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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
FBG's loved him. I don't know if they have backed off that any since the preseason. But anyone who did "Waldman's" upsidedown drafting, probably ended up with Ingram as a RB1 or RB2. The assumption was that if FBG's was right, they'd have a sleeper RB to anchor a powerhouse receiving corp. It has been frustrating for Ingram owners, but I think last week was a glimpse of things to come. He had no training camp or OTA's and it's tough for rookie RB's to acclimate. Had this been a normal offseason, Ingram would have broken out by now. I am tempering optimism, but I think he's only going to improve from here on out and find a higher steady floor in all formats.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
Probably best to wait until the year is out to criticize them. I don't think anyone knew what the carry split would be. Also, the early games were against passing offenses. Get them in games where they aren't in shoot-outs and maybe things will get better for Ingram. We've seen situations (Deangelo) where players start the season out poorly and then explode. Ingram very well could do that.The problem with Ingram is not a matter of him looking crappy. It's a matter of him not getting the ball. He's had some very impressive runs, despite the fact that he is a guy that probably needs it 15-20 carries a game to really become super effective.I called for 1000-1200 yards and 15 touchdowns. While that was very optimistic, he had goalline carries in week 1, should have had a goalline carry in week 2 (when sproles stepped out) and then got a touchdown in week 3. It's an explosive offense, and you would think he'll be given plenty of opportunities in games where they are blowing people out, which just hasn't happened yet.I still think 1,000 yards and 12 td's is possible, but much will depend on what Payton decides to do. In dynasty purposes, this is a great time to get Ingram. I know I went out and acquired him in one league just for that reason. In re-draft....yeah, I'd be a little nervous. But his upside is still off the charts.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
Probably best to wait until the year is out to criticize them. I don't think anyone knew what the carry split would be. Also, the early games were against passing offenses. Get them in games where they aren't in shoot-outs and maybe things will get better for Ingram. We've seen situations (Deangelo) where players start the season out poorly and then explode. Ingram very well could do that.The problem with Ingram is not a matter of him looking crappy. It's a matter of him not getting the ball. He's had some very impressive runs, despite the fact that he is a guy that probably needs it 15-20 carries a game to really become super effective.I called for 1000-1200 yards and 15 touchdowns. While that was very optimistic, he had goalline carries in week 1, should have had a goalline carry in week 2 (when sproles stepped out) and then got a touchdown in week 3. It's an explosive offense, and you would think he'll be given plenty of opportunities in games where they are blowing people out, which just hasn't happened yet.I still think 1,000 yards and 12 td's is possible, but much will depend on what Payton decides to do. In dynasty purposes, this is a great time to get Ingram. I know I went out and acquired him in one league just for that reason. In re-draft....yeah, I'd be a little nervous. But his upside is still off the charts.
I agree, and am still holding out hope. What irks me is all these know-it-all posters who ridicule people who drafted Ingram as a RB1/RB2, saying we should have known better, when this was exactly what FBG was advising us to do. Are we supposed to be able to trust FBG for the advice we are paying them for or not? How are we supposed to know, we are paying the experts to help us, not all of us are as smart as Scooby1974, so where are the rest of us supposed to get advice from, if not FBG?
If they are right 90% of the time and wrong 10% of the time, that is still a phenomenal hit rate. Just because you happened to get caught up in the 10% of the time they may be wrong isn't worth the #####ing and moaning you have done in this thread. I don't see any posts from you congratulating them when they help you the other 90% of the time... (the 90% and 10% numbers are random and not based in reality, but I'm guessing their hit rate is far above their miss rate regardless).As for Ingram, I think it depends on what the makeup of the rest of your team is. In redraft, I think that if you have a deep roster, he is one of the single best buy low players you currently could target, as I think he will have a very strong finish to the season (think something along the lines of Anthony Thomas' rookie season with the Bears). If you have a weak roster and currently own Ingram, you may need to look to trade him for less than I think he is worth for more short term production, as I think his best production won't come until at least the 2nd half of the season.If you play in keeper or dynasty leagues, I am still 100% convinced he is as strong a buy candidate as it gets. I am still a full on believer in his talent and expect him to perform as a top 5-8 RB for many, many years. If you can get him for anything less than that price because he has started a little slowly (at least slowly to those expecting him to explode out of the gate, which probably shouldn't have been the expectation in the first place), then consider it a gift and jump all over it. Everything I have seen from him (and I have watched every snap he has played this year) tells me that the talent is there and you see it in flashes. He is the type of player that needs 15 or more carries a game to truly be game breaking, but that time will come so I think the best advice is to grab him before it gets here.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.

The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).

33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
Last time I checked they dont play GB or HOU again this yr, and the next 6 weeks are: JAX, CAR, TB, IND, STL, TB. The Saints might not be playing from behind, at any point, in any of those games.
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So the first two weeks the consensus was he didn't produce because they were up against a good defense. Last week he didn't produce because they were up against a good offense. If we keep this up he will only have handful of favorable matchups left. Hope those teams are on the schedule sometime soon.

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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

Edited by GreenNGold
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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

I don't necessarily disagree, but a sample size of 2 catches on 2 passes isn't enough to judge one way or the other. I thought he produced pretty well with what he was given...only 9 carries but 40 yards and a touch..
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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

You seem bitter for some reason? Did you draft Ingram with overblown expectations? The guy is a rookie, who just scored a TD in his 3rd NFL game. The fact that he is seeing the field when the Saints have two very explosive, very capable backs says something about their view of Ingram.

I'd just like to add, I didn't buy into a lot of the hype here, and didn't watch a lot of Ingram at Alabama. That said, I've seen the majority of his NFL carries. From a unbiased standpoint, he looks like he lacks patience sometimes which I attribute to nerves and the desire to do too much with his touches, but the majority of his runs showcase vision and short speed that most NFL running backs just don't have. He will be a fine pro.

Edited by ike31197
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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

You seem bitter for some reason? Did you draft Ingram with overblown expectations? The guy is a rookie, who just scored a TD in his 3rd NFL game. The fact that he is seeing the field when the Saints have two very explosive, very capable backs says something about their view of Ingram.

I'd just like to add, I didn't buy into a lot of the hype here, and didn't watch a lot of Ingram at Alabama. That said, I've seen the majority of his NFL carries. From a unbiased standpoint, he looks like he lacks patience sometimes which I attribute to nerves and the desire to do too much with his touches, but the majority of his runs showcase vision and short speed that most NFL running backs just don't have. He will be a fine pro.

Yes, I drafted Ingram with the expectations that FBG gave me, which so far have turned out to be overblown, which I think is the cause of most of the bitterness in this thread. I am still trying to be patient and hopeful, but the excuses most people are making for him tend to be more delusional than based on reality.

Thanks for your insight.

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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

You seem bitter for some reason? Did you draft Ingram with overblown expectations? The guy is a rookie, who just scored a TD in his 3rd NFL game. The fact that he is seeing the field when the Saints have two very explosive, very capable backs says something about their view of Ingram.

I'd just like to add, I didn't buy into a lot of the hype here, and didn't watch a lot of Ingram at Alabama. That said, I've seen the majority of his NFL carries. From a unbiased standpoint, he looks like he lacks patience sometimes which I attribute to nerves and the desire to do too much with his touches, but the majority of his runs showcase vision and short speed that most NFL running backs just don't have. He will be a fine pro.

Yes, I drafted Ingram with the expectations that FBG gave me, which so far have turned out to be overblown, which I think is the cause of most of the bitterness in this thread. I am still trying to be patient and hopeful, but the excuses most people are making for him tend to be more delusional than based on reality.

Thanks for your insight.

Right now, he is the 37th rated running back in non-PPR leagues. One big game, he is right into that 20-25 sweet spot where FBG had him ranked. This isn't a situation like Matthews last year, who everyone expected to take over for LT and be the bell cow. Everyone knew the situation Ingram was coming into, but his talent is very apparent and the way the Saints have been using him speaks volumes about their faith in his talent. Barring injury, he will finish better than the 25th ranked RB this year, and he has the potential to do even more.

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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

lol. How ridiculous can you get?

The sample size for Ingram is ridiculously small. The only excuses for Ingram are that he isn't getting the number of touches. If he was putting up 20 carries for 65 yards routinely, then you may start having a point. Overreaction any?

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Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.

Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.

Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas?

Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.

You seem bitter for some reason? Did you draft Ingram with overblown expectations? The guy is a rookie, who just scored a TD in his 3rd NFL game. The fact that he is seeing the field when the Saints have two very explosive, very capable backs says something about their view of Ingram.

I'd just like to add, I didn't buy into a lot of the hype here, and didn't watch a lot of Ingram at Alabama. That said, I've seen the majority of his NFL carries. From a unbiased standpoint, he looks like he lacks patience sometimes which I attribute to nerves and the desire to do too much with his touches, but the majority of his runs showcase vision and short speed that most NFL running backs just don't have. He will be a fine pro.

Yes, I drafted Ingram with the expectations that FBG gave me, which so far have turned out to be overblown, which I think is the cause of most of the bitterness in this thread. I am still trying to be patient and hopeful, but the excuses most people are making for him tend to be more delusional than based on reality.

Thanks for your insight.

Right now, he is the 37th rated running back in non-PPR leagues. One big game, he is right into that 20-25 sweet spot where FBG had him ranked. This isn't a situation like Matthews last year, who everyone expected to take over for LT and be the bell cow. Everyone knew the situation Ingram was coming into, but his talent is very apparent and the way the Saints have been using him speaks volumes about their faith in his talent. Barring injury, he will finish better than the 25th ranked RB this year, and he has the potential to do even more.

I think Ingram would have been a poor selection as a RB1 in a redraft league, but I'm still confident that he'll be a top 20 rb this year, so rb2 is very possible. His numbers can only go up.

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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.

The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).

33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
FBG's loved him. I don't know if they have backed off that any since the preseason. But anyone who did "Waldman's" upsidedown drafting, probably ended up with Ingram as a RB1 or RB2. The assumption was that if FBG's was right, they'd have a sleeper RB to anchor a powerhouse receiving corp. It has been frustrating for Ingram owners, but I think last week was a glimpse of things to come. He had no training camp or OTA's and it's tough for rookie RB's to acclimate. Had this been a normal offseason, Ingram would have broken out by now. I am tempering optimism, but I think he's only going to improve from here on out and find a higher steady floor in all formats.
Upside-down drafting is about quantity, not quality, at RB. The goal is to draft multiple high upside guys and hope that you get 1 or 2 productive RBs out of it. Anyone that went upside-down and was assuming Ingram would be a RB1 missed the point.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.

The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).

33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
FBG's loved him. I don't know if they have backed off that any since the preseason. But anyone who did "Waldman's" upsidedown drafting, probably ended up with Ingram as a RB1 or RB2. The assumption was that if FBG's was right, they'd have a sleeper RB to anchor a powerhouse receiving corp. It has been frustrating for Ingram owners, but I think last week was a glimpse of things to come. He had no training camp or OTA's and it's tough for rookie RB's to acclimate. Had this been a normal offseason, Ingram would have broken out by now. I am tempering optimism, but I think he's only going to improve from here on out and find a higher steady floor in all formats.
Upside-down drafting is about quantity, not quality, at RB. The goal is to draft multiple high upside guys and hope that you get 1 or 2 productive RBs out of it. Anyone that went upside-down and was assuming Ingram would be a RB1 missed the point.
Very well said. I did this last year with Matthews. Learned my lesson. If you're even counting on a rookie as a RB 2, then you're doing it wrong.
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Very well said. I did this last year with Matthews. Learned my lesson. If you're even counting on a rookie as a RB 2, then you're doing it wrong.

I know that now, but here are some FBG quotes from the pre-season.

Jason Wood: "Mark Ingram is one of the running backs that can make your team a championship contender in 2011, thanks to a combination of great talent, a great situation, and misplaced skepticism which is keeping his average draft position lower than it should be."

This is what FBG said about drafting a rookie RB:

Misconception #1 --- Rookie RBs are a bad investment

Fantasy football owners have short memories. It's a "what have you done for me lately" mindset for most of them, and that's often an opportunity for the more astute of you who can look back at history. While the last few seasons haven't produced an immediate star rookie RB, there's plenty of precedent to suggest it's been a fluke. In fact, it wasn't that long ago that if a rookie RB struggled; it was a condemnation on their overall future. After all, the RB position is one of the most instinctive --- and that's why rookie tailbacks have historically been able to step right in and make an impact.

* Matt Forte finished RB4 as a rookie in 2008

* Steve Slaton finished RB6 as a rookie in the same year

* Chris Johnson wasn't a top 10 RB as a rookie, but he was RB11 (in 2008)

* Adrian Peterson finished as the #3 fantasy RB in 2007

* Marshawn Lynch was RB12 in 2007

* Maurice Jones-Drew was the #8 RB in 2006

* Joseph Addai was RB11, also in 2006

So let's recap, although the rookie RBs in 2009 and 2010 didn't produce elite stats out of the gate, the three prior seasons were terrific. 7 rookie RBs produced fantasy RB1 numbers over those three seasons, an enviable hit rate.

Final thoughts

I am salivating at the prospect of Mark Ingram being available all the way to the 52nd pick, which is where his current Average Draft Position sits as I write this Spotlight. To think I'll be able to secure an NFL ready feature back on a potent offense, in need of his skills, in the 4th or 5th round is almost too good to be true. Simply put, too many people are being myopic about the last two years and forgetting that rookie RBs have traditionally been excellent fantasy options -- particularly those of Ingram's caliber. I won't be at all surprised to see Ingram deliver Top 10 numbers this year, and yet you'll be able to target him as your RB2. That's the way you win fantasy championships.

Source: http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/spotlight.php?yr=2011&id=IngrMa01

From his pre-season player page:

Why he is undervalued:

Sigmund Bloom - Forget about Sean Payton's history of not having a feature back. He's never had a back like Ingram before. The Saints probably have the best internal offensive line in the league and they routinely produced 20+ RB touchdowns a season before last year's debacle of a backfield. Ingram has wowed all camp observers and should hit the ground running as an RB2 with top 10 RB upside. Take him in the third round if you have to.

Anthony Borbely - Ingram is the unquestioned starting RB for a team with a powerhouse offense. He will be the goal line back and that should give him a great chance at double-digit TDs. Although Darren Sproles will see some time in obvious passing situations, Ingram should still get more than enough touches to be a viable upper-level RB2. A RB like that normally goes in the second round. Ingram offers great value at his ADP of 50, even for those that are skeptical.

Jene Bramel - Ingram's ADP continues to climb as fantasy owners continue to read reports of Ingram's strong play in camp. But it's still way, way too low. Don't fuss over the presence of Darren Sproles or Pierre Thomas or concerns that Sean Payton's spread offense will throw the ball 600 times whether Ingram is capable or not. This offense will be balanced and the vast majority of carries will go to Ingram. There's room for 300 or more touches for Ingram this year and lots of goal line work. Shonn Greene, Knowshon Moreno, DeAngelo Williams, Ryan Mathews and others have better ADPs but are a full tier behind Ingram for me. Get it in your mind that Ingram belongs alongside Frank Gore, Rashard Mendenhall and Darren McFadden in the deep second tier of fantasy running backs now and you'll be ready to take him with the mid-second to mid-third round pick of which he's deserving.

Mike Brown - The Saints didn't select Ingram to make him part of a committee and turn him into the new Reggie Bush. New Orleans was frustrated that Bush was never able to become a featured back, which is why they drafted a player with excellent vision (something Bush seemed to lack at times in the NFL game). He'll be the team's bell cow, so to speak, and should relegate Pierre Thomas to a bench role. Ingram is excellent around the goal line, and really has a chance at RB1 status as soon as this season.

David Dodds - I believe the New Orleans Saints are a team in transition. Although they have had tremendous success throwing a lot more than more running, I think the days of abandoning the run are over starting now. And the reason for this is the skill set that rookie RB Mark Ingram brings to the table. This shortened preseason has kept him under the radar, but that won't be the case once the games are played. On this offense, he could easily finish as a top 10 RB in 2011.

Will Grant - Rookie RBs are sometimes a crap shoot, but Ingram is not your typical rookie RB. He's been having a great pre-season and he scored a TD in the first pre-season game for the Saints. Ingram's going to be a great play this season, and he makes an excellent RB2.

Ryan Hester - Going into this fantasy draft season, it was thought that Mark Ingram might be a polarizing player. Sean Payton never gives one guy a ton of carries; New Orleans is a passing team; Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles! However, with reports coming nearly daily that Ingram is running with the one's in camp and performing quite admirably, he may start shooting up draft boards soon. That's bad news for value-seekers -- the folks who thought things like, "they didn't draft him in the 1st to be a split carries guy." People who thought that way will be right. Ingram was drafted like a starter. Pierre Thomas is paid like a backup. Sproles is a change-of-pace back that almost every NFL team has anyway (so touches lost to him are the same as 75% of the league's #1 RBs). Get Ingram and be happy.

Dave Larkin - If Jason Wood's spotlight on Mark Ingram didn't convince you that this kid is bound to be a superstar in this league, then I don't know what will. Ingram has all the physical tools to be an elite player in the league for many years. He knows how to set up defenses at the second level before making his first cut and has speed to burn when he finds a crease. His running style is downhill and urgent and there is no reason why he can't be a low-end RB1 for your team this year.

Aaron Rudnicki - It's rare that a RB as good as Ingram lands on one of the best offenses in the league and finds no real established incumbent to compete with. One example that comes to mind for me is Edgerrin James with the Colts after they traded Marshall Faulk to the Rams, and all James did is finish as the #1 RB in the league. Well, I don't expect Ingram to have that type of impact but it does seem reasonable to believe that he can be a RB1 for your fantasy team. He was a workhorse while playing in an NFL-style offense in college and players like Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory are probably better suited for backup roles anyway. Darren Sproles is on hand to handle the 3rd down duties, but Ingram should still have a shot at 250 carries and double digit touchdowns. He probably won't remain a value for long so don't be afraid to take him a bit earlier than this if you have a chance.

Chris Smith - I love the combination of skills that Mark Ingram possesses. He has all the tools in the shed to become a top level fantasy running back. Owners are worried about the Saints platooning the backs. Don't be as Ingram will emerge as the man.

Matt Waldman - Late last fall Sigmund Bloom asked me on the Audible who I though the best offensive player in the draft was. He tried to lead the question by saying the choice was obvious. I think I surprised him when I didn't mentioned A.J. Green and opted for Mark Ingram. Granted, Green could wind up the best offensive player in this draft, but Ingram is a beast of a runner. Forget physical skills for a moment. What makes him special is his excellent vision at setting up his runs 2-3 steps ahead of his opponents. Now throw in franchise caliber balance, power, and a strong burst from his cuts. He's a top-12 back. If you are thinking the Saints won't show that kind of commitment to the run with just one back then I implore you to read Jason Woods's spotlight on Ingram.

Jason Wood - Mark Ingram is being penalized for what other backs are incapable of. The fact that the 2009-2010 rookie crops failed to produce an immediate star has fantasy owners wondering if rookie RBs are no longer a good bet. Yet 2006-2008 produced a ton of top tier rookie RBs. Ingram is a prototypical feature back, and would've been considered a better pro prospect than anyone that came out in the last two seasons. Similarly, fantasy owners are looking at the Saints committee approach as a reason to avoid Ingram. Foolishness. Sean Payton has used a committee because he's had no choice, not because it's his doctrine. Ingram has the skills, mentality and build to be a 20 touch per game back, and Payton will not keep him on the bench just to give touches to an inferior alternative.

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Upside-down drafting is about quantity, not quality, at RB. The goal is to draft multiple high upside guys and hope that you get 1 or 2 productive RBs out of it. Anyone that went upside-down and was assuming Ingram would be a RB1 missed the point.

I did take quantity over quality. And I lucked out getting F. Jackson as my RB4, but struck out on my RB1 and RB3 (Deangelo Williams and Reggie Bush). Now I just am hoping that Ingram can be a solid RB2. If that happens, Waldman's theory will have worked out.
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That's what it's all about. I also ended up with Fred Jackson as my #1 using this theory in a 12 team non-PPR. Took Brady as my QB and got Welker, Nicks, BLloyd and AJ Green. Ingram was acquired in a trade involving a sell high on Hightower. Looking forward to seeing how the season works out. So far so good.

Edited by RavenLunatic
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The Jaguars have allowed just one rushing touchdown and no receiving scores to RBs in 2011. RBs are averaging 3.0 yards per carry against Jacksonville, which is tied for third lowest in the NFL.

goodluck to anyone starting Ingram this week.

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The Jaguars have allowed just one rushing touchdown and no receiving scores to RBs in 2011. RBs are averaging 3.0 yards per carry against Jacksonville, which is tied for third lowest in the NFL.goodluck to anyone starting Ingram this week.

According to NFL.com, the Jags are 5th in lowest rushing YPG, and they are 9th giving up 3.4yds/rush.While are face value these are good numbers, the RBs theyve faced are CJ, Greene, and DWill/JStew, all of these RBs have yet to have a good game vs anyone yet this year. Stewart did actually avg 5.9yds/rush last week (10/59) vs Jax. The one TD you mention was Greene, and that is the only TD scored by these 4 RBs after 3 weeks as well.So while its not the greatest matchup for Ingram, I wouldnt let the Jags run D be the reason why I bench him either.
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.
Problem is when he is on the field it's obvious what the Saints are doing. I think they tried to pass him the ball to make the opposition have a doubt but they were poorly constructed. Ingram needs some balls out in the flat and let him clobber the opponent.
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PFF has Ingram as a buy low still:

RB Mark Ingram – Saints

Week 3 Stats: 9 Att, 38 Yds, 1 TD, 2 Rec (2 Tgts), -3 Yds

Thankfully for those not owning Ingram, he is having the worst season of the three Saints running backs. Although he finally scored a touchdown, his 3.6 yards per carry is a team worst among running backs. Of the three, he is the only one rated negatively (-1.4) in the running game, and he still ranks last in total snaps – Darren Sproles 96, Pierre Thomas 73 and Mark Ingram 61. If the touchdown wasn’t enough to get Ingram owners excited about what lies ahead, allow me to show you the positive signs and why he’s still someone you should target.

Each game has ended very favorable for Ingram, and I’m almost ready to start calling him the NFL’s Mariano Rivera. In week one, the Saints trailed by eight and were one yard away from the end-zone. Instead of allowing Brees to throw it for the 50th time, the ball was handed to Ingram.

Unfortunately he did not convert. The following week he had another moment of failure when he was trusted to grind out yards and run out the clock. On his second carry, of what they hoped would be the final drive, he fumbled the ball away. The promising point to take away is he was given the game’s final two carries after they got the ball back. Finally, he closed out last week’s game-winning drive by scoring from 13 yards out. After Houston turned the ball over on downs, Ingram got all three carries in attempt to close the game, although he failed to convert a first down.

Think of the positive but use the negative as leverage to still buy low.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/30/fantasy-football-stock-market-week-4/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, it's not just FBG that thinks Ingram is a buy low.

Edited by netnalp
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PFF has Ingram as a buy low still:

RB Mark Ingram – Saints

Week 3 Stats: 9 Att, 38 Yds, 1 TD, 2 Rec (2 Tgts), -3 Yds

Thankfully for those not owning Ingram, he is having the worst season of the three Saints running backs. Although he finally scored a touchdown, his 3.6 yards per carry is a team worst among running backs. Of the three, he is the only one rated negatively (-1.4) in the running game, and he still ranks last in total snaps – Darren Sproles 96, Pierre Thomas 73 and Mark Ingram 61. If the touchdown wasn’t enough to get Ingram owners excited about what lies ahead, allow me to show you the positive signs and why he’s still someone you should target.

Each game has ended very favorable for Ingram, and I’m almost ready to start calling him the NFL’s Mariano Rivera. In week one, the Saints trailed by eight and were one yard away from the end-zone. Instead of allowing Brees to throw it for the 50th time, the ball was handed to Ingram.

Unfortunately he did not convert. The following week he had another moment of failure when he was trusted to grind out yards and run out the clock. On his second carry, of what they hoped would be the final drive, he fumbled the ball away. The promising point to take away is he was given the game’s final two carries after they got the ball back. Finally, he closed out last week’s game-winning drive by scoring from 13 yards out. After Houston turned the ball over on downs, Ingram got all three carries in attempt to close the game, although he failed to convert a first down.

Think of the positive but use the negative as leverage to still buy low.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/30/fantasy-football-stock-market-week-4/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, it's not just FBG that thinks Ingram is a buy low.

So the positive is that he has failed almost every time they have given him meaningful work? The kicker is players don't keep getting that kind of work when they keep failing.

That article is a nice glass half full type of article, too bad the conclusions it draws are ridiculous.

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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
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So the positive is that he has failed almost every time they have given him meaningful work? The kicker is players don't keep getting that kind of work when they keep failing.That article is a nice glass half full type of article, too bad the conclusions it draws are ridiculous.

Could indicate that the team still has confidence in the player and doesn't place all the blame on Ingram or the failures are things the team feels are correctable and not due to a lack of talent.Bradshaw for example, still gets work despite having done poorly in short yardage so far this season. Edited by netnalp
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
Epic failure after three games? Wow, this post is most likely going to come back to embarrass you at some point.
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
That's anecdotal. Have you watched him run?
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
you recognize frauds AND have an unbelievable understanding and knowledge of sports injuries. i envy you. :unsure:
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
:fishing:
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
My statement would imply that I disagree with RB1 claims but could see him pulling off RB2 #'s, would it not?
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I want to temper the enthusiasm just a bit. As an Ingram owner I've watched all three of the NO games and Ingram is on the field for only about 1/3 of the offensive snaps. The good news is he has been getting the goal line duty and had a TD last week.

The one thing we haven't seen is the Saints with a significant lead, but something tells me that the Saints will keep an even ratio between Pierre and Ingram even then, just with more of them and less Sproles. So even best case, I think you're only looking at about 40% of the offensive snaps (they split 80%, Sproles with 20%).

33-40% of the snaps is not conducive to big production. TDs are his only saving grace until either one of the other two gets hurt or Ingram outperforms Thomas between the 20s and earns a bigger share.

This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
Last time I checked they dont play GB or HOU again this yr, and the next 6 weeks are: JAX, CAR, TB, IND, STL, TB. The Saints might not be playing from behind, at any point, in any of those games.
Last time I checked, you didn't get my point at all.
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He will probably in my starting lineup this week, just check the ESPN scroll :excited: I expect them to feed him the ball when they are ahead...and I think that starts this week.

What does it say?I'm on my phone and couldn't find anything
Agreed. What did ESPN say?
Ah, I was joking and meant that no one cares about my team and made an ESPN scroll joke, my bad :ph34r:
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
That's anecdotal. Have you watched him run?
I have not only watched him run I have seen almost every carry he's had going back to his freshmen year at college. Also I was privy to some scouting film unavailable to the general public. I studied this guy in depth as I had the #1 pick in my rookie draft and after review saw many many weaknesses and issues with his skillet and how it would translate to the NFL.I might share my report on him but to be honest don't like to share detailed info on dynasty prospects as my league mates will use that info against me.
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The greatest trick Ingram ever pulled was convincing the world he had talent. And like that... Poof we realize he never had it to begin with.

I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
That's anecdotal. Have you watched him run?
I have not only watched him run I have seen almost every carry he's had going back to his freshmen year at college. Also I was privy to some scouting film unavailable to the general public. I studied this guy in depth as I had the #1 pick in my rookie draft and after review saw many many weaknesses and issues with his skillet and how it would translate to the NFL.I might share my report on him but to be honest don't like to share detailed info on dynasty prospects as my league mates will use that info against me.
you're a sad, sad little man.
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