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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (7 Viewers)

I'm normally pretty forgiving of the WWE...but this show really missed the mark to me.

- I'm tired of champions losing constantly- I'm tired of the idea that EVERYONE needs to be on Mania (looks like a multi-team tag match)

- I'm tired of the faces swearing and acting like heels during the first hour

Orton really pushed the envelope of TV-PG tonight. If WWE wants to return to more Attitude era stuff, that's fine...but don't label your show TV-PG and family friendly. I'm very close to pulling the plug on letting my kids (6 and 8) watch RAW. I really don't want to comb through RAW and filter it for them the next night, so they might have to down-shift to Main Event and NXT since those are clean shows.

I really hope Mania comes together, but I'm feeling the doubt.
Totally... really dilutes everything... The Matadors get on TV once a month, how many PPV's do they do a year, and they have to be on wrestlemania?

If they relegate the Dust brothers to the pre show I"m gonna be pissed, those guys have earned that match at wrestlemania. And to do it so these jabronis can say they worked mania?
The Matadors check a box, if you know what I mean. (See also R-Truth)
Ironically the Bellas are Latina but they never push that angle.

Only if you are some sterotypical goof can you represent a race. Who was the last guy over independnet a racial gimmick? The Rock, who really go OVER in the Nation in the first place
They tried with Big E, but ya, there haven't been many other attempts. Maybe Kofi, although his upside was always limited due to his size.

 
Weird they'd have the Orton segment beginning of show. What I've never understood is having PG stuff later in the show (around 10-11pmEST) when kids should be in bed.

Wiz and weed references. Great choice WWE :unsure:

 
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How could anyone not enjoy HHH bringing up Dubya C Dubya (that died 14 years ago) to spark his Sting feud? :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

It's really depressing to think about how many times 4 performers (Brock/HHH/Sting/Taker) in the top 4 matches on this card have fought the past 12 months. Outside of Brock, none of these guys are draws whatsoever today. Taker's streak is gone. And so is his draw. Sting/HHH :yawn:

 
How could anyone not enjoy HHH bringing up Dubya C Dubya (that died 14 years ago) to spark his Sting feud? :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

It's really depressing to think about how many times 4 performers (Brock/HHH/Sting/Taker) in the top 4 matches on this card have fought the past 12 months. Outside of Brock, none of these guys are draws whatsoever today. Taker's streak is gone. And so is his draw. Sting/HHH :yawn:
This doesn't even take into account the mess that the Intercontinental match has become.

 
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts

 
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
Of those I only like Heenan, Austin and Piper. Heenan was brilliant as color comm.

 
First person to come to mind is Heenan.

Heyman, Flair, and The Rock are definitely the top 3 in order.

 
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yeah, Hogan isn't near that top tier IMO. Nor is Savage. In my view, as an entire body of work, Rick Flair is the greatest ever on the mic. Not for his incoherent rants in WWF/E, but when he was the champ back in the NWA days, stylin' and profilin'.. He was awesome at interacting with the audience.

 
First person to come to mind is Heenan.

Heyman, Flair, and The Rock are definitely the top 3 in order.
Actually thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd put The Rock there. Totally forgot about CM Punk, he and Heenan are neck and neck for 3rd.

 
First person to come to mind is Heenan.

Heyman, Flair, and The Rock are definitely the top 3 in order.
Actually thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd put The Rock there. Totally forgot about CM Punk, he and Heenan are neck and neck for 3rd.
Yeah, I always thought The Rock was overrated on the mic. A lot of his stuff was just gibberish. Punk was great on the mic, probably better than Rock. My top-4 in order would be, 1. Flair 2. Heenan 3. Heyman 4. Vince

If we just limited it to wrestlers, 1. Flair 2. Jericho 3. Foley 4. Piper

 
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
I can't see Hogan or Savage being in the 4th spot...and TBH, I can't see SCSA either. He was well spoken, but a bunch of "GIMME A HELL YEAH"s doesn't quite cut it for me. There has to be the ability to generate a reaction beyond a catchphrase, to advance the storyline. If I'm ranking them:

Tier 1 - Flair, Heyman

Tier 1A - Rock, Dusty, Piper, Jake Roberts, Heenan, Jericho (pick 2 of these 5 and you'd have a solid Mount Rushmore)

Tier 2 - Foley, Savage, Punk

Tier 3 - Austin, Graham, Warrior (if only because of the hilarious nature of his incoherency)

 
Will Brock be at these next two Raws? They desperately need to inject some heat in that match. Couple of showdowns, maybe a brawl, something please.

 
The beating that Orton laid down on Rollins was one of the worst I've seen in a while for a face on a heel. I actually felt a little sorry for Rollins (yes I know it's fake).

 
I somewhat base my ranking off "talk them into the building" type guys. That's what heyman is doing(even thought the show is sold)

So to that end, I put hogan up there. Can not deny that charisma even if the content lacked. He built a brand that is arguably one of the 3 most mainstream quotable wrestlers (say your prayers, take your vitamins, whatcha gonna do)

Flair has gotten there later in life, stone cold and that's the bottom line is there and I guess I have to put in do you smell what the rock is cooking.

Just behind, ooooooh yeah the macho man.

Hogan and savage almost suffer from overexposure and parody but when you really look at their work in a vacuum it's tremendous. And it DREW.

Dusty and to a lesser extent foley also deserve props for being fat ugly dudes who were over and drew. Really if you guys have never seen the "cane Dewey" promo, go you tube it. Probably the greatest promo in history. The mrs foleys baby boy stuff with jr is also amazing.

Punk belonged on the list in the discussion and so did jericho for his later heel work which was fantastic.

MY Mount Rushmore of talkers:

Brian pillman

Roberts

Flair

Jim cornette

 
I somewhat base my ranking off "talk them into the building" type guys. That's what heyman is doing(even thought the show is sold)

So to that end, I put hogan up there. Can not deny that charisma even if the content lacked. He built a brand that is arguably one of the 3 most mainstream quotable wrestlers (say your prayers, take your vitamins, whatcha gonna do)

Flair has gotten there later in life, stone cold and that's the bottom line is there and I guess I have to put in do you smell what the rock is cooking.

Just behind, ooooooh yeah the macho man.

Hogan and savage almost suffer from overexposure and parody but when you really look at their work in a vacuum it's tremendous. And it DREW.

Dusty and to a lesser extent foley also deserve props for being fat ugly dudes who were over and drew. Really if you guys have never seen the "cane Dewey" promo, go you tube it. Probably the greatest promo in history. The mrs foleys baby boy stuff with jr is also amazing.

Punk belonged on the list in the discussion and so did jericho for his later heel work which was fantastic.

MY Mount Rushmore of talkers:

Brian pillman

Roberts

Flair

Jim cornette
Pillman was amazing, and was probably my favorite wrestling character of all time. If not for injury issues, and unfortunately passing, I think he would have been right there with Austin in the attitude era. Even then, he's basically the godfather of it.

 
Tom Servo said:
Smack Tripper said:
Jayrok said:
Tom Servo said:
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can goDusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
I can't see Hogan or Savage being in the 4th spot...and TBH, I can't see SCSA either. He was well spoken, but a bunch of "GIMME A HELL YEAH"s doesn't quite cut it for me. There has to be the ability to generate a reaction beyond a catchphrase, to advance the storyline. If I'm ranking them:Tier 1 - Flair, Heyman

Tier 1A - Rock, Dusty, Piper, Jake Roberts, Heenan, Jericho (pick 2 of these 5 and you'd have a solid Mount Rushmore)

Tier 2 - Foley, Savage, Punk

Tier 3 - Austin, Graham, Warrior (if only because of the hilarious nature of his incoherency)
how soon is the Classy one forgotten . Freddie Blassie & even the Cap'n were monsters in their day
 
Tom Servo said:
Smack Tripper said:
Jayrok said:
Tom Servo said:
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can goDusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
I can't see Hogan or Savage being in the 4th spot...and TBH, I can't see SCSA either. He was well spoken, but a bunch of "GIMME A HELL YEAH"s doesn't quite cut it for me. There has to be the ability to generate a reaction beyond a catchphrase, to advance the storyline. If I'm ranking them:Tier 1 - Flair, Heyman

Tier 1A - Rock, Dusty, Piper, Jake Roberts, Heenan, Jericho (pick 2 of these 5 and you'd have a solid Mount Rushmore)

Tier 2 - Foley, Savage, Punk

Tier 3 - Austin, Graham, Warrior (if only because of the hilarious nature of his incoherency)
how soon is the Classy one forgotten . Freddie Blassie & even the Cap'n were monsters in their day
Well then don't forget the grand wizard... Who I see heyman taking the most from in this run

Mt Rushmore of managers is interesting.

I know Gary hart is on mine.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
The beating that Orton laid down on Rollins was one of the worst I've seen in a while for a face on a heel. I actually felt a little sorry for Rollins (yes I know it's fake).
I was actually thinking the same thing as I watching this. That whole show had an edge to it that I haven't seen from the company in a while and I liked it. But I am a big Attitude era fan.

I like the "Austin" treatment they are giving Orton. It makes his character a little more interesting.

I really understand some of the complaints from the parents. I almost wonder if they need to make one of the forms of the company more family friendly and one more PG-13. Say maybe NXT is PG-13 and RAW is more family friendly.

 
Angelico had to wrestle Ivilese with her boyfriend Son of Havoc as referee on Lucha Underground. Angelico combined the I don't want to hit the girl shtick with flirting with her - kissing her hand, caressing her back, etc. He accidentally kicked her in the head and then laid on top of her, forcing Son of Havoc to do the fastest three count I ever saw. :lmao:

 
Smack Tripper said:
Jayrok said:
Tom Servo said:
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold?

Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
Of those I only like Heenan, Austin and Piper. Heenan was brilliant as color comm.
I think Heenan was the greatest announcer ever.

The Royal Rumble with Flair in it (92?) was comedic genius. One time Pedro Morales saved "Chico" Santana from a beatdown...."Somebody call immigration!"

 
I somewhat base my ranking off "talk them into the building" type guys. That's what heyman is doing(even thought the show is sold)

So to that end, I put hogan up there. Can not deny that charisma even if the content lacked. He built a brand that is arguably one of the 3 most mainstream quotable wrestlers (say your prayers, take your vitamins, whatcha gonna do)

Flair has gotten there later in life, stone cold and that's the bottom line is there and I guess I have to put in do you smell what the rock is cooking.

Just behind, ooooooh yeah the macho man.

Hogan and savage almost suffer from overexposure and parody but when you really look at their work in a vacuum it's tremendous. And it DREW.

Dusty and to a lesser extent foley also deserve props for being fat ugly dudes who were over and drew. Really if you guys have never seen the "cane Dewey" promo, go you tube it. Probably the greatest promo in history. The mrs foleys baby boy stuff with jr is also amazing.

Punk belonged on the list in the discussion and so did jericho for his later heel work which was fantastic.

MY Mount Rushmore of talkers:

Brian pillman

Roberts

Flair

Jim cornette
Cornette's a good one and I still think that he could be as good as Heyman turned into if he wouldn't have been so reluctant to change with the industry. I still love listening to Cornette, but sometimes he sounds like a old man "Get off my lawn" type when it comes to his dislike in what wrestling has turned into. Cornette could talk circles around Heyman in the late 80's/early 90's. It's a good testament to Paul on how good he's become since running ECW.

 
Vince McMahon should probably be in the discussion. Jesse Ventura too.
Maybe it's just me, but I've always found Vince annoying from a commentator/announcer standpoint. I'm talking on the level of Eric Bischoff, in the same terms. Now, Vince as the evil owner is a different cat all together. After Montreal til the "Kiss My ###" club, we got to see a side of Vince that was a breathe of fresh air. And then the "Kiss My ###" club turned into a side I didn't want to see at all and he became annoying again.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Jayrok said:
Tom Servo said:
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold? Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
Of those I only like Heenan, Austin and Piper. Heenan was brilliant as color comm.
I think Heenan was the greatest announcer ever.

The Royal Rumble with Flair in it (92?) was comedic genius. One time Pedro Morales saved "Chico" Santana from a beatdown...."Somebody call immigration!"
My favorite Heenan quote might be when HBK threw Jannety through the barber shop window, in a dead serious tone he says something like "did you see that...Jannety jumped right through the window"

 
I somewhat base my ranking off "talk them into the building" type guys. That's what heyman is doing(even thought the show is sold)

So to that end, I put hogan up there. Can not deny that charisma even if the content lacked. He built a brand that is arguably one of the 3 most mainstream quotable wrestlers (say your prayers, take your vitamins, whatcha gonna do)

Flair has gotten there later in life, stone cold and that's the bottom line is there and I guess I have to put in do you smell what the rock is cooking.

Just behind, ooooooh yeah the macho man.

Hogan and savage almost suffer from overexposure and parody but when you really look at their work in a vacuum it's tremendous. And it DREW.

Dusty and to a lesser extent foley also deserve props for being fat ugly dudes who were over and drew. Really if you guys have never seen the "cane Dewey" promo, go you tube it. Probably the greatest promo in history. The mrs foleys baby boy stuff with jr is also amazing.

Punk belonged on the list in the discussion and so did jericho for his later heel work which was fantastic.

MY Mount Rushmore of talkers:

Brian pillman

Roberts

Flair

Jim cornette
Cornette's a good one and I still think that he could be as good as Heyman turned into if he wouldn't have been so reluctant to change with the industry. I still love listening to Cornette, but sometimes he sounds like a old man "Get off my lawn" type when it comes to his dislike in what wrestling has turned into.
Couldn't agree more with this.

Cornette got run out of WWF in the mid 90s because his southern rasslin' wasnt working and he's held a grudge ever since. He can't go 5 minutes w/o talking about Vince Russo (the writer who WWF chose over Cornette)

-----------------------

As far as managers, to me it's Heenan & then everyone else. Just feel he was always so versatile and could thrive in any role he was put in.

 
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Smack Tripper said:
Jayrok said:
Tom Servo said:
Tiger Fan said:
Heyman... :excited:
That might have been Heyman's best work ever
As someone commented at Deadspin, Heyman probably belongs on the Mount Rushmore of mic guys. Definitely him, Flair and the Rock.
:thumbup: who would consider 4th? Jericho comes to mind. Stone Cold? Don't forget the Big Show! j/k
You can go

Dusty

Foley

Piper

Austin

Savage

Hogan

Graham

Heenan

But I would go.... Jake Roberts
Of those I only like Heenan, Austin and Piper. Heenan was brilliant as color comm.
I think Heenan was the greatest announcer ever.

The Royal Rumble with Flair in it (92?) was comedic genius. One time Pedro Morales saved "Chico" Santana from a beatdown...."Somebody call immigration!"
My favorite Heenan quote might be when HBK threw Jannety through the barber shop window, in a dead serious tone he says something like "did you see that...Jannety jumped right through the window"
:lmao:

 
King Cuerno and Johnny Mundo in a cage! :excited:
Both good performers and decent match, but I disliked the camera work having to watch the match 'behind the cage'. Just didn't come off well for viewing at home IMO.

Lucha Underground has great production with their backstage segments.

 

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