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20 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

Not sure exactly.  Isn't all of it considered income?  You just going to be paying federal right?   Probably roughly looking at 100k.   Does it really matter?   You're retirement is going to be pretty sweet as long as you have your health.

Yes, it will all be taxable (federal). Of course Florida has no state income tax.

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Well, today we paid off the last 22 years of our mortgage.  We sold/closed our investment property last week that we bought in 2013.  We did well on it and rolled that money up with some savings and p

My big win was in getting educated on personal finance, getting organized, and making a plan. Details: 1. Learned the value of an HSA and contributed for 2019 and 2020. 2. Got my wife’s

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On 5/2/2016 at 4:18 PM, No. 16 said:

What percentage of your current/final income do you guys expect/should you plan for your 401k to replace once you retire?

Less than you think.  To start on this you need to realize that a ton of the taxes you pay now just go away.  You no longer pay 7.7% SS+Medicare taxes, state income taxes, federal income taxes.  That is likely to be 25% right there.  Then you typically save some monies on gas, car upkeep, household jobs you now do instead of hiring out, business lunches.  All in I'd say a retiree starts at 70% or so, assuming that there isn't a lifestyle/travel explosion that happens.

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14 hours ago, Statcruncher said:

To be honest though it's broke people that flock to Ramsey. If these type of people follow his plan by the time they are wasting money paying off the house they have already: eliminated all debt except the house, have 3-6 months emergency fund, are investing 15% into retirement, and have funded college for their kids. I would say that's a resounding success given the clientele. While paying the house off may not be the absolute best way to use their newfound wealth, I can appreciate that he prefers to keep the ball rolling while these formerly broke people are still basking in their success.

Like I said- I am not opposed to his strategy outright but what I don't like is his one size fits all approach. He is very monotone in his approach and does not allow for any other approach that could actually benefit. There is no doubt that many people have benefited from listening to him. I have also been in conversations where people use his approach to their detriment because they won't listen to actual numbers and just have his voice echoing in their ears.

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13 hours ago, wittyusername said:

Financial guys I need some advice please.   I will be retiring next year after 30 years with the federal government.  I will be 63.  My retirement will consist of three things:  1) a Monthly Federal Pension (FSPS) check, 2) a monthly Social Security check,  and 3) a fixed monthly withdrawal from my Thrift Savings Plan (TSP).  So I will have 3 "spigots" of income which will total around $11,000/month (after health and life insurance is deducted).  My question is - is there any financial/tax calculators that can provide a good estimate of what my take home amount will be after taxes?  I am living in Florida.  I will eventually hire a tax accountant/financial advisor, but for now are there any software programs or on-line tools where I can input my #'s and have it provide me this "take home" estimate?  Thanks!

For that much income- hire a good tax advisor and he will walk you through and give you good advice on how to limit your tax exposure. I am sure it would be hard to take a walk down the block without stepping on three tax advisor/financial planners feet who specialize in exactly what you are looking for down in Florida.

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10 hours ago, wilked said:

Witty, got a spouse? Have you done survivorship planning if you kick the bucket next year?

With that much in retirement income, I am sure there are some decent assets currently (if not, WTH?!) which would make it pretty much a slam dunk to get a living trust among other estate planning done. We had all of ours done (wife and myself) done a few years back. It was free for me but the whole enchilada (will, living will, trust, poa, etc) would have cost a couple of grand. For the benefit of avoiding taxes and making things easier on loved ones- easily worth the cost to have a good estate lawyer work with you and draw up all the docs.

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15 hours ago, Statcruncher said:

To be honest though it's broke people that flock to Ramsey. If these type of people follow his plan by the time they are wasting money paying off the house they have already: eliminated all debt except the house, have 3-6 months emergency fund, are investing 15% into retirement, and have funded college for their kids. I would say that's a resounding success given the clientele. While paying the house off may not be the absolute best way to use their newfound wealth, I can appreciate that he prefers to keep the ball rolling while these formerly broke people are still basking in their success.

Exactly.  Most of these people either don't understand finance, don't care enough to make the best decision, or tend to lack discipline.  Most are fine people, we have a literal rocket scientist in this group among other highly educated people.  But they've made some bad decisions and are trying to get on track.  If I can help them do so, I'm in.  

Fwiw I don't follow his plan completely.  We use credit cards, pay them off every month and generally don't buy stuff we wouldn't with cash.  We also won't pay our house off before going above 15% into our retirement account (I put more than that into our tsp, though we'll be maxed by September).  But the principles work until you develop good financial habits.  

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34 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Like I said- I am not opposed to his strategy outright but what I don't like is his one size fits all approach. He is very monotone in his approach and does not allow for any other approach that could actually benefit. There is no doubt that many people have benefited from listening to him. I have also been in conversations where people use his approach to their detriment because they won't listen to actual numbers and just have his voice echoing in their ears.

Sure. But frankly if he gave an inch on his program many people would take a mile.   If you follow his program you won't lose.  You won't maximize, but he's selling safety,  not riches. 

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Just now, FUBAR said:

Sure. But frankly if he gave an inch on his program many people would take a mile.   If you follow his program you won't lose.  You won't maximize, but he's selling safety,  not riches. 

He is selling his riches. ;)

Again, it is helpful to many, many, many people. Most of those people are better off listening to him verbatim than they are doing what they did before. It is simple- that is why it works for so many people.

As someone who genuinely tries to help people in the financial services industry- it can be damn frustrating talking to someone who has bought into Ramsey hook, line and sinker because logic, math and general common sense mean nothing. It is all about what Ramsey says. Which makes me want to :wall:

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10 hours ago, Sand said:

 

On 5/2/2016 at 5:18 PM, No. 16 said:

What percentage of your current/final income do you guys expect/should you plan for your 401k to replace once you retire?

Less than you think.  To start on this you need to realize that a ton of the taxes you pay now just go away.  You no longer pay 7.7% SS+Medicare taxes, state income taxes, federal income taxes.  That is likely to be 25% right there.  Then you typically save some monies on gas, car upkeep, household jobs you now do instead of hiring out, business lunches.  All in I'd say a retiree starts at 70% or so, assuming that there isn't a lifestyle/travel explosion that happens.

401K withdrawals are treated like ordinary income, so you still have to pay federal and state income taxes (perhaps at a lower rate, but they don't just go away).

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Chadstroma, once again thank you for your help with my questions on my refi.  Was able to finally close, with a 3.5% 30 year rate.  Hopefully never to be done again, as (just I said 3 years ago) rates will never be lower.....haha.

Anyway, one question that I had.  Old mortgage and new mortgage were from the very same bank, BB&T.  I had built up an escrow account in the old mortgage of over $5k, which as you know was going to be used for upcoming taxes and insurance costs.  Well, with the new mortgage, at closing, I had to pony up a brand new $3,500 or so out of pocket to set up a new escrow account for those very same thing.  Now eventually I'll get the $5k from the old escrow account back (hopefully sooner rater than later), but why can't they just use the funds already there for the escrow on my new loan?  It's not like it's a new and different bank.  Can't they just transfer that?

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Just now, matttyl said:

Chadstroma, once again thank you for your help with my questions on my refi.  Was able to finally close, with a 3.5% 30 year rate.  Hopefully never to be done again, as (just I said 3 years ago) rates will never be lower.....haha.

Anyway, one question that I had.  Old mortgage and new mortgage were from the very same bank, BB&T.  I had built up an escrow account in the old mortgage of over $5k, which as you know was going to be used for upcoming taxes and insurance costs.  Well, with the new mortgage, at closing, I had to pony up a brand new $3,500 or so out of pocket to set up a new escrow account for those very same thing.  Now eventually I'll get the $5k from the old escrow account back (hopefully sooner rater than later), but why can't they just use the funds already there for the escrow on my new loan?  It's not like it's a new and different bank.  Can't they just transfer that?

They could. It may be a procedure or system thing for them. Perhaps the loan officer didn't do what he needed to do before closing to transfer it. I couldn't tell ya. This would be a lender specific thing.

For my current employer and most of my past- it would not be a problem when doing the same kind of loan. In some cases, I would not be able to (too complicated to go into the exacts of when I could and could not).

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2 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

They could. It may be a procedure or system thing for them. Perhaps the loan officer didn't do what he needed to do before closing to transfer it. I couldn't tell ya. This would be a lender specific thing.

For my current employer and most of my past- it would not be a problem when doing the same kind of loan. In some cases, I would not be able to (too complicated to go into the exacts of when I could and could not).

It just ticked me off that for a period of time I'm actually out a total of $8,500.  I know I'm getting the ~5k back, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.  I'm like "but you already have all my money that you no longer need sitting there."

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17 minutes ago, matttyl said:

It just ticked me off that for a period of time I'm actually out a total of $8,500.  I know I'm getting the ~5k back, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.  I'm like "but you already have all my money that you no longer need sitting there."

Yea, from what I know of your situation I believe we could do the transfer where I work in the same situation.... but there are situations where we can't and I have had to explain that to my customers- which is not fun.

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45 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Yea, from what I know of your situation I believe we could do the transfer where I work in the same situation.... but there are situations where we can't and I have had to explain that to my customers- which is not fun.

It is what it is.  They'll mail me a check for the $5k, and another for the extra mortgage payment I made on the old loan the day after the calculated the payoff amount (and didn't let me know). 

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8 hours ago, humpback said:

401K withdrawals are treated like ordinary income, so you still have to pay federal and state income taxes (perhaps at a lower rate, but they don't just go away).

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

 

10 hours ago, humpback said:

401K withdrawals are treated like ordinary income, so you still have to pay federal and state income taxes (perhaps at a lower rate, but they don't just go away).

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

Sure, if you pay the taxes on the conversion now you can make them go away in retirement, but you have to factor that in as well.  Obviously you can try to manage things to help reduce your burden, but the types of things in those links aren't feasible for the vast majority of people.

Also, this is dependent on preferential treatment of certain types of income, which can change at any time, and states usually don't give the same preferential treatment.  Of course, you could move to a state with no state income tax to avoid that.

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11 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

With that much in retirement income, I am sure there are some decent assets currently (if not, WTH?!) which would make it pretty much a slam dunk to get a living trust among other estate planning done. We had all of ours done (wife and myself) done a few years back. It was free for me but the whole enchilada (will, living will, trust, poa, etc) would have cost a couple of grand. For the benefit of avoiding taxes and making things easier on loved ones- easily worth the cost to have a good estate lawyer work with you and draw up all the docs.

Thanks for the tip - but I'm a little confused.  Do I need a tax accountant/advisor, a financial advisor, an estate lawyer - all of the above?  Is there some way I can find a one-stop comprehensive advisor, or do I need a combination?  Suggestions?

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1 hour ago, humpback said:

Sure, if you pay the taxes on the conversion now you can make them go away in retirement, but you have to factor that in as well.  Obviously you can try to manage things to help reduce your burden, but the types of things in those links aren't feasible for the vast majority of people.

Also, this is dependent on preferential treatment of certain types of income, which can change at any time, and states usually don't give the same preferential treatment.  Of course, you could move to a state with no state income tax to avoid that.

Not to regurgitate those articles, but if you are under income limits (depends on deductions, etc.) you never have to pay taxes on the conversion.

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1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

Is this whole Roth IRA ladder article just talking about a way to get money out of your IRA penalty free prior to reaching 59.5?  

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

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12 hours ago, wittyusername said:

Thanks for the tip - but I'm a little confused.  Do I need a tax accountant/advisor, a financial advisor, an estate lawyer - all of the above?  Is there some way I can find a one-stop comprehensive advisor, or do I need a combination?  Suggestions?

It depends really. The more assets and complexity of your situation the more you need more specialists to assist you. The smaller your assets and simplicity then just one could do the job mostly. There is some overlap in what these professionals do but some do things the others can't or don't specialize in. A really good financial planner may mean you don't need the tax advisor and depending on the situation an estate lawyer (though if you haven't had a trust set up yet- you are going to want to see an estate lawyer to write those docs up for you for sure as well as any others you haven't done... will, living will, etc). Depending on your investable assets- you could qualify for private banking. Private banking has teams of specialist that basically take care of everything for you. The lowest I have seen from any bank with one of these units is about $250K in investable assets. If that is a bit out of your reach right now- I would start with a financial planner. Ask around for referrals from friends, family and work associates that are in similar financial situations as you. Look for a fee based planner. They will work with you and then if need be they should have referrals to a tax person and/or lawyer that they have an ongoing relationship with.

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15 hours ago, Sand said:

Not to regurgitate those articles, but if you are under income limits (depends on deductions, etc.) you never have to pay taxes on the conversion.

I don't think it mentions state taxes at all, but it says right in the article that they have to pay taxes on the conversion (they keep it low because they assume the conversion is their only income for the year, which is another unrealistic assumption for the vast majority of people).

Again, most people can and should plan more than they do to minimize taxes, but that's very different from saying that you "no longer pay federal and state income taxes" in retirement- that's just not true for most people with decent incomes.

 

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20 hours ago, Sand said:

Managed correctly (start with rolling over that 401k to an IRA) you can dramatically reduce or eliminate taxes on these type of accounts by moving IRA monies over to a Roth tax free, then withdrawing from the Roth tax free.  Here is an example tax return showing 95k or so of income and paying 0 tax.   Good article on Roth IRA ladder.

If you haven't seen this it really opens the world of tax management and can allow for a significant amount of money being saved.

I was under the impression that you could only covert $5500 into a Roth IRA each year.....hmm

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14 hours ago, Sand said:

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

:thanks: these are great articles....need to study them some more

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

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1 hour ago, FUBAR said:

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

Commission is where money is made. For the flat fee based advisors, you have to see a lot of people to make money and if you are working for a company that means that they are taking a big chunk of that fee before it gets to you.

I am also a bit on the bearish side for the field. There is a major push towards roboadvisors and some of the stuff I have been reading is showing a fairly large and quick migration to that. I am wondering how much of a lucrative field it will be in the not too distant future.

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

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And for CFPs who aren't on a straight salary, the first few years are much more like a sales job instead of actual financial planning  (cold calling, organizing events to recruit clients, etc.) It's all about establishing that client base and grinding it out for awhile.

At least that's what I heard.

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Just now, eoMMan said:

And for CFPs who aren't on a straight salary, the first few years are much more like a sales job instead of actual financial planning  (cold calling, organizing events to recruit clients, etc.) It's all about establishing that client base and grinding it out for awhile.

At least that's what I heard.

True with the exception of starting at a retail bank brokerage but they typically do not hire (at least I have never seen it) unlicensed newbs. Either you already have your licenses or you 'moved up' through the retail side to gradually move from banker to licensed banker to advisor, a route which can take several years even if you are really good.

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On 6/3/2016 at 11:57 PM, Sand said:

Yes - link.   Another Link.    Just a way to possibly reduce taxes in early retirement.  Depends a lot on your income and deductions, but you can legally convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes.

These articles are a bit misleading.  Yes, if you have no other income and can structure your income such that it all comes from, say, Roth IRAs, muni bonds, and capital gains/qualified dividends, you can live tax-free.  But that's not most people.

Also, I think your comment about "convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes" is misleading as well.  If done correctly, you can access the converted Roth tax-free, yes, but you're paying taxes either on the conversion from the IRA (assuming it was a deductible IRA) or in the year you make the IRA contribution (assuming it was a nondeductible IRA).  I think backdoor Roths are a great tax planning tool and have advised people to do them, but your comments make it sound like nothing is ever taxed, which is really not the case.

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36 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Commission is where money is made. For the flat fee based advisors, you have to see a lot of people to make money and if you are working for a company that means that they are taking a big chunk of that fee before it gets to you.

I am also a bit on the bearish side for the field. There is a major push towards roboadvisors and some of the stuff I have been reading is showing a fairly large and quick migration to that. I am wondering how much of a lucrative field it will be in the not too distant future.

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

yep.  as much as I'd like to get into the field, it seems the best way for me to do anything there will be volunteer work, hosting classes and the like.

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2 hours ago, Steve Tasker said:

These articles are a bit misleading.  Yes, if you have no other income and can structure your income such that it all comes from, say, Roth IRAs, muni bonds, and capital gains/qualified dividends, you can live tax-free.  But that's not most people.

Also, I think your comment about "convert IRA funds to Roth funds and out after 5 years and not pay federal income taxes" is misleading as well.  If done correctly, you can access the converted Roth tax-free, yes, but you're paying taxes either on the conversion from the IRA (assuming it was a deductible IRA) or in the year you make the IRA contribution (assuming it was a nondeductible IRA).  I think backdoor Roths are a great tax planning tool and have advised people to do them, but your comments make it sound like nothing is ever taxed, which is really not the case.

But you're not paying taxes if you have no income to declare and the conversion is the same as your standard deduction right?  So if you're single and you convert $6300, you shouldn't have any federal taxes to pay right?  As you say, only a tiny portion of people could do this on a large scale, but if you had a few years racked up in a roth already or some other source on non-taxable income, you could save a few grand in taxes.  Nothing earth shattering.   

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1 hour ago, NutterButter said:

But you're not paying taxes if you have no income to declare and the conversion is the same as your standard deduction right?  So if you're single and you convert $6300, you shouldn't have any federal taxes to pay right?  As you say, only a tiny portion of people could do this on a large scale, but if you had a few years racked up in a roth already or some other source on non-taxable income, you could save a few grand in taxes.  Nothing earth shattering.   

Yes, it is possible.  It's just not very common or easy to pull off, that was my only complaint with those articles. 

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8 hours ago, FUBAR said:

yep.  as much as I'd like to get into the field, it seems the best way for me to do anything there will be volunteer work, hosting classes and the like.

If you want to slowly get started in the field shoot me a DM. You don't need to be a CFP to be a financial planner. The best overall in my opinion is to get your series 66 and series 7 license. This allows you to charge for financial plans, do fee based advising or commission based. Commission based is dying off with all the new regulations and I'm moving my business to fee based. It is a hard business to start in but it can be done. I would never work for a planner on salary. The beauty of the business is building residual income. That can be off assets or financial plans. If it's something that interests you don't give up on it. You can even start part time while doing something else ( best way actually ).

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9 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Insurance sales still seems to be solid though. I know several people who make good livings doing it. I have one client who worked for Metlife with income years of $250-500K in the last few years. Not your 'typical' but I saw his W-2's so I know it was real.

Yep, because they are fleecing their clients.  Hopefully the new fiduciary law will limit the excess waste in the field and enable clients to get investment vehicles that are in their best interest.  The whole industry is in a panic over lost jobs and profits, which is awesome for investors. 

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10 hours ago, FUBAR said:

So I called a local fee only advisor, one who is a fiduciary, the other day to discuss job prospects in the field.  We discuss education, the need to take and pass the CFP and an assortment of other letters which would be beneficial to a practice.  Good conversation overall until we get to the potential salary.  Now, his firm pays straight salary which is nice in many ways, they don't sell insurance or take commissions or anything else.  There's not even a quota as to an individual's clients and they often meet with a few advisors at a time depending on the client's needs.  IOW, there isn't a lot of risk or big incentive to push the service.  People there start out as a para-planner, sort of equivalent to a paralegal, helping set things up for the client.  The salary for that position (and this is after passing the CFP) is equivalent to the poverty level for a family of 4.  After working there for 6-10 years, your income would probably be in the 50th percentile in the area.  Of course, other businesses might be different and a solo practice might allow for more income with more risk.

That number was eye-opening to me and shows why there are so many different ways of trying to make money in the field.  Chad had commented about how you have to sell insurance to make a living in the field, that sure seems to be the case here. 

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever.  :2cents:

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6 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever.  :2cents:

Thanks, but my family does need to eat. Okay, it's not quite that bad but taking that big a drop just isn't worth it without better potential to make it worthwhile in the long run.  

I'm also not going to call the entire insurance field not-respectable.  Lots of agents make a bad reputation for the field but there are respectable people and companies in the field.  

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6 hours ago, Vincesanity said:

If you want to slowly get started in the field shoot me a DM. You don't need to be a CFP to be a financial planner. The best overall in my opinion is to get your series 66 and series 7 license. This allows you to charge for financial plans, do fee based advising or commission based. Commission based is dying off with all the new regulations and I'm moving my business to fee based. It is a hard business to start in but it can be done. I would never work for a planner on salary. The beauty of the business is building residual income. That can be off assets or financial plans. If it's something that interests you don't give up on it. You can even start part time while doing something else ( best way actually ).

Is this something you can expand on here?  I would love to know how you start slowly in this field.  Thanks.

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I sort of mentioned this a while back, but I have some money in a frozen pension plan from the first few years I worked at my original job.  I have switched jobs recently, so no longer with the company where I had the frozen pension plan.  Smallish amount, about $12,500.  I can just leave it sitting there while it builds up, estimated to be about $50,000 when I am 65 (36 now).  The lifetime annuities are not something I want to bother with.  It would be like 50 bucks a month if I took it now, and like 300 a month when I am 65.  I am not interested in either of those options.

I guess my question is, would you rather have $12,500 now (say 10 grand after taxes) or $50,000 about 30 years from now (say 40 grand after taxes).  Also, that $50,000 is also an approximation.  Who the heck knows what it will be or what tax rates will be.  However, if it is based on the market, I would tend to think I could do much better with $10,000 right now and letting it ride in the market for 30 years.  With around a 4% annual return in a roth IRA it would double up about three times over the course of 30 years, making it about 80 grand.  Even just doubling up twice would get it back to $40,000. 

I do not currently have a roth IRA, so was thinking of diversifying a bit that way, and using this money to do it.  I plan to continue to max out  my 403b contributions, so the idea of having some options based on tax rates later in life has some appeal.

Any other ideas for the money that dont include hookers and blow?  Another rental property has also crossed my mind.

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Not sure how much this has been discussed in the previous pages, (and if it has what page?) but I am in the process of buying my second rental home.  The first one has been a great and  smooth experience and I paid cash for the down payment.  For the second one I am going to dip into my equity line for the 20% down payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience in this or if its already been discussed could you point me to the page

 

 

thanks

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8 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

Based on your posts a fee only fiduciary is your calling.  You're honest, smart, and hard working. 

Who cares about the $, it's a good living and you have the check coming in every month.  Do what you want but also do it right, DO NOT sell insurance.  That is not a respectable field whatsoever.  :2cents:

I can't speak for the guy making $250-500K but I know several people that I have known for years that have very high levels of integrity and always seek to do what is right for their clients. They make decent income as a result (I have not asked how much specifically but from what I can tell enough to be solidly middle class in California). I also know from personal first hand experience that you can succeed in the financial services industry by being single minded on delivering the best possible outcomes for your customers since that is how I do business and I have always been 'one of the best' in what I have done. Simply because my customers know that I am seeking their benefit and not my own then they become loyal to me personally and often become unpaid salespeople on my benefit (referrals).  It is funny thought because this approach has me lose business all the time. Not just from things I don't recommend or try to sell but when I first come into contact with people, so many times they are so gun shy about listening to me. I know in their head they are thinking "what is the catch he isn't telling me?" when there is none. Just yesterday, I had a guy that I showed I could save him several hundred dollars from what he was doing now with almost no effort on his part- he just needed to say yes, give me his annual income and sign a doc. I broke it down for him and showed him exactly what it would save him and how. Assured him that there were no other 'catches' and how we would even get more benefits on things he already had with us as an extra bonus. The benefit for me? Just over $20. Not really worth the time and effort I put in to try to show him that it was in his interest. In the past (past because after this week I am moving to a new B2B sales position and my mind has already moved on), he would be the kind of person that I would push back on a bit more than I did. Not for the $20 but because once I win him over- he would really listen to my advice and when he needed anything he would come directly to me. That loyal customer is worth much more than $20 in the long run and you only gain those customers by doing what is right for them. More importantly, I need to be able to go home and sleep at night and I wouldn't be able to do that if I was screwing people over. I certainly wouldn't lump everyone or an industry in one group. It would be kind of like saying that all union members are lazy and worthless.

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15 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

Not sure how much this has been discussed in the previous pages, (and if it has what page?) but I am in the process of buying my second rental home.  The first one has been a great and  smooth experience and I paid cash for the down payment.  For the second one I am going to dip into my equity line for the 20% down payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience in this or if its already been discussed could you point me to the page

 

 

thanks

What exactly are you looking info regarding?

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Pro's:

  • Tax deductibility (not a tax expert but I believe the interest on loans for investment properties is not- meaning a loan using the investment property as collateral) 
  • Ability to leverage for my buying power and do what you want to do

Con's

  • HeLoan has higher rate (though maybe around the same for an investment property now)
  • HELOC is variable (though some have options to lock in balances but see above)
  • If things go bad and you foreclose the property, you are still paying on that money on your primary residence

 

For what it is worth, though a bit different that what you are doing, my plan for when we are ready to move from our house is to keep it (and keep the 3.25% 30 year fixed that I am 4 years into). I will rent it out. I will be using the equity to put the down on the new property that we buy.

 

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