Option 4 - Move 401K to a "moderate" mix - 28% domestic, 12% foreign, 45% bonds

Option 5 - Pay for active management of the 401K by a Fidelity advisor (I would strongly prefer not to do this but could be convinced it is a smart investment of that expense)

Thank you so much for thoughtful advice.
 

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I’d guard against getting too conservative so I’d vote Option 1 unless you don’t expect to live very long. Have 6-8 years of withdrawals in cash and bonds when you retire and have the rest in stocks. Since you have 5 more years until you retire, maybe have only 3-4 years worth in bonds or cash now and sell off stock holdings as you get closer to 2027. 

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4 hours ago, The Winter Me said:

Seeking 401K advice please.  Here is basic info:

- Target retirement date is in 2027
- Employer-sponsored 401K within Fidelity
- Despite being so close to retirement current asset mix remains highly aggressive (82% domestic stock & 8% foreign stock + misc)
- Using the Fidelity retirement tool my score is a 117 using the "significantly below average returns" model and the "moderate" asset mix listed below (100 is "on track" and any score above 100 is better)
- I have no interest in actively managing a portfolio as I can't or won't dedicate the time to becoming an investment expert

I'm considering the following options and would appreciate advice or direction:

Option 1 - Move the 401K to a target retirement date fund which is supposedly optimized for those retiring around a certain time (options would be 2025 or 2030 as the target date)

Option 2 - Move 401K to a still somewhat aggressive mix - 49% domestic stock, 21% foreign, 25% bonds

Option 3 - Move 401K to a "balanced" mix - 35% domestic, 15% foreign, 40% bonds

Option 4 - Move 401K to a "moderate" mix - 28% domestic, 12% foreign, 45% bonds

Option 5 - Pay for active management of the 401K by a Fidelity advisor (I would strongly prefer not to do this but could be convinced it is a smart investment of that expense)

Thank you so much for thoughtful advice.
 

 

I mean those target date funds are all over the place in the 5 years going into the target date on their AA mix.  I would not like the extra fees the near term target funds come with either.  This is a situation where sitting down with a financial planner on a per visit fee basis would probably solve 95% of your questions.  

 

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15 minutes ago, The Winter Me said:

I will have to explore this angle as that hasn't been presented as an option for us. Certainly worth looking into. Thx.

 

I would look into a local firm that does estate and financial planning.  Usually they are lawyer cpa types that aren't going to try to put you in some wrap structure.  

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1 hour ago, culdeus said:

General question here maybe for @Chadstroma if you pay cash for a house, then turn around and get a mortgage for it do you get refi type rates or first mortgage type rates?

You can do what is called "delayed financing" right away. Off the top of my head I don't remember how much time you have to it but it is purchase rates.

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17 hours ago, The Winter Me said:

Seeking 401K advice please.  Here is basic info:

- Target retirement date is in 2027
- Employer-sponsored 401K within Fidelity
- Despite being so close to retirement current asset mix remains highly aggressive (82% domestic stock & 8% foreign stock + misc)
- Using the Fidelity retirement tool my score is a 117 using the "significantly below average returns" model and the "moderate" asset mix listed below (100 is "on track" and any score above 100 is better)
- I have no interest in actively managing a portfolio as I can't or won't dedicate the time to becoming an investment expert

I'm considering the following options and would appreciate advice or direction:

Option 1 - Move the 401K to a target retirement date fund which is supposedly optimized for those retiring around a certain time (options would be 2025 or 2030 as the target date)

Option 2 - Move 401K to a still somewhat aggressive mix - 49% domestic stock, 21% foreign, 25% bonds

Option 3 - Move 401K to a "balanced" mix - 35% domestic, 15% foreign, 40% bonds

Option 4 - Move 401K to a "moderate" mix - 28% domestic, 12% foreign, 45% bonds

Option 5 - Pay for active management of the 401K by a Fidelity advisor (I would strongly prefer not to do this but could be convinced it is a smart investment of that expense)

Thank you so much for thoughtful advice.
 

@culdeus is right imo. Being practically 5 years from retirement and not wanting to manage this yourself, a fee only planner, without the AUM model (so hourly or a la carte) is well worthwhile here. 
 

i actually enjoy this stuff and will see someone like this when we’re 5 years out. The second opinion can be worthwhile. 

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