Here's hoping. Obviously there's potential with his pedigree, ability and situation. At this point I'd love to see him hit BJGE's production on a weekly basis. Speaking of which, I'll probably be benching him for....gasp...Ridley or McGahee next week. Ridley has managed to look like the better fantasy play the past 2 weeks...
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Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)
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twistd
Footballguy
I have Ingram. I will not be dumping him, but I won't be playing him either. I think that Mark Ingram is the biggest swing and miss that I have seen on Football Guys in a long time. It seems that everyone has been pimping this guy like crazy since the beginning of training camp. He is a huge disappointment. I think there is almost no chance he represents value for his ADP at any time this year.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I just traded him away in dynasty as part of a deal to acquire Lesean McCoy. There is just too much uncertainty around him. Until runners start dropping with injuries, he's going to be tough to start. Sproles isn't going anywhere for a while
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
It would appear that the back to own in the Saints backfield is Daren Sproles. Ingram just isnt getting enough touches and a between the tackles guy like that needs touches to establish a rhythm. Too many weapons on the Saints and this is still the Drew Brees show.
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shnikies
Footballguy
Oh Kenny, when will you learn? Ingram will be very useful during the bye weeks but an every week RB2 he is not. He's a top 30 back that will finish with 900-1000 total yards and 5-7 tds. It sucks and this kid will be a stud, just not in his current situation.Yep. Payton is setting this up so Ingy gets 3 TDs next week
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Three yards and a cloud of bust.Oh Kenny, when will you learn? Ingram will be very useful during the bye weeks but an every week RB2 he is not. He's a top 30 back that will finish with 900-1000 total yards and 5-7 tds. It sucks and this kid will be a stud, just not in his current situation.Yep. Payton is setting this up so Ingy gets 3 TDs next week
He is killing fantasy teams everywhere. If you are forced to start him, his 5 ppg is not helping you at all...
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Kinda disappointed with the hype from FBG on this one. I put my neck out there to get him in a redraft and I look really foolish at this point for doing it. I took him as the 13th RB off the board............
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Who was getting drafted around Ingram? D-Will, Jahvid, Greene, Moreno all seem like guys that were going 4th-5th round like Ingram, and have been about as productive as Ingram, except with less potential as the year goes on. Yes, guys in this range like Beanie and Mathews have been great picks, but Ingram is more par for the course with similar ADP RBs than underachieving.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I think he still is more likely to finish the year as a RB2 (meaning top 24 RB) than not.BTW, 1000/7 (142pts) wouldve made him RB22 in my league last year.Oh Kenny, when will you learn? Ingram will be very useful during the bye weeks but an every week RB2 he is not. He's a top 30 back that will finish with 900-1000 total yards and 5-7 tds. It sucks and this kid will be a stud, just not in his current situation.Yep. Payton is setting this up so Ingy gets 3 TDs next week
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Look foolish posting junk like this. What did FBG put him at like #15 RB. Hype was warranted and #15 aint top 10. So a 3rd or 4th round pick flamed out? Welcome to fantasy football.
shnikies
Footballguy
And 900 yards and 5 tds would be RB33 last year so what does taking the top of both ranges prove?I think he still is more likely to finish the year as a RB2 (meaning top 24 RB) than not.BTW, 1000/7 (142pts) wouldve made him RB22 in my league last year.Oh Kenny, when will you learn? Ingram will be very useful during the bye weeks but an every week RB2 he is not. He's a top 30 back that will finish with 900-1000 total yards and 5-7 tds. It sucks and this kid will be a stud, just not in his current situation.Yep. Payton is setting this up so Ingy gets 3 TDs next week
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
That I expect his numbers to improveAnd 900 yards and 5 tds would be RB33 last year so what does taking the top of both ranges prove?I think he still is more likely to finish the year as a RB2 (meaning top 24 RB) than not.BTW, 1000/7 (142pts) wouldve made him RB22 in my league last year.Oh Kenny, when will you learn? Ingram will be very useful during the bye weeks but an every week RB2 he is not. He's a top 30 back that will finish with 900-1000 total yards and 5-7 tds. It sucks and this kid will be a stud, just not in his current situation.Yep. Payton is setting this up so Ingy gets 3 TDs next week
He's on pace for 750/4 right now. I think he'll be closer to 1000/7 (if not more) than 900/5 when its all said and done.
griff321
Footballguy
That's kind of a terrible argument because you're not forced to take a RB. Footballguys was mocking him as a guy to take in the early third and a lot of people were pushing him as a late second right before the season started. In my leagues he went from the end of the second to late fourth. The hype just kept gaining steam as the season got closer. There were a ton of other options there that have produced monster numbers if you focused on other areas and waited another 3-6 rounds to get a RB like Sproles, Stewart, or Tolbert that are giving better production.Sure early picks bust all the time, but who the heck wants to deal with it!? Just be a bit more hesitant when drafting a rookie that high next year and move on.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I wasnt really following where his ADP was according to FBGs, but I certainly didnt consider him a 3rd rounder and would make fun of someone if they took him in the 2nd. Took him last pick of the 4th and 1st pick of the 5th in my 2 leagues. Im still not convinced his end of the year numbers dont warrant that.I see what youre saying as far as other positions argument, I just think if you needed a RB and took Ingram 4th-5th he really isnt a bust compared to most other RBs in that ballpark. Now if you went upside-down strategy, I probably wouldnt have taken him either that early because you want a more proven RB even if their upside isnt that of Ingram.
Sure early picks bust all the time, but who the heck wants to deal with it!? Just be a bit more hesitant when drafting a rookie that high next year and move on.
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griff321
Footballguy
Truth.To be fair as well this could very well be the low water mark for the season. I certainly don't expect Pierre Thomas to be outscoring him the entire season.I wasnt really following where his ADP was according to FBGs, but I certainly didnt consider him a 3rd rounder and would make fun of someone if they took him in the 2nd. Took him last pick of the 4th and 1st pick of the 5th in my 2 leagues. Im still not convinced his end of the year numbers dont warrant that.I see what youre saying as far as other positions argument, I just think if you needed a RB and took Ingram 4th-5th he really isnt a bust compared to most other RBs in that ballpark.
Sure early picks bust all the time, but who the heck wants to deal with it!? Just be a bit more hesitant when drafting a rookie that high next year and move on.
Agreed. Ingram averaging 14.25 touches per gameSproles averaging 10.25 (not including returns)Thomas averaging 9.5 So while Ingram is getting the most touches, he's doing far less with them and he seems like the type that needs more to be productive vs a guy like Sproles who can break off a huge play anytime. The FB 1 yard TD today was just icing on the cake. Ingram is a semi-bust so far. But certainly not droppable like some people are saying.
pittstownkiller
Footballguy
What do you feel about P. Thomas here; his season stats dwarf Ingram's and play closer to Sproles'. How much longer will NOR give Ingram to establish himself, while Thomas is putting up more with less touches. Is Thomas still recovering from last year's knee injury; is he out of Payton's doghouse?
griff321
Footballguy
You would be insane to drop him at this point. This is typically the rub with a lot of rookie RBs, they start slow and come on strong to end the season. I just didn't expect to see fellow rookie RBs like Thomas and even Ridley break out before Ingram.
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Short Corner
Footballguy
I don't think the term 'vultured' applies here.Already had a GL TD vultured from the Saints FB. Where the heck is Ingram?
shadyridr
Footballguy
its ok to admit you were wrong
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Ugh.....back to my bench until he does something substantial. I'd rather roll with Tolbert as my #2.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
I dont think any back is in Paytons dog house. PT is very solid and has ran hard when he has had the chance. Payton likes all his backs and that appears to be the problem as far as anyone emerging fantasy wise. It will be worse when Ivory comes back.'pittstownkiller said:
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griff321
Footballguy
OOF! I almost forgot about Ivory. It's like piss in my cheerios.
shnikies
Footballguy
Ivory will almost certainly be a healthy scratch on gamedays.
Well, I'm eating it hard on this one. I feel like the opportunities have been (and continue to be) there, but they're just not turning into production. Sorry if I convinced anybody in a redraft that trading Ingram early would be a mistake. :(
My strategy of loading up on WR talent early this year is keeping me afloat, but the particular RB's I stocked up on in the middle are becoming a real albatross. Thank god I managed to avoid guys like Beanie and Fred, while nabbing Hightower and Ingram. Oof.
My strategy of loading up on WR talent early this year is keeping me afloat, but the particular RB's I stocked up on in the middle are becoming a real albatross. Thank god I managed to avoid guys like Beanie and Fred, while nabbing Hightower and Ingram. Oof.
griff321
Footballguy
They were super high on Matthews last year too. I learned my lesson the hard way.
nysportsfan
Footballguy
This is basically my situation, as well.Rather than taking Fred, Beanie or Mathews, I took Felix, Ingram, and DeAngelo. Ruh roh.Ingram has to be a stash and wait (redraft) at this point. I won't drop him because I do think there is a good chance he turns it on and there is no one worth grabbing on the wire in my league. YMMV.
True but they were high on Nicks last year and he was a hit. Gotta give them some slack.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I won my league a while back going edge in the 2nd and ricky williams in the third (when they were rookies).But those were both very different situations.
In fact I would say FBG's were more than clear about their disdain for the notion that Ingram was not going to have an ADP like rookie year.
exhibit A: Kffl Blog: Temper enthusiasm on Mark Ingram Payton's history suggest no more than a rb3 in 2011 (note this was not a dynasty indict: the author of the piece even said so)
I'm in the camp that believes Ingram will not have a season that makes him any better than a No. 3 back in fantasy football circles.
Don't get me wrong. I love (almost) everything about Ingram. I even took him with the No. 1 pick in my dynasty league's rookie draft the other day.
He has the potential to be an elite NFL back. However, I don't think he is capable of doing it in New Orleans this season.
where many of them step in and say that the notion that Ingram was going to be a RB3, that maybe had RB2 upside was scoffed and and specifically debunked by many, many staffers.
'Sigmund Bloom said:
Now it is unfair to call out the FBGers on every single call they made, but they pretty clearly thought that this was going to be MUCH different than the apologists in this thread are trying to spin it. Time to bump this thread I guess.'Jason Wood said:'mjm3773 said:
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Yep. Mendenhall-Felix-DeAngelo-Ingram-Hightower. No wonder Im 0-4 :X
shader
Footballguy
I said it in another thread and I'll say it in this one. In re-draft, I'd be scared. Sell if you can, but make sure you get good value and someone with a higher upside. Ingram is a Sproles or Thomas injury away from getting 22 touches a game, and you will be sorry you sold.
In dynasty, hold and deal with it.
From a talent perspective, Ingram hasn't disappointed me. He is strong and powerful. I haven't watched the last two weeks, so I'll have to look at the FBG game recaps and possibly go watch some film to see what happened, but I know in the first two weeks, it seems like when he is on the field it's telegraphed that they are going to run.
That sometimes happens with young rb's. If Thomas is the better blocker, perhaps defenses know (as one of the Packers defenders said) that when Ingram enters the game, he is probably going to get the ball. Don't think that doesn't affect things.
Trust me, this guy will be a stud.
For 3 years I've compared him to Emmitt Smith, and I still love the comparison. Smith's first four games:
2 rushes 2 yards
6 rushes 11 yards
17 rushes 63 yards
12 rushes 28 yards
Smith finished the year with 937 yards and 11 td's.
I still think 1,000 yards and 10td's is my expectation for Ingram, and I still think he'll get there.
Just give the guy some time. The Saints are winning and they will continue to work him into the offense and the touchdowns will come.
In dynasty, hold and deal with it.
From a talent perspective, Ingram hasn't disappointed me. He is strong and powerful. I haven't watched the last two weeks, so I'll have to look at the FBG game recaps and possibly go watch some film to see what happened, but I know in the first two weeks, it seems like when he is on the field it's telegraphed that they are going to run.
That sometimes happens with young rb's. If Thomas is the better blocker, perhaps defenses know (as one of the Packers defenders said) that when Ingram enters the game, he is probably going to get the ball. Don't think that doesn't affect things.
Trust me, this guy will be a stud.
For 3 years I've compared him to Emmitt Smith, and I still love the comparison. Smith's first four games:
2 rushes 2 yards
6 rushes 11 yards
17 rushes 63 yards
12 rushes 28 yards
Smith finished the year with 937 yards and 11 td's.
I still think 1,000 yards and 10td's is my expectation for Ingram, and I still think he'll get there.
Just give the guy some time. The Saints are winning and they will continue to work him into the offense and the touchdowns will come.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
hurt me yesterday
benched beanie for him..
ouch
benched beanie for him..
ouch
T with T
Footballguy
Ingram is really starting to scare me and has been super unproductive. I guess the only good thing about Ingram is his 17carries and 2 catches... Maybe the more times he gets 15-20 carries, the better chance he has to break out. I know he will break out here soon I would think, he is a good talent, Don't understand why it isn't converting so far on the field. Frustrating. I need him to be a strong 3 possibly 2 behind Best, Mcgahee in a ppr league.
shader
Footballguy
I need to find out the truth of my theory that Ingram gets the ball when he is on the field. Does anyone know where you can find the number of snaps in which a player is on the field?I'd love to get that info for this past weeks' games.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Certainly? No I think the Saints would not have cut Joique Bell if they didnt anticipate Ivory returning and helping this rushing game. Bell was running very hard and deserved a roster spot otherwise. I have no idea if Ivory is the same guy now than he was before the injury, if he is the same guy that ran last year he will command some carries.[
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That's on you. Footballguys had Wells at 16 and Ingram at 27 for Week 4.
shnikies
Footballguy
I'm sure they did keep him to help the running game if one of the three active backs were to get injured. Unless he's playing special teams also, there would be zero reason for a pass-first team to have four active running backs on gameday.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Weekly range for Ingram: 5ish pts, plus the prayer for a TD or two.
This is as it stands today, but clearly the coaches are making a concerted effort to keep him involved. He is a quantity rather than quality touch RB, so as long as it's a 1/3 share, it's not going to be enough to please the masses. Especially when he's getting vultured, instead of vulturing. Not getting Saints goal line duty would make him completely unstartable, so we'll have to see if that trend continues.
This is as it stands today, but clearly the coaches are making a concerted effort to keep him involved. He is a quantity rather than quality touch RB, so as long as it's a 1/3 share, it's not going to be enough to please the masses. Especially when he's getting vultured, instead of vulturing. Not getting Saints goal line duty would make him completely unstartable, so we'll have to see if that trend continues.
They? They who?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
LinkThat's Dodds. Maurile had him 9th. The other guys had him in the early to mid teens.
ESPN had him 24th.
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Scooby1974
Footballguy
Ingram smells of LaGarret Blount circa 2010. No mini-camp. Struggled to pick things up. Passing game came on and opened things up for some rushing. Blount flourished in the 2nd half of the season after realizing his potential. Caddy took a back seat and Blount started hurdling DB's like he was in the Olympics. NO has been meddling offensively instead of getting up comfortably due to some tough/tight matchups with some high powered O's and stingy D's against the run. Ingram needs a few games with some consistent drives to get into a groove so we can see what he's capable of. I do think he'll find his confidence in this run of 5 games ahead. He may not be the ROY, but if you notice, no other rookie RB is exactly taking off after the prize either.
Rick James
Footballguy
I've still got a spot for him on my roster, but he's seeing the bench now.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Definitely appears that he may be on the way to disappointing those who were bullish about him (myself included). I would actually feel better about him if he were doing more with each touch. To me the 19 touches is NOT encouraging because he didn't do enough with them. He's not showing the talent we all expected, which would force Sean Payton to play him. The argument we supporters put forth was that even if it started as a committee, Ingram's abilities would be so readily apparent that he would force the coaches' hand and earn significantly more reps within a few weeks. That hasn't happened, yet, and certainly anyone that took him in the 3rd/4th/5th rounds is feeling the pain right now (I'm one of you).
He's too enticing to drop, but if you have to have him in your lineup right now, you've likely gotten off to a rocky start.
He's too enticing to drop, but if you have to have him in your lineup right now, you've likely gotten off to a rocky start.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I like the Blount parallel. Blount's fourth game (I think it was around Week 7) where he went for 120 and two TDs against the terrible Arizona rush defense earned him more attention and carries and he never looked back. Ingram needs a game like that. And right on cue, the Saints head to Charlotte this week to face the Panthers and their 31st ranked rush defense. If Ingram is going to be useful from a fantasy perspective in 2011 I think this is the week he has to show it.
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packersfan
Footballguy
I have him in two leagues. I've started him every week as my RB3 in one league and I've only started him once in the other league. I'm doing much better in the league where I've started him each week. I wouldn't say there's a significant difference in the talent on the two rosters. It's just a crazy game sometimes and impossible to predict.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Ingram is a bust? OK I guess in 4-game FF seasons, sorry to those over-enthusiastic owners that missed the play-offs.
And if he's a bust, so is Mendenhall, Arian Foster (well, he had 1 good game), Chris Johnson, Shonn Greene, Michael Turner, Hillis, SJax, Jahvid Best, and Gore?
Bottom line, if you thought Ingram was going to anchor your RB's out of the gate... you're not a gambler, you are a contributor.
And if he's a bust, so is Mendenhall, Arian Foster (well, he had 1 good game), Chris Johnson, Shonn Greene, Michael Turner, Hillis, SJax, Jahvid Best, and Gore?
Bottom line, if you thought Ingram was going to anchor your RB's out of the gate... you're not a gambler, you are a contributor.
