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Dion Lewis (1 Viewer)

menobrown said:
So if you want to take that info and argue White is just as good as Lewis in the passing game you have valid statistical argument to work with.
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I don't want to argue that - in fact I'm not really looking to make any argument at all, just expressing some concern. Lewis clearly looks like the more explosive/talented player to me.

As thrifty pointed out above, the fact that Edelman missed many of those games "forced" White to see more targets than perhaps he would have if all things were even.

 
I've seen articles trying to pair guys like Lynch or Forte with NE. I don't see anyway name guys with something left and wanting decent money would go to the Pats. They have mastered the no frills RB plan and have won while spending peanuts on RBs. Many other more integral players need extensions, so unless a name RB wants to come to NE and play for peanuts and a change for a ring, I don't see a big name coming to town. Same thing with Megatron. If he wanted to play for half what he's been making then he won't be in a Pats uni.

 
After watching this Denver playoff game it was clear they could not run the ball with White. I mean there is no option at all. White also came up short on some key wheel routes. They went back to White repeatedly because it was a mismatch with a LB on him and he just couldn't execute. No way does Lewis get covered by a LB in the same scenario. I have to think if Lewis was healthy there would have been a different outcome on those White passes and especially the runs which might have been enough to win the game. Especially on that two point conversion attempt ... no threat to run so Den could really focus on pass defense. I think the void left with Lewis out was large. It's not as close as you might think from the stats posted above. White is not the answer.

 
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.

 
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
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White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
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White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.
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Disagree. Both of those passes looked like ducks. I put that on Brady (and the Denver D of course).

 
Chaka said:
Alex P Keaton said:
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
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White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.
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Disagree. Both of those passes looked like ducks. I put that on Brady (and the Denver D of course).
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Both were tough catches and could of been thrown better, but Dion makes those plays.

 
Chaka said:
Alex P Keaton said:
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
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White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.
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Disagree. Both of those passes looked like ducks. I put that on Brady (and the Denver D of course).
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You can disagree and so can I. Brady didn't make exceptional throws, but he had a guy open and gave him chances to make a play.White was targeted 16 times and caught 5 balls. Some of that is on Brady, but I think most viewers would say that White didn't look sharp on those out routes.

 
Just went back through the game log. White was targeted 5 times on deep balls, which led to 4 incompletions and 1 INT. again, some of that is on Brady, but watching the game at the time, my reaction was (multiple times) "how did White not make that play on the ball?"

 
From what I remember, a lot of those targets were Brady throwing the ball in White's vicinity into the ground to avoid a sack. To suggest Lewis would have caught some of the closer throws is impossible to predict. Who knows how open he would have been, if he ran the same exact route, if he would have been bumped coming out of the backfield, etc. That's like saying NE would have won if they didn't miss the kicked PAT. We have now idea what would have happened.

 
Anarchy99 said:
From what I remember, a lot of those targets were Brady throwing the ball in White's vicinity into the ground to avoid a sack. To suggest Lewis would have caught some of the closer throws is impossible to predict. Who knows how open he would have been, if he ran the same exact route, if he would have been bumped coming out of the backfield, etc. That's like saying NE would have won if they didn't miss the kicked PAT. We have now idea what would have happened.
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Go watch the film on the 5 long balls.
 
Alex P Keaton said:
Chaka said:
Alex P Keaton said:
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
Click to expand...
White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Both of those passes looked like ducks. I put that on Brady (and the Denver D of course).
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You can disagree and so can I. Brady didn't make exceptional throws, but he had a guy open and gave him chances to make a play.White was targeted 16 times and caught 5 balls. Some of that is on Brady, but I think most viewers would say that White didn't look sharp on those out routes.
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No problem with you disagreeing but you shouldn't follow that up with suggesting what most viewers would see.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Anarchy99 said:
From what I remember, a lot of those targets were Brady throwing the ball in White's vicinity into the ground to avoid a sack. To suggest Lewis would have caught some of the closer throws is impossible to predict. Who knows how open he would have been, if he ran the same exact route, if he would have been bumped coming out of the backfield, etc. That's like saying NE would have won if they didn't miss the kicked PAT. We have now idea what would have happened.
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Go watch the film on the 5 long balls.
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I agree completely. White looked like he mistimed his dives on a couple of those long balls. There was bumping, sure, but you watch those two late ones that were nearly back to back and he should have caught them in my opinion. They were damn near perfect throws from Brady in my opinion. No one could have caught those couple of balls except white but he mistimed his dives. The one throw the ball went right through his arms before his hands were even close to the ball. Thus, mistimed. Just my opinion. Lewis catching them is another argument altogether but white 'could' have caught them if he timed them correctly.

 
Chaka said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Chaka said:
Alex P Keaton said:
davearm said:
I can recall two wheel routes thrown to White on Sunday. He got open on both of them. One was underthrown, and one was overthrown.

Now if you want to argue Lewis would have caught those passes, have at it. But White getting open vs. LB coverage wasn't a problem, not on those plays anyway.
Click to expand...
White was open - but he struggled to get micro-separation from the LB at the right moment. Thus he appeared "overthrown" or "underthrown" but really he was hung up by the LB. He looked open each time; I was shocked he didn't catch those passes.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Both of those passes looked like ducks. I put that on Brady (and the Denver D of course).
Click to expand...
You can disagree and so can I. Brady didn't make exceptional throws, but he had a guy open and gave him chances to make a play.White was targeted 16 times and caught 5 balls. Some of that is on Brady, but I think most viewers would say that White didn't look sharp on those out routes.
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No problem with you disagreeing but you shouldn't follow that up with suggesting what most viewers would see.
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:shrug: The announcers commented on it during the game. I get your point - no idea what every single viewer would see.

 
gpthatsme said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Anarchy99 said:
From what I remember, a lot of those targets were Brady throwing the ball in White's vicinity into the ground to avoid a sack. To suggest Lewis would have caught some of the closer throws is impossible to predict. Who knows how open he would have been, if he ran the same exact route, if he would have been bumped coming out of the backfield, etc. That's like saying NE would have won if they didn't miss the kicked PAT. We have now idea what would have happened.
Click to expand...
Go watch the film on the 5 long balls.
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I agree completely. White looked like he mistimed his dives on a couple of those long balls. There was bumping, sure, but you watch those two late ones that were nearly back to back and he should have caught them in my opinion. They were damn near perfect throws from Brady in my opinion. No one could have caught those couple of balls except white but he mistimed his dives. The one throw the ball went right through his arms before his hands were even close to the ball. Thus, mistimed. Just my opinion. Lewis catching them is another argument altogether but white 'could' have caught them if he timed them correctly.
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Put me in camp as saying I think a solid chance Lewis comes down with one or both of those wheel routes. But for sure we'll never know, and I remember what I think was the game Lewis tore his ACL he ran a similar pattern and was wide open for long TD and made a brutal drop.

I can't even put my finger on it but something just looked odd with White, like he was stuck in mud or something. Was it timing or just a lack of burst? I think both passes were far from perfect but as I watched them unfold I thought White would go get the ball but he just did not have it in him.

 
menobrown said:
gpthatsme said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Anarchy99 said:
From what I remember, a lot of those targets were Brady throwing the ball in White's vicinity into the ground to avoid a sack. To suggest Lewis would have caught some of the closer throws is impossible to predict. Who knows how open he would have been, if he ran the same exact route, if he would have been bumped coming out of the backfield, etc. That's like saying NE would have won if they didn't miss the kicked PAT. We have now idea what would have happened.
Click to expand...
Go watch the film on the 5 long balls.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. White looked like he mistimed his dives on a couple of those long balls. There was bumping, sure, but you watch those two late ones that were nearly back to back and he should have caught them in my opinion. They were damn near perfect throws from Brady in my opinion. No one could have caught those couple of balls except white but he mistimed his dives. The one throw the ball went right through his arms before his hands were even close to the ball. Thus, mistimed. Just my opinion. Lewis catching them is another argument altogether but white 'could' have caught them if he timed them correctly.
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Put me in camp as saying I think a solid chance Lewis comes down with one or both of those wheel routes. But for sure we'll never know, and I remember what I think was the game Lewis tore his ACL he ran a similar pattern and was wide open for long TD and made a brutal drop.

I can't even put my finger on it but something just looked odd with White, like he was stuck in mud or something. Was it timing or just a lack of burst? I think both passes were far from perfect but as I watched them unfold I thought White would go get the ball but he just did not have it in him.
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Very well said. It was like White didn't have the acceleration/explosiveness to get to the ball.

Agree that there is no guarantee Lewis catches any of those passes.

 
I think he really was the one injury that the pats couldn't live with last year. He seemed to make everything work so well.

Whatever they have decided in terms of Brady sitting the first four games, if he sits then I don't judge New England at all until he returns. I think they had a nice groove going on with Lewis and it probably won't be the same until everyone is back.

 
Excerpt from Bloom's recent 10 Things We Learned article:

Bill Belichick might have found a back he can rely on - Belichick took us for one last long walk down a short pier in 2014 when Jonas Gray disappeared after putting up the best fantasy game by any running back that year. While we can forgive the fantasy community for not wanting to trust Lucy to hold that football one more time while we try to kick it, they were slow to see that Dion Lewis was different. He was in on a diverse set of plays that was larger than Shane Vereen’s role, he was more elusive and productive than Vereen, Kevin Faulk, or any other “passing down back” in the Brady/Belichick era, and the team signed him to an extension during the season. Then he went down with a torn ACL in October. The postscript to this story is that Belichick might have found two running backs he wants to stick with, as LeGarrette Blount was re-signed again, and the team did not make any significant running back moves in the draft or free agency.

Plan for 2016: Lewis is lasting til the fourth round of PPR drafts. He’s only 25 and was playing at a very high level. The Patriots didn’t add anyone that would indicate a huge worry about Lewis’s recovery. He’s a risky RB1 in PPR, but one you can get after you take your “core” players. Lewis will be a target of mine as long as his risk is more prominent in his draft stock than his production.

Bio/CV/background

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dion_Lewis

"He rushed for more than 1,799 yards during the 2009 season and broke Craig "Ironhead" Heyward's record at Pittsburgh for rushes in a single game with 47 against University of Cincinnati in the Big East Championship game, totaling 194 rushing yards, three touchdowns, as well as five catches for 34 yards."

"Lewis set the Big East freshman rushing record previously held by Tony Dorsett.[14] The lightly recruited running back was third nationally in rushing (1,799 yards, 5.5 avg) and broke LeSean Mccoy's record for most points by a Pitt Freshman on December 5, 2009 for the Big East championship against the Cincinnati Bearcats.[11] He broke Dorsett's record for most rushing yards by a Pitt freshman during the 2009 Meineke Car Care Bowl, after which he was named the game's MVP."

* Prep, Pitt and NE highlights (in order)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkRwbSMJHus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HxvSzpKl48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdZJk1xtU00

 
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Shutout said:
I think he really was the one injury that the pats couldn't live with last year. He seemed to make everything work so well.

Whatever they have decided in terms of Brady sitting the first four games, if he sits then I don't judge New England at all until he returns. I think they had a nice groove going on with Lewis and it probably won't be the same until everyone is back.
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Most offenses work best when the starters are healthy. 

 
Anyone trying to make the argument that white is a plug and play replacement for Lewis either didn't watch football, it is being deliberately obtuse and playing message board contrarian. It's a silly argument to even make. 

The real debate here is how does Lewis bounce back from the injury? 

In one $league I'll be defending a title in I am seriously considering him as my sole keeper. I'm buying.

 
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[icon] said:
Anyone trying to make the argument that white is a plug and play replacement for Lewis either didn't watch football, it is being deliberately obtuse and playing message board contrarian. It's a silly argument to even make. 

The real debate here is how does Lewis bounce back from the injury? 

In one $league I'll be defending a title in I am seriously considering him as my sole keeper. I'm buying.
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White is pretty average...not a real big fan...Lewis is electric...he takes the Pats offense to another level...the question (and it's a big one) is can he stay healthy...right now the jury is still out in a big way...the guy that many in the media seem to be liking is the Foster kid out of Arizona State...BB called him directly when recruiting him as an UDFA...would love to see him jump over White in the rotation...

 
Boston said:
White is pretty average...not a real big fan...Lewis is electric...he takes the Pats offense to another level...the question (and it's a big one) is can he stay healthy...right now the jury is still out in a big way...the guy that many in the media seem to be liking is the Foster kid out of Arizona State...BB called him directly when recruiting him as an UDFA...would love to see him jump over White in the rotation...
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I think the jury has returned with the verdict that he can't stay healthy because he never has.  I love the guy, he helped carry me to a championship, but he has been bitten by the injury bug for his entire NFL career.  I am sure someone has posted his college injury history in here but I don't remember if it was more of the same or if he is just snakebit in the NFL.

 
He's on the PUP, and hasn't even been seen at TC, according to reports.  Speculation today that he could start the season on the PUP, which was later refuted.

IF he is 100%, and NE is just being cautious with him, he could be a great value pick.

Any NE homers have any insight: is his absence something to worry about, or just a precaution?  They have Blount, James White, Bolden, & D Brown on the roster.  If Lewis does get regular season PUP, or isn't 100%, are any of them going to come close to his production?

 
Just went 4.12 in my FFPC league...a bit too high IMO...more of a 6th round guy for me...just not sure I can trust him to stay on the field.

 
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Cant trust any NE rbs.  Play them if you must.  Don't choose to draft them unless it's great value.  4th round?  No thanks

 
4th round still?  Yeah, that seems high.  Must still be some blind optimism.  During the off-season, I noted how Gurley had injured his knee around the same time a year earlier, & wasn't back until week 3 & someone said something like "well medical technology and rehab techniques have advanced since then."  If that same kind of mentality is still prevalent, perhaps he won't be able to be drafted at a value.

 
I made two trades this offseason which basically netted me TJ Yeldon for Dion Lewis in a dynasty.  I was kind of regretting it all offseason but this is kind of the murky scenario I wanted to avoid.  Clear as mud, although I love his talent.  I might actually try to get him back at a discount later on. 

No way I take Donald Brown.  Why would you want Dammit Donald on your team?

 
I doubt he is in September.  They like, you know, good players.  Although I do give him credit for sticking as long as he has.  

 
matuski said:
Nobody looks similar to Lewis imo, but anyone can produce in that offense with opportunity.
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That's the problem.  Very little confidence as to who it is every week due to a variety of factors.  Let someone else deal with this headache.  It's not worth it 

 
Sabertooth said:
I made two trades this offseason which basically netted me TJ Yeldon for Dion Lewis in a dynasty.  I was kind of regretting it all offseason but this is kind of the murky scenario I wanted to avoid.  Clear as mud, although I love his talent.  I might actually try to get him back at a discount later on. 

No way I take Donald Brown.  Why would you want Dammit Donald on your team?
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Brown might be better than White. He has to beat out White. If he beats out White he'll be a decent 0rb play for the first few weeks. Long term value is minimal though of course. 

Getting Lewis for cheap in late Sept seems like a good plan.

 
Sabertooth said:
I made two trades this offseason which basically netted me TJ Yeldon for Dion Lewis in a dynasty.  I was kind of regretting it all offseason but this is kind of the murky scenario I wanted to avoid.  Clear as mud, although I love his talent.  I might actually try to get him back at a discount later on. 

No way I take Donald Brown.  Why would you want Dammit Donald on your team?
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Brown isn't spectacular but he's solid in pass pro and doesn't fumble. There's been rumblings in Pats camp that Blount may even be on the roster bobble. Throw a dart in the NE backfield, lol. I'm probably steering clear of all NE RB as I am BAL. I don't want to tie up roster spots with guys who may not even contribute. 

 
Bayhawks said:
Does he look similar to Lewis?  Better than White?
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Here's a summary of what I have seen so far. Lewis could most likely play if there were a game and is probably being he'd out as a precaution. It has been speculated that NE won't use Lewis as much as they did last year and he won't be a heavy carry back.

Blount hasn't been practicing and is somewhat in the doghouse  not sure the team loves his attitude, conditioning, or the fact he is still unable to get on the field. But he is basically the big back up the middle and short yardage guy with little utility as a receiver.

With those two out, it makes it harder to evaluate the renaming backs.

I read that White has been practicing more with the receivers than the backs but who knows what that means.

Bolden is still around and fills the fill-in role to all the RBs but is mostly a special teamer.

Brown to me looks like a camp body. His career seems pretty unremarkable to date.

Foster has earned praised as the most versatile back on the roster and also the fastest. I didn't follow him in college, so I have no idea about his pass protection, blitz pick up, ability to hold on to the ball, route running, or hands. But I thought I read he was sneaky fast and hard to tackle and usually got an extra yard or two when going down.

So he's not really like Lewis. Lewis is shifty and hard to tackle in space. But he clearly is fragile and not a pile mover. Lewis is also a match up nightmare if on the right defenders.

I think things could come down to Blount OR Brown and White OR Foster. However, a lot will depends how many WR they keep, do they want a FB, do they want to carry an extra lineman, etc.

And buyer beware that they might explore other backs that get cut from other teams.

 
Dion Lewis (ACL, active/PUP) has yet to practice in training camp.

Even for the notoriously secretive Patriots, this is an odd situation. Lewis was able to participate and reportedly looked good at minicamps in June, and there have not been any reports of a setback. Still, he has not even been seen on the practice field during camp, and there have been murmurs of him opening the season on the reserve/PUP list, which would cost him the first six games. That still appears unlikely, but the concern grows with every missed practice. Lewis still has the upside to be drafted as a fringe RB2, but he is a risky pick.
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This is concerning (from a fantasy football perspective).
 
I was already concerned about him being my #2 in a redraft. He is now slipping to middle of the pack #3 with big upside in my book.

 
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