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Libya is imploding (1 Viewer)

Alex P Keaton

Footballguy
Will Gadhafi remain in power?

CAIRO – After anti-government unrest spread to the Libyan capital and protesters seized military bases and weapons Sunday, Moammar Gadhafi's son went on state television to proclaim that his father remained in charge with the army's backing and would "fight until the last man, the last woman, the last bullet."Seif al-Islam Gadhafi, in the regime's first comments on the six days of demonstrations, warned the protesters that they risked igniting a civil war in which Libya's oil wealth "will be burned."The speech followed a fierce crackdown by security forces who fired on thousands of demonstrators and funeral marchers in the eastern city of Benghazi in a bloody cycle of violence that killed 60 people on Sunday alone, according to a doctor in one city hospital. Since the six days of unrest began, more than 200 people have been killed, according to medical officials, human rights groups and exiled dissidents.Lybia's response has been the harshest of any Arab country that has been wracked by the protests that toppled long-serving leaders in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt. But Gadhafi's son said his father would prevail."We are not Tunisia and Egypt," he said. "Moammar Gadhafi, our leader, is leading the battle in Tripoli, and we are with him."The armed forces are with him. Tens of thousands are heading here to be with him. We will fight until the last man, the last woman, the last bullet," he said in a rambling and sometimes confused speech of nearly 40 minutes.Although the elder Gadhafi did not appear, his son has often been put forward as the regime's face of reform.Western countries have expressed concern at the rising violence against demonstrators in Libya. British Foreign Secretary William Hague said he spoke to Seif al-Islam by phone and told him that the country must embark on "dialogue and implement reforms," the Foreign Office said.In his speech, the younger Gadhafi conceded the army made some mistakes during the protests because the troops were not trained to deal with demonstrators, but he added that the number of dead had been exaggerated, giving a death toll of 84.He offered to put forward reforms within days that he described as a "historic national initiative" and said the regime was willing to remove some restrictions and begin discussions for a constitution. He offered to change a number of laws, including those covering the media and the penal code.Dressed in a dark business suit and tie, Seif al-Islam wagged his finger frequently as he delivered his warnings. He said that if protests continued, Libya would slide back to "colonial" rule. "You will get Americans and European fleets coming your way and they will occupy you.He threatened to "eradicate the pockets of sedition" and said the army will play a main role in restoring order."There has to be a firm stand," he said. "This is not the Tunisian or Egyptian army."Protesters had seized some military bases, tanks and other weapons, he said, blaming Islamists, the media, thugs, drunks and drug abusers, foreigners — including Egyptians and Tunisians.He also admitted that the unrest had spread to Tripoli, with people firing in central Green Square before fleeing.The rebellion by Libyans frustrated with Gadhafi's more than 40 years of authoritarian rule has spread to more than a half-dozen eastern cities — but also to Tripoli, where secret police were heavily deployed on the streets of the city of 2 million.Armed security forces were seen on rooftops surrounding central Green Square, a witness said by telephone, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal. The witness added that a group of about 200 lawyers and judges were protesting inside a Tripoli courthouse, which was also surrounded by security forces.An exiled opposition leader in Cairo said hundreds of protesters were near the Bab al-Aziziya military camp where Gadhafi lives on Tripoli's outskirts of Tripoli. Faiz Jibril said his contacts inside Libya were also reporting that hundreds of protesters had gathered in another downtown plaza, Martyrs Square. In other setbacks for Gadhafi's regime, a major tribe in Libya was reported to have turned against him and Libya's representative to the Arab League said he resigned his post to protest the government's decision to fire on defiant demonstrators in Benghazi, the second-largest city. Khaled Abu Bakr, a resident of Sabratha, an ancient Roman city to the west, said protesters besieged the local security headquarters, driving out police and setting it on fire. Abu Bakr said residents are in charge, have set up neighborhood committees to secure their city. The Internet has been largely shut down, residents can no longer make international calls from land lines and journalists cannot work freely, but eyewitness reports trickling out of the country suggested that protesters were fighting back more forcefully against the Middle East's longest-serving leader. "We are not afraid. We won't turn back," said a teacher who identified herself only as Omneya. She said she was marching at the end of the funeral procession on a highway beside the Mediterranean and heard gunfire from two kilometers (just over a mile) away. "If we don't continue, this vile man would crush us with his tanks and bulldozers. If we don't, we won't ever be free," she said. Benghazi is "in a state of war," said Mohamed Abdul-Rahman, a 42-year-old merchant who described how some protesters burned a police headquarters. Protesters throwing firebombs and stones got on bulldozers and tried to storm a presidential compound from which troops had fired on the marchers, who included those carrying coffins of the dead from Saturday's unrest in the eastern city, a witness said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of fears of reprisal. The attempt was repulsed by armed forces in the compound, according to the witness and the official JANA news agency, which said a number of attackers and solders were killed. Later, however, a Benghazi resident said he received a telephone text message that an army battalion that appeared to be sympathetic to the demonstrators and led by a local officer was arriving to take over control of the compound, and urging civilians to get out of the way. Abdul-Rahman, the local merchant, said he saw the battalion chase the pro-Gadhafi militia out of the compound. In another key blow to Gadhafi, the Warfla tribe — the largest in Libya, has announced it is joining the protests, said Switzerland-based Libyan exile Fathi al-Warfali. Although it had longstanding animosity toward the Libyan leader, it had been neutral for most of the past two decades. Gadhafi has been trying to bring his country out of isolation, announcing in 2003 that he was abandoning his program for weapons of mass destruction, renouncing terrorism and compensating victims of the 1986 La Belle disco bombing in Berlin and the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am airliner over Lockerbie, Scotland. Those decisions opened the door for warmer relations with the West and the lifting of U.N. and U.S. sanctions. But Gadhafi continues to face allegations of human rights violations. Gadhafi has his own vast oil wealth and his response to protesters is less constrained by any alliances with the West than Egypt or Bahrain, both important U.S. allies. A doctor at one Benghazi hospital where many of the casualties were taken said 60 people were killed Sunday. U.S.-based Human Rights Watch said 173 people died — mostly in Benghazi — in three days of unrest from Thursday through Saturday. A Switzerland-based Libyan activist said 11 people were killed in the city of Beyida on Wednesday. A precise count of the dead has been difficult because of Libya's tight restrictions on reporting. The Benghazi doctor said his facility is out of supplies to treat the wounded. He spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal. He said his hospital treats most of the emergency cases in the city. Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said the Obama administration was "very concerned" about reports that Libyan security forces had fired on peaceful protesters in the eastern city of Benghazi. "We've condemned that violence," Rice told "Meet the Press" on NBC. "Our view is that in Libya, as throughout the region, peaceful protests need to be respected." State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said in a statement Sunday that the U.S. has raised strong objections with Foreign Minister Musa Kusa and other Libyan officials about the use of lethal force against demonstrators. In Cairo, Libya's Arab League representative Abdel-Monem al-Houni said he told the Foreign Ministry in Tripoli that he had "resigned from all his duties and joined the popular revolution." "As a Libyan citizen, I absolutely cannot be quiet about these crimes," he said, adding that he had renounced all links to the regime because of "my complete devotion to my people." Al-Houni was part of the group that carried out the coup in 1969 that brought Gadhafi to power. He later fell out with him, but they reconciled in 2000. Gadhafi then named him to the Arab League post. The Benghazi violence followed the same pattern as the Saturday crackdown, when witnesses said forces loyal to Gadhafi attacked mourners at a funeral for anti-government protesters. They were burying 35 marchers who were slain Friday by government forces. Sunday's defiant mourners chanted: "The people demand the removal of the regime," which became a mantra for protesters in Egypt and Tunisia. Hatred of Gadhafi's rule has grown in Benghazi in the past two decades. Anger has focused on the shooting deaths of about 1,200 inmates — most of them political prisoners — during prison riots in 1996. Libya has the largest proven oil reserves in Africa with 44 billion barrels as of January 2010, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, but it's still a relatively small player compared with other OPEC members. In January, OPEC said Libya produced 1.57 million barrels of oil per day. That puts it behind Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Venezuela, Nigeria and Angola. One major U.S. company that could be affected by unrest in Libya is Los Angeles-based Occidental Petroleum Corp. Occidental says it was the first to resume operations in the country after the U.S. began to lift sanctions in 2004. Last year, Occidental produced 13,000 barrels of oil, gas and liquids per day in Libya. In other sites of recent unrest, Yemen's embattled president offered Sunday to oversee a dialogue between the ruling party and the opposition to defuse the standoff with protesters demanding his ouster. The offer by the U.S.-backed Ali Abdullah Saleh — which opposition groups swiftly rejected — came as protests calling for his ouster continued in at least four cities around the country for the 11th straight day. A 17-year-old demonstrator was killed Sunday in the port of Aden when the army opened fire to disperse a march there, bringing the death toll to nine since the protests began.
 
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Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.

 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :hangover:
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
You really believe this?
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
The global economic recession has about 1000x more to do with this than twitter or facebook.
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
You really believe this?
I honestly do, yes. From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them, but they last because everyone is frightened of the alternative (chaos) and prefer security that dictatorship provides. Hannah Arendt's study of totalitarian regimes confirm this. Rebellions are easy to crush because there is no way to communicate between those who are rebelling- that's what destroyed the students in Tiennamen Square 20 years ago. They couldn't get their message to the mass of the Chinese people, who only knew what the government decided to tell them.The internet in general, and Facebook and Twitter specifically, have changed ALL of this. Now news travels with a speed that government authorities are unable to cope with. Clamping down becomes difficult or even impossible. It may turn out to be the single most important factor toward world freedom that human society has ever developed. Not kidding here.

 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
The global economic recession has about 1000x more to do with this than twitter or facebook.
We've had recessions before, and Great Depressions and economic meltdowns that make the current one look like almost nothing- and while changes in government certainly always occurred, the results were usually MORE dictatorships rather than less. Some people think that will be the result this time as well, and if so, I'd be incline to agree with you. But I have a feeling it won't. I think we're looking at something very very new here and the old models don't apply.

 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Why do you have any confidence that African and/or Middle Eastern countries will (A) desire and (B) implement free societies? These regions, and many others around the world, have centuries of history going from one dictator to another (or one corrupt gov't to another). If they wanted freedom, they would have given it to themselves by now. Their cultures will take a very very long time to change, and it's mostly tied to standard of living.
 
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Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :coffee:
Have conservatives stopped blaming Obama for "losing" Egypt? :popcorn:
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Why do you have any confidence that African and/or Middle Eastern countries will (A) desire and (B) implement free societies? These regions, and many others around the world, have centuries of history going from one dictator to another (or one corrupt gov't to another). If they wanted freedom, they would have given it to themselves by now. Their cultures will take a very very long time to change, and it's mostly tied to standard of living.
For the same reason I gave before: Facebook and Twitter. If I'm overstating their power here, then I will look foolish. But I don't think I am.
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing.

Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Why do you have any confidence that African and/or Middle Eastern countries will (A) desire and (B) implement free societies? These regions, and many others around the world, have centuries of history going from one dictator to another (or one corrupt gov't to another). If they wanted freedom, they would have given it to themselves by now. Their cultures will take a very very long time to change, and it's mostly tied to standard of living.
For the same reason I gave before: Facebook and Twitter. If I'm overstating their power here, then I will look foolish. But I don't think I am.
Agence France-Presse

Cairo, February 18, 2011

First Published: 18:42 IST(18/2/2011)

Last Updated: 18:43 IST(18/2/2011)

Egypt protest hero Wael Ghonim barred from stage

Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said.

Ghonim tried to take the stage in Tahrir, the epicentre of anti-regime protests that toppled President Hosni Mubarak, but men who appeared to be guarding influential Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi barred him from doing so.

Ghonim, who was angered by the episode, then left the square with his face hidden by an Egyptian flag.

Qaradawi gave a Friday sermon in the square, where hundreds of thousands of people gathered a week after Mubarak's fall, in which he called for Arab leaders to listen to their people.

Ghonim, Google's head of marketing for the Middle East and North Africa, administered a Facebook page that helped spark the uprising that toppled Mubarak's regime.

The 30-year-old also appeared in an emotional television interview shortly after he was released from police custody after 12 days in custody which is credited with re-energising the movement just as it seemed to be losing steam.

In an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" that aired on Sunday, Ghonim said the protests which led to Mubarak's ouster would not have happened without online social networks.

"If there was no social networks it would have never been sparked," he said.

"Because the whole thing before the revolution was the most critical thing. Without Facebook, without Twitter, without Google, without YouTube, this would have never happened."

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print/663996.aspx

© Copyright 2010 Hindustan Times
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :coffee:
Have conservatives stopped blaming Obama for "losing" Egypt? :popcorn:
:lmao: I'm not sure exactly which side you think I'm on here.
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :coffee:
Have conservatives stopped blaming Obama for "losing" Egypt? :popcorn:
I'm just happy the Democrat and Republican honks got in the thread so fast. I'd hate to see this thread be void of partisan slap-fighting.
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :coffee:
Have conservatives stopped blaming Obama for "losing" Egypt? :popcorn:
I'm just happy the Democrat and Republican honks got in the thread so fast. I'd hate to see this thread be void of partisan slap-fighting.
The important thing is that we all agree that Americans are really responsible for whatever happens in each of these countries.
 
If you think that 2011 is the most momentous year in human history, you need a little perspective.

1776 saw the birth of the American Revolution, with the idea that all men were created equal, and thus were entitled to political freedom AND it also saw the publication of the Wealth of Nations, the first economic treatise which explained the value of economic freedom.

2011 has a long way to go.

 
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If you think that 2011 is the most momentous year in human history, you need a little perspective. 1776 saw the birth of the American Revolution, with the idea that all men were created equal, and thus were entitled to political freedom AND it also saw the publication of the Wealth of Nations, the first economic treatise which explained the value of economic freedom.2011 has a long way to go.
I wrote A momentous year in human history, not THE momentous year in human history. There are others which have been far more momentous, including the one you mentioned. I'm just saying I have a feeling this one will be significant.
 
From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them
:goodposting:
This is not as silly or as obvious a statement as it sounds. Prior to the writings of Hannah Arendt, there was a strong feeling among political scientists that the majority of the world's people prefer dictatorships as the best form of government. Although this idea is less popular these days, it still is believed by some. They point out that, within 20 years after the fall of Communism, Russia allowed itself to be taken over by an authoritarian leader, Vladimir Putin. Are the Russians actually more comfortable with a strong leader than they are with freedom? I prefer not to believe this myself, but it may be true.
 
Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.
Have liberals started to acknowledge yet that Bush is responsible for bringing democracy to the Middle East? :popcorn:
Have conservatives stopped blaming Obama for "losing" Egypt? :popcorn:
I'm just happy the Democrat and Republican honks got in the thread so fast. I'd hate to see this thread be void of partisan slap-fighting.
:lmao: :goodposting:
 
From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them
:goodposting:
This is not as silly or as obvious a statement as it sounds. Prior to the writings of Hannah Arendt, there was a strong feeling among political scientists that the majority of the world's people prefer dictatorships as the best form of government. Although this idea is less popular these days, it still is believed by some. They point out that, within 20 years after the fall of Communism, Russia allowed itself to be taken over by an authoritarian leader, Vladimir Putin. Are the Russians actually more comfortable with a strong leader than they are with freedom? I prefer not to believe this myself, but it may be true.
The Chinese people are surprising content with their government...for now.
 
From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them
:goodposting:
This is not as silly or as obvious a statement as it sounds. Prior to the writings of Hannah Arendt, there was a strong feeling among political scientists that the majority of the world's people prefer dictatorships as the best form of government. Although this idea is less popular these days, it still is believed by some. They point out that, within 20 years after the fall of Communism, Russia allowed itself to be taken over by an authoritarian leader, Vladimir Putin. Are the Russians actually more comfortable with a strong leader than they are with freedom? I prefer not to believe this myself, but it may be true.
Cuba has been a tremendous economic failure, but some polls show that Cubans in Cuba are worried that they would lose education and health benefits if Cuba were to become free. An entire generation and more hasn't experienced anything else.
 
Everything very chaotic right now. There are stories that Ghaddafi has flown to Venezuela, and other that he has gone to his ancestral tribal home for a last ditch stand.

 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12531637

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/21/libya-protests-blood-fears-gone

With phonelines cut off all day, the internet connection patchy, and no foreign journalists allowed in, a news blackout on the ground disorientated residents who couldn't contact relatives. Reporters had to rely on accounts by human rights networks and exiled opposition activists.

But within hours, reports began to filter through about the deafening sound of military aircraft targeting demonstrators in what opposition groups warned was a "massacre". For the second night running, Gaddafi appeared to have deployed a shoot-to-kill policy to disperse the protests that had spread to the capital from the east of the country.

At least three people were killed in Tajura on the Tripoli's outskirts as military aircraft fired on protesters and bombed residential areas, according to one Libyan activist based in London who was in contact with Tripoli residents. Armed men in 4x4s were reportedly driving around the city amid sustained gun fire.
The violence seems to be spreading after the warning Muammar Gaddafi's son gave out a few days ago. However many military personnel don't seem to be abiding by it and are resigning their posts or defecting. http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE71K23020110221

VALLETTA, Feb 21 (Reuters) - Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said.

They said the two pilots, both colonels, took off from a base near Tripoli. One of them has requested political asylum.
Gaddafi supposedly burns his soldiers in their barracks for refusing to shoot protesters – GRAPHIC Video of the aftermath (about 44 sec in, rest is people's backs and then charred corpses, would need independent fact checking to confrim)http://www.libyafeb17.com/?p=1402

 
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<!--quoteo(post=12936072:date=Feb 20 2011, 08:34 PM:name=DiStefano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiStefano @ Feb 20 2011, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=12936072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you think that 2011 is the most momentous year in human history, you need a little perspective. 1776 saw the birth of the American Revolution, with the idea that all men were created equal, and thus were entitled to political freedom AND it also saw the publication of the Wealth of Nations, the first economic treatise which explained the value of economic freedom.2011 has a long way to go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I wrote A momentous year in human history, not THE momentous year in human history. There are others which have been far more momentous, including the one you mentioned. I'm just saying I have a feeling this one will be significant.
Gonna have to agree with Tim here, and it appears that the uprisings in Africa and the Middle East are only just beginning.
 
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Someone around here told me you don't use fighter planes for crowd control. Apparently no one has let Muammar in on that info.

I would say at this point it's only a question of when not if the protesters win. Gaddafi is so weak now that members of his government and military are openly defying his orders and calling for his ouster. He is even being accused of war crimes by his former cronies. He better get while the getting is good. And I'd say every member of his family better go with him.

 
The same things are happening in bahrain. Peaceful protesters were gunned gun for no reason. Skip to the 3 minute markhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9p6GQ7S51A&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1
That was unbelievable to watch. I wonder how long it will be before they have no internet access over there.
 
Gaddafi speaking now. It's one of the best examples of a rambling, incoherent, paranoid and insane dictator speeches I've ever heard. Do yourself a favor and find a transcript of this mess when it's available. Also, his voice sounds like what would happen if an alien from Mars Attacks and Hitler had a love child.

 
Gaddafi speaking now. It's one of the best examples of a rambling, incoherent, paranoid and insane dictator speeches I've ever heard. Do yourself a favor and find a transcript of this mess when it's available. Also, his voice sounds like what would happen if an alien from Mars Attacks and Hitler had a love child.
I'm sitting here hoping the translator just sucks at his job. It's just jibberish.
 
I had no idea we didn't take care of this guy back in the 80s. I thought he was living the life of Queen Elizabeth at this point with no power. Sometimes my own ignorances surprises even me.

 
5.49pm: Qassem Najaa, a former Libyan airforce colonel, tells Al Jazeera that the country's army has been oppressed by Gaddafi for years, and is now turning against him.
Quotes from Gaddafi's speech:
I haven't even started giving the orders to use bullets - any use of force against authority of state will be sentenced to death
Muammar Gaddafi is not the president, he is the leader of the revolution. He has nothing to lose. Revolution means sacrifice until the very end of your life
OK, so he's pretty much going to be hanging from a lamp post within the next couple of days, right?
 
'RnR said:
'mr. furley said:
'The_Burning_Bush said:
The same things are happening in bahrain. Peaceful protesters were gunned gun for no reason. Skip to the 3 minute markhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9p6GQ7S51A&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1
pass
Yeah, I don't recommend watching that unless you're prepared to see people killed dead in the streets.
It isn't pretty but that is what is happening. The video is from Bahrain, where only seven people have been killed, how much worse is it in Libya where hundreds have been killed?
 
Two Libyan fighter pilots defect, fly to Malta

VALLETTA (Reuters) – Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said.

They said the two pilots, both colonels, took off from a base near Tripoli. One of them has requested political asylum.

The pilots are being questioned by the Maltese police.

The two said they decided to fly to Malta after being ordered to bomb anti-government protesters in Libya's second largest city of Benghazi, the sources said.

Police were also questioning seven passengers who landed in European Union member state Malta from Libya on board two French-registered helicopters.

The government sources said the helicopters left Libya without authorization by the Libyan aviation authorities and that only one of the seven passengers -- who say they are French citizens -- had a passport.

A French Foreign Ministry spokesman could not immediately confirm the information as it was still being verified.

The four-decade rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has been shaken by days of violent protests which reached the capital Tripoli for the first time on Monday.
 
Two Libyan fighter pilots defect, fly to Malta

VALLETTA (Reuters) – Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said.

They said the two pilots, both colonels, took off from a base near Tripoli. One of them has requested political asylum.

The pilots are being questioned by the Maltese police.

The two said they decided to fly to Malta after being ordered to bomb anti-government protesters in Libya's second largest city of Benghazi, the sources said.

Police were also questioning seven passengers who landed in European Union member state Malta from Libya on board two French-registered helicopters.

The government sources said the helicopters left Libya without authorization by the Libyan aviation authorities and that only one of the seven passengers -- who say they are French citizens -- had a passport.

A French Foreign Ministry spokesman could not immediately confirm the information as it was still being verified.

The four-decade rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has been shaken by days of violent protests which reached the capital Tripoli for the first time on Monday.
Wow.
 
Someone needs to explain to me how this doesn't end with us bombing their military.
Unilaterally? No way.If Saudi Arabia were to shut down the oil shipments, we would be brought to our knees by $300 oil. How do you think they would feel about our going after an autocrat in an Arab country?
 
Someone needs to explain to me how this doesn't end with us bombing their military.
Unilaterally? No way.If Saudi Arabia were to shut down the oil shipments, we would be brought to our knees by $300 oil. How do you think they would feel about our going after an autocrat in an Arab country?
Can you explain this a bit more? I'm a little hazy on who is connected where right now. I thought Yemen was the most at risk for US interests as the Saudi's mainly supply Europe? Yemen oil is for the most part operated by big US oil?
 
I liked the bit where he said it wasn't the rebels fault, that they were young and had been given drugs by the U.S. that caused them to hallucinate.

Guy is mad as a bag of cats.

 

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