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How do you explain Collins, Jones, Mankins, Moss, Seymour, etc?
People were saying the same things last year before his breakout. We've heard all the BB rhetoric and how you can't trust a NE RB. Who was right last year? Ok, now it's this year. I'm willing to admit there is risk that Dion Lewis doesn't pan out like he did last year, but the cost of a late round pick, or a FA pickup is worth the risk. And it doesn't take a great imagination to see he has a good shot to do it again.
well yes. He was picked up in every league I was in about 6 weeks ago. Some drafted him & still have him.
I could see him being a FA pickup lottery back in leagues where he was dropped, but he wasn't a late round pick,his ADP was pretty high.
Before or after he had the setback? I drafted him after the setback and no way he was going in the 5th or 6th round, maybe before.
I agree those costs you mention are well worth the risk; I have a hard time believing there are many serious leagues where that is the cost of acquiring him.
Before, but it wasn't an early draft....aug 20th-Ish?mnmplayer said:
Then why would Belichek be "loyal" to White? Your logic can be used against you. Anyone who can see, can tell the difference in talent and ability. I've watched many NE games and it's obvious: White is serviceable; Lewis is a difference maker.Bayhawks said:
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but hasn't Blount had some pretty HUGE games in the playoffs the last couple years?
Feast or famine. 314 yards rushing and 7 TD in two games. 47 yards rushing on 22 carries and 0 TD in three other games
"Let's save our best player(s) until we really need them" is something I seem to hear a lot around here, but not once can I recall seeing an actual NFL coach that didn't already have the #1 seed locked up behave that way.
Playing White, b/c he's playing well, isn't loyalty. And BB has said White is playing well. If White fumbles, falters, is late for a meeting, etc-that changes things. But BB continuing to use White, b/c he is playing well, is based off production, not loyalty; so no, that isn't "using my argument against me," it's mis-construing the term loyalty.
None of those situations have anything to do with Lewis v. White - they were all contract related moves where they weren't going to be able to sign the guy during the offseason so they traded him for something instead of losing him for nothing. Except for Moss, who actually was playing terrible that season to the point he played for two other teams and was released by both until actually retiring because no one wanted him.Bayhawks said:
No one thinks the job will just get handed to Lewis - everyone has stated that he is the better player and will take the job back once he's healthy. Belichick's actions last year show that he thinks Lewis is the better option. White has filled in admirably this season and I'm sure Belichick does believe he's done well, but if you've watched the games while he's been productive, he's been productive due to the system - he has shown no dynamic playmaking skills - he has caught the ball in stride and waltzed into the endzone because Brady has taken what the defense is giving him. White isn't terrible, but he does nothing better than Lewis.
If I ever head to West, I'm looking you up dude. Me and my buddies were just making this same D&D analogy this week.Not sure he's even thinking either of those thing.
Not singling you out here, as many in this topic are guilty of this, but the difference between fantasy owners vs coaching decisions seems to be that fantasy owners see players as pieces on a chess board; or maybe more accurately like player/characters in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.
It objectifies the player and dehumanizes the decision making process by breaking the players down to their most basic statistical contributions.
"Well of course Lewis will come in and take all the carries and receptions from White, making White obsolete! Lewis has a +3 Jock Strap of Anti-Itch and +4 Cleats of Juking! Plus he's got 17 DEX and 14 CON compared to White's 12 DEX and 16 CON! Sure White's constitution is worth something, but It's worth switching to Lewis for the dexterity saving throws against tackling alone! Every idiot can see that!" says the Dungeons and Drag-er, fantasy football player.
By comparison, coaches see a human being on a playing field and in practice day in & day out.
Coaches will often reward players for contributing and make returning players earn their roles or prove their ability again after a long layoff. It's not as simple as looking at a stat sheet (or character sheet) and swapping in one for the other.
IMO you're significantly short-changing White's contributions thus far in the quote above - he's clearly performed well in Lewis' absence. In my opinion, BB is highly likely to keep him involved, especially if Gronk misses time. And I'm pretty sure BB doesn't care what Lewis did last year or how many snaps he played or what his +4 Cleats of Juking do for him on paper. BB coaches human beings who have earned trust and respect through hard work.
that in part is what makes coaching decisions incredibly difficult - what seems cut and dry when looking at what Lewis did last year, while healthy, as a whole, doesn't necessarily lend insight to what BB will do with Lewis, coming back from a long layoff after a significant injury on the current Patriots roster. Even if 100% heathy, team is still relevant. Chemistry is still relevant. The Pats lost a close one against Seattle. The Seattle defense came to play and played well, especially in the final series.
Could they have used Lewis in that game? Of course they could have - he's yet another weapon. Would using Lewis have guaranteed a different outcome? Hard to say but I seriously doubt it.
Even with his +3 Jock Strap of Anti-Itch.
just making an observation about what I see as a recurring theme in fantasy sports. It's never black and white in sports. There are all kinds of gray area factors that go into coaching decisions, and they're often complicated. What seems like a no-brainer to a fantasy owner might be the most difficult decision a coach has to make all year; especially if it means demoting a hard worker who's been a solid contributor in a winning season. Some coaches won't do that.
No idea what will happen with Lewis, but some folks here are looking at this situation far too mathematically and totally losing sight of the human element IMO.
They've also lost key games trying to pound this square peg (Blount) into a round hole (stout run D).
No one? This post was made recently:
Putting that aside, "everyone has stated that he is the better player and will take the job back once he's healthy" ignores the fact that BB has said that it would take A LOT for someone to take White's job. I've never said that a healthy Lewis won't have a role, but to expect him to assume the same role he had during his 7-game hot stretch is ignoring the fact that White wasn't involved during Lewis' 7-game hot stretch and that BB has said White isn't going away. So, if Lewis gets a reduced role, his value is not as high.NE_REVIVAL said:
Late August draft I got Lewis with my last round pick (18th). I cut him and picked him up 2 other times this year. He's currently on my roster. Before you think this is a 8 team league with my stuffed animals, there are some seriously good players in this league...at least 8 I'd say could hang strong in your typical FBG league.Hot Sauce Guy said:
Assuming I had depth at WR, I'd trade a WR2 for him.
Hmmmm...why do you think White wasn't involved during that "7-game hot stretch"?
No, it really doesn't. You contend that "everyone" believes Lewis will earn the job with his better play. That quote doesn't talk about production at all, it just says as soon as Lewis is healthy (which he already is), White will have no value. No mention of out-playing Lewis, producing more, or anything like that. Just "Lewis will be given the job as soon as he's healthy." Which is what I said-Lewis owners think he will be given back the same role as he had during his 7-game hot stretch; ignoring the fact that White wasn't a factor during that stretch, BB has said it would be hard for anyone to take White's job, and BB's actions (making Lewis inactive) support his words.
Hmmmm-because he hadn't demonstrated that he deserved to be involved. He has now though, and this is coming from BB, not me.
I think you may be on to something here. A superstar-less team running a system.
First beer's on me, and I know all the best taquerias in CA.
I don't think it has anything with him not being enamored with talent ... I just think he is more enamored with value, and prioritizes that above all. Notice he never drove out Brady, as he is the most valuable commodity in the game at that position for more than a decade now, hence irreplaceable and even landing all 7 draft picks from an opposing team wouldn't be as valuable as owning Brady. The same goes for Gronk. The rest he sought high return value for and probably believes he can replace or get better value in exchange for what he received. Nobody can argue that he hasn't had a lengthy success, and during an era where parity in the league was prioritized, which is saying a lot more about team management than it does about the dynasties of yesterday, before the cap. The key to competitive advantage is trading current perceived value for future value, because in the salary cap era, you can only keep so much blue chip stock on the team. I don't think anyone here will argue that he kept the two most important difference makers in Bready and Gronk, so what he is doing just makes sense in this era of encouraged parity. The rest of the supporting cast are expendable, not because he doesn't think they are talented, but because he can only keep so much talent under a salaried contract. Also I don't think BB is spiteful to players or coaches or he wouldn't have taken his OC back like he did. That is ridiculous as its not smart to be spiteful in this league; its smart to be opportunistic when value presents itself and he is a master of that.
Gronk is still around. But, he's a irreplaceable (by a cheaper replacement player) so he sticks around. Same with Brady, irreplaceable to the system. There's a difference between players who have success in the system, and players who make a difference.
I take that as Lewis will get some limited plays this week, and his performance is going to dictate how quickly those touches go up.
Well I'm getting pretty desperate with choices of Ingram, Bernard, and Martin. Leaning towards Martin but Lewis has the best matchup in FFB. It only takes a couple big plays to outscore the fodder that is my current RB crew.
Oh, I'm with you. I drafted Dion to ride my IR slot ALL SEASON. I'll be making a similar start/sit call, probably late saturday night as I weep into my hands.
I would do this in a heartbeat.
I haven't read every reply/post but ftr. What I meant by my original post was imho Lewis is much better than White and if Lewis is healthy White will rarely if ever see the field. I don't think Lewis will have anything handed to him, i think he is a better player; more of a difference maker. But like u said, time will tell.
Translation: Lewis is healthy enough to start playing football, but they will be working him into the rotation to (1) get him in "football" shape and (2) acclimate him to their offensive schemes that have changed since the beginning of the season.
