What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Greg Olsen signs with Seattle; with rumors to start rap career with Macklemore (1 Viewer)

The Bears will receive a 2012 third-round pick from the Panthers in exchange for Greg Olsen.

After some speculation that LB Dan Connor was involved, it turns out the two teams couldn't agree on a player. The draft pick was then upgraded. We know Panthers GM Marty Hurney has few qualms parting with picks. The Chicago Sun-Times reports Olsen has agreed to extension in Carolina to tie up the final loose end

1 3rd isn't too shabby
So the Bears got a third round pick for a former first rounder. It is just pitiful and sad. A completely ####### trade. So now the Bears have one less guy to catch passes. :wall:

 
The Bears will receive a 2012 third-round pick from the Panthers in exchange for Greg Olsen.

After some speculation that LB Dan Connor was involved, it turns out the two teams couldn't agree on a player. The draft pick was then upgraded. We know Panthers GM Marty Hurney has few qualms parting with picks. The Chicago Sun-Times reports Olsen has agreed to extension in Carolina to tie up the final loose end

1 3rd isn't too shabby
So the Bears got a third round pick for a former first rounder. It is just pitiful and sad. A completely ####### trade. So now the Bears have one less guy to catch passes. :wall:
You cannot look at it like that. It does not matter where Olsen was drafted at this point...he isnt a draft pick anymore, he is an NFL player and he is mediocre. He is soft and has questionable hands and does not fit the offensive scheme they are running right now.
 
Can someone explain this to me? So far we have not hear any rumors or signs that the Bears are going after one of the many WR's still out there that would be instant upgrades at WR for them. The only buzz I have heard was Brad Smith. Yea, good player but not what they need. On top of that, there is no rumor or buzz about them going after OL. Then to top it all off, they go and trade the best target they had on the team for Cutler.

Huh?

 
I'm surprised we got that much. If newton has any growing pains (he likely will) it should be a pick in the late 60-early 70 range. Not bad.

And for.those of you saying the bears will waste the pick, they only waste first rounders and the occasional second rounder. Third and on tend to be decent!

 
Can someone explain this to me? So far we have not hear any rumors or signs that the Bears are going after one of the many WR's still out there that would be instant upgrades at WR for them. The only buzz I have heard was Brad Smith. Yea, good player but not what they need. On top of that, there is no rumor or buzz about them going after OL. Then to top it all off, they go and trade the best target they had on the team for Cutler. Huh?
'Carolina Hustler said:
Malcom Floyd - WR - ChargersThe Bears have made contact with free agent Malcom Floyd.Nothing is close here, but the Bears are poking around for an upgrade at wide receiver. If they are going to let Greg Olsen go, they could certainly use some size to go with Johnny Knox and Earl Bennett. The problem is that Floyd's pricetag could escalate quickly as the Vikings have shown interest as well.Related: BearsSource: Chicago TribuneJul 28, 11:56 AM
Report: Bears begin pursuit of Roy WilliamsThe Chicago Tribune reports the Bears have "started their pursuit" of free agent WR Roy Williams.With Greg Olsen heading to Carolina, the Bears are in the market for a big receiver to run more three-wide sets. We expect this signing to be fast-tracked considering Williams' history with Mike Martz and WRs coach Darryl Drake.Source: Vaughn McClure on TwitterJul 28, 6:04 PM
:popcorn:
 
Can someone explain this to me? So far we have not hear any rumors or signs that the Bears are going after one of the many WR's still out there that would be instant upgrades at WR for them. The only buzz I have heard was Brad Smith. Yea, good player but not what they need. On top of that, there is no rumor or buzz about them going after OL. Then to top it all off, they go and trade the best target they had on the team for Cutler. Huh?
'Carolina Hustler said:
Malcom Floyd - WR - ChargersThe Bears have made contact with free agent Malcom Floyd.Nothing is close here, but the Bears are poking around for an upgrade at wide receiver. If they are going to let Greg Olsen go, they could certainly use some size to go with Johnny Knox and Earl Bennett. The problem is that Floyd's pricetag could escalate quickly as the Vikings have shown interest as well.Related: BearsSource: Chicago TribuneJul 28, 11:56 AM
Report: Bears begin pursuit of Roy WilliamsThe Chicago Tribune reports the Bears have "started their pursuit" of free agent WR Roy Williams.With Greg Olsen heading to Carolina, the Bears are in the market for a big receiver to run more three-wide sets. We expect this signing to be fast-tracked considering Williams' history with Mike Martz and WRs coach Darryl Drake.Source: Vaughn McClure on TwitterJul 28, 6:04 PM
:popcorn:
Roy Williams? really?
 
Can someone explain this to me? So far we have not hear any rumors or signs that the Bears are going after one of the many WR's still out there that would be instant upgrades at WR for them. The only buzz I have heard was Brad Smith. Yea, good player but not what they need. On top of that, there is no rumor or buzz about them going after OL. Then to top it all off, they go and trade the best target they had on the team for Cutler. Huh?
'Carolina Hustler said:
Malcom Floyd - WR - ChargersThe Bears have made contact with free agent Malcom Floyd.Nothing is close here, but the Bears are poking around for an upgrade at wide receiver. If they are going to let Greg Olsen go, they could certainly use some size to go with Johnny Knox and Earl Bennett. The problem is that Floyd's pricetag could escalate quickly as the Vikings have shown interest as well.Related: BearsSource: Chicago TribuneJul 28, 11:56 AM
Report: Bears begin pursuit of Roy WilliamsThe Chicago Tribune reports the Bears have "started their pursuit" of free agent WR Roy Williams.With Greg Olsen heading to Carolina, the Bears are in the market for a big receiver to run more three-wide sets. We expect this signing to be fast-tracked considering Williams' history with Mike Martz and WRs coach Darryl Drake.Source: Vaughn McClure on TwitterJul 28, 6:04 PM
:popcorn:
Roy Williams? really?
Doesn't sound like a great option to FF guys, but he's one of the better FA WR's left..
 
Can someone explain this to me? So far we have not hear any rumors or signs that the Bears are going after one of the many WR's still out there that would be instant upgrades at WR for them. The only buzz I have heard was Brad Smith. Yea, good player but not what they need. On top of that, there is no rumor or buzz about them going after OL. Then to top it all off, they go and trade the best target they had on the team for Cutler. Huh?
'Carolina Hustler said:
Malcom Floyd - WR - ChargersThe Bears have made contact with free agent Malcom Floyd.Nothing is close here, but the Bears are poking around for an upgrade at wide receiver. If they are going to let Greg Olsen go, they could certainly use some size to go with Johnny Knox and Earl Bennett. The problem is that Floyd's pricetag could escalate quickly as the Vikings have shown interest as well.Related: BearsSource: Chicago TribuneJul 28, 11:56 AM
Report: Bears begin pursuit of Roy WilliamsThe Chicago Tribune reports the Bears have "started their pursuit" of free agent WR Roy Williams.With Greg Olsen heading to Carolina, the Bears are in the market for a big receiver to run more three-wide sets. We expect this signing to be fast-tracked considering Williams' history with Mike Martz and WRs coach Darryl Drake.Source: Vaughn McClure on TwitterJul 28, 6:04 PM
:popcorn:
Roy Williams? really?
Doesn't sound like a great option to FF guys, but he's one of the better FA WR's left..
And sadly would be an upgrade to that sorry group of WR's.... which tells you more about who they already have than anything else.
 
The Bears will receive a 2012 third-round pick from the Panthers in exchange for Greg Olsen.

After some speculation that LB Dan Connor was involved, it turns out the two teams couldn't agree on a player. The draft pick was then upgraded. We know Panthers GM Marty Hurney has few qualms parting with picks. The Chicago Sun-Times reports Olsen has agreed to extension in Carolina to tie up the final loose end

1 3rd isn't too shabby
So the Bears got a third round pick for a former first rounder. It is just pitiful and sad. A completely ####### trade. So now the Bears have one less guy to catch passes. :wall:
You cannot look at it like that. It does not matter where Olsen was drafted at this point...he isnt a draft pick anymore, he is an NFL player and he is mediocre. He is soft and has questionable hands and does not fit the offensive scheme they are running right now.
This guy, who seems to carry a rep for bad hands, has had the 2nd best overall TE catch percentage in the NFL over the past three years. He almost never drops a catchable ball.link

I agree with your other points, but it always mystifies me when people say that about Olsen. He has fantastic hands.

 
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter More deals! Chicago Tribune reporting that Bears traded TE Greg Olsen to Panthers for a player to be named later and a draft pick.
So that moron Angelo traded Olsen, a first round pick, for a player to be named later, which means a scrub, and a draft pick. My guess is the draft pick is a fourth or less. Angelo has done a lot of stupid things, but this should be the last. He is a complete idiot. He should be fired. I can't even say how disgusted I am.
Yup- I fear we are going to get the no frill effort from the Bears again with some more rhetoric about how they almost went to the SB. This team is sitting pretty with a lot of dough under the cap with one of the best fan bases in the NFL and they make headlines signing a punter and trading a stud TE away for the chance for Jerry to obtain more offensive gold...
Ok, I don't want him dead, but he should have to leave Halas hall in chains. I hate that guy
 
Lets not kid ourselves, in an NFL with lots of athletic TEs, Olsen is middle of the road. In an offense that doesn't utilize the TE often and he is in the last year of his contract....it makes sense.
The question is- what are they going to get in return? It looks like they are going to get middle of the road in return. If Olsen is middle of the road, what does that say about an offense that was ranked 30th last year, 28th in passing yards and 21st in PPG? The reason why the NFL is loaded with athletic TEs is due to the fact that this is a trend in the NFL. So why did they waste a first round draft pick on Olsen if they felt he was middle of the road?
Umm, pretty sure when they drafted him in the first round 5 yrs ago they were hoping he would be better than middle of the road. Just a hunch
:goodposting: Olsen doesn't play as fast as his timed speed.Also in an NFL you have to go against trends. First it was the big DT's...then it was the cover 2....then the 3-4. Or run n shoot/k gun...good run game...zone blocking....then show on turf...then 2 good RB's in a committee...then spread...now spread with mismatch players...This game is always evolving
The current trend that the Bears are going against is the "acquire good players" trend.
 
Predictions for Olsen's stats in Carolina?

Why the Roy hate? Martz made good use of him in Detroit. I see a FF WR2 if he goes to Chicago.

 
The Bears will receive a 2012 third-round pick from the Panthers in exchange for Greg Olsen.

After some speculation that LB Dan Connor was involved, it turns out the two teams couldn't agree on a player. The draft pick was then upgraded. We know Panthers GM Marty Hurney has few qualms parting with picks. The Chicago Sun-Times reports Olsen has agreed to extension in Carolina to tie up the final loose end

1 3rd isn't too shabby
So the Bears got a third round pick for a former first rounder. It is just pitiful and sad. A completely ####### trade. So now the Bears have one less guy to catch passes. :wall:
You cannot look at it like that. It does not matter where Olsen was drafted at this point...he isnt a draft pick anymore, he is an NFL player and he is mediocre. He is soft and has questionable hands and does not fit the offensive scheme they are running right now.
This guy, who seems to carry a rep for bad hands, has had the 2nd best overall TE catch percentage in the NFL over the past three years. He almost never drops a catchable ball.link

I agree with your other points, but it always mystifies me when people say that about Olsen. He has fantastic hands.
Maybe what I meant to say was he has weak hands. The guy is easily dislodged from the ball when he gets hit. That would be the more accurate way of describing it, and thats not a good trait for a tight end.
 
'RBM said:
'Holy Schneikes said:
'RBM said:
'twistd said:
'comfortably numb said:
The Bears will receive a 2012 third-round pick from the Panthers in exchange for Greg Olsen.

After some speculation that LB Dan Connor was involved, it turns out the two teams couldn't agree on a player. The draft pick was then upgraded. We know Panthers GM Marty Hurney has few qualms parting with picks. The Chicago Sun-Times reports Olsen has agreed to extension in Carolina to tie up the final loose end

1 3rd isn't too shabby
So the Bears got a third round pick for a former first rounder. It is just pitiful and sad. A completely ####### trade. So now the Bears have one less guy to catch passes. :wall:
You cannot look at it like that. It does not matter where Olsen was drafted at this point...he isnt a draft pick anymore, he is an NFL player and he is mediocre. He is soft and has questionable hands and does not fit the offensive scheme they are running right now.
This guy, who seems to carry a rep for bad hands, has had the 2nd best overall TE catch percentage in the NFL over the past three years. He almost never drops a catchable ball.link

I agree with your other points, but it always mystifies me when people say that about Olsen. He has fantastic hands.
Maybe what I meant to say was he has weak hands. The guy is easily dislodged from the ball when he gets hit. That would be the more accurate way of describing it, and thats not a good trait for a tight end.
I would guess that scenario would be included in the above statistic. I think he has toughened up considerably since his rookie season. I don't recall too many balls getting dislodged last year for example (at least not any more than anyone else - sometimes if you get blasted by a full-steam LB in the middle of the reception, you aren't going to come up with the ball). He's had 3 lost fumbles in his career - 2 in his soph year and 1 last year. Again, that's about the same as everyone else. You would think weak hands might lead to a bigger number.
 
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'RBM said:
'Power Monster said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
Lets not kid ourselves, in an NFL with lots of athletic TEs, Olsen is middle of the road. In an offense that doesn't utilize the TE often and he is in the last year of his contract....it makes sense.
The question is- what are they going to get in return? It looks like they are going to get middle of the road in return. If Olsen is middle of the road, what does that say about an offense that was ranked 30th last year, 28th in passing yards and 21st in PPG? The reason why the NFL is loaded with athletic TEs is due to the fact that this is a trend in the NFL. So why did they waste a first round draft pick on Olsen if they felt he was middle of the road?
Umm, pretty sure when they drafted him in the first round 5 yrs ago they were hoping he would be better than middle of the road. Just a hunch
:goodposting: Olsen doesn't play as fast as his timed speed.Also in an NFL you have to go against trends. First it was the big DT's...then it was the cover 2....then the 3-4. Or run n shoot/k gun...good run game...zone blocking....then show on turf...then 2 good RB's in a committee...then spread...now spread with mismatch players...This game is always evolving
Against trends? Yes- that is Jumping Jerry's motive. They just wasted a first round pick. Middle of the road? How many lousy QBs did this guy see prior to Cutler? Also- I did not think that Olsen was supposed to be the center piece of this offense. I looked at him as more of a compliment to the passing game. My point is with Olsen in the offense he produced some 13-15 TDs in the past two seasons when they had a respectable QB. I think that those are solid numbers for a TE. Only time will tell what Jerry will do with a third round pick. Perhaps another DT that will never pan out?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think it's a fair trade on both sides. This trade won't help Chicago this year, it's hard for me to see Chicago moving forward off of last year.
I think the Bears got next to nothing for a pretty solid player. It was a stupid trade and Angelo should get ripped for it. They had a very weak group of receivers coming in to this season, now they have one less.
 
'DropKick said:
Pure speculation but I wonder if Olsen wanted out... perhaps a rift with Martz or Cutler?
I think it is more about TE's just not being a good fit in the Martz system (or at least pass catching TE's). Which makes sense and is fine but I think the frustration comes in (if you are a Bears fan) in that they go out and get Cutler. Then they bring Martz in. But now that have a talented QB without pieces around him and an offensive system that does not fit the personnel that they have... I think that is something most fans can live with but then you add in how it seems that they have very little interest in bringing in OL and WR's while further getting rid of one of their more talented pieces for Cutler. Great Angelo, you got a 3rd.... what are you going to do to protect your QB and give him some guys to throw to?
 
Greg is going to a better place. He'll be utilzed much more professionally and actualy a better fantasy player IMO

as for the Bears they ding bat heads have allowed alot of Quality get past them and sitting on a second tier of Tackles/Guards. But it will all be revealed tomorrow.

 
'DropKick said:
Pure speculation but I wonder if Olsen wanted out... perhaps a rift with Martz or Cutler?
I think it is more about TE's just not being a good fit in the Martz system (or at least pass catching TE's). Which makes sense and is fine but I think the frustration comes in (if you are a Bears fan) in that they go out and get Cutler. Then they bring Martz in. But now that have a talented QB without pieces around him and an offensive system that does not fit the personnel that they have... I think that is something most fans can live with but then you add in how it seems that they have very little interest in bringing in OL and WR's while further getting rid of one of their more talented pieces for Cutler. Great Angelo, you got a 3rd.... what are you going to do to protect your QB and give him some guys to throw to?
:goodposting:
 
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet.

And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways.

The outrage over this is bizarre.

 
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
I think it's wrong to call him 'unremarkable' based on last season in a system not made for TE's. However getting a 3rd for a guy in the last year of his contract who you're not going to re-sign is a good move.
 
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
Olsen was misused by the Bears. I believe Olsen will go on to be a top ten TE. Before the 2010 draft the Patriots and the Bears had a trade in place for Olsen for a second round pick. The Patriots backed out, and proceeded to draft Gronkowski and Hernandez. The Patriots were very interested and they are exceptionally good at grabbing players that are not being used properly that will fit in to their system. Welker is a prime example. I believe that demonstrated that Olsen was a lot more talented then it appeared by his stats because the Bears weren't using him properly. I believe that in Carolina he will do very well. As to Angelo's drafting, I like Carimi and Paea this year, but Angelo has really not done well drafting the last five years or so. From the 2010 draft Major Wright and J'Marcus Webb are the only starters. Webb was very mediocre last year and Wright hasn't done much. 2009 produced Johnny Knox and that is it. 2008 was good, Forte, Bennett, Marcus Harrison, Zack Bowman and Kellen Davis are all producing some. Chris Williams is a bust in my opinion. He failed as a tackle and he is a below average guard. But from the 2007 draft there is not a single player left on the team now. That is hardly a stellar record.
 
I think it's wrong to call him 'unremarkable' based on last season in a system not made for TE's. However getting a 3rd for a guy in the last year of his contract who you're not going to re-sign is a good move.
You're probably right, which is why I had his entire career in mind when I posted that, not just last year. My opinion on him has been static for years, and I've seen every NFL play he's been in. He's just not that good.
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
Olsen was misused by the Bears. I believe Olsen will go on to be a top ten TE. Before the 2010 draft the Patriots and the Bears had a trade in place for Olsen for a second round pick. The Patriots backed out, and proceeded to draft Gronkowski and Hernandez. The Patriots were very interested and they are exceptionally good at grabbing players that are not being used properly that will fit in to their system. Welker is a prime example. I believe that demonstrated that Olsen was a lot more talented then it appeared by his stats because the Bears weren't using him properly. I believe that in Carolina he will do very well. As to Angelo's drafting, I like Carimi and Paea this year, but Angelo has really not done well drafting the last five years or so. From the 2010 draft Major Wright and J'Marcus Webb are the only starters. Webb was very mediocre last year and Wright hasn't done much. 2009 produced Johnny Knox and that is it. 2008 was good, Forte, Bennett, Marcus Harrison, Zack Bowman and Kellen Davis are all producing some. Chris Williams is a bust in my opinion. He failed as a tackle and he is a below average guard. But from the 2007 draft there is not a single player left on the team now. That is hardly a stellar record.
You can maybe get away with arguing that he was misused last year, but what about the other four years? We're just going to blame everyone else in the organization but Greg for four straight years of underwhelming play? Appealing to the quasi-authority of the Patriots doesn't really fly, either, especially since your story is unverified rumor and they clearly didn't pull the trigger, anyways. Instead, they drafted two TEs that are far better than Olsen, which kind of undermines your point. I wasn't arguing that the Bears have a stellar draft record, because they haven't. Many of the drafts the Bears have had over the last decade were terrible, imo, even at the time they occurred. All I said was that we need to assess the Olsen trade on its own merits, and that the last draft was pretty strong.The Bears got great value for a very underwhelming player. It's a win for Angelo.
 
I think it's wrong to call him 'unremarkable' based on last season in a system not made for TE's. However getting a 3rd for a guy in the last year of his contract who you're not going to re-sign is a good move.
You're probably right, which is why I had his entire career in mind when I posted that, not just last year. My opinion on him has been static for years, and I've seen every NFL play he's been in. He's just not that good.
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
Olsen was misused by the Bears. I believe Olsen will go on to be a top ten TE. Before the 2010 draft the Patriots and the Bears had a trade in place for Olsen for a second round pick. The Patriots backed out, and proceeded to draft Gronkowski and Hernandez. The Patriots were very interested and they are exceptionally good at grabbing players that are not being used properly that will fit in to their system. Welker is a prime example. I believe that demonstrated that Olsen was a lot more talented then it appeared by his stats because the Bears weren't using him properly. I believe that in Carolina he will do very well. As to Angelo's drafting, I like Carimi and Paea this year, but Angelo has really not done well drafting the last five years or so. From the 2010 draft Major Wright and J'Marcus Webb are the only starters. Webb was very mediocre last year and Wright hasn't done much. 2009 produced Johnny Knox and that is it. 2008 was good, Forte, Bennett, Marcus Harrison, Zack Bowman and Kellen Davis are all producing some. Chris Williams is a bust in my opinion. He failed as a tackle and he is a below average guard. But from the 2007 draft there is not a single player left on the team now. That is hardly a stellar record.
You can maybe get away with arguing that he was misused last year, but what about the other four years? We're just going to blame everyone else in the organization but Greg for four straight years of underwhelming play? Appealing to the quasi-authority of the Patriots doesn't really fly, either, especially since your story is unverified rumor and they clearly didn't pull the trigger, anyways. Instead, they drafted two TEs that are far better than Olsen, which kind of undermines your point. I wasn't arguing that the Bears have a stellar draft record, because they haven't. Many of the drafts the Bears have had over the last decade were terrible, imo, even at the time they occurred. All I said was that we need to assess the Olsen trade on its own merits, and that the last draft was pretty strong.The Bears got great value for a very underwhelming player. It's a win for Angelo.
I think we are going to see a lot better production out of Olsen in Carolina than we saw here. Here is a more compelling argument that Olsen was misused:http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0729-pompei-bears-chicago--20110729,0,3177692.columnThe first two picks of the Bears draft I liked. Conte is probably another of Angelo's safety picks that can't play. Let's look at the list, shall we? Wright now gets a chance. Before him there was Alfalava, Steltz, Payne, and Manning. None of them very good. Enderle, a QB, was a stupid wasted pick. You draft a QB when you have a host of other needs. JT Thomas is probably a back up who might not make the team. If Carimi and Paea are solid this turns out to be a good draft, but the last few drafts have left a lot to be desired.
 
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
Who are these TEs that you speak about in the NFC North that are better then Olsen?If you look at the history of Angelo's first round picks (especially the offensive first round picks) or if you look at the Bear's first round picks in the last 10 years, you will see a waste land of stiffs and maybe 2 or 3 decent players who are no longer on the team. We simply do not TRUST the organization to go out and pick a stud in the first round. You have to go all the way back to 2000 to see Urlacher's name. Be careful going thru that list because there are a lot of stiffs in that list especially when you review the list back to the last time they won a SB. A lot of BAD! Angelo coming off a strong draft? Well the sun shines on a mule's ### once in a while. I will give Angelo the benefit of the doubt on defensive players but then even then...The organization seems to make a bigger impact in FA and these are usually "break fix" type scenarios when the fan base is screaming for a change at the upper eschelons of Halas Hall because of the crashing failure of their draft picks. Kellen Davis? Was he a first rounder? Why did the Bears's waste a pick on an unremarkable player? You are just proving the point that Olsen was another wasted first rounder if he was so average? And how is Kellen Davis suddenly going to be productive in the Martz offense that does not rely on the TE to produce yards and points?Also, if he was so unremarkable, why didn't the Bears move him last year and go out and get the stud WR that Martz so desperately needed to make his "system" work? The bottom line here is- Olsen is not the problem. The problem is- who is manning the ship? Too many chef salting the water makes the soup taste like turtle piss. And when you think about it, the problem on the field is the OL. This OL is atrocious and we are now hoping that YET another first round OT will bring manna to the 32nd ranked offensive line IF they sign their 1st round OT on time before he misses valuable camp time or gets hurt because he is out of shape as was the case with Williams and Colombo.
 
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears Carolina gave up Olsen for so little, though. And how the Bears accepted so little.

MW

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears gave up Olsen for so little, though.

MW
I agree 100%. I'd have preferred the Bears kept him if all you're going to get is a third round pick.You can never have enough talented players on your team. I really hope Olsen shines in Carolina and Angelo ends up looking like a boob yet again.
 
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears Carolina gave up Olsen for so little, though.

MW
I agree 100%. I'd have preferred the Bears kept him if all you're going to get is a third round pick.You can never have enough talented players on your team. I really hope Olsen shines in Carolina and Angelo ends up looking like a boob yet again.
Oops, I meant how the Panthers gave up so little. And how the Bears got so little. It seems like Martz just wanted Olsen gone. I guess maybe Olsen made too much noise about not getting the football...?

 
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears gave up Olsen for so little, though.

MW
I agree 100%. I'd have preferred the Bears kept him if all you're going to get is a third round pick.You can never have enough talented players on your team. I really hope Olsen shines in Carolina and Angelo ends up looking like a boob yet again.
Again, much more valuable players have routinely been traded for less. Do people think that they could have somehow flipped Olsen for a 1st or 2nd? No team would ever pay that. A 3rd was a great deal for a very replaceable player.
 
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears Carolina gave up Olsen for so little, though.

MW
I agree 100%. I'd have preferred the Bears kept him if all you're going to get is a third round pick.You can never have enough talented players on your team. I really hope Olsen shines in Carolina and Angelo ends up looking like a boob yet again.
Oops, I meant how the Panthers gave up so little. And how the Bears got so little. It seems like Martz just wanted Olsen gone. I guess maybe Olsen made too much noise about not getting the football...?
Olsen mentioned that there were many games in which he was doing nothing. I think Martz wanted him out to prove that he has control of the offense while Lovie and Jerry deal with the defense. Also- Martz MAY have made a move to break up the Cutler/Olsen bond. man- Cutler broke off his engagement and now he just lost his best friend on the team. Time to get a puppy...
 
'zamboni said:
Interesting move, considering they went out and got Shockey already.

Clearly they are trying to get some more weapons around Newton, but also seems be an indication that team brass is not overly satisfied with their WR group outside of Smith.
Looks to me that Carolina is making an effort to use a 2-TE set a la New England 2010 to help ease Cam Newton into the NFL. Having good blocking TEs also helps them utilize their very strong backfield. I like this particular move for the Panthers.I can't understand how the Bears gave up Olsen for so little, though.

MW
I agree 100%. I'd have preferred the Bears kept him if all you're going to get is a third round pick.You can never have enough talented players on your team. I really hope Olsen shines in Carolina and Angelo ends up looking like a boob yet again.
Again, much more valuable players have routinely been traded for less. Do people think that they could have somehow flipped Olsen for a 1st or 2nd? No team would ever pay that. A 3rd was a great deal for a very replaceable player.
I have heard of no one that wanted a first or second rounder. The majority of fans simply liked having Olsen on the team. We shall see what that third brings.
 
This thread is full of angry homers or people who don't know much about Olsen. I have been extremely critical of the Bears in the past, but this is a good trade. The Pats got Moss for a 4th two years ago. The Jets got Holmes last year for a 5th. The Chiefs got Cassel for a 2nd. Scheffler went for a 5th a couple years back also. Now, the Bears got a 3rd for a very unremarkable TE in Olsen, and people are complaining? Great deal. Do not be surprised if Kellen Davis steps in and puts up the same numbers as Olsen, because he is not special. There are probably 4 TEs in the NFC North alone better than Olsen today, not including rookies we haven't seen yet. And don't give me the "well its a bad trade because they can't draft at all!" thing, because if that's the case, why bother even commenting? Clearly, you hate the front office, and you shouldn't let your guesses at their future moves color your opinion of actual moves they did make. Judge the move on its own merits. Plus, Angelo is coming off a pretty strong draft, anyways. The outrage over this is bizarre.
Who are these TEs that you speak about in the NFC North that are better then Olsen?If you look at the history of Angelo's first round picks (especially the offensive first round picks) or if you look at the Bear's first round picks in the last 10 years, you will see a waste land of stiffs and maybe 2 or 3 decent players who are no longer on the team. We simply do not TRUST the organization to go out and pick a stud in the first round. You have to go all the way back to 2000 to see Urlacher's name. Be careful going thru that list because there are a lot of stiffs in that list especially when you review the list back to the last time they won a SB. A lot of BAD! Angelo coming off a strong draft? Well the sun shines on a mule's ### once in a while. I will give Angelo the benefit of the doubt on defensive players but then even then...The organization seems to make a bigger impact in FA and these are usually "break fix" type scenarios when the fan base is screaming for a change at the upper eschelons of Halas Hall because of the crashing failure of their draft picks. Kellen Davis? Was he a first rounder? Why did the Bears's waste a pick on an unremarkable player? You are just proving the point that Olsen was another wasted first rounder if he was so average? And how is Kellen Davis suddenly going to be productive in the Martz offense that does not rely on the TE to produce yards and points?Also, if he was so unremarkable, why didn't the Bears move him last year and go out and get the stud WR that Martz so desperately needed to make his "system" work? The bottom line here is- Olsen is not the problem. The problem is- who is manning the ship? Too many chef salting the water makes the soup taste like turtle piss. And when you think about it, the problem on the field is the OL. This OL is atrocious and we are now hoping that YET another first round OT will bring manna to the 32nd ranked offensive line IF they sign their 1st round OT on time before he misses valuable camp time or gets hurt because he is out of shape as was the case with Williams and Colombo.
The four TEs from the NFCN are not hard to figure out. Try the other three starters, maybe, and then look for another guy who has had a very similar career. Maybe we can call that guy a tie, at worst, although I think I would probably rather have him than Olsen.Again, is this the "We Hate Angelo's Drafts" thread, or the thread about Olsen being traded? No one said the Bears have a great track record drafting, so... why are we talking about this? And yes, indirectly, I am proving the point that Olsen was a wasted draft pick, although that wasn't the point. You say that as if that contradicts my point, but again, I am not saying that Angelo's drafts have been great. I'm not high on Olsen, of course I think it was a wasted pick! Olsen actually seemed like a good pick at the time, and pretty much all experts and fans lauded the pick. It didn't work out, though, and he was fairly disappointing. The Bears got good value for him by trading him now rather than let him go at the end of the season.Kellen Davis was not a 1st rounder, no, but you claim the Bears are terrible drafting in the first round, so... if he was a 1st rounder, wouldn't that mean nothing anyways? That's circular logic. I didn't say Davis was going to be a stud, I just said to not be surprised if he puts up the same numbers that Olsen did, which were not very impressive last season. He can do the same job in Martz's offense. Also, you ask why didn't the Bears trade him last season? Well, someone in this very thread already mentioned that it was widely speculated that they tried and may have had a deal in place that the Patriots backed out on. So...And yes, the OL is a mess, everyone acknowledges this. By citing that as "The Problem," you further undermine this outrage over trading Olsen. You're right, the OL is the primary problem on offense, so how is keeping Olsen going to solve that? Maybe they should try to use a TE who's a better blocker and focus on protecting the QB? Maybe they can just unload this average TE with poor blocking skills in a walk year for a 3rd while they can still get something for him? Seems pretty reasonable to me...None of the outcry over this move makes any sense. Like I said, go start a thread about the Bears crummy drafting, and I promise I won't argue with that premise. This trade, though, is a good move.
 
The four TEs from the NFCN are not hard to figure out. Try the other three starters, maybe, and then look for another guy who has had a very similar career. Maybe we can call that guy a tie, at worst, although I think I would probably rather have him than Olsen.
Olsen has been just as productive as any of the TEs in the division
Again, is this the "We Hate Angelo's Drafts" thread, or the thread about Olsen being traded? No one said the Bears have a great track record drafting, so... why are we talking about this?
Because they used a 1st round pick on a player that they could have grabbed later in the draft. Because they now have a third round pick in the hands of a stooge that has proven that he cannot evaluate offensive talent.
And yes, indirectly, I am proving the point that Olsen was a wasted draft pick, although that wasn't the point. You say that as if that contradicts my point, but again, I am not saying that Angelo's drafts have been great. I'm not high on Olsen, of course I think it was a wasted pick! Olsen actually seemed like a good pick at the time, and pretty much all experts and fans lauded the pick. It didn't work out, though, and he was fairly disappointing. The Bears got good value for him by trading him now rather than let him go at the end of the season.
What type of baseline can you use to conclude that Olsen was a wasted first round pick? There was no consistency in coordinators or QBs let alone the poor offensive line and lack of a true number one WR.
Kellen Davis was not a 1st rounder, no, but you claim the Bears are terrible drafting in the first round, so... if he was a 1st rounder, wouldn't that mean nothing anyways? That's circular logic. I didn't say Davis was going to be a stud, I just said to not be surprised if he puts up the same numbers that Olsen did, which were not very impressive last season. He can do the same job in Martz's offense.
So why not move Davis? Are you telling me that Davis is better than Olsen is or just as good for the purpose of what Martz needs from a pass catching TE in his system? Again- all this proves is the Bears wasted a 1st round pick on a player that they really had no use for based on the player not fitting into their system 4 years later. A wasted number one pick. Also- Olsen did not have a chance to shine last year due to the fact that Martz hardly used him but when the ball did come his way he was productive and from what I recall he was very productive in the NFC Conf game good for a buck 13 and a TD.
Also, you ask why didn't the Bears trade him last season? Well, someone in this very thread already mentioned that it was widely speculated that they tried and may have had a deal in place that the Patriots backed out on. So...
We will never know. But do you honestly think that if Olsen played on the Patriots that he would be an average TE?
And yes, the OL is a mess, everyone acknowledges this. By citing that as "The Problem," you further undermine this outrage over trading Olsen. You're right, the OL is the primary problem on offense, so how is keeping Olsen going to solve that? Maybe they should try to use a TE who's a better blocker and focus on protecting the QB? Maybe they can just unload this average TE with poor blocking skills in a walk year for a 3rd while they can still get something for him? Seems pretty reasonable to me...
I can play the other side of the fence. How is trading Olsen going to resolve the most glaring problem on the OL? Didn't they carry 4 TEs on the roster last year? They have the worse OL in the NFL (and this goes back a few years) and they trade a former number one pick to get a third in order to make up the difference? They just cut Brandon Manumaleuna and this guy was a waste. I wonder who the genius was that wanted this bum. The Bears knew that they were getting Olsen for his receiving skills and not his blocking skills. If you think that building an OL starts with obtaining a TE first well...
None of the outcry over this move makes any sense. Like I said, go start a thread about the Bears crummy drafting, and I promise I won't argue with that premise. This trade, though, is a good move.
I disagree 100%. It makes perfect sense. I am tired of watching former number one picks by the Chicago Bears turn into cannon fodder. Olsen was very productive when given the chance and he was hardly in an idea situation to really be a top 5 NFL TE with the swiss cheese OL and clip board holding QBs they marched out there prior to making the Cutler move. Speaking of which, when Jay is getting his pants pulled down again on his way to another beating due to that turn style OL he can always look for his safety valve. Afterall, he will be so out of it he just might think that his blocking TE is really Greg Olsen...
 
I feel like I spent too much time trying to untwist logic pretzels this morning, and I just don't have much more of it in me. Also, taking your words out of my mouth is pretty tiring as well :( So, I'll keep it brief.

Olsen has actually been the least productive of the NFCN starters over the last couple years, and its even worse than the numbers suggest due to some of the others starting fewer games due to injuries. Again, I'm not here to defend draft picks. You say that the Bears could have gotten a TE later but then you question whether or not it was a wasted pick? More pretzel logic. No one said Davis was better than Olsen and no one would trade a 3rd (or anything) for him, so I have no idea why you mention the idea of trading Davis. I never said you start to build a solid OL by adding a TE, I only implied that removing a poor blocking, marginal TE and replacing him with a good blocker could help pass blocking, which you identified as the primary offensive problem - that's it. I also implied that getting a 3rd round pick in the process for a guy who would likely be unproductive in this offense and leave after this year is a positive move.

That's all. Olsen doesn't deserve this much discussion.

 
The four TEs from the NFCN are not hard to figure out. Try the other three starters, maybe, and then look for another guy who has had a very similar career. Maybe we can call that guy a tie, at worst, although I think I would probably rather have him than Olsen.
Olsen has been just as productive as any of the TEs in the division
:goodposting: Over the last two seasons:Shiancoe 103-1,096-13Olsen 101-1,016-13Pettigrew 101-1,068-6Finley 79-977-6However, I was surprised to see that Olsen only had 41-404-5 last year, which speaks volumes about how underutilized the TE is in a Mike Martz offense. I could see those being a TE's numbers if the WRs are stellar, but given how mediocre the Bears WRs are overall, it is sad how little Martz used Olsen last year (although he did have that big TD catch in the first playoff game last year).
 
I feel like I spent too much time trying to untwist logic pretzels this morning, and I just don't have much more of it in me. Also, taking your words out of my mouth is pretty tiring as well :( So, I'll keep it brief.Olsen has actually been the least productive of the NFCN starters over the last couple years, and its even worse than the numbers suggest due to some of the others starting fewer games due to injuries. Again, I'm not here to defend draft picks. You say that the Bears could have gotten a TE later but then you question whether or not it was a wasted pick? More pretzel logic. No one said Davis was better than Olsen and no one would trade a 3rd (or anything) for him, so I have no idea why you mention the idea of trading Davis. I never said you start to build a solid OL by adding a TE, I only implied that removing a poor blocking, marginal TE and replacing him with a good blocker could help pass blocking, which you identified as the primary offensive problem - that's it. I also implied that getting a 3rd round pick in the process for a guy who would likely be unproductive in this offense and leave after this year is a positive move. That's all. Olsen doesn't deserve this much discussion.
Well guy if you want to have a debate then try to use an angle to make me see things in a different light. Pretzel logic? Are you a Bears fan? Have you paid attention to the way they just muddle up drafts especially on the offensive side of the ball? Have you seen the poor decisions and then the double speak that comes from Lovie and the organization? Not too many NFL teams would take a productive number 1 pick and then cut bait on him like it was some liquidation move. If the guy was a bust- yeah I would agree with you but he isn't a bust. They drafted him to be a productive TE. Hey- they signed their FA blocking TE. Great- so why treat Olsen like a has been? And like I said- he was great when they needed a playoff win vs Seattle. He had great numbers when they involved him in the most important game of the season. The Bears are a run first team. This we know. But they brought him in to add weapons. Actually- I think he had more catches then Roy Williams last year. And as far as Martz- he will be gone soon regardless of the outcome of the season. He will want to be a HC or he will be fired for another dismal year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Marts doesn't use a receiving TE, so pointless for chi to keep him.

Look at how marts held Vernon Davis down, he doesn't know how to utilize a TE in his offense.

 
With the caliber of the offensive line the Bears are dealing with, they can't really afford to have a TE on the field who can't block. I agree with desro that a 3rd for Olsen is a great deal for the Bears.

 
For the ".. But, Olsen cost the Bears a 1st rounder.." crowd. Are you really suggesting Olsen should have brought a 1st rounder on the trade market?

 
With the caliber of the offensive line the Bears are dealing with, they can't really afford to have a TE on the field who can't block. I agree with desro that a 3rd for Olsen is a great deal for the Bears.
Then improve the offensive line. To please Martz the Bears went and got Chester Taylor and Manumaleuna last year. Both players were useless and Manumanaleuna has been cut already. The fact is Martz will be going away soon. His system doesn't work unless you have Pro Bowlers at the WR, RB, and QB spot like he did in St Louis. And frankly, any system would have probably worked with those guys. You acquire players for this system and you will be retooling again when Martz leaves, or is fired. His system puts your QB at risk because he takes so many hits. Cutler will be lucky to last the season. The reason no one else uses this system is because it is a stupid system. So when Martz leaves you will be back on the market looking for a playmaking TE. You can never have enough good football players. Olsen is a good football player and the Bears dumped him for basically nothing. It was not a smart move. I think Olsen will flourish in another system, and the Bears will regret doing this.
 
Bears dumped him for basically nothing.
:confused: You apparently have a much higher opinion of Olsen than I do.
I think he is going to play very well in Carolina. I think the Bears are better with him than without him. A third is probably fair compensation if you look at what he has done so far, but it doesn't help you this year at all, and I think he will be much more productive when he is used properly.
 
Bears dumped him for basically nothing.
:confused: You apparently have a much higher opinion of Olsen than I do.
I think he is going to play very well in Carolina. I think the Bears are better with him than without him. A third is probably fair compensation if you look at what he has done so far, but it doesn't help you this year at all, and I think he will be much more productive when he is used properly.
Show me a TE trade where a guy with his production was traded for more than an early 3rd..
 
I think what most people forget about TEs is the reason they produce less than WRs is that they are expected to block a heck of a lot more. A TE that puts up Greg Olsen numbers without being a good blocker is not worth that much in the NFL but could be worth something significant in fantasy.

 
Olsen wouldn't have returned with the Bears after this season. So he was a 1 year rental and the Bears got a 3rd rounder for him. The Steelers got a 5th rounder for Santonio Holmes.

 
Olsen wouldn't have returned with the Bears after this season. So he was a 1 year rental and the Bears got a 3rd rounder for him. The Steelers got a 5th rounder for Santonio Holmes.
Olsen might have returned if Martz was gone, which I think is a very real possibility. Holmes got in to legal trouble. The Steelers didn't trade him away for a fifth because he wasn't producing, they traded him because he was in trouble off the field. It isn't a fair comparison. The Steelers were just dumping Holmes. I'm not necessarily arguing that the Bears should have gotten more, I don't think they could of, but I think he will outperform his current perceived value. The Niners didn't trade away Vernon Davis when he wasn't producing, they got rid of Martz. I think that Martz will get Cutler killed and will be gone after this season. So the Bears will be chasing a pass catching TE, and they won't get one with that third round pick.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top