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Mark Ingram


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Beautiful TD run.If you can't see it is as plain as day this kid a special player.....you have no clue.

Devil's advocate:That's one play -- show me more ... and sustain it.
Ingram be their feature back at some point. Certainly by next season. Until then, he'll be inconsistent simply because of the lack of touches.Eyeballs tell me this kid is going to be a stud, though. Lots of people are going to have to change their minds about Ingram. Not only is he a special talent, he's also in a good situation (again, when he becomes their feature back...& it's going to happen...Payton isn't dumb).
He's not in a good situation by any sense of the imagination. Payton just won't commit to a hefty run game, let alone one back. People need to stop pushing this line of thought. But yes, he absolutely is talented. It's as plain as day.
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
Or just a better RB
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
Or just a better RB
More than likely so but that doesn't explain your reply to defenders being in the backfield on most rushing plays.
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
Or just a better RB
More than likely so but that doesn't explain your reply to defenders being in the backfield on most rushing plays.
I just fail to see the upside of a RB whose O-Line can't keep a banged up D out of the backfield
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
Or just a better RB
You're telling me Gore is currently better than Ingram....thanks Scoop!!
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More negative and no gain rushes than positives.

I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line? :shrug:
Or just a better RB
You're telling me Gore is currently better than Ingram....thanks Scoop!!
Who said anything about Gore?
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Guest Luke Skywalker

Saints offensive line was terrible today. Kreutz needs to take his sorry butt back to the bench where it belongs. Noticeable dropoff from Brian DLP to Kreutz at center.

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Beautiful TD run.

If you can't see it is as plain as day this kid a special player.....you have no clue.

Devil's advocate:

That's one play -- show me more ... and sustain it.

This is two weeks in the last 3 with a TD. The kid needs time.
...and 5 of the last 6 averaging under 4ypc. But, hey, for the second time this year he managed to not have the lowest ypc of the Saints RBs, so that's gotta represent some sort of upward trend...or at least a singular data point. Bottom line: he's still underutilized and underperforming compared to his stablemates when he gets touches. Maybe he needs 20 touches to get a rhythm and get productive. Payton doesn't seem that sort of coach and the Saints aren't that type of team. Short of a bye-week flex play, Sproles is the only back worth playing.
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Beautiful TD run.

If you can't see it is as plain as day this kid a special player.....you have no clue.

Devil's advocate:

That's one play -- show me more ... and sustain it.

This is two weeks in the last 3 with a TD. The kid needs time.
...and 5 of the last 6 averaging under 4ypc. But, hey, for the second time this year he managed to not have the lowest ypc of the Saints RBs, so that's gotta represent some sort of upward trend...or at least a singular data point. Bottom line: he's still underutilized and underperforming compared to his stablemates when he gets touches. Maybe he needs 20 touches to get a rhythm and get productive. Payton doesn't seem that sort of coach and the Saints aren't that type of team. Short of a bye-week flex play, Sproles is the only back worth playing.
I think getting between 8-12 points is not a bad option.
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Saints offensive line was terrible today. Kreutz needs to take his sorry butt back to the bench where it belongs. Noticeable dropoff from Brian DLP to Kreutz at center.

this is really the story. it wasn't just ingram who couldn't run after all. brees had the pocket blown up over and over again. kruetz must be a terrific field general because he is pretty useless otherwise.
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Saints offensive line was terrible today. Kreutz needs to take his sorry butt back to the bench where it belongs. Noticeable dropoff from Brian DLP to Kreutz at center.

this is really the story. it wasn't just ingram who couldn't run after all. brees had the pocket blown up over and over again. kruetz must be a terrific field general because he is pretty useless otherwise.
He's been terrible for two years prior.
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Still getting more and more negative on Ingram in 2011. Obviously this time share isn't going away.

That being said, if you can get him for dirt cheap in re-draft, stash him on your roster just in case of an injury or a "revelation" by the coach. But the Oline isn't run-blocking or pass blocking for that matter.

However, Ingram's talent is undeniable.

In dynasty, I would be a bigtime buyer if you can.

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On his TD run I think Vince wilfork could have run it in untouched too. Anyone who found his TD as anything more than great blocking is wearing rose colored glasses. Ingram had one good 8 yard run around midfield all day. Color me unimpressed.

If you want to see a stud rb performance find alabamas last game.

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Saints offensive line was terrible today. Kreutz needs to take his sorry butt back to the bench where it belongs. Noticeable dropoff from Brian DLP to Kreutz at center.

this is really the story. it wasn't just ingram who couldn't run after all. brees had the pocket blown up over and over again. kruetz must be a terrific field general because he is pretty useless otherwise.
He's been terrible for two years prior.
i have heard as much. i didn't mind the signing, if kreutz was a back up, but as a starter? oof.
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Saints offensive line was terrible today. Kreutz needs to take his sorry butt back to the bench where it belongs. Noticeable dropoff from Brian DLP to Kreutz at center.

this is really the story. it wasn't just ingram who couldn't run after all. brees had the pocket blown up over and over again. kruetz must be a terrific field general because he is pretty useless otherwise.
Kreutz is an immense part of the Saints' overall offensive issues. Opposing defensive lines, no matter how (un)talented, have owned the middle of the box all year long. Little wonder that Payton has fallen in love with Sproles running to the outside all the time.
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I just saw too many plays where everyone was either hit in the back field or running for their lives. It starts with better blocking for everyone in NO.

:goodposting:

If Ingram were on the Ravens, Steelers, or 49ers, he'd be going nuts.

But he's not :kicksrock:

Edited by Doug B
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The Ingram sucks crowd=Very impatient..

Not many RB's blow it up their first seasons... Many of todays top performers were less sought after earlier in their careers.

Only 1 of these top 10 PPR RB's had a certain future after their rookie season..

1. Jackson, Fred

2. Forte, Matt

3. McCoy, LeSean

4. McFadden, Darren

5. Rice, Ray

6. Best, Jahvid

7. Bradshaw, Ahmad

8. Peterson, Adrian

9. Mathews, Ryan

10. Sproles, Darren

Edited by Carolina Hustler
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On his TD run I think Vince wilfork could have run it in untouched too. Anyone who found his TD as anything more than great blocking is wearing rose colored glasses. Ingram had one good 8 yard run around midfield all day. Color me unimpressed. If you want to see a stud rb performance find alabamas last game.

Have you considered beginning a T Richardson thread?Next week....SNF....Ingram coming out party! 100 yards and 2 Touchgoals! :excited:
Have to start him on Gore's bye
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On his TD run I think Vince wilfork could have run it in untouched too. Anyone who found his TD as anything more than great blocking is wearing rose colored glasses. Ingram had one good 8 yard run around midfield all day. Color me unimpressed.

If you want to see a stud rb performance find alabamas last game.

Irrelevant.

Although....I might be starting a Richardson HOF thread in a few months. LOL

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Watching Alabama and Ole Miss on the DVR. The Ingram love befuddles me, it was so obvious he was the second best back on his own college team. Ingram can be Rudi Johnson if force fed 20 carries a game. Richardson is an equivelent prospect to ADP in my eyes. All aboard for Richardson.

Are you an NFL Scout?
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Watching Alabama and Ole Miss on the DVR. The Ingram love befuddles me, it was so obvious he was the second best back on his own college team. Ingram can be Rudi Johnson if force fed 20 carries a game. Richardson is an equivelent prospect to ADP in my eyes. All aboard for Richardson.

So because Richardson is more talented, that somehow negates Ingram's talent? Man, that explains why we never heard anything of that Thurman Thomas guy....
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If Ingram were on the Ravens, Steelers, or 49ers, he'd be going nuts.

And yet the premise of this thread was that he was a lock for the HOF because he went to the Saints.
Sorry, no one's got a perfect crystal ball. I'm sure your own takes don't hit 100%....One thing I didn't account for when evaluating Ingram -- and refuse to believe can continue for 16 games -- is Darren Sproles being the team's leading rusher thorugh the first four games. Ingram has passed him now (FWIW). There was no way Sproles was going to be able to sustain a 200-touch workload while returning kicks & punts. Sproles got but one carry (for 16 yds) against the Buccaneers -- makes me wonder if his role is being purposely curtailed.Another thing I didn't account for was the regression of the Saints' O-line, as discussed upthread. It's not just Kreutz and fill-in RT Charles Brown, though -- I don't think any of the five are holding up there end in the run game.
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The Ingram sucks crowd=Very impatient..Not many RB's blow it up their first seasons... Many of todays top performers were less sought after earlier in their careers.Only 1 of these top 10 PPR RB's had a certain future after their rookie season..1. Jackson, Fred2. Forte, Matt3. McCoy, LeSean4. McFadden, Darren5. Rice, Ray6. Best, Jahvid7. Bradshaw, Ahmad8. Peterson, Adrian9. Mathews, Ryan10. Sproles, Darren

forte and peterson=2.
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I'm skeptical of Ingram's dynasty prospects (but have still sent out lowball offers).

I'd send out offers, but I play with fellow Saints homers :D The guy who drafted Reggie Bush as a rookie kept him every year (we keep six) until his trade to Miami. Edited by Doug B
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The Ingram sucks crowd=Very impatient..Not many RB's blow it up their first seasons... Many of todays top performers were less sought after earlier in their careers.Only 1 of these top 10 PPR RB's had a certain future after their rookie season..1. Jackson, Fred2. Forte, Matt3. McCoy, LeSean4. McFadden, Darren5. Rice, Ray6. Best, Jahvid7. Bradshaw, Ahmad8. Peterson, Adrian9. Mathews, Ryan10. Sproles, Darren

forte and peterson=2.
And while you can say that other guys had "uncertain futures", guys like Jackson and Rice had stupendous YPC averages, unlike Ingram.
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If Ingram were on the Ravens, Steelers, or 49ers, he'd be going nuts.

And yet the premise of this thread was that he was a lock for the HOF because he went to the Saints.
I thought the Saints were a perfect fit. Looks like I was wrong. I figured that moving up in the draft to get him would mean that Payton had big plans. He probably still does, but at this point he hasn't given Ingram a ton of carries to prove it.Also, the run-blocking has been far better in previous years than this year. It's not as if any other RB has been setting the backfield on fire either. Make excuses or not, when you get hit the minute you get the ball, your effectiveness is going ot diminish. Marshawn Lynch is a great example. I'm convinced that he is a much better RB than he has ever had the chance to prove, due to horrible blocking his entire career. I'm no longer drinking the "perfect situation" koolaid, and was definitely in the wrong on that one. But my opinion of Ingram hasn't changed a bit and I think that he will still be a stud. Just the perfect build for a RB. Looks like a mack truck out there, and is far more elusive than your usual "power runner".A quick word about Richardson. Richardson is perhaps the best college RB I've ever seen. Reminds me of Bo Jackson. Why? The blend of speed and power. He NEVER goes down on first contact, and yet if he finds a seam he is gone. But that doesn't diminish the fact that I think Ingram is an amazing pro. Richardson will certainly be more flashy, but Ingram could end up with the better career, depending on circumstances.And the comparisons to Rudi Johnson are horrible, btw. Nothing similar about their games.
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Ingram is a special talent. I don't think it takes a genius to see that. Some of the gloom surrounding Ingram's current situation reminds of the talk concerning Forte when he was going through his low YPC era. Some of those guys were so adamant about Forte being a mediocre RB, overrated, etc. Eyeballs are always the best judge of talent.

Talent will always win out (if the player is getting a chance, which Ingram definitely will). This is simply a matter of time.

Edited by Football Jones
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On top of what shader just wrote, yet another problem souring the situation for Ingram is that the Saints are back to calling passes on 60+% of their plays (63%). If that keeps up, the rushing pie will never be big enough to split.

When Ingram was drafted, I think it was reasonable to assume that Payton wanted to get back to the title year's run/pass ratio (45/55). For whatever reasons (O-line decline is one), balancing out the run/pass hasn't happened for the 2011 Saints.

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If Ingram were on the Ravens, Steelers, or 49ers, he'd be going nuts.

And yet the premise of this thread was that he was a lock for the HOF because he went to the Saints.
Of note is that Saints' GM Mickey Loomis played a financial game of chicken with former Saints C Jonathan Goodwin. The 49ers stepped in and swiped Goodwin from under the Saints' noses. Now, Frank Gore looks like a new man, and the Saints are limping along with the physically-shot Kreutz.
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Not sure how to respond, hopefully my post is in the right context. :)

But I drafted Ingram in 2 leagues, with 1 there is nothing out there to get

so I'm keeping Ingram an hope he turns it around, not holding my breath.

In the other I dropped him this week, no one wanted him for trade, redraft

league, and I'm struggling to win now so I can't afford to stand pat there.

He's more then likely going to be a great player, but I just don't see much

fantasy value this year with everyone else there and how they run either.

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Finally forced to start Ingram.If he gets double digit points I'm a supergenius.

Not really. In my league, he's basically scored double digits 3/6 weeks (if you count 9.8 as being close enough to 10). With his worst weeks being the first two, which is predictable for a rookie, that's 3 out of the last 4 weeks with double-digit production. Not much more than 10, mind you, but its still double-digits. I think its reasonable to expect that he gets more involved, rather than less, as the year goes on.
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Finally forced to start Ingram.If he gets double digit points I'm a supergenius.

Not really. In my league, he's basically scored double digits 3/6 weeks (if you count 9.8 as being close enough to 10). With his worst weeks being the first two, which is predictable for a rookie, that's 3 out of the last 4 weeks with double-digit production. Not much more than 10, mind you, but its still double-digits. I think its reasonable to expect that he gets more involved, rather than less, as the year goes on.
Agreed. Thus far, his production certainly hinges on him getting the TD, but I dont see how his touches/yardage goes down. He's been a serviceable flex/low-end RB2 for the last month because of the TDs
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Guest Luke Skywalker

Of note is that Saints' GM Mickey Loomis played a financial game of chicken with former Saints C Jonathan Goodwin. The 49ers stepped in and swiped Goodwin from under the Saints' noses. Now, Frank Gore looks like a new man, and the Saints are limping along with the physically-shot Kreutz.

:yes: Ingram owners should keep a close eye on the Saints' center situation. When Kreutz got hurt for a couple games, he was replaced by some guy named Brian De La Puente who has been on like 6 different teams in 3 years and DLP noticeably outperformed him.If Kreutz is benched (and I suspect he will be soon), the Saints run productivity will go up.
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Man, if you guys are flat out dropping him I guess I feel good about getting Jennings for him. I dont think his value has dropped that far yet.

Jennings, as in Greg? I think I would feel pretty good to get that in return as well...Anyway, I too am forced to start him this week with byes and injuries. If he can't get it done this week in a game they should be up in and against a hapless Colts run D then he may not be worth much this season.
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