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Homeland (1 Viewer)
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
I'll have to watch it again, but I think he was digging around operation files in the yellow time period from Carrie's timeline and found it. He pieced together that it was a drone strike from the heavy redactions and the case/file number.I did find it a little hokey (along with the timely phone call from daughter, though that redeemed itself with the conversation) that Carrie "woke up" from the anesthesia long enough to say "Don't let me forget Brody knew Issa". From my experience with anesthesia, by the time you reach the 5th number/letter you're saying out loud, you've woken up from a 4 hour coma. Someone else said above that this episode did the most stretching, but in the end I think it worked out fine. The stretches weren't enough to counteract the story it posited and it set things towards season 2 without a gigantic "WTF happened?!" cliffhanger.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Showrunner Alex Gansa discusses the 'Homeland' finale:
HitFix: First off, have you been following the responses to the finale last night and this morning?
Alex Gansa: You know, I have a little bit. It's funny. There was a delayed response last night. I'm in New York, so I'm kinda on different time, but I have been following the response, which has been... Well, you tell me. You probably know more than I do. I tend to look at the positives of it all. People seem to like it.
HitFix: The answer I'd say is that it's polarizing. There are people who loved it and, invariably this is going to happen, there were people who... less so. Do you feel like audiences are more invested in closure and conclusion than they were maybe even a year or two ago?
Alex Gansa: I think that the opportunity for people to discuss these things in a public forum might lead to that sort of desire to take opposing opinions, or at least give into the impulse of an initial response rather than the time to think through your feelings about something. But I do think that all the discussion over the last couple of years about season finales and actually series finales -- what they mean and how they're realized up on-screen -- has made people more sophisticated about them, absolutely.
HitFix: What does that inevitable scrutiny do to you guys as the people attempting to deliver these finales and still keep the integrity of the story, while also worrying at least somewhat about how people will respond to it?
Alex Gansa: I think it probably varies from show to show how concerned people are. It depends a lot upon how the show is being received critically up to that point. If you're in trouble and people are tuning out, if people aren't watching the show anymore, then there's a tremendous amount of attention brought to bear about how to course correct, either midway through the season or towards the end of the season as a way of bringing as many people back next year as you can. But we were in the very enviable position of people liking the show and we just plowed forward with our plans. We were headed in this direction for a long time and luckily we're not forced to make a change.
HitFix: When did you know how you were ending the first season?
Alex Gansa: We always knew that Brody was going to carry out some sort of an attack against the Vice President and the people responsible for the drone strike. That was sorta in stone from quite early on. How he was going to go about doing that was a different matter. We tossed around a bunch of different ideas and we settled on the suicide vest, I would say maybe three-quarters of the way into the season as we were mapping out the finale. It seemed like the most personal and the most significant way for him to go about righting what he considered to be a wrong.
HitFix: OK. And when did you determine that he would be unable to complete the attack?
Alex Gansa: We were always looking for a way for Brody to survive the season, because we ultimately felt like the story between Brody and Carrie has not been told. The first part of that story has been told, but we knew that there was more grist for that sort of mill, dramatically. We wanted to find a way for Brody to come out of this season alive. It presented a lot of problems. If an attack actually had been carried out, it would have been very difficult for the intelligence community and Carrie to ever not realize that he'd been behind the attacks, so the suicide vest gave us a great opportunity to play all of the emotion of what the attack would mean for Brody, personally, but it also had the great advantage and benefit of allowing him to leave that area, to leave the attack without ever being suspected by anybody, so that kinda gave us the best of both worlds. We felt like it was effective both on an emotion and on a dramatic level.
HitFix: One thing that people may be feeling discomfort with is the unease that comes from a conclusion in which our hero faces consequences, but the antagonist maybe doesn't. How did you feel about making people uncomfortable with the state of consequences at the end of the first season?
Alex Gansa: It's interesting. I've spoken to a lot of women who have been watching this series and there is this profound sense that Carrie, even though she's right, doesn't know she's right. That has been the cause of a lot of frustration, but I think also of a lot of... It's helped the narrative engine of the story. That is, you're waiting for her to find out that she's right and the fact that she never does, through the course of the first season, I imagine might be a source of some frustration for some people. But what we enjoyed about it is that it's often the case, that your victories sometimes go completely unnoticed to even yourself as you move through the world. We felt like the ending of the finale was important, because it was both a personal and professional decision that she was making. The fact that it may or may not have erased her short-term memory, it just let us reset for next season and it felt like a smart narrative move.
HitFix: With a lot of recent drama finales, fans and also critics have been talking about the idea of showrunners having "the guts" to kill off characters. It seems to me like "guts" can mean other things beyond just killing off characters. What, to you, does it mean to "have guts" when it comes to being ruthless with your characters?
Alex Gansa: I think the gutsiest thing you can do is to make sure that every action that happens in a finale, or over the course of a season, is based in character and in the true way that the character would behave. I have to say, if we were gutsy about anything this season, it was being very rigorous about that. We didn't want anybody to do anything that felt out of character and sometimes that leads to a finale or to a season that may be less narratively interesting, but, again, is characterologically true and I think that those are the most rewarding pieces of television that you can see. The really good shows are always, always very true to their characters and I think that there are some shows that try too hard and that is sorta misinterpreted as guts, but ultimately those, to me, are the most unsatisfying ones. The most satisfying series are always the ones where everybody behaves, you know, when you look back on it and you go, "Well of course they would behave that way. That's exactly what they would do." And that's really, really what we tried to do all through the season. If you look at the finale, there are a couple things that we are really, really proud of in the finale and one is Dana's character and how we built that relationship with her dad so that it makes sense that she's the one who would call her father and if anyone called him, she would be the one that he would listen to. That was the first thing. And then Carrie, just her journey of her mental illness and where she would get to at the end of the season. We always knew she was going to be involved in some fairly serious psychiatric situation.
HitFix: Since you mentioned Dana... There's a long tradition on genre shows of teenage characters who fans really just wanna throttle and you guys avoided that well with her. This was a character who I don't think anybody hated or wanted to get rid of. () What's the secret to crafting a character who viewers actually like in that age range?
Alex Gansa: It comes down to one aspect and that's just the casting of the role. The young woman who plays Dana, Morgan Saylor, she was able to come in and inhabit a character who could have been a cliche, the eye-rolling teenage, smarter-than-everybody-else role, which just has become such a trope of movies and television. And Morgan came in and she just has an uncanny ability to inhabit scenes and to make dialogue her own in a way that doesn't feel old or tired or the same old thing. We really just marveled at her from the beginning. So I think "casting" is the answer to your question. There was another role... Look, I don't mean to compare "Homeland" to "The Descendants," the young woman who plays George Clooney's daughter in "The Descendants" [shailene Woodley] had the same situation, had to walk that tightrope and she did it extremely well. She was fantastic. She's like one of the only other actresses where I thought, "You know? She could have played Dana. She's good." So I think Morgan just brought her own ways to the role that really made it come alive.
HitFix: Talking about the state of affairs as we left things... When it comes to the situation Carrie is in at the end with the shock treatments and her general psychological state, how do you follow through with the consequences of that, while also leaving room to reset the action and premise for a second season?
Alex Gansa: We're really just at the beginning of talking about Season Two. There are a number of things that we can do with Carrie. I think we have to honor the fact that the ECT therapy does have some side effects -- not just memory loss, but there are some personality things that can be affected. It's a therapy treatment of last result. It does have profoundly positive effects often times on people with bipolar illness, bipolar disease, and we're going to try to be as true as we possibly can to what that choice means and meant for Carrie. I don't know, but I imagine you're going to see a slightly different Carrie Mathison next season as a result of what she's endured and what she's been through and what this therapy, what the side effects may or may not be.
HitFix: But you're going to be very aware of the position you put her in in terms of the chances of her returning to work at the CIA?
Alex Gansa: Of course. She has significantly damaged her career and unless there is some kind of extraordinary circumstance to get her back into the fold, nobody would believe that. I don't believe we're going to pick up next season with with Carrie Mathison reporting for duty at the CIA. That would be completely implausible.
HitFix: And then with Brody, he has the whole "Well, I didn't kill the VP, but now I can enact tangible change from within" conversation with Nazir and Abu Nazir seems to accept it. How much should viewers think Brody believes what he's saying there and how much should viewers believe that Nazir believes or accepts what Brody says?
Alex Gansa: Haven't those questions been the very questions that have been swirling around Brody from the very beginning? His character has always been someone on whom the audience projects their own feelings. That was very much by design. At the beginning, you were asking the question, "Well was he or wasn't he turned in captivity?" and you were looking for clues in his behavior with his family and with Carrie and in his daily life. You were looking for clues to determine whether or not he had been turned. Then when we revealed that actually he had been turned, in one way or another, then you began to look for clues about whether or not he would go through with what he had agreed to do and we built that through into the finale.
Now, I think we're in a similar position. He has made a pitch to Nazir to excuse his behavior in the bunker, because Nazir may or may not believe whether the vest malfunctioned or not. He has pitched to Nazir a sorta Plan B and I think your question is extremely well taken, which is: Well, is he serious? Is this something that he's genuinely going to try to do? And does Nazir believe him? And more importantly, does Nazir have any leverage over Brody to force him to do something he may not be willing or sanguine about doing? So those are all the questions that are going to be swirling around next season and I think in a positive way, in a way that's gonna make it feel as dramatic and as interesting as it was this season, albeit on a different stage.
HitFix: So if viewers are felt that Nazir agreed too quickly to the deal, they shouldn't think it's that simple?
Alex Gansa: No, I don't think they should be worried it's that simple. I think Nazir's got a lot of leverage. For one thing, not that I know this for a fact, but I imagine that Nazir or one of Nazir's lieutenants has a copy of that suicide tape that Brody made.
HitFix: That was going to be my next question. What's up with the tape?
Alex Gansa: The tape is out there and the tape can, at some point, certainly come to haunt Brody, especially if he's had second thoughts about what he's agreed to do.
HitFix: But we don't know who has it at this moment?
Alex Gansa: We don't.
HitFix: Also on the subject of lingering post-finale questions... There was a lot of "mole" talk this season, but no resolution. Were Saul's suspicions wrong?
Alex Gansa: Two things I'd say about that: One is that we were very conscious of... And this was before the response to the whole "mole" issue. People started suspecting Saul and Estes and "Oh my God, could it be Carrie, herself? Is she a schizophrenic?" All of this stuff. There's a lot of speculation about the mole. And as you know, revealing moles was a huge trope on "24" and Howard and I both worked on "24" -- I only worked on "24" for the last two seasons, but Howard worked on "24" from the beginning -- and we were very conscious from the beginning of the series, even when it was just an idea in our heads, that we were not going to follow in "24's" footsteps. Carrie Mathison never pulls a gun all season long. And the idea of "revealing the mole" as being one of this series, one of the "Homeland" series tropes was something we avoided. The other thing is that oftentimes, you never know who the mole is. Believe me, there are plenty of moles in the intelligence community, not just in the United States, but in all intelligence agencies, who have never been revealed and who are still in place. That struck us as a much more interesting and realistic portrayal of that idea.
HitFix: As a last question, looking out to next season, one of the interesting things about the "Homeland" writing staff was the number of established showrunners you recruited for the team. I'm curious about how closely you're going to be able to replicate that next season since I assume many of those writers and producers are going to go do their own shows next year...
Alex Gansa: I don't know the answer to that yet. People are being offered a bunch of things. Almost everybody on the staff wrote a pilot this year, so you very well may be right. However, I'm hoping to get at least four of those people back. Also, Howard was much more of a peripheral part of the series this year. He's been running "Awake," the NBC show, so we're hoping to get him fulltime next year as well, which would be fantastic. I'm quietly confident that we're going to have 80 percent of the staff back and if we do hire somebody else, it'll be somebody at a high level.
bonesman
Footballguy
Pretty weak finale to me... ep 1 of season 2 will have to be pretty catchy to get me back on board with this show.
What bothered me that noone is talking about: Didn't Nazir tell him to say some "holy words" or something before he triggered the vest? He flashed back to it while putting it on, I think. I've seen the same thing in other films/shows before too.
The suicide bomber normally screams out "ALLAH U AKBAR!!!" before setting himself off.
That would've been pretty awkward if he did that and then it didn't go off. "JK everyone! Gotcha!" 
What bothered me that noone is talking about: Didn't Nazir tell him to say some "holy words" or something before he triggered the vest? He flashed back to it while putting it on, I think. I've seen the same thing in other films/shows before too.
The suicide bomber normally screams out "ALLAH U AKBAR!!!" before setting himself off.
That would've been pretty
awkward if he did that and then it didn't go off. "JK everyone! Gotcha!" 
whoknew
Footballguy
I was pretty disappointed with the finale. It seems like they took the easy way out.
I think this should have been a mini-series and not a series. If it had ended with Claire Danes getting the shock therapy after Brody carried out his plan - even after lying to his daughter - that would have been a brilliant mini-series.
The way they did it, though - it just wasn't on par with the rest of the series. Too many holes and too many conveniences. Oh well.
I think this should have been a mini-series and not a series. If it had ended with Claire Danes getting the shock therapy after Brody carried out his plan - even after lying to his daughter - that would have been a brilliant mini-series.
The way they did it, though - it just wasn't on par with the rest of the series. Too many holes and too many conveniences. Oh well.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Good show, but I was terribly disappointed with the finale.
Why did Walker miss the VP on purpose? I don't get it. If he was the main guy they wanted dead, why not just off him when you have the chance? They still had people beyond the VP to protect and they still would have ushered Brody, the defense secretary and everyone into that room after the fact, but only this time the VP would be dead for sure.
The malfunction, wow, what an original thought. Beyond that, not once, but twice does Brody whip out the detonator and hold it up around his chest in a room that could not have been much larger than 20x20 filled with roughly 15-20 people who are all on high alert after just being shot at; and no one notices? I mean you have top brass in this room and the rest of the peeps are security or CIA and this guy whips out a detonator twice in a small room like that and no one even questions him? Even the secret service agent who taps Brody on the shoulder as he is about to do it the second time does not notice.
Abu Nazir comes up with this plan, years in the making. Tons of risks taken and money spent, then after the vest malfunctions, it takes 20 seconds for him to be enlightened by the thought that killing an idea is better than killing a man. And he goes from being pissed at Brody to backing his idea 100% and inexplicably cool with whacking Walker for no reason.
Good season, horribly disappointed by the finale. Now we get to watch a dozen or so new episodes of crazy Carrie and silly Saul fumble around and come to the conclusion that Brody is a terrorist again. Meanwhile we can hopefully catch more of Brody Allah Akbaring it up in his garage while climbing the political ladder and moonlighting as a terrorist.
Why did Walker miss the VP on purpose? I don't get it. If he was the main guy they wanted dead, why not just off him when you have the chance? They still had people beyond the VP to protect and they still would have ushered Brody, the defense secretary and everyone into that room after the fact, but only this time the VP would be dead for sure.
The malfunction, wow, what an original thought. Beyond that, not once, but twice does Brody whip out the detonator and hold it up around his chest in a room that could not have been much larger than 20x20 filled with roughly 15-20 people who are all on high alert after just being shot at; and no one notices? I mean you have top brass in this room and the rest of the peeps are security or CIA and this guy whips out a detonator twice in a small room like that and no one even questions him? Even the secret service agent who taps Brody on the shoulder as he is about to do it the second time does not notice.
Abu Nazir comes up with this plan, years in the making. Tons of risks taken and money spent, then after the vest malfunctions, it takes 20 seconds for him to be enlightened by the thought that killing an idea is better than killing a man. And he goes from being pissed at Brody to backing his idea 100% and inexplicably cool with whacking Walker for no reason.
Good season, horribly disappointed by the finale. Now we get to watch a dozen or so new episodes of crazy Carrie and silly Saul fumble around and come to the conclusion that Brody is a terrorist again. Meanwhile we can hopefully catch more of Brody Allah Akbaring it up in his garage while climbing the political ladder and moonlighting as a terrorist.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Sounds like this show is not for you, move along.[P1] The purpose of missing the VP was to bring everyone outside, inside and allow Brody to bypass security so he could blow up a lot more high value targets than 1 man. Had the VP been shot, you can't guarantee the same protocol would have been taken.[P2] We're led to believe he was holding it under his sleeve out of view, they only show a more visible view for TV purposes, get over it, it's a TV show.[P3] Walker served his purpose and is now a liability for Nazir, it made perfect sense.
shadyridr
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I said I was sort of hoping for it.Not that they should've or that it would've been smart. I certainly can't knock them for not doing it.nobody said this
It sure would've been ballsy though.
Not doing it also isn't consistent with the character I thought we were being presented with, in Brody.
Dude's a Marine. 8 year POW. Planned this forever. Living with his children for months while planning. Certainly, the "what will this do to my children" thoughts had gone through is mind many times.
I don't think there's any way in hell he changes his mind without new information (you know assuming his daughter loves him isn't new information).
I'm not complaining though. I know there was really no way they were going to kill Brody.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I understand people finding fault with Nazir's response to this ... but what else could he do? It's not like he could just reverse time and force him to detonate the bomb vest.'Barry said:I didn't really like the conclusion or lack of. maybe in order to have a season 2 they had to neuter the story.
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comfortably numb
Footballguy
Correct, and Walker is a wanted man on the run, Nazir kills Brody and his plans are forever foiled.He still has a chance to accomplish his mission now...after all, the bomb malfunctioned, that is all he knows.I understand people finding fault with Nazir's response to this ... but what else could he do? It's not like he could just reverse time and force him to detonate the bomb vest.'Barry said:I didn't really like the conclusion or lack of. maybe in order to have a season 2 they had to neuter the story.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Actually I do like the show. I'm with most in saying the finale was disappointed.1.) So they would not have taken the same protocol to save the sec of defense? Each high value target had their own ss agent and they all ushered them inside. Do you really think that they would go to a different location had the VP been shot? Would they let Brody and the Sec of Defense just fend for themselves? They all ushered them in there pretty quickly, they obviously had a plan. If the VP was shot, they still would have ushered them outside. Do you really think they would have all made them go through the metal detector as a sniper was rifling off rounds?2.) He was holding it clearly in the open, chest level high. Sorry, its an easy thing to correct as it clearly was not under his sleeve. So if we were supposed to be led to believe that he was holding it under his sleeve, they did a poor job. Its like me drawing a stick figure of a chick and telling you that it's supposed to be porn. 3.) Since when do terrorists off other terrorists after they have shown loyalty/dedication? Just not their m.o. So no, it didn't make perfect sense. If you wanted to say the writers had no more use for his character so they got rid of him, I can agree with that.
biggamer3
Footballguy
I enjoyed the finale immensely, and your points besides for the detonator issues are very good points, and probably the result of second season issues.The detonator gripe you have is a minute one to me, he had it out for a few seconds in his hands, not that obvious to anyone else and everyone was in a state of panic talking to each other and he was quiet the whole time.As for the VP being offed, if they off him then there is no real motivation for why Brody will want to continue working for Nazir in season two when the main "evil American" was killed. The only problem I really had was with the offing of Walker. It was probably the only thing that happened over the entire show which did not ring as true to their characters. The entire season, Brody had no direct line of communication with Nazir, Walker did have him directly most likely with the way he was on the phone with him when he met with Brody. And Walker was in the plot with Nazir before Brody was turned, he had done EVERYTHING they had asked of him, he had shown great loyalty to them and after Brody FAILS to detonate the task required of him, he has the trust of Nazir now and is told to kill Walker the most trusted employee they have?Did not buy that at all.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I enjoyed this show and thought the ending was good. I have no desire to pick holes in the plot lines, although of course there were a few weak points. The strange thing for me is that I am completely uninterested in season 2 of this show. I just have no interest in watching each week as non-CIA Carrie wrestles her demons, trying to remember things, obsessing with Brodie. I liked super-smart CIA spy Carrie much better. I similarly have no interest in watching Brodie wrestling his demons as he rises through the political ranks, dealing with his secret life as a terrorist and his family issues. Usually, when a really good show finishes with a strong finale like this one did, I can hardly wait for the next season to begin (Deadwood, Wire, Sopranos, Lost, etc.) That's not the case with Homeland for me.
Ned
Footballguy
You just described mt thinking to a T. Although I will still watch.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Yeah, I'll still watch it and see how they handle the first few episodes. Main differece being that I enjoyed the hell out of the show, as well as the finale, I didn't think the finale was as good as the rest of the season and couldn't help but harp on some plot holes. By contrast, the BSG finale had tons of plot holes but was so entertaining that I simply didn't care. Depending on where they go with some of what seem like plot holes in the next season, it's still imminently salvageable. And no doubt once they start advertising it, I'll be completely hooked.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
If there's that many problems with the show why keep watching? It's your free time but to watch a show some of you seemingly don't like, then to take more time to post complaints on a message board, I just don't get it.
I love the show. Can't wait for season 2. At least Emmy Rossum is only a few weeks away from showing her funbags on Shameless.
I love the show. Can't wait for season 2. At least Emmy Rossum is only a few weeks away from showing her funbags on Shameless.
biggamer3
Footballguy
Shameless episode 1 for second season is online already. safe to say, Rossum is still on a funbag unleashing tear.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
They consulted with the secret service and the CIA before agreeing on how to write that scene. So yeah. I think they would get the highest priority personnel inside asap. I think Elizabeth Gaines was one of the leaks. Nazir could not let her be in building with Brody. She had to be taken out first. Walker very deliberately waited for her to be alone in his sites.
This seems like a particularly silly complaint. He had the switch nowhere near chest high. I've watched it several times. He had it in his right hand by his hip. You can see his pants. Not his shirt. Because the camera focused on the switch for our benifit does not mean he wasn't at an angle blocking it from view of those in the room. It could have been done better, but this is nitpicking.
I'm surprised no one else jumped in and took issue with this. You probably haven't read enough espionage, fiction and non. Walker or Brody had to die. Nazir had to choose. He instructed Walker to grill Brody about what happened, at gun point, and even saying "F Nazir!" just to see if Brody was actually F-ing Nazir. If he was, he was dead, and Walker hopefully would be free to run around Washington shooting more bad guys. But, Brody was still onboard with a good argument about using his position to accomplish something greater. Nazir had to consider this carefully. Walker had become the target of the largest manhunt in the country. That carried too much risk. He knew to much, just like the other prisoner who got the razor blade. If Nazir wanted Brody to infiltrate the US government, he had no choice but to kill Walker. Period. As soon as he walked into that tunnel I knew only one man was leaving and which one it would be. I did hope Walker could escape somehow to shoot more politicians, but it was not to be.
Barry
Footballguy
it was the last episode we haven't had the chance to stop watching yet.Shameless. I will now check out. thanks for the tip. Someone really should start a thread giving a heads up in these matters.
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Native
Footballguy
The phone call between Brody and Dana (his daughter) was terrific - wonderful acting all around. The closeup of Brody's face, the shaking and teary eyes, the pleas of his daughter - all excellent.
I thought it was a very good episode and a fitting finale to a great first season.
I thought it was a very good episode and a fitting finale to a great first season.
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cstu
Footballguy
Nothing ever was explained about how Walker was turned and I'm still not satisfied that Nazir's kid and bunch of others was enough to turn Brody. Brody's quote about his military oath ("protect America from terrorists foreign and domestic) doesn't hold water since the VP was acting in the U.S.'s interests, even if it was cold-blooded and immoral.
I'm done, guys. Too bad I can't suspend disbelief enough because the show has incredible actors.
I'm done, guys. Too bad I can't suspend disbelief enough because the show has incredible actors.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
I actually like this theory. It is a real plausible explanation.
Seemed pretty obvious to me the way he was holding it clearly out in the open in a room that was roughly 15x20 filled with about 15-20 people. Its like he wasn't subtle about it at all. Maybe you don't have a heightened sense of awareness. I know they wanted to build up the suspense, but it was just blatantly obvious and a little overboard to me. And yes, I am nitpicking.
You're right, spy novels stopped being my thing in my early 20's. Though, you are confusing terrorism and conventional espionage. You probably haven't read enough about terrorists. I get the Walker grilling Brody part even the novice espionage reader didn't need that explained to him. Still don't think this fits with standard terrorist m.o. I take the least issue with this because I guess the writers were basically done with Walker's character. I do still agree with the posts above bringing up the fact that Nazir spends years coming up with this plan, then it is not fully carried out by Brody and it takes roughly 30 seconds for Brody to enlighten him to the idea of using a run for congress for him to buddy up and influence the VP. Really Nazir? Never thought of that one?Yes, all of this is nitpicking. I had higher standards for the finale and I guess I was let down. As someone mentioned above it doesn't leave me all that excited for season 2. I was already looking forward to next season before the final episode and this ep just sort of drowned that for me. I don't want to watch Carrie spend have the season battling crazy and see the slow build up of Brody being unmasked as a terrorist.
After being riveted by the everything up to this point, very disappointed with the finale... just the whole way that Brody meant to carry out the attack, then wanted to again, but didn't because his daughter believed in him was horribly hackneyed, exactly the opposite of what I've come to expect from the show. Very rarely did this show have "awww come on" moments, but they waited until the biggest moment of the season to unleash one...
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Again viewers are misunderstanding the show. Nazir did not spend years developing the plan that unfolded in the finale. It developed during Brody's return to society. Nazir spent years conditioning both Walker and Brody to destroy 'war criminals' at the highest levels of the country they both love -- America. Years of capture bonding,Stockholm Syndrome, whatever you want to call it, followed years of torture both physical and psychological. These two aren't just suffering from PTSD; they're messed up mentally way beyond Carrie. But the first terrorist plot involved Walker, the professor and his wife. The CIA foiled it. Walker and Brody had been returned to the US to work independent of each other. Brody was a sleeper cell integrating. Brody did not know Walker was still alive, so the plan involving him couldn't have been years in the making. It was not until he discovered that and almost quit the terror business, that he complied with his master and this new plan as the explosive, aspiring candidate.
The original plan for the show was for him to go bang, but they showrunners became so enamored with the chemistry between Lewis and Danes that they contrived things for a second season. But I liked the phone call. The fraction of a second timing device was a little lame, but that's suspense fiction for you. I thought Lewis did a great job with his voice and expressions portraying the emotional turmoil his daughter's call created. We were set up for this for a few weeks with Dana's suspicions that something wasn't right with her dad, and her dad being particularly drawn to her.
ETA: My defense of the show aside, I'm not sure if I am in for season 2. I'll give it a chance, I s'pose. This is the first series I've followed since the Sopranos. I don't watch much TV. Television is for sports.
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solid defense of the finale CC - I think it just the fingerprints of the writers on the story, rigging it instead of letting it play out (which you alluded to) which sticks in my craw...
if you haven't watched the wire yet, reserve about two weeks to speed through it. best thing I've ever watched on TV by a large, large margin. Modern American Urban Shakespeare.
if you haven't watched the wire yet, reserve about two weeks to speed through it. best thing I've ever watched on TV by a large, large margin. Modern American Urban Shakespeare.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Agreed. Danes and Lewis are terrific and were especially terrific in the finale. Disappointment aside, I am definitely going to at least give season 2 a shot.Again viewers are misunderstanding the show. Nazir did not spend years developing the plan that unfolded in the finale. It developed during Brody's return to society. Nazir spent years conditioning both Walker and Brody to destroy 'war criminals' at the highest levels of the country they both love -- America. Years of capture bonding,Stockholm Syndrome, whatever you want to call it, followed years of torture both physical and psychological. These two aren't just suffering from PTSD; they're messed up mentally way beyond Carrie. But the first terrorist plot involved Walker, the professor and his wife. The CIA foiled it. Walker and Brody had been returned to the US to work independent of each other. Brody was a sleeper cell integrating. Brody did not know Walker was still alive, so the plan involving him couldn't have been years in the making. It was not until he discovered that and almost quit the terror business, that he complied with his master and this new plan as the explosive, aspiring candidate.
The original plan for the show was for him to go bang, but they showrunners became so enamored with the chemistry between Lewis and Danes that they contrived things for a second season. But I liked the phone call. The fraction of a second timing device was a little lame, but that's suspense fiction for you. I thought Lewis did a great job with his voice and expressions portraying the emotional turmoil his daughter's call created. We were set up for this for a few weeks with Dana's suspicions that something wasn't right with her dad, and her dad being particularly drawn to her.
ETA: My defense of the show aside, I'm not sure if I am in for season 2. I'll give it a chance, I s'pose. This is the first series I've followed since the Sopranos. I don't watch much TV. Television is for sports.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Wait... so you are telling me that they went to the Secret Service and CIA and said "Hey, we are doing this scene where a terrorist is trying to kill the VP, SecDef and a bunch of other high ranking military and government officials... what exactly would be your security procedures?" and the response was sure- we would do this and that. Really?
Sarnoff
Footballguy
Marathoned this over Xmas with the parents, 4 hours a night for the last 3 nights. Just read the whole thread.
Actually, mostly we felt it moved slow, I guess as a matter of watching it as a marathon. Not much really was resolved episode-to-episode. Of course, we were keeping our minds open instead of jumping to conclusions that Brody was or wasn't cleared immediately after every line of dialog like some people in here
But still enjoyed it. Mom wants to see season 2, Dad can take it or leave it.
Oh, favorite character was Virgil's apparently mentally-challenged doofus of a younger brother. Didn't have much screen time but he nailed everything he did
Actually, mostly we felt it moved slow, I guess as a matter of watching it as a marathon. Not much really was resolved episode-to-episode. Of course, we were keeping our minds open instead of jumping to conclusions that Brody was or wasn't cleared immediately after every line of dialog like some people in here
But still enjoyed it. Mom wants to see season 2, Dad can take it or leave it.
Saw this and immediately remembered the same thing in the "most bachelor things you've ever done" thread
Saul kept a copy for himself. He said he was a packrat or whatever, keeping mementos. He used to supervise the African American Deputy Director guy who's now his boss, and the files Saul had were from that time. African American Deputy Director guy had a line about how he didn't bring it up the chain of command to Saul's attention because he knew Saul would have said "no".
I buy it. Ever since Nuremberg and reinforced in "A Few Good Men", we all know that Good Soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders. If he thought what the VP (then in his position as Sec. Def.) was illegal, he's right to feel how he did.One unresolved question: who told Brody's wife about his sleeping with Claire Danes? Was it stated who told? Are we to assume Brody told her? Or the mole? Didn't catch that bit of info.
Oh, favorite character was Virgil's apparently mentally-challenged doofus of a younger brother. Didn't have much screen time but he nailed everything he did
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
It's a little fuzzy, I think Brody came clean with her once he decided to "run for office".Marathoned this over Xmas with the parents, 4 hours a night for the last 3 nights. Just read the whole thread.
Actually, mostly we felt it moved slow, I guess as a matter of watching it as a marathon. Not much really was resolved episode-to-episode. Of course, we were keeping our minds open instead of jumping to conclusions that Brody was or wasn't cleared immediately after every line of dialog like some people in here
But still enjoyed it. Mom wants to see season 2, Dad can take it or leave it.
Saw this and immediately remembered the same thing in the "most bachelor things you've ever done" threadSaul kept a copy for himself. He said he was a packrat or whatever, keeping mementos. He used to supervise the African American Deputy Director guy who's now his boss, and the files Saul had were from that time. African American Deputy Director guy had a line about how he didn't bring it up the chain of command to Saul's attention because he knew Saul would have said "no".I buy it. Ever since Nuremberg and reinforced in "A Few Good Men", we all know that Good Soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders. If he thought what the VP (then in his position as Sec. Def.) was illegal, he's right to feel how he did.One unresolved question: who told Brody's wife about his sleeping with Claire Danes? Was it stated who told? Are we to assume Brody told her? Or the mole? Didn't catch that bit of info.
Oh, favorite character was Virgil's apparently mentally-challenged doofus of a younger brother. Didn't have much screen time but he nailed everything he did
biggamer3
Footballguy
I think Carrie came over one night to tell him something and she saw her come, probably put two and two togetherIt's a little fuzzy, I think Brody came clean with her once he decided to "run for office".Marathoned this over Xmas with the parents, 4 hours a night for the last 3 nights. Just read the whole thread.
Actually, mostly we felt it moved slow, I guess as a matter of watching it as a marathon. Not much really was resolved episode-to-episode. Of course, we were keeping our minds open instead of jumping to conclusions that Brody was or wasn't cleared immediately after every line of dialog like some people in here
But still enjoyed it. Mom wants to see season 2, Dad can take it or leave it.
Saw this and immediately remembered the same thing in the "most bachelor things you've ever done" threadSaul kept a copy for himself. He said he was a packrat or whatever, keeping mementos. He used to supervise the African American Deputy Director guy who's now his boss, and the files Saul had were from that time. African American Deputy Director guy had a line about how he didn't bring it up the chain of command to Saul's attention because he knew Saul would have said "no".I buy it. Ever since Nuremberg and reinforced in "A Few Good Men", we all know that Good Soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders. If he thought what the VP (then in his position as Sec. Def.) was illegal, he's right to feel how he did.One unresolved question: who told Brody's wife about his sleeping with Claire Danes? Was it stated who told? Are we to assume Brody told her? Or the mole? Didn't catch that bit of info.
Oh, favorite character was Virgil's apparently mentally-challenged doofus of a younger brother. Didn't have much screen time but he nailed everything he did
shadyridr
Footballguy
yeah she just figured it out. she mentioned to brody he was ####### her and he didnt deny or even respondI think Carrie came over one night to tell him something and she saw her come, probably put two and two togetherIt's a little fuzzy, I think Brody came clean with her once he decided to "run for office".Marathoned this over Xmas with the parents, 4 hours a night for the last 3 nights. Just read the whole thread.
Actually, mostly we felt it moved slow, I guess as a matter of watching it as a marathon. Not much really was resolved episode-to-episode. Of course, we were keeping our minds open instead of jumping to conclusions that Brody was or wasn't cleared immediately after every line of dialog like some people in here
But still enjoyed it. Mom wants to see season 2, Dad can take it or leave it.
Saw this and immediately remembered the same thing in the "most bachelor things you've ever done" threadSaul kept a copy for himself. He said he was a packrat or whatever, keeping mementos. He used to supervise the African American Deputy Director guy who's now his boss, and the files Saul had were from that time. African American Deputy Director guy had a line about how he didn't bring it up the chain of command to Saul's attention because he knew Saul would have said "no".I buy it. Ever since Nuremberg and reinforced in "A Few Good Men", we all know that Good Soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders. If he thought what the VP (then in his position as Sec. Def.) was illegal, he's right to feel how he did.One unresolved question: who told Brody's wife about his sleeping with Claire Danes? Was it stated who told? Are we to assume Brody told her? Or the mole? Didn't catch that bit of info.
Oh, favorite character was Virgil's apparently mentally-challenged doofus of a younger brother. Didn't have much screen time but he nailed everything he did
Apple Jack
Footballguy
The secret service can't discuss their protocols with their wives, let alone a television production. And I don't know about the CIA policies beyond knowing that just about everything they do is classified, but they have nothing to do with protecting politicians.
I thought the finale was okay. Not great, not terrible. There's plenty of picking apart that could be done, but it's not that kind of show. I will say that I see why he killed walker. Massive manhunt for him and he could flip on them. He had to go.
The show will be fine next year. Anybody saying they're not interested because of this or that..you have no idea what they're going to do next season. Carrie could be running CIA next year and nailing Brody in a motel 6 in Reston every other Tuesday. We have no idea.
I thought the finale was okay. Not great, not terrible. There's plenty of picking apart that could be done, but it's not that kind of show. I will say that I see why he killed walker. Massive manhunt for him and he could flip on them. He had to go.
The show will be fine next year. Anybody saying they're not interested because of this or that..you have no idea what they're going to do next season. Carrie could be running CIA next year and nailing Brody in a motel 6 in Reston every other Tuesday. We have no idea.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
There are plenty of reasons for whacking Walker. It was likely in the plans anyway, but in this case it was the test to see if Brody was really up to the task.
It also was a no-lose situation for Nasir. Walker was holding the gun on Brody so if walker got off a shot first you eliminate the Brody problem.
cstu
Footballguy
Does this mean you're still in?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I started with this show. Got through ep 1 and will try to knock them out this week. Watched Game of Thrones and just finished with The Walking Dead. Awesome trio of shows, I hold Homeland is just as good.
And, Claire Danes is looking mighty good. Will have to catch up on this thread later.
And, Claire Danes is looking mighty good. Will have to catch up on this thread later.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I think this show is written by union people. They are throwing Walker's name around as a terrorist and that is how Scott Walker is viewed by some. This is Liberal propaganda. Don't you agree?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
They're writers, creative types call it a "guild".
identikit
Footballguy
Lots of fans of Homeland:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/president-obama-homeland-showtime-285167
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/president-obama-homeland-showtime-285167
I may have to watch the old episodes. My neighbor is some sort of body double in the show for Danes and my wife mentioned that she was an extra for some other movie being shot here and a location person who works on both said they might shoot some scenes at her house. That would be pretty cool.
