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Mark Ingram


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Redraft dissapointment, but I'm buying in dynasty.

Something tell me you'll be dissapointed too.
So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season. Regardless, he's going to continue to gain trust from Payton. The guy gets tough yards, the guy converts, he's going to be very good in dynasty formats.
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Guest Luke Skywalker

Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
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Over 1000 posts on this guy! That's impressive. But it is surprising to me.

Maybe I'm just too quick to give up on a player??? But I would have dropped the guy by now had he been on my team because it doesn't seem like it's in the Saints plans to have 1 back get 20 plus carries a game this season. And the screen pass role has been taken by Sproles.

I can't imagine starting this guy except out of bye week desperation.

Edited by phillybirds
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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
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Guest Luke Skywalker

Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.I mean the universal "you" not you personally.
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I feel like Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd in trading places. Standing around as the panic ensues and the stock keeps dipping lower and lower just waiting for the appropriate moment to scream, "BUY!"

Are we there yet?

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I think people are over reacting (shocking hey?) both ways with him. I drafted him in redraft in two leagues in the 5th round, where I think he went give or take a round in most drafts. Those who did, we need to admit we drafted him too early. He is probably more like a 7-8th round value, weekly flex player. But to drop him or say he's THAT big of a bust is a bit of a stretch.

He'll be involved more and more.... saints will run the ball more especially with the next 7 weeks playing vs teams not in the top 10 run defenses. Throw a few cold weather games and potential sproles/pierre injury and he still has RB2 upside this year, with his floor seemingly being what he's doing right now.

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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
Try third, possibly a late second round reach.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
:yes: The party is going down in year two.I can't blame Peyton. He doesn't seem the type to trust a season in the hands of a rookie. Ingram will get there.
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I'm consistently impressed with Ingram when he does get his opportunities, though that isn't happening often. I happened to catch the one series yesterday where he got two straight runs and busted for about 8 yards on both runs. He runs with such power and strength, and is a real force to bring down.

I think where I was wrong in my excitement for Ingram was in thinking that the Saints were a perfect fit. I THOUGHT they were a perfect fit, but apparently not. At this point, Payton has fallen in love with the passing game, and with good reason. Drew Brees is a stud and they are getting it done.

But it's clear that there just are too many mouths to feed in the backfield for Ingram to have major success in 2011. Only an injury will cause that to happen.

Before Ingram's touchdown, there were about four or five goalline possessions in a row in which he was on the field and Brees went elsewhere (spanning two games).

Twice Brees went to the fullback with runs, once he passed it to the fullback, and he threw another pass I believe. Then finally Ingram got the ball and scored pretty easily.

Looks like Payton recognized the fact that defenses EXPECT to see Ingram getting the ball on the goalline and he is throwing them all sorts of other looks and possibilities. Another reason why he is a great playcaller and coach.

I think in the long run, Ingram gets the ball the majority of the time, and I'm still on board with the 10-12 TD's this year. Getting to 1,000 yards is going to be tricky at his current pace though.

One thing I did notice yesterday, is that I thought that Sproles looked a "hair" slower than he had in the first four weeks. Sproles isn't built to take a ton of punishment. I think that Payton at some point will recognize this and scale back Sproles touches. It only makes sense, as the Saints really need a healthy Darren Sproles during the playoffs. That obviously would be huge for Ingram.

This remains a case of great talent and subpar situation. Which means he's great for dynasty and not so great for re-draft, except in TD only leagues.

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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
Try third, possibly a late second round reach.
This is my problem - It was basically drilled into our brains that Ingram's floor was very low. I'm a paid subscriber and not a happy customer right now. I pay for the thoughts and insights of the staff - I don't really care about data dominator or any of the tools.

For me this is a huge let down. There is still time but right now big sad face.............

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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
Try third, possibly a late second round reach.
This is my problem - It was basically drilled into our brains that Ingram's floor was very low. I'm a paid subscriber and not a happy customer right now. I pay for the thoughts and insights of the staff - I don't really care about data dominator or any of the tools.

For me this is a huge let down. There is still time but right now big sad face.............

Your first mistake is paying money for fantasy advice of any kind. The best thing about this site is the message board. You have to sort through the knucklehead commentary, but the best info is on the forum. The projections from Footballguys arent better than any free sites out there. Dodds put up a post about this in the Summer. Footballguys weekly ranking last year were good: they ranked #2 last year for all fantasy sites. But the #1 rankings were by a free site.

For Ingram, he's doing almost exactly what I expected him to do. I read a lot of posts on him this summer, and everyone reasonable felt that he was going to be around a 800-1200 yards and around 10 TDs. His stats are right around that pace after 5 games. If Thomas or Sproles get injured he's instantly a starting fantasy player. Likewise, if he goes down Thomas is instantly a starter. Looks just about right to me.

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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
Try third, possibly a late second round reach.
This is my problem - It was basically drilled into our brains that Ingram's floor was very low. I'm a paid subscriber and not a happy customer right now. I pay for the thoughts and insights of the staff - I don't really care about data dominator or any of the tools.

For me this is a huge let down. There is still time but right now big sad face.............

Your first mistake is paying money for fantasy advice of any kind. The best thing about this site is the message board. You have to sort through the knucklehead commentary, but the best info is on the forum. The projections from Footballguys arent better than any free sites out there. Dodds put up a post about this in the Summer. Footballguys weekly ranking last year were good: they ranked #2 last year for all fantasy sites. But the #1 rankings were by a free site.

For Ingram, he's doing almost exactly what I expected him to do. I read a lot of posts on him this summer, and everyone reasonable felt that he was going to be around a 800-1200 yards and around 10 TDs. His stats are right around that pace after 5 games. If Thomas or Sproles get injured he's instantly a starting fantasy player. Likewise, if he goes down Thomas is instantly a starter. Looks just about right to me.

:no: Not everyone.

From the player spotlight thread. Some other posters made excellent points about the mess of a situation and Sproles:

I don't think he's AD like.

Remember how Matthews was pimped on these boards! Do not trust a rookie RB!

14 games, 150 carries, 660 yards, 5tds- 22 rec. 178 yards 3tds.

I think he'll put up stats as well, but when is my concern. I just don't feel confident that Payton will give him much opportunity in year one. It seems that when rookies do get opportunity from Payton it's as a result of injury. With Ingram's skyrocketing value it's hard for me to rely on injury. Ingram just seems to hold too much risk and not enough reward for what he's being valued at right now.

A lot of rookie threads get biased feelings based on dynasty owners and while it's right for them to covet someone like Ingram, it isn't right for a redrafter to take him at the inflated cost because dynasty leagues drove up ADPs.

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Bust of the century, or bust of the millennium?

You're talking about a guy on pace for about 800 yards in his rookie season in a 3-way time share. But yeah, bust of the century about sums it up. :lmao:
He is average 43 rushing yards/game by my count (46 yards/game if you count receiving yards), which is closer to 700 yards, and still pretty much fantasy irrelevant. Absolute bust for most who drafted him.
If you took him in redraft and expected him to be a stud immediately in a 3 or 4-way timeshare, you weren't paying attention. If you took him in dynasty and you're already dumping him, you're an idiot.

I mean the universal "you" not you personally.

Paying attention to what? The experts on this site had him as a 4th, possible 3rd round reach with a projected floor of 250 carries.
Try third, possibly a late second round reach.
This is my problem - It was basically drilled into our brains that Ingram's floor was very low. I'm a paid subscriber and not a happy customer right now. I pay for the thoughts and insights of the staff - I don't really care about data dominator or any of the tools.

For me this is a huge let down. There is still time but right now big sad face.............

The average of the FBG expert ranking for Ingram was pick 32, the median was 34. Thats end of the 3rd round.Dodds ranked him at 38, 4th round.

Ingram's ADP was 52, so in most redraft leagues you could have got him in the 4th no problem. Dodds had him as RB19, to week 3 he performed as RB40, he'll be a little better after this week. Thats hardly epic failure, and the season is far from over.

If you took Ingram as your RB3, well he got you 50 all purpose yards and a touchdown if you had a bye this week, you really gonna complain about that too much?

I think the point is, if you drafted Ingram as your RB3 you shouldnt be too bent out of shape and have time to be patient (particularly if you covered your ### with some high upside RB 4/5). If you drafted upside down and relied on Ingram to start, well thats pretty reckless and FBGs didnt recommend it if you look at their numbers. Certainly you should have used the shotgun approach and had other possibilities if Ingram didnt light the world on fire. If Ingram was getting you nothing and you couldn't even start him as bye week filler, you could make a case for a total bust. Thats not really whats going on though. Its risk vs reward, Ingram had (and has to some extent) the potential to be the league winner for a lot of teams given where you could draft him- and on the other hand he shouldnt be a season killer if he doesnt perform like a 1st or even 2nd round miss could be (Mendenhall owners care to chime in on who the bigger bust is?). That bet may not come off with Ingram this season, but that doesn't make it a bad bet.

Edited by mbuehner
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this was the first time i started ingram due to bye, got him as rb4 relatively cheap in auction. it was frustrating to see them fake it to him twice in a row on the goalline early in the game. he should have had 2 td's. i understand wanting to mix it up, but this was carolina's run d, just get it in, no need to fool around.

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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.
Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one. Edited by ChromeWeasel
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.
Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.
Precisely why I don't get why the "experts" on this site have stubbornly pounded the pavement on Ingram since July. I foolishly listened but figured that they gave me some good ones last year like Nicks and Blount, who helped me win my league. The 3rd RB in a 3 ring Circus was not the RB to hang their hats on this season.
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Redraft dissapointment, but I'm buying in dynasty.

Something tell me you'll be dissapointed too.
So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season. Regardless, he's going to continue to gain trust from Payton. The guy gets tough yards, the guy converts, he's going to be very good in dynasty formats.
He wasn't supposed to need an injury to be relevant. Now he does. He was supposed to carry the load. Now he is part of a rbbc each week. He was supposed to get the goal line touch. He doesn't get most of them.
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I feel like Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd in trading places. Standing around as the panic ensues and the stock keeps dipping lower and lower just waiting for the appropriate moment to scream, "BUY!"Are we there yet?

Buy after Beeks gets raped by the gorilla.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
Ingram isn't unique. He could have gotten another guy just like him next year, and without overpaying.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
Ingram isn't unique. He could have gotten another guy just like him next year, and without overpaying.
I won't disagree with you, but obviously Payton felt differently.
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Guest Luke Skywalker

He wasn't supposed to need an injury to be relevant. Now he does. He was supposed to carry the load. Now he is part of a rbbc each week. He was supposed to get the goal line touch. He doesn't get most of them.

No offense, but what the hell made you think Ingram was going to be anything more than part of a 3-way rotation? You have to know the situation he's in.
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He wasn't supposed to need an injury to be relevant. Now he does. He was supposed to carry the load. Now he is part of a rbbc each week. He was supposed to get the goal line touch. He doesn't get most of them.

No offense, but what the hell made you think Ingram was going to be anything more than part of a 3-way rotation? You have to know the situation he's in.
He's actually doing pretty well considering the 3-way split in New Orleans. I figured he'd have this kind of production until someone gets injured, and that was without Sproles going lights-out. Considering how great Sproles has been playing I'm actually a bit impressed with Ingram's production. The Saints running game looks great this year compared to the Saints rushing stats the last few years.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
Ingram isn't unique. He could have gotten another guy just like him next year, and without overpaying.
I won't disagree with you, but obviously Payton felt differently.
Yeah, I just had no idea I was this much smarter than Payton at football. Pretty proud of myself right now.
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Your first mistake is paying money for fantasy advice of any kind. The best thing about this site is the message board. You have to sort through the knucklehead commentary, but the best info is on the forum. The projections from Footballguys arent better than any free sites out there. Dodds put up a post about this in the Summer. Footballguys weekly ranking last year were good: they ranked #2 last year for all fantasy sites. But the #1 rankings were by a free site.

Dude, can I get a link to that message board you're referring to?
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The instant reaction and complete lack of patience by a whole mess of people in this thread is frustrating to read through.

It started by people overreacting far too much to the Saints trading up to draft Ingram and instantly anointing him a superstar and fantasy stud. The overreaction then moved to people calling him the bust of the century and proclaiming him a bum after starting slowly in the first 5 games of his NFL career.

Isn't it entirely possible that Ingram is a very good player, yet not a hall of famer, who is still learning the game and will play much better as he figures things out? Does it have to be all one way or all the other?

Do you know the player that Mark Ingram has most reminded me of all along to this point (including college team, college production, and unwarranted rookie hype due to a team trading up in the draft to acquire him)? Shaun Alexander. MANY people were instantly anointing Alexander a fantasy star once the Seahawks traded Galloway to move up in the draft and take him. Do you know what Alexander finished his rookie season with? 313 yards and 2 touchdowns. Granted Ricky Watters was a slightly improved version of Pierre Thomas at that point in his career which kept Alexander's numbers low, but Ingram is also on pace to be slightly usable in his rookie season unlike Alexander.

While everyone in the instant reaction crow was busy proclaiming Alexander a bum, saying he was overrated, that he was merely good at everything and didn't have 1 elite talent that would allow him to find NFL success, etc..., the patient (smart?) people were buying at insanely discounted prices and wound up paying substantially below market price for one of the best players in fantasy football over the next 5+ years.

Sure, you can find plenty of examples in which the instant reaction crowd was right after they proclaimed a player a bust after 1 game. My point is that nobody has a damn clue either way- Ingram has pedigree, he has talent, he has college production, and he has at times this season passed the eye test (and at the same time, he has not passed the eye test at times this season as well). Can we give it some time to play out and not come and whine every time a fullback gets a 1 yard touchdown instead of Ingram? It's entirely possible that Ingram will never pan out and become the star many think he will. However, we have NO idea if that is the case yet- he's playing on a superbowl contender that can't afford to lean too heavily on rookies, he has 2 very good running backs on the team with him that he needs to share touches with, and he plays with one of the best QB's and passing coaches in the league that limit his opportunity for production. If you drafted Ingram as a starter on your fantasy team, it was a mistake and not something you should have ever done (regardless of what any fantasy "experts" told you to do, the writing was on the wall from the very beginning that his rookie production would be muted and thinking anything else was taking a giant risk. How can you be upset when you decided to take a risk?). Aside from that, let's give him some time to figure out how to play in the NFL without the every play overreaction that makes me want to punch a hole in my computer screen, eh?

Edited by Herm23
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Your first mistake is paying money for fantasy advice of any kind. The best thing about this site is the message board. You have to sort through the knucklehead commentary, but the best info is on the forum. The projections from Footballguys arent better than any free sites out there. Dodds put up a post about this in the Summer. Footballguys weekly ranking last year were good: they ranked #2 last year for all fantasy sites. But the #1 rankings were by a free site.

Dude, can I get a link to that message board you're referring to?
The good part of the message board is for paying customers only
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Your first mistake is paying money for fantasy advice of any kind. The best thing about this site is the message board. You have to sort through the knucklehead commentary, but the best info is on the forum. The projections from Footballguys arent better than any free sites out there. Dodds put up a post about this in the Summer. Footballguys weekly ranking last year were good: they ranked #2 last year for all fantasy sites. But the #1 rankings were by a free site.

For Ingram, he's doing almost exactly what I expected him to do. I read a lot of posts on him this summer, and everyone reasonable felt that he was going to be around a 800-1200 yards and around 10 TDs. His stats are right around that pace after 5 games. If Thomas or Sproles get injured he's instantly a starting fantasy player. Likewise, if he goes down Thomas is instantly a starter. Looks just about right to me.

When Dodds posted about how reliable FBGs rankings are in comparison to his competitors, he's letting you know you're getting you're money's worth in that area in addition to everything else that FBG's offers. He's also letting you know that FBGs rankings are, in fact, better than just "any" old free site out there. However, I don't personally subscribe for the weekly rankings.

Draft dominator, the preseason and in-season articles/subscriber materials, and the subscriber contest (finished 3rd last year took home $2,000 in cash + a 3pack of FPC teams worth $1,000 which gives me three chances this year at over $200,000) are all well worth the price of admission. And honestly if FBGs didn't have enough subscribers they couldn't afford to keep this going. So if you enjoy Lammey/Bloom/Waldman "audible" podcasts, and daily email updates, and even the message boards in their current format (just the free offerings)... Then why wouldn't you want to support FBGs and become a subscriber to keep it going and also take advantage of all the subscriber offerings as well?

IMO FBGs is a great value, and I will continue subscribing for as long as they continue to offer the same level of service.

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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

I haven't seen this, though I see many claim it.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
Ingram isn't unique. He could have gotten another guy just like him next year, and without overpaying.
I won't disagree with you, but obviously Payton felt differently.
Yeah, I just had no idea I was this much smarter than Payton at football. Pretty proud of myself right now.
Well, I guess you should be getting that resume ready for NFL teams then.........since you're smarter than Payton, who does have a Superbowl ring.
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Why did Payton draft him? It seems so odd that he'd give up so much to draft a guy that is so replaceable in that offense. There is nothing that Ingram has done in 5 weeks that PT/Sproles (Payton thinks) couldn't do.

Maybe he plays in a dynasty league.
Ingram isn't unique. He could have gotten another guy just like him next year, and without overpaying.
I won't disagree with you, but obviously Payton felt differently.
Yeah, I just had no idea I was this much smarter than Payton at football. Pretty proud of myself right now.
Well, I guess you should be getting that resume ready for NFL teams then.........since you're smarter than Payton, who does have a Superbowl ring.
I know!
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

Precisely why I don't get why the "experts" on this site have stubbornly pounded the pavement on Ingram since July. I foolishly listened but figured that they gave me some good ones last year like Nicks and Blount, who helped me win my league. The 3rd RB in a 3 ring Circus was not the RB to hang their hats on this season.
Nobody drafted Blount.
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Guest Luke Skywalker

Sounds to me like most of the crying and gnashing of teeth here is being done by people who blindly followed FBG's instead of doing their own research.....

any Saints homer could've told you there was going to be a 3-way split and how Payton handles his backs (granted, at the time the 3rd back was Ivory instead of Sproles, but still....) Matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken there were several posts on this very board to that point.

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Sounds to me like most of the crying and gnashing of teeth here is being done by people who blindly followed FBG's instead of doing their own research.....any Saints homer could've told you there was going to be a 3-way split and how Payton handles his backs (granted, at the time the 3rd back was Ivory instead of Sproles, but still....) Matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken there were several posts on this very board to that point.

You do realize the reason FBG exists (and a large portion of their target audience who subscribe to them) is so people can blindly follow them, right? Edited by GreenNGold
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Sounds to me like most of the crying and gnashing of teeth here is being done by people who blindly followed FBG's instead of doing their own research.....any Saints homer could've told you there was going to be a 3-way split and how Payton handles his backs (granted, at the time the 3rd back was Ivory instead of Sproles, but still....) Matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken there were several posts on this very board to that point.

You do realize the reason FBG exists (and a large portion of their target audience who subscribe to them) is so people can blindly follow them, right?
That's me. I love their insight and most of the material I use from them is free but to show my support I purchased a subscription.Every FBG staffer was pimping Ingram hard - they were all in agreement. Lots of counter points from them as to why Ingram would be a top15 RB anytime the situations was questioned.
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

I haven't seen this, though I see many claim it.
If you havent seen it then you havent been watching the games or even reading the basic stats. Thomas is outplaying Ingram per touch, by a large margin.

Rushing Statistics

Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD

Mark Ingram 62 216 3.5 17 2

Pierre Thomas 34 154 4.5 21 0

Receiving Statistics

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Pierre Thomas 14 133 9.5 19 1

Mark Ingram 6 17 2.8 9 0

If either player goes down, the other one becomes much more valuable. Thomas has looked much better this year, although Ingram is getting more carries. If you don't see that then you aren't watching the games.

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Guest Luke Skywalker

You do realize the reason FBG exists (and a large portion of their target audience who subscribe to them) is so people can blindly follow them, right?

I get that, but if you're so disinterested in playing FF that you can't be bothered to do your own research, why bother? You might as well just take all your FF money and go buy a bunch of scratch-off lotto tickets if that's the case.I like FBG and I think it's a great tool, but at the end of the day I'm going to trust my own observations if they are different.
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Sounds to me like most of the crying and gnashing of teeth here is being done by people who blindly followed FBG's instead of doing their own research.....any Saints homer could've told you there was going to be a 3-way split and how Payton handles his backs (granted, at the time the 3rd back was Ivory instead of Sproles, but still....) Matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken there were several posts on this very board to that point.

:goodposting:Best post of the thread! There is a great deal of crying in this thread blaming FBGs. You should blame yourselves for being foolish. I sometimes wonder how many people on this board actually watch as many games as possible and how many only purchase FF info and read stat lines. Anyone who has watched the Saints games could only get excited about Ingram's potential.
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

I haven't seen this, though I see many claim it.
If you havent seen it then you havent been watching the games or even reading the basic stats. Thomas is outplaying Ingram per touch, by a large margin.

Rushing Statistics

Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD

Mark Ingram 62 216 3.5 17 2

Pierre Thomas 34 154 4.5 21 0

Receiving Statistics

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Pierre Thomas 14 133 9.5 19 1

Mark Ingram 6 17 2.8 9 0

If either player goes down, the other one becomes much more valuable. Thomas has looked much better this year, although Ingram is getting more carries. If you don't see that then you aren't watching the games.

This is very flawed analysis. I'm one of Pierre's biggest supporters, and he hasn't looked as impressive as Ingram. Ingram has had the bulk of short yardage carries which has his ypc skewed. Defenses have really keyed on him in those situations
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

I haven't seen this, though I see many claim it.
If you havent seen it then you havent been watching the games or even reading the basic stats. Thomas is outplaying Ingram per touch, by a large margin.

Rushing Statistics

Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD

Mark Ingram 62 216 3.5 17 2

Pierre Thomas 34 154 4.5 21 0

Receiving Statistics

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Pierre Thomas 14 133 9.5 19 1

Mark Ingram 6 17 2.8 9 0

If either player goes down, the other one becomes much more valuable. Thomas has looked much better this year, although Ingram is getting more carries. If you don't see that then you aren't watching the games.

This is very flawed analysis. I'm one of Pierre's biggest supporters, and he hasn't looked as impressive as Ingram. Ingram has had the bulk of short yardage carries which has his ypc skewed. Defenses have really keyed on him in those situations
Not to mention, Ingram is a rookie and didn't have the normal training camp time to get accustom to the offense (see full and extremely detailed play book, blocking assignments, audibles, etc).
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So you expect tiny Sproles or Mr Glass Pierre Thomas to stay healthy? It only takes one to go down for him to be relevant this season.

I see this point brought up quite a bit.

I rarely see anyone consider that that one cuts both ways -- Ingram could just as easily get hurt, and lose whatever value he still has.

Thats cool too: If you drafted Ingram then you should also have drafted Thomas. In the Saints games I've watched this year, Thomas has outplayed Ingram anyway.

I can't imaging a scenario where someone would draft Ingram relatively early and not take Thomas. If your league has short benches then you should have rated Ingram far lower on your draft board. He was never poised to be a #1 guy without an injury to Thomas/Sproles. It was a similar situation to San Diego's tandem of Mathews and Tolbert this offseason. Plan on taking both if you want to draft either one.

I haven't seen this, though I see many claim it.
If you havent seen it then you havent been watching the games or even reading the basic stats. Thomas is outplaying Ingram per touch, by a large margin.

Rushing Statistics

Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD

Mark Ingram 62 216 3.5 17 2

Pierre Thomas 34 154 4.5 21 0

Receiving Statistics

Player Rec Yds Yds/Rec Long TD

Pierre Thomas 14 133 9.5 19 1

Mark Ingram 6 17 2.8 9 0

If either player goes down, the other one becomes much more valuable. Thomas has looked much better this year, although Ingram is getting more carries. If you don't see that then you aren't watching the games.

I'm not trying to defend the Ingram season but if you have been watching the games like I have you'll see that Ingram is only running in obvious running situations. Thomas is being run in mostly pass downs and sneaky plays. I believe that Ingram is making the most of his opportunities and I'd go so far as to say that he looks damn good on the one cut. If New Orleans would open up the playbook for him (draw plays, misdirection) he'd be close to where some of the experts here thought he'd be. But, as we've seen there is no need to do that because there are three complimentary backs that are all producing. They've got wins so you can't knock it, but they have also come close to losing some due to the irrational playcalling.
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You do realize the reason FBG exists (and a large portion of their target audience who subscribe to them) is so people can blindly follow them, right?

I get that, but if you're so disinterested in playing FF that you can't be bothered to do your own research, why bother? You might as well just take all your FF money and go buy a bunch of scratch-off lotto tickets if that's the case.I like FBG and I think it's a great tool, but at the end of the day I'm going to trust my own observations if they are different.
Eventhough I love ff I simply don't have the time to comb over hours and hours of film to judge talent. I watch the games and I do to trust my own judgement and ingram to me looked as everything you could want from a bell cow rb. Once again I will re-itterate that every staffer was in agreement on ingram's talent being utilized in the saints offence. Ingram owners were promised a top 15 rb.........the hype was insane with many staffers saying his ceiling was 1200 yards and double digit td's.
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