Personal Finance Advice and Education!

[Sand]

8 hours ago, humpback said:

401K withdrawals are treated like ordinary income, so you still have to pay federal and state income taxes (perhaps at a lower rate, but they don't just go away).

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

[humpback]

2 hours ago, Sand said:

 

10 hours ago, humpback said:

401K withdrawals are treated like ordinary income, so you still have to pay federal and state income taxes (perhaps at a lower rate, but they don't just go away).

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

Sure, if you pay the taxes on the conversion now you can make them go away in retirement, but you have to factor that in as well.  Obviously you can try to manage things to help reduce your burden, but the types of things in those links aren't feasible for the vast majority of people.

Also, this is dependent on preferential treatment of certain types of income, which can change at any time, and states usually don't give the same preferential treatment.  Of course, you could move to a state with no state income tax to avoid that.

[wittyusername]

11 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

With that much in retirement income, I am sure there are some decent assets currently (if not, WTH?!) which would make it pretty much a slam dunk to get a living trust among other estate planning done. We had all of ours done (wife and myself) done a few years back. It was free for me but the whole enchilada (will, living will, trust, poa, etc) would have cost a couple of grand. For the benefit of avoiding taxes and making things easier on loved ones- easily worth the cost to have a good estate lawyer work with you and draw up all the docs.

Thanks for the tip - but I'm a little confused.  Do I need a tax accountant/advisor, a financial advisor, an estate lawyer - all of the above?  Is there some way I can find a one-stop comprehensive advisor, or do I need a combination?  Suggestions?

[Sand]

1 hour ago, humpback said:

Sure, if you pay the taxes on the conversion now you can make them go away in retirement, but you have to factor that in as well.  Obviously you can try to manage things to help reduce your burden, but the types of things in those links aren't feasible for the vast majority of people.

Also, this is dependent on preferential treatment of certain types of income, which can change at any time, and states usually don't give the same preferential treatment.  Of course, you could move to a state with no state income tax to avoid that.

Not to regurgitate those articles, but if you are under income limits (depends on deductions, etc.) you never have to pay taxes on the conversion.

[NutterButter]

Is this whole Roth IRA ladder article just talking about a way to get money out of your IRA penalty free prior to reaching 59.5?  

[Tiger Fan]

34 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

Is this whole Roth IRA ladder article just talking about a way to get money out of your IRA penalty free prior to reaching 59.5?  

link?

[NutterButter]

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/585126-personal-finance-advice-and-education/?do=findComment&comment=19145024

[Sand]

1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Is this whole Roth IRA ladder article just talking about a way to get money out of your IRA penalty free prior to reaching 59.5?  

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

[Chadstroma]

12 hours ago, wittyusername said:

Thanks for the tip - but I'm a little confused.  Do I need a tax accountant/advisor, a financial advisor, an estate lawyer - all of the above?  Is there some way I can find a one-stop comprehensive advisor, or do I need a combination?  Suggestions?

It depends really. The more assets and complexity of your situation the more you need more specialists to assist you. The smaller your assets and simplicity then just one could do the job mostly. There is some overlap in what these professionals do but some do things the others can't or don't specialize in. A really good financial planner may mean you don't need the tax advisor and depending on the situation an estate lawyer (though if you haven't had a trust set up yet- you are going to want to see an estate lawyer to write those docs up for you for sure as well as any others you haven't done... will, living will, etc). Depending on your investable assets- you could qualify for private banking. Private banking has teams of specialist that basically take care of everything for you. The lowest I have seen from any bank with one of these units is about $250K in investable assets. If that is a bit out of your reach right now- I would start with a financial planner. Ask around for referrals from friends, family and work associates that are in similar financial situations as you. Look for a fee based planner. They will work with you and then if need be they should have referrals to a tax person and/or lawyer that they have an ongoing relationship with.

[humpback]

15 hours ago, Sand said:

Not to regurgitate those articles, but if you are under income limits (depends on deductions, etc.) you never have to pay taxes on the conversion.

I don't think it mentions state taxes at all, but it says right in the article that they have to pay taxes on the conversion (they keep it low because they assume the conversion is their only income for the year, which is another unrealistic assumption for the vast majority of people).

Again, most people can and should plan more than they do to minimize taxes, but that's very different from saying that you "no longer pay federal and state income taxes" in retirement- that's just not true for most people with decent incomes.

 

[Tiger Fan]

20 hours ago, Sand said:

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

I was under the impression that you could only covert $5500 into a Roth IRA each year.....hmm

[Tiger Fan]

14 hours ago, Sand said:

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

these are great articles....need to study them some more

Edited June 4, 2016 by Tiger Fan

[FUBAR]

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

[Chadstroma]

1 hour ago, FUBAR said:

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

Commission is where money is made. For the flat fee based advisors, you have to see a lot of people to make money and if you are working for a company that means that they are taking a big chunk of that fee before it gets to you.

I am also a bit on the bearish side for the field. There is a major push towards roboadvisors and some of the stuff I have been reading is showing a fairly large and quick migration to that. I am wondering how much of a lucrative field it will be in the not too distant future.

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

[eoMMan]

And for CFPs who aren't on a straight salary, the first few years are much more like a sales job instead of actual financial planning  (cold calling, organizing events to recruit clients, etc.) It's all about establishing that client base and grinding it out for awhile.

At least that's what I heard.

[Chadstroma]

Just now, eoMMan said:

And for CFPs who aren't on a straight salary, the first few years are much more like a sales job instead of actual financial planning  (cold calling, organizing events to recruit clients, etc.) It's all about establishing that client base and grinding it out for awhile.

At least that's what I heard.

True with the exception of starting at a retail bank brokerage but they typically do not hire (at least I have never seen it) unlicensed newbs. Either you already have your licenses or you 'moved up' through the retail side to gradually move from banker to licensed banker to advisor, a route which can take several years even if you are really good.

[Steve Tasker]

On 6/3/2016 at 11:57 PM, Sand said:

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

These articles are a bit misleading.  Yes, if you have no other income and can structure your income such that it all comes from, say, Roth IRAs, muni bonds, and capital gains/qualified dividends, you can live tax-free.  But that's not most people.

Also, I think your comment about "convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes" is misleading as well.  If done correctly, you can access the converted Roth tax-free, yes, but you're paying taxes either on the conversion from the IRA (assuming it was a deductible IRA) or in the year you make the IRA contribution (assuming it was a nondeductible IRA).  I think backdoor Roths are a great tax planning tool and have advised people to do them, but your comments make it sound like nothing is ever taxed, which is really not the case.

[FUBAR]

36 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Commission is where money is made. For the flat fee based advisors, you have to see a lot of people to make money and if you are working for a company that means that they are taking a big chunk of that fee before it gets to you.

I am also a bit on the bearish side for the field. There is a major push towards roboadvisors and some of the stuff I have been reading is showing a fairly large and quick migration to that. I am wondering how much of a lucrative field it will be in the not too distant future.

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

yep.  as much as I'd like to get into the field, it seems the best way for me to do anything there will be volunteer work, hosting classes and the like.

[NutterButter]

2 hours ago, Steve Tasker said:

These articles are a bit misleading.  Yes, if you have no other income and can structure your income such that it all comes from, say, Roth IRAs, muni bonds, and capital gains/qualified dividends, you can live tax-free.  But that's not most people.

Also, I think your comment about "convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes" is misleading as well.  If done correctly, you can access the converted Roth tax-free, yes, but you're paying taxes either on the conversion from the IRA (assuming it was a deductible IRA) or in the year you make the IRA contribution (assuming it was a nondeductible IRA).  I think backdoor Roths are a great tax planning tool and have advised people to do them, but your comments make it sound like nothing is ever taxed, which is really not the case.

But you're not paying taxes if you have no income to declare and the conversion is the same as your standard deduction right?  So if you're single and you convert $6300, you shouldn't have any federal taxes to pay right?  As you say, only a tiny portion of people could do this on a large scale, but if you had a few years racked up in a roth already or some other source on non-taxable income, you could save a few grand in taxes.  Nothing earth shattering.   

[Steve Tasker]

1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

But you're not paying taxes if you have no income to declare and the conversion is the same as your standard deduction right?  So if you're single and you convert $6300, you shouldn't have any federal taxes to pay right?  As you say, only a tiny portion of people could do this on a large scale, but if you had a few years racked up in a roth already or some other source on non-taxable income, you could save a few grand in taxes.  Nothing earth shattering.   

Yes, it is possible.  It's just not very common or easy to pull off, that was my only complaint with those articles. 

[Vincesanity]

8 hours ago, FUBAR said:

yep.  as much as I'd like to get into the field, it seems the best way for me to do anything there will be volunteer work, hosting classes and the like.

If you want to slowly get started in the field shoot me a DM. You don't need to be a CFP to be a financial planner. The best overall in my opinion is to get your series 66 and series 7 license. This allows you to charge for financial plans, do fee based advising or commission based. Commission based is dying off with all the new regulations and I'm moving my business to fee based. It is a hard business to start in but it can be done. I would never work for a planner on salary. The beauty of the business is building residual income. That can be off assets or financial plans. If it's something that interests you don't give up on it. You can even start part time while doing something else ( best way actually ).

[Doctor Detroit]

9 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

Yep, because they are fleecing their clients.  Hopefully the new fiduciary law will limit the excess waste in the field and enable clients to get investment vehicles that are in their best interest.  The whole industry is in a panic over lost jobs and profits, which is awesome for investors. 

[Doctor Detroit]

10 hours ago, FUBAR said:

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever. 

[FUBAR]

6 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever. 

Thanks, but my family does need to eat. Okay, it's not quite that bad but taking that big a drop just isn't worth it without better potential to make it worthwhile in the long run.  

I'm also not going to call the entire insurance field not-respectable.  Lots of agents make a bad reputation for the field but there are respectable people and companies in the field.  

[Random]

6 hours ago, Vincesanity said:

If you want to slowly get started in the field shoot me a DM. You don't need to be a CFP to be a financial planner. The best overall in my opinion is to get your series 66 and series 7 license. This allows you to charge for financial plans, do fee based advising or commission based. Commission based is dying off with all the new regulations and I'm moving my business to fee based. It is a hard business to start in but it can be done. I would never work for a planner on salary. The beauty of the business is building residual income. That can be off assets or financial plans. If it's something that interests you don't give up on it. You can even start part time while doing something else ( best way actually ).

Is this something you can expand on here?  I would love to know how you start slowly in this field.  Thanks.

[ghostguy123]

I sort of mentioned this a while back, but I have some money in a frozen pension plan from the first few years I worked at my original job.  I have switched jobs recently, so no longer with the company where I had the frozen pension plan.  Smallish amount, about $12,500.  I can just leave it sitting there while it builds up, estimated to be about $50,000 when I am 65 (36 now).  The lifetime annuities are not something I want to bother with.  It would be like 50 bucks a month if I took it now, and like 300 a month when I am 65.  I am not interested in either of those options.

I guess my question is, would you rather have $12,500 now (say 10 grand after taxes) or $50,000 about 30 years from now (say 40 grand after taxes).  Also, that $50,000 is also an approximation.  Who the heck knows what it will be or what tax rates will be.  However, if it is based on the market, I would tend to think I could do much better with $10,000 right now and letting it ride in the market for 30 years.  With around a 4% annual return in a roth IRA it would double up about three times over the course of 30 years, making it about 80 grand.  Even just doubling up twice would get it back to $40,000. 

I do not currently have a roth IRA, so was thinking of diversifying a bit that way, and using this money to do it.  I plan to continue to max out  my 403b contributions, so the idea of having some options based on tax rates later in life has some appeal.

Any other ideas for the money that dont include hookers and blow?  Another rental property has also crossed my mind.

[Tiger Fan]

2 hours ago, Random said:

Is this something you can expand on here?  I would love to know how you start slowly in this field.  Thanks.

 

I too am interested

[pantherclub]

Not sure how much this has been discussed in the previous pages, (and if it has what page?) but I am in the process of buying my second rental home.  The first one has been a great and  smooth experience and I paid cash for the down payment.  For the second one I am going to dip into my equity line for the 20% down payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience in this or if its already been discussed could you point me to the page

 

 

thanks

[Chadstroma]

8 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever. 

I can't speak for the guy making $250-500K but I know several people that I have known for years that have very high levels of integrity and always seek to do what is right for their clients. They make decent income as a result (I have not asked how much specifically but from what I can tell enough to be solidly middle class in California). I also know from personal first hand experience that you can succeed in the financial services industry by being single minded on delivering the best possible outcomes for your customers since that is how I do business and I have always been 'one of the best' in what I have done. Simply because my customers know that I am seeking their benefit and not my own then they become loyal to me personally and often become unpaid salespeople on my benefit (referrals).  It is funny thought because this approach has me lose business all the time. Not just from things I don't recommend or try to sell but when I first come into contact with people, so many times they are so gun shy about listening to me. I know in their head they are thinking "what is the catch he isn't telling me?" when there is none. Just yesterday, I had a guy that I showed I could save him several hundred dollars from what he was doing now with almost no effort on his part- he just needed to say yes, give me his annual income and sign a doc. I broke it down for him and showed him exactly what it would save him and how. Assured him that there were no other 'catches' and how we would even get more benefits on things he already had with us as an extra bonus. The benefit for me? Just over $20. Not really worth the time and effort I put in to try to show him that it was in his interest. In the past (past because after this week I am moving to a new B2B sales position and my mind has already moved on), he would be the kind of person that I would push back on a bit more than I did. Not for the $20 but because once I win him over- he would really listen to my advice and when he needed anything he would come directly to me. That loyal customer is worth much more than $20 in the long run and you only gain those customers by doing what is right for them. More importantly, I need to be able to go home and sleep at night and I wouldn't be able to do that if I was screwing people over. I certainly wouldn't lump everyone or an industry in one group. It would be kind of like saying that all union members are lazy and worthless.

[Chadstroma]

15 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Not sure how much this has been discussed in the previous pages, (and if it has what page?) but I am in the process of buying my second rental home.  The first one has been a great and  smooth experience and I paid cash for the down payment.  For the second one I am going to dip into my equity line for the 20% down payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience in this or if its already been discussed could you point me to the page

 

 

thanks

What exactly are you looking info regarding?

[pantherclub]

6 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

What exactly are you looking info regarding?

Pros cons of using equity as down payment?   Specifically around $50000

[Chadstroma]

Pro's:

• Tax deductibility (not a tax expert but I believe the interest on loans for investment properties is not- meaning a loan using the investment property as collateral) 
• Ability to leverage for my buying power and do what you want to do

Con's

• HeLoan has higher rate (though maybe around the same for an investment property now)
• HELOC is variable (though some have options to lock in balances but see above)
• If things go bad and you foreclose the property, you are still paying on that money on your primary residence

 

For what it is worth, though a bit different that what you are doing, my plan for when we are ready to move from our house is to keep it (and keep the 3.25% 30 year fixed that I am 4 years into). I will rent it out. I will be using the equity to put the down on the new property that we buy.

 

[pantherclub]

Thanks.  

 

The dropping the $50000 from equity scares me a bit and it may be some time before house #3 appreciates substantially but the rent in the area (university) is strong. Slight gamble but you never will gain substantial wealth without some risk. 

[Chadstroma]

Just now, pantherclub said:

Thanks.  

 

The dropping the $50000 from equity scares me a bit and it may be some time before house #3 appreciates substantially but the rent in the area (university) is strong. Slight gamble but you never will gain substantial wealth without some risk. 

If it will be long term (in terms of paying off)- you might want to think about a HeLoan. Shorter term then HELOC may be your best bet. HeLoan let's you get fixed in and a HELOC let's you have flexibility but you take on the interest rate risks.

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm sure there are a ton of great insurance agents out there.  The system however allows the not so good ones pray on unsuspecting people at worst, and it allows agents to push inappropriate products to clients regardless of intention.  Why wouldn't an agent try and sell a variable life insurance package to a client if the agent believes in it?  Maybe that agent thinks everyone should own one.  Therein lies the problem, a lot of these vehicles are not appropriate to clients and hopefully this new law closes those gaps.  A lot of commissions are going to go away but at the same time, the commissions earned will be commensurate with what is best for all parties.  I wasn't trying to say all insurance guys are dicks, it's the rules that govern them that is a dick. 

[ghostguy123]

cmon folks.................10 grand today, or 40 grand 30 years from today......................

[RUSF18]

33 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

cmon folks.................10 grand today, or 40 grand 30 years from today......................

Do you need the $10K today? How would you use it if you got the check tomorrow?

[ghostguy123]

32 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Do you need the $10K today? How would you use it if you got the check tomorrow?

Strongly consider roth IRA.  Half now half next year.

[NutterButter]

10 today.   I hope you'll do better in a roth index fund than the rate getting it 30 years from now amounts to.  If not, we're all screwed.

[kutta]

I'm no expert, but I'd almost always chooes the money today instead of in the future. I just have no faith that the money will still be there in 30 years. Give me my dough now.

 

[Chadstroma]

1 hour ago, ghostguy123 said:

cmon folks.................10 grand today, or 40 grand 30 years from today......................

I think a big part of the answer to it is tax implications which I am not informed on but assuming there are no big tax implications then take the 10 now an invest it.

[ghostguy123]

12 minutes ago, kutta said:

I'm no expert, but I'd almost always chooes the money today instead of in the future. I just have no faith that the money will still be there in 30 years. Give me my dough now.

 

This is an excellent point, especially when i am leaning towards taking it now anyway.

[ghostguy123]

59 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

Do you need the $10K today? How would you use it if you got the check tomorrow?

Also considering for down payment on a second rental property

[FUBAR]

As Steve Miller once said, Go on, take the money and run. Hoo-hoo-hoo, go on, take the money and run. Go on, take the money and run
 

[Vincesanity]

8 hours ago, Random said:

Is this something you can expand on here?  I would love to know how you start slowly in this field.  Thanks.

There are typically 3-4 types of advisers/planners.

Work at a bank - salary and reduced commissions if any

A place like Edward Jones, Merrill Lynch, etc - starting salary for 2-3 years and commissions capped at usually 40% or so

There are places like TD Ameritrade or Fidelity, working in house for them but I don't know much about that.

Lastly you can be independent - no salary but 100% commission ( your actually commissions usually cap at 80-85% )

They all have pro's and con's....in my experience each one will match with your personality and how ambitious you are.  

The only one that allows you to be twin career and start part time is to be independent. The good thing is you can start slowly, the bad part is it takes time to build up income. The way the industry is going is most money management will be fee based going forward. To keep things simple if you are managing $1 million in assets after year one, charging an average of 1%, you'll gross $10,000 and if you are at 60% commission you'll net $6000. That isn't much to live on but the beauty of the industry is you maintain those clients/assets and continue to get paid each year. After 10 years if you're managing $30 million that's $300,000 gross each year....you get the picture. You can sell term insurance and financial plans to help supplement income as well but they're more icing on the cake. The majority of income comes from managing assets. 

 

It's hard to get started because it takes a few years to build up assets and produce an income. A saying in the field goes like this " You're underpaid the first 3 years, paid what you're worth the next 3 and overpaid the rest of your life". Maintaining the licenses and insurance isn't cheap ( $3-$4k a year ), offices, supplies, lead generation, etc etc. I think it's one of the best careers out there, you don't need a degree, licenses are key. There will be a lot of advisers leaving the field over the next 2 years, the average age of advisers is late 50's i believe and over the next 20 years there will be the greatest transfer of wealth we have ever seen. Great time to get started if you have the drive. 

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Any good cross platform personal finance apps? I'm Android, wife is iOS.

[Chemical X]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:41 PM, Vincesanity said:

There are typically 3-4 types of advisers/planners.

Work at a bank - salary and reduced commissions if any

A place like Edward Jones, Merrill Lynch, etc - starting salary for 2-3 years and commissions capped at usually 40% or so

There are places like TD Ameritrade or Fidelity, working in house for them but I don't know much about that.

Lastly you can be independent - no salary but 100% commission ( your actually commissions usually cap at 80-85% )

They all have pro's and con's....in my experience each one will match with your personality and how ambitious you are.  

The only one that allows you to be twin career and start part time is to be independent. The good thing is you can start slowly, the bad part is it takes time to build up income. The way the industry is going is most money management will be fee based going forward. To keep things simple if you are managing $1 million in assets after year one, charging an average of 1%, you'll gross $10,000 and if you are at 60% commission you'll net $6000. That isn't much to live on but the beauty of the industry is you maintain those clients/assets and continue to get paid each year. After 10 years if you're managing $30 million that's $300,000 gross each year....you get the picture. You can sell term insurance and financial plans to help supplement income as well but they're more icing on the cake. The majority of income comes from managing assets. 

 

It's hard to get started because it takes a few years to build up assets and produce an income. A saying in the field goes like this " You're underpaid the first 3 years, paid what you're worth the next 3 and overpaid the rest of your life". Maintaining the licenses and insurance isn't cheap ( $3-$4k a year ), offices, supplies, lead generation, etc etc. I think it's one of the best careers out there, you don't need a degree, licenses are key. There will be a lot of advisers leaving the field over the next 2 years, the average age of advisers is late 50's i believe and over the next 20 years there will be the greatest transfer of wealth we have ever seen. Great time to get started if you have the drive. 

 

good info here.  I haven't read the whole thread but, does anyone in this thread use a wealth mgr.?  I have been self managing via vanguard and am getting to the point when me and the wife are thinking about leaving and heading to Europe.  I would love a solid mgr. that doesn't pressure sell, but will sit down and give me a look.

 

tia

[Vincesanity]

8 hours ago, Chemical X said:

good info here.  I haven't read the whole thread but, does anyone in this thread use a wealth mgr.?  I have been self managing via vanguard and am getting to the point when me and the wife are thinking about leaving and heading to Europe.  I would love a solid mgr. that doesn't pressure sell, but will sit down and give me a look.

 

tia

What's your definition of a wealth manager? What are you specifically looking for?

[Binky The Doormat]

8 hours ago, Chemical X said:

good info here.  I haven't read the whole thread but, does anyone in this thread use a wealth mgr.?  I have been self managing via vanguard and am getting to the point when me and the wife are thinking about leaving and heading to Europe.  I would love a solid mgr. that doesn't pressure sell, but will sit down and give me a look.

 

tia

 

Vanguard has low cost, no pressure management advice.  Free (depending on amount you have), one time fee or you can have them manage it ...though the last option seems to defeat the purpose of Vanguard.

[Vincesanity]

I think they charge 0.3%