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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (8 Viewers)

That's a great top 4 as far as promo cutters go.  Love the inclusion of Jake Roberts, who was tremendous.  Of course, there have been many other greats like Austin, Hogan, DiBiase, CM Punk and Piper.  I never liked Dusty, so it is hard for me to put him up there. 

And if we expand this to managers, Bobby Heenan is up there with the best of the best. 

 
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Speaking of Heenan, I recall that shoot he did in the early 2000s where he talked about guys they'd have to prep to get the perfect promo out of them (the pre-recorded ones we'd see on TV), and he said that Jake and Ted DiBiase were two guys who needed no help or prep.  Just turn the camera on and they'd nail it. 

 
So yesterday or day before AEW Women's wrestler Jade Cargill said a lot of hate she gets is because of her being black. 

She got some pushback as one could imagine for this. I can't claim to have seen people hating her do to skin color but its not like I've seen it or was looking at her socials or what people said. I've been to both Philly AEW shows and was at both NJPW shows in Philly over the last few yrs. Philly was one of AEW's first stops with Dynamite. Everyone I've talked to only time race was brought up was Brandi first show but it was nothing but kind words and people thinking it was great she has such a high role as a minority. Second show in OCT people talked about Red Velvet/Brandi and Jade. Only backlash I heard here and seen online is both RV and Jade are green in the ring. RV botches a lot and Jade should've had more training before debuting and fear because of her size (strength wise) AEW could get a NIA situation and were concerned about other women safety in the ring working with her. 

This isn't me saying Jade is lying but this is a slippery slope for Jade right now. She's not an established talent and has a long way to go in her career and this could show she can't take actual criticism of her well. 

Just to update this she deactivated her Twitter account today do to backlash. 

 
Tom Servo said:
My Mount Rushmore is kinda different, as I put a big emphasis on guys who can work the stick.  I don't know as I could limit it to four, but here's Hall of Fame of Wrestling Promo Cutters:

1. Flair - the GOAT IMO.  He made you believe that he darn well would do whatever was necessary to win and had the boasts to shove it in your face. 

2. Jake Roberts - this is an underrated one.  In an era where most every wrestler screamed, Jake took a completely different tack.  He was quiet and methodical in his promos.  He went for psychology rather than volume and it made him stick out.

3. Chris Jericho - this is about reinvention as much as promos.  Each time he developed a new persona, a new style of promo came with it.  His 1004 holds promo is much different than his cuts on the Pinnacle.  Age has something to do with it, but not totally.

4. The Rock - this one almost goes without saying.  He had catchphrases - which he'd change up and modify as needed.  I love his cuts on Cena back a decade or so ago; working in a Fruity Pebbles reference with respect to his merch as genius.  The promo on Billy Gunn was great as well.

The up and comer on this list is MJF without a doubt.  I don't see anyone in the same zip code as him right now.  He plays the Old School ##### heel to the point of wondering if he's like that IRL.  
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Great list. I would squeeze in Piper, maybe in place of Jake.  I liked Jake's style and character but finding it hard to remember a lot of his promos, which may be a signal when it comes to M. Rushmore of promo cutters... at least for me.  Piper was great at everything he did.  Fan favorite face but an awesome heel.  High energy in everything he did.  

 
Ghost Rider said:
That's a great top 4 as far as promo cutters go.  Love the inclusion of Jake Roberts, who was tremendous.  Of course, there have been many other greats like Austin, Hogan, DiBiase, CM Punk and Piper.  I never liked Dusty, so it is hard for me to put him up there. 

And if we expand this to managers, Bobby Heenan is up there with the best of the best. 
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Thanks GB.  If I was to construct a second tier, those guys plus Dusty would be in.  My issue with Punk is that there's no promo in my mind that sticks out other then the Pipebomb.  Dusty - while known for his Hard Times promo (one of the best ever) - he had other phrases and his personality helped him connect with the audience.  I'm thinking about when he mentioned he wasn't pretty, his butt was too big, etc.  People could relate to that IMO. 

I'm definitely not saying you're wrong for disliking Dusty - your opinion is your own and I respect that.  I will say if you have twitter, the account No Context Dusty has some of his quips and promos.  The same guy also does the No Context Flair account as well.

 
DJackson10 said:
So yesterday or day before AEW Women's wrestler Jade Cargill said a lot of hate she gets is because of her being black. 

This isn't me saying Jade is lying but this is a slippery slope for Jade right now. She's not an established talent and has a long way to go in her career and this could show she can't take actual criticism of her well. 

Just to update this she deactivated her Twitter account today do to backlash. 
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Both Jade and Red Velvet are green, I do agree with that.  Jade brings something to the women's division that wasn't there before - the Kamille-type woman; tall, athletic, and muscular.  In WWE, the closest you come to that is Charlotte.  Nyla Rose is different; she fits more of the Nia Jax role (sans botches); the male counterpart to that is Rhyno...an absolute hoss in the ring.

However, I doubt very seriously a promotion that seeks to be as inclusive as AEW and their fans are, that any number of fans that are racist would have to be a tiny, tiny minority.  We all have a trump card that we throw out in our attempt to defend ourselves.  Perhaps that's what she was trying to do.  It's probably not a good idea to throw stuff like that out there unless you're very sure that's the case.  So,  you get what you got here...

I will state that I'm generally not into muscular women, but dang if Jade isn't an attractive woman to me.

 
Bogart said:
So, based on social media by Gargano and Ciampa, Gargano's ring attire and his promo after War Games went off the air, sounds like this Tuesday will be Johnny Gargano's last night with NXT. 

Nothing official on what would be next for him, but Fightful is reporting  that many within WWE are operating under the assumption that neither Gargano or Kyle O'Reilly will be with the company after this week.
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Good send off for Gargano, and lesser extent O'Reilly, last night. Didn't really need the heel beatdown of Johnny, but hey, put someone over on your way out.

O'Reilly is pretty cut and dry. We probably see him on AEW just the moment his non-compete is up. And I'm excited for that.

Gargano isn't that clear. We know he is going to be a Dad in February, and the question will be how long does he want to stay home with the new baby. Even just a couple of months puts him out for six months. Based on how WWE social media seem to go overboard on the accolades and how it played out with HBK, I think Johnny ends up on Smackdown. Fantasy book: Ciampa shows up in the Royal Rumble and performs well enough to get the call up to Friday nights. Gets into a feud (maybe Usos?) where the numbers are against him, and by the summer Gargano shows up to even the odds. You can try DIY on the big stage and/or have them go their separate ways after. Use Gargano to tell the Daniel Bryan story over again and someone finally beats Roman Reigns by the WrestleMania in LA.

 
Bogart said:
Well, that's one way to take care of things. Crazy story, especially if true.
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Probably true. One of my Mexican friends who's been living here for yrs legally has family in that general area and talks about how corrupt everyone from the mayor to the DA to the police are. They are involved with one of the cartels down there. 

 
Bogart said:
Good send off for Gargano, and lesser extent O'Reilly, last night. Didn't really need the heel beatdown of Johnny, but hey, put someone over on your way out.

O'Reilly is pretty cut and dry. We probably see him on AEW just the moment his non-compete is up. And I'm excited for that.

Gargano isn't that clear. We know he is going to be a Dad in February, and the question will be how long does he want to stay home with the new baby. Even just a couple of months puts him out for six months. Based on how WWE social media seem to go overboard on the accolades and how it played out with HBK, I think Johnny ends up on Smackdown. Fantasy book: Ciampa shows up in the Royal Rumble and performs well enough to get the call up to Friday nights. Gets into a feud (maybe Usos?) where the numbers are against him, and by the summer Gargano shows up to even the odds. You can try DIY on the big stage and/or have them go their separate ways after. Use Gargano to tell the Daniel Bryan story over again and someone finally beats Roman Reigns by the WrestleMania in LA.
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I've heard Gargano is flat out down in wwe. This would be a good story line though. God its embarrassing how we can long term book a professional promotion then the people responsible themselves can do

 
Blackjack Lanza has passed away at 86. He was the Tag Partner of Blackjack Mulligan AKA Bray and Bo Father. Lanza after retiring spent time as a road agent in WWF including during the peak of The Attitude Era. 

BTW watching some of Those Attitude Era shows it's amazing how many backstage agents and crew you saw that are legends still involved. Getting physical, breaking up the brawls, Security detail etc. As a Kid never really appreciated it as much as I should've. 

 
Also I just caught up on AEW in the last day. Just want to go back to the promo between MJF & Punk. That was one of the best promos of 2 guys insulting one another I've ever seen. Some would say the WWE references were childish or whatever but I loved it. MJF using Punk's pipebombs and quitting WWE and Punk referring to MJF as a knockoff Miz the only way he'd be the company was if TK had a daughter he could eventually marry referencing Hunter obviously. I couldn't stop laughing the whole time. 

This is what happens when you give guys who can talk a hot mic. Maybe give them a few bullet points you want them to definitely get across in the promo but how they do it is up to them and don't script them. This is one of the big things holding WWE talent back the micromanaging of promos. Both got points across that made sense 

 
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Wasn't going to mention last week when Jeff Hardy left in the middle of a tag team match during a house show, leaving through the crowd, because it honestly looked like he might have had stomach issues and was trying his best not to be a distraction.

But it has come out today that WWE has released Hardy. Have no intentions to discuss where he might end up, I just hope the guy is okay mentally and physically.

 
Bogart said:
Wasn't going to mention last week when Jeff Hardy left in the middle of a tag team match during a house show, leaving through the crowd, because it honestly looked like he might have had stomach issues and was trying his best not to be a distraction.

But it has come out today that WWE has released Hardy. Have no intentions to discuss where he might end up, I just hope the guy is okay mentally and physically.
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Every time I see this about a public person I assume it's a polite way of saying he has diarrhea. :shrug:  

 
Tom Servo said:
Every time I see this about a public person I assume it's a polite way of saying he has diarrhea. :shrug:  
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Was going to say "bubble guts", but yeah, same.

It really did look that way. He looked coherent with the crowd and might have just needed to clean out his pants. 

 
Bogart said:
Wasn't going to mention last week when Jeff Hardy left in the middle of a tag team match during a house show, leaving through the crowd, because it honestly looked like he might have had stomach issues and was trying his best not to be a distraction.

But it has come out today that WWE has released Hardy. Have no intentions to discuss where he might end up, I just hope the guy is okay mentally and physically.
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Rumor is he may have intentionally did this to get out of his WWE contract. I hope thats not the case. Whatever happened we'll find out the story sooner or later. Just hope Jeff is OK but always said he was much better when he was with Matt in whatever company he was at as he had someone who genuinely had his back if he were to slip. 

 
Bogart said:
Was going to say "bubble guts", but yeah, same.

It really did look that way. He looked coherent with the crowd and might have just needed to clean out his pants. 
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Also it honestly looked like in the video he got hurt like his arm or something. A few speculated possible concussion 

 
Tom Servo said:
Thanks GB.  If I was to construct a second tier, those guys plus Dusty would be in.  My issue with Punk is that there's no promo in my mind that sticks out other then the Pipebomb.  Dusty - while known for his Hard Times promo (one of the best ever) - he had other phrases and his personality helped him connect with the audience.  I'm thinking about when he mentioned he wasn't pretty, his butt was too big, etc.  People could relate to that IMO. 

I'm definitely not saying you're wrong for disliking Dusty - your opinion is your own and I respect that.  I will say if you have twitter, the account No Context Dusty has some of his quips and promos.  The same guy also does the No Context Flair account as well.
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Appreciate the recs, but I have seen and heard enough outta Dusty Rhodes for one lifetime. More than enough really. :lol:  

 
Chris Jericho has been hospitalized - Fozzy tour date cancelled

Now that show has been nixed after an Instagram page belonging to the venue confirmed that the Ayatollah of Rock ‘n Rolla had been taken to hospital with a non-Covid 19 health issue.

They shared a message they claimed to have received from the band that read: “Chris was checked into Hospital by doctors, with a non Covid related, treatable health issue.

I hate to highlight that, but people like to make mountains out of molehills.

 
Bogart said:
Gargano isn't that clear. We know he is going to be a Dad in February, and the question will be how long does he want to stay home with the new baby. Even just a couple of months puts him out for six months. Based on how WWE social media seem to go overboard on the accolades and how it played out with HBK, I think Johnny ends up on Smackdown. 
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Forget all of this. Gargano has his merch back up on ProWrestlingTees, leaning into the Bet On Yourself and Outwork mottos. No way WWE allows this if he was coming back. Also, I haven't bought anything wrestling related since some DVDs back in the late 90s, but I might have to get one of these shirts.

 
Bogart said:
Forget all of this. Gargano has his merch back up on ProWrestlingTees, leaning into the Bet On Yourself and Outwork mottos. No way WWE allows this if he was coming back. Also, I haven't bought anything wrestling related since some DVDs back in the late 90s, but I might have to get one of these shirts.
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Gargano is reopening his twitch stream too. 

Also it looks like O'Reily doesn't have a no compete clause in his deal so he could debut in AEW as soon as Wednesday night next week 

 
The Observer says Hardy has a 90 day no compete clause. It ends March 9. They also reported Hardy was fully aware he was done with WWE if he didn't accept their rehab which is leading to rumors he refused intentionally to get out of his deal knowing he'd be released instead of suspended. 

 
Tom Servo said:
Apparently, the Hannibal from Hannibal TV was working a show and stabbed a referee to the point an artery was severed.  The video is graphic and NSFW.

Dude should be blackballed from the industry.

ETA: The first 7:30 of this video  summarizes everything quite nicely.
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Yeah, only saw a little bit of it. Is not good. Wrestling Twitter cancelled this D-bag sometime ago. Time for him to be out of the business.

 
RIP Jimmy Rave. The former ROH  legend who was in a Rock &Rage tag team in TNA with Lance Hoyt AKA Lance Archer. He'd go back to ROH after leaving TNA and eventually revealed himself as part of The S.C.U.M stable that fought against ROH. Kevin Steen would eventually turn on the group to help ROH win and keep Nigel McGuinness as match maker. Before that with Embassy he had longstanding feuds with Stars like CM Punk and AJ Styles in ROH. I had a chance to meet Rave yrs ago at an ROH show in Philly. From what I remember he was really nice and took care of the fans that day. He signed my program with a piece it had about him which I know is somewhere in the house. 

Rave have drug and other issues and had an infection that last year he announced on Twitter he had to retire as his arm needed to be amputated. about 2 months ago do to MRSA both Legs were amputated. Rave died today in Philadelphia no word on cause of death yet. Just 2 weeks ago Mic Foley raised $22K on a virtually fundraiser to help pay for medical expenses. Rave was living in Philly with Gabby Gilbert at the time of his death. His daughter Kaliah helped write the statement.  Rave was 39. Gone too soon. 

Former ROH Star Jimmy Rave dead at 39

 
Looks like Jeff Hardy passed a drug test per some sources. However WWE thought he relapsed offered Jeff Rehab. Jeff said no so WWE released Jeff and may have shot themselves in the foot. Heres Jeff with Matt and the fam on twitter. He was also pretty burned out from the WWE schedule again. Multiple people have suggested Jeff has been looking for ways to get out of his WWE contract as he hasn't been used properly since resigning. Sounds like just like Jon Moxley Jeffrey Nero Hardy pulled a fast one on Vince. 

Jeff Hardy looks great in House Hardy photo tweeted by Matt

 
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DJackson10 said:
Looks like Jeff Hardy passed a drug test per some sources. However WWE thought he relapsed offered Jeff Rehab. Jeff said no so WWE released Jeff and may have shot themselves in the foot. Heres Jeff with Matt and the fam on twitter. He was also pretty burned out from the WWE schedule again. Multiple people have suggested Jeff has been looking for ways to get out of his WWE contract as he hasn't been used properly since resigning. Sounds like just like Jon Moxley Jeffrey Nero Hardy pulled a fast one on Vince. 

Jeff Hardy looks great in House Hardy photo tweeted by Matt
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Yeah if the test is negative, and Matt seems pretty sure it will be, WWE jumped the gun. There are reports that people who saw Jeff backstage that night said he seemed sober. Jeff has some concert/meet and greets scheduled and I'm guessing he has 90 days before he can compete. So if he's in a good place he can get some rest and maybe we'll get to see him team with Matt in AEW.

 
NCCommish said:
Yeah if the test is negative, and Matt seems pretty sure it will be, WWE jumped the gun. There are reports that people who saw Jeff backstage that night said he seemed sober. Jeff has some concert/meet and greets scheduled and I'm guessing he has 90 days before he can compete. So if he's in a good place he can get some rest and maybe we'll get to see him team with Matt in AEW.
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Matt said Jeff was fine and he didn't need rehab but that WWE had helped Jeff back in 2019 and such. If Matt Says Jeff is fine I believe him because he'd be the first one saying Jeff needed help if he needed it. Most think Jeff was burnt out from the WWE schedule as well as the fact he wasn't used correctly. I heard unconfirmed rumor that WWE was probably gonna let Jeff go at the next round of cuts if they had one before Mania but nothing was really confirmed. 

Matt teased something about them getting back together and The Young Bucks did something similar too

 
Man, how many more WWE guys can AEW take, really?  Lots of original AEW guys gonna be crowded out, which let's face it, is a good thing.  Good on guys like Janela, Stunt, Kiss for being there at the beginning to get this thing started, but they really don't belong in this level of promotion.

O'Reily and Hardy, yes please!  Gargano?  Eh, whatever I guess.

 
coyote5 said:
Man, how many more WWE guys can AEW take, really?  Lots of original AEW guys gonna be crowded out, which let's face it, is a good thing.  Good on guys like Janela, Stunt, Kiss for being there at the beginning to get this thing started, but they really don't belong in this level of promotion.

O'Reily and Hardy, yes please!  Gargano?  Eh, whatever I guess.
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All 

Ex 

WWE

They keep signing anyone everyone.....but their rating is right where it was last year. Which has been their weakness from the beginning..   they've never actually built a product that'd bring in new viewers. Puke Daniel Bryan Stunk Big Show Christian Mark Henry ....expensive additions for zero movement in viewership 🤷

 
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Bogart said:
Kevin Owens resigns "excellent offer" with WWE

Good for him and his family. Hoping nothing but the best for him and I hope WWE uses him in the best ways possible. Would love to know if this was a Vince call, Hunter call, Bruce call, etc, but regardless, you have a perfect "pillar of WWE" for the next few years.
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Pretty dumb of KO to stay. He's been so underused. He could've went to NJPW and done even better. But it seems those resigning with WWE are just ok collecting a paycheck these days and staying with the status quo. Hope he doesn't regret his decision in a year or two. 

 
AEW Winter is Coming gave us 3 PPV matches for free. Danielson/Hangman was awesome Shide and Deeb was really good and this Dynamite Diamond ring match between MJF and Dante is great. MJF is so great on the mic. 

 
Tom Servo said:
They've been going back for forth for a few weeks now.
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Yeah but I think the Briscos will be coming in at some point. I think they need another legit Tag team AEW and they could really help. WOmen's division could use two more legit Females though as well. 

 
Brody King has signed with AEW per Cassidy Haynes of Bodyslam.net. King was teased in Maliaki Black's House of black promo teasing a new member. At the end he has someone in a hood kneeling and gives him a necklace similar to what Black wears. Black at the end bends over and whispers to the figure "You will now be known for more then just a king." Video goes black and they go back to live feed of Dynamite. 

Really excited about this as I've said Brody King is a great wrestler and would work well in the House of black. Black and King are PWG Tag Team Title holders as they won the Vacated belts in Dec. Tag Team name The Kings of The Black Throne 

 
Tony Khan announced today that there will be mens and womens Owen Hart Cup tournaments. 

AEW needed Owen video for a tribute. Rocky Romero used his connections at NJPW to score the video. 👍👍👍

 
katsuyori shibata announces he HAS A MATCH AT WrestleKingdom and I'm here for it!!!!!!!! Some of the best wrestling news in awhile 

 
I think one of the funniest wresting related stories is that Urban Meyer was fired after midnight on Wednesday possibly because Shad Khan was at Dynamite and didn't get around to firing him until after it was over.

 
UOFI_316 said:
I think one of the funniest wresting related stories is that Urban Meyer was fired after midnight on Wednesday possibly because Shad Khan was at Dynamite and didn't get around to firing him until after it was over.
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Priorities sir, priorities. 

 
UOFI_316 said:
I think one of the funniest wresting related stories is that Urban Meyer was fired after midnight on Wednesday possibly because Shad Khan was at Dynamite and didn't get around to firing him until after it was over.
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On the ESPN crawl, Shad had been thinking about it for weeks. 

 
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