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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (3 Viewers)

'timschochet said:
'tri-man 47 said:
'timschochet said:
I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine
I was going to ask about this when you mentioned it earlier in the thread -- Why is he your hero? Because he coached football at the same place for a really long time? I don't view Paterno as one who has had an enduring effect on his sport (ala John Wooden). What makes him a hero? It seems to me that your hero-bar is set rather low.
For me, he's been a hero because he did remind me of Wooden. Just always seemed like a very classy guy who ran a clean program for a long time. Seemed like a good guy. I admire class and decency. Until this incident, I had always related Paterno to those attributes.
Well, now you can add protector of forced child buggerers to class and decency in your description of your hero.
If Paterno has any class he'd stop down immediately. Not classy to be thinking about your legacey when children are getting raped on your watch. That bell has been rung. Would be dignified to step down immediately and apologize for not doing more then the bare minimum.
If he hasnt stepped down yet he wont unless public outcry starts affecting donations
They better hope that doesn't happen and should ramp up their fundraising efforts now in order to cover the millions upon millions that they'll be shelling out in civil lawsuits in the near future.
 
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jeez I cringe every time I read more...but what the hell...GA sees a helpless kid getting raped and walks away? What a gutless action or rather inaction....any interaction could have saved that kid and possibly many others - he didnt have to be Batman or anything - just a "what the hell is going on!" - sickening all around....
I know I'm in the minority here, but honestly, I think if I were in that situation (not hypothetically, without feeling or emotional vested interest, like, in a message board) and I saw someone who was a mentor, a person who I held to some level of esteem, a person with a good reputation, who I felt was to be trusted, doing something like that, something SO out of perceived character, I might have done exactly what McQueary did. It'd be like seeing a ghost. I think my first reaction would be to step away as I'd need time to process what I saw. Then I'd seek out an authority figure. Like McQueary did. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "I'd have stepped in and saved that boy!" Much the same way people say that if they saw an old lady getting robbed at knife-point they'd step in...but in reality, I think there's a lot more to this decision that you can't really quantify in hypotheticals.
I could see someone not running into the showers and stopping it

. But to not even pick up a phone and call the police is indefensible.
I can't.JFC, a 10 year old boy?! I have no kids, and never will, but not even jail or the threat of losing my job and being poor (as I have been before) isn't enough to make me stop destroying some maggot from doing this. Period. I am definitely far from a hero or a brave man, but ####### me if I didn't destroy that man if I saw this.

 
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Just finished arguing with 2 guys at the office - both defending JoePa saying he did what he was supposed to do undert he law....said he wasnt an eye witness so reported it as he should have end of story....bad guys are in the AD. The pro JoePa camps are going to beat this drum.
I guess that's fine, but at the end of the day JoePa either:1. Kept a GA on his staff (and promoted him ) thinking that the allegations against Sandusky were false and this guy had lied about a rape of a child.2. Allowed Sandusky to keep an office in the building, to hold overnight football camps with kids and to bring children onto the sidelines for practice, believing the allegations the GA made in 2002.or 3. He really had no idea what was going on because he's been senile for the past 15 years and is just a figurehead with no real decision making ability/authority at all.I don't think there's any other alternatives. He either covered up for a pedophile, promoted a guy who falsely accused a friend of being a pedophile or he's completely out of touch.
Pretty sure most of us knows what really went down here. Told him to stop, he didn't then it got out of control to the point where they decided to lie and cover it up to save their own tail. This is pretty much the same thing that happened with the Catholic church in fact scary similar.I think ego and power with JoePa, etc they really thought by telling him to stop having sex with children would be good enough. The assistant who caught him I am also sure he doesn't take a crap unless he asks JoePa first. It's a culture, like Catholic church, where the law begins and ends within the university and never report anything to the cops unless JoePa says to do so.
 
'proninja said:
Did you know that Jerry Sandusky wrote a book?
In other "you can't make this stuff up" news, Penn State recently opened an on-campus child care facility.The name? The Gary Schultz Child Care Center

:mellow:
I might have just sent the PSU physical plant website an email question: Will this new facility have showers large enough to accommodate a grown man and a young boy? Thank you, your assistance is greatly appreciated.
 
not sure how any penn st alumni can goto their home games and cheer on the school with joe pa still there. any alumni care to chime in?
Catholics still cheer on the pope. :shrug:
While I appreciate the comparisons to the Ctholic Church, especially in light of the emails and memos from the current pontiff, and find them quite apt, the football team is 110% in the free and clear and will end up being unfortunate victims (though not anywhere close, by a few orders of magnitude of the real victims), of this issue.
 
jeez I cringe every time I read more...but what the hell...GA sees a helpless kid getting raped and walks away? What a gutless action or rather inaction....any interaction could have saved that kid and possibly many others - he didnt have to be Batman or anything - just a "what the hell is going on!" - sickening all around....
I know I'm in the minority here, but honestly, I think if I were in that situation (not hypothetically, without feeling or emotional vested interest, like, in a message board) and I saw someone who was a mentor, a person who I held to some level of esteem, a person with a good reputation, who I felt was to be trusted, doing something like that, something SO out of perceived character, I might have done exactly what McQueary did. It'd be like seeing a ghost. I think my first reaction would be to step away as I'd need time to process what I saw. Then I'd seek out an authority figure. Like McQueary did. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "I'd have stepped in and saved that boy!" Much the same way people say that if they saw an old lady getting robbed at knife-point they'd step in...but in reality, I think there's a lot more to this decision that you can't really quantify in hypotheticals.
I could see someone not running into the showers and stopping it

. But to not even pick up a phone and call the police is indefensible.
I can't.JFC, a 10 year old boy?! I have no kids, and never will, but not even jail or the threat of losing my job and being poor (as I have been before) isn't enough to make me stop destroying some maggot from doing this. Period. I am definitely far from a hero or a brave man, but ####### me if I didn't destroy that man if I saw this.
:goodposting: There are moments in life that define who/what you are. This would definitely be one of them.

 
Ok forgive me. I have been following for the most part and reading here and there but why is this coming out now? I have no issues with these creeps getting destroyed, just curious to the timing.

Did someone come forward again? recently?
For reference, here is the timeline. What is missing here is when did the grand jury convene, what happened between 2008 and now... was that a 3-year investigation, or what?
Not sure if what they say in that timeline how I feel about Paterno. It says the next day he tells HIS higher up that an asisstant saw this behavior. They then talk to the assisstant directly.
Good commentary here:
Like Victim 2. A Penn State graduate assistant coach shows up at the football locker room unexpectedly, and hears slapping noises from the shower. Here’s what the report said:

“As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.’’

The assistant fled in fear and confusion. Much the same way a janitor fled after allegedly witnessing Sandusky engaged in a sexual act in the showers with a “young boy” — Victim 8, later described in the report as being “between the ages of 11 and 13.”

They fled? They didn’t help the boys? They didn’t call the police?

To read this report is to be sickened, but also to wonder why no one did anything to help.

And while the graduate assistant and janitor don’t get a pass, they were reacting to an emotional and horrifying scene.

Joe Paterno was not. Penn State athletic director Tim Curley was not. Penn State’s senior VP of finances and business Gary Schultz was not. Penn State president Graham Spanier was not.

They were acting, if the grand jury is right, in the most cool, calculating, self-preserving way. Curley and Schultz were charged with perjury and failure to report for allegedly failing to alert police when they learned of the alleged facts pertaining to Victim 2 in a meeting with the graduate assistant. And late Sunday night, the two stepped down from their positions at Penn State.

According to the report, no one even asked the name of some of these boys.

If the report is right, Paterno, leader of men for the past half century, simply called his athletic director and passed on the information of the rape his graduate assistant described to him; like telling your boss on a co-worker who is stealing staples from the supply closet.

No, Paterno, and the other school officials, did nothing to help the boys, or to help any other boys in the future.

They actually told Sandusky that he couldn’t keep bringing boys from his charity onto the Penn State campus, into the football facilities, according to the grand jury findings.

Not that they told him to stop doing to those boys what is alleged.

Just stop doing it here.

If that claim is true, Paterno needs to resign right now, though he is not charged with any crime. And yes, he reported it to his boss. But it’s fair to expect more from him.

What is alleged is a crime that thrives in the dark, when people are looking the other way. It is a crime with the most vulnerable and defenseless victims. So any time someone knows anything, or even suspects, it demands someone with the courage to speak up.

Or boys keep getting hurt. With no one calling the police, Penn State football marched on. And so did Sandusky for more than nine years, dealing with young, needy boys for most of them.

They just let him.

Look, if what is alleged is true, it’s important that we all see what’s happening here. A guy starts a charity to help disadvantaged boys. The guy is a football coach at a program that has been hailed as one of the few doing good things for young men, helping them to grow in the right way. They play in a town people call Happy Valley.

There is no such thing as Happy Valley.

But to protect it, no one did anything. To protect a myth. To protect a football program. We’ve got to stop treating football as a religion.

Seven counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse. That’s what Sandusky was charged with Saturday morning when he was arrested. Also, eight counts of corruption of minors, eight counts of endangering the welfare of a child, seven counts of indecent assault and 10 other counts.

This should be personal to all of us, whether we have children or not.

For the past several weeks, I have taken my 12-year-old son out to play basketball nearly every day. Seventh-grade hoops tryouts are Monday, and this is a crash course for a super tall, super athletic kid who hasn’t played much basketball before, but suddenly wants to now.

You know what he said to me Saturday as we walked off the court? “If I don’t make the team, can we keep doing this?’’

He is the same age as some of these boys in the Sandusky scandal. The grand jury report talks about boys hiding in the closet.

It is simple trust. That might be the most important thing our kids can feel.

And while I’m railing on Sandusky and Paterno and officials here, our thoughts need to be on those boys right now. They looked up to Sandusky. They trusted him. They are defenseless. They needed help, and Sandusky was the one to provide it.

The charity he founded was called The Second Mile. And, according to the grand jury, it was “initially devoted to helping troubled young boys.

“It was within The Second Mile program that Sandusky found his alleged victims. . . . It grew into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.’’

Its mission? “Help children who need additional support and would benefit from positive human interaction.’’

Twelve-year-old boys today are a lot stronger and smarter than my generation was at 12. They have seen more. But they are still children. They are still fighting so many of the same old emotional uncertainties, as their minds and bodies start working their way into adulthood. They are not equipped to handle it all.

We send them off to see coaches and teachers for guitar lessons, tennis lessons, theater club.

Paterno has spent 50 years pushing an image of righteousness. If he is really about more than just football, if all these years really meant something, then Paterno would have done more than just pass the reports on to his boss and wash his hands.

It was not just football players counting on him. Victims 1 through 8 were, too.
The image alone is horrid
 
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Just finished arguing with 2 guys at the office - both defending JoePa saying he did what he was supposed to do undert he law....said he wasnt an eye witness so reported it as he should have end of story....bad guys are in the AD. The pro JoePa camps are going to beat this drum.
I guess that's fine, but at the end of the day JoePa either:1. Kept a GA on his staff (and promoted him ) thinking that the allegations against Sandusky were false and this guy had lied about a rape of a child.2. Allowed Sandusky to keep an office in the building, to hold overnight football camps with kids and to bring children onto the sidelines for practice, believing the allegations the GA made in 2002.or 3. He really had no idea what was going on because he's been senile for the past 15 years and is just a figurehead with no real decision making ability/authority at all.I don't think there's any other alternatives. He either covered up for a pedophile, promoted a guy who falsely accused a friend of being a pedophile or he's completely out of touch.
Pretty sure most of us knows what really went down here. Told him to stop, he didn't then it got out of control to the point where they decided to lie and cover it up to save their own tail. This is pretty much the same thing that happened with the Catholic church in fact scary similar.I think ego and power with JoePa, etc they really thought by telling him to stop having sex with children would be good enough. The assistant who caught him I am also sure he doesn't take a crap unless he asks JoePa first. It's a culture, like Catholic church, where the law begins and ends within the university and never report anything to the cops unless JoePa says to do so.
HTF do you tell someone to stop having sex with children? How? I've been thinking, and even my most bestest of friends, even them, I can't imagine not giving them up for this. This isn't banging your buddies wife or slipping it to a (legal) teen student. This is ####### child rape. There's no intervention, no "this is your only warning". You're ####### gone and I want nothing to do with you ever again is the least of the only appropriate responses.
 
jeez I cringe every time I read more...but what the hell...GA sees a helpless kid getting raped and walks away? What a gutless action or rather inaction....any interaction could have saved that kid and possibly many others - he didnt have to be Batman or anything - just a "what the hell is going on!" - sickening all around....
I know I'm in the minority here, but honestly, I think if I were in that situation (not hypothetically, without feeling or emotional vested interest, like, in a message board) and I saw someone who was a mentor, a person who I held to some level of esteem, a person with a good reputation, who I felt was to be trusted, doing something like that, something SO out of perceived character, I might have done exactly what McQueary did. It'd be like seeing a ghost. I think my first reaction would be to step away as I'd need time to process what I saw. Then I'd seek out an authority figure. Like McQueary did. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "I'd have stepped in and saved that boy!" Much the same way people say that if they saw an old lady getting robbed at knife-point they'd step in...but in reality, I think there's a lot more to this decision that you can't really quantify in hypotheticals.
I could see someone not running into the showers and stopping it

. But to not even pick up a phone and call the police is indefensible.
I can't.JFC, a 10 year old boy?! I have no kids, and never will, but not even jail or the threat of losing my job and being poor (as I have been before) isn't enough to make me stop destroying some maggot from doing this. Period. I am definitely far from a hero or a brave man, but ####### me if I didn't destroy that man if I saw this.
:goodposting: I feel the same way. If a jury wants to convict me of killing a man for raping a young child go right ahead.
 
not sure how any penn st alumni can goto their home games and cheer on the school with joe pa still there. any alumni care to chime in?
Catholics still cheer on the pope. :shrug:
While I appreciate the comparisons to the Ctholic Church, especially in light of the emails and memos from the current pontiff, and find them quite apt, the football team is 110% in the free and clear and will end up being unfortunate victims (though not anywhere close, by a few orders of magnitude of the real victims), of this issue.
I was drawing out the analogy to include JoPa in the cheering. If he gets the can, I have no problem with people cheering on PSU football. But as long as he is coach, I think the cheering should be silented. He's got a lot to answer for, IMO.
 
'timschochet said:
...I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine so perhaps that colors my thinking....
Even if we cut Paterno every break here he most certainly failed in how he prepared the one student that spent almost ten years in how to handle such an incident.
:confused:
Assume for the sake of argument
[*]Paterno knew nothing of the 1998 incident until this weekend.

[*]Paterno knew nothing of any other of the incidents except the 2002 one until this weekend.

[*]Paterno was told in 2002 of that incident and knew that it was enough to disturb McQueary, but never was given enough information to believe that more than questionable "horsing around" was going on.

[*]Paterno had no reason to believe that McQueary lied to him or that higher ups did not fully investigate the incident.

Now I'm not asking that you to believe these, just assume they are true for a moment for this post.

What does that say about Paterno's influence on the kind of man that McQueary turned out to be? Isn't that what college coaches always claim, they are "molding men"? If all of the above is true then Paterno did a pretty poor job of molding McQueary over the decade they were together before the incident.

That is what I was trying to say. That even if we take and assume the best for Paterno with every question no matter how unlikely or unreasonable that might me, it still turns out bad for Paterno.

 
jeez I cringe every time I read more...but what the hell...GA sees a helpless kid getting raped and walks away? What a gutless action or rather inaction....any interaction could have saved that kid and possibly many others - he didnt have to be Batman or anything - just a "what the hell is going on!" - sickening all around....
I know I'm in the minority here, but honestly, I think if I were in that situation (not hypothetically, without feeling or emotional vested interest, like, in a message board) and I saw someone who was a mentor, a person who I held to some level of esteem, a person with a good reputation, who I felt was to be trusted, doing something like that, something SO out of perceived character, I might have done exactly what McQueary did. It'd be like seeing a ghost. I think my first reaction would be to step away as I'd need time to process what I saw. Then I'd seek out an authority figure. Like McQueary did. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "I'd have stepped in and saved that boy!" Much the same way people say that if they saw an old lady getting robbed at knife-point they'd step in...but in reality, I think there's a lot more to this decision that you can't really quantify in hypotheticals.
I could see someone not running into the showers and stopping it

. But to not even pick up a phone and call the police is indefensible.
I can't.JFC, a 10 year old boy?! I have no kids, and never will, but not even jail or the threat of losing my job and being poor (as I have been before) isn't enough to make me stop destroying some maggot from doing this. Period. I am definitely far from a hero or a brave man, but ####### me if I didn't destroy that man if I saw this.
:goodposting: I feel the same way. If a jury wants to convict me of killing a man for raping a young child go right ahead.
I wouldn't go so far as killing. Not even close. Not for my sake, but for the sake of his anal retentiveness in prison.
 
'timschochet said:
'tri-man 47 said:
'timschochet said:
I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine
I was going to ask about this when you mentioned it earlier in the thread -- Why is he your hero? Because he coached football at the same place for a really long time? I don't view Paterno as one who has had an enduring effect on his sport (ala John Wooden). What makes him a hero? It seems to me that your hero-bar is set rather low.
For me, he's been a hero because he did remind me of Wooden. Just always seemed like a very classy guy who ran a clean program for a long time. Seemed like a good guy. I admire class and decency. Until this incident, I had always related Paterno to those attributes.
Well, now you can add protector of forced child buggerers to class and decency in your description of your hero.
Apparently more than one person has failed to read my comments in their entirety.
 
'timschochet said:
...I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine so perhaps that colors my thinking....
Even if we cut Paterno every break here he most certainly failed in how he prepared the one student that spent almost ten years in how to handle such an incident.
:confused:
Assume for the sake of argument
[*]Paterno knew nothing of the 1998 incident until this weekend.

[*]Paterno knew nothing of any other of the incidents except the 2002 one until this weekend.

[*]Paterno was told in 2002 of that incident and knew that it was enough to disturb McQueary, but never was given enough information to believe that more than questionable "horsing around" was going on.

[*]Paterno had no reason to believe that McQueary lied to him or that higher ups did not fully investigate the incident.

Now I'm not asking that you to believe these, just assume they are true for a moment for this post.

What does that say about Paterno's influence on the kind of man that McQueary turned out to be? Isn't that what college coaches always claim, they are "molding men"? If all of the above is true then Paterno did a pretty poor job of molding McQueary over the decade they were together before the incident.

That is what I was trying to say. That even if we take and assume the best for Paterno with every question no matter how unlikely or unreasonable that might me, it still turns out bad for Paterno.
:confused: Being a part of a child rape ring > stopped molding athletes/people at PSU

I'd take the "I am completely clueless" bit if I hired and covered up a friend who was a serial child rapist then helped him to continue to live that lifestyle. By the way, I'd turn in my best friend if he did this as would most normal human beings.

 
jeez I cringe every time I read more...but what the hell...GA sees a helpless kid getting raped and walks away? What a gutless action or rather inaction....any interaction could have saved that kid and possibly many others - he didnt have to be Batman or anything - just a "what the hell is going on!" - sickening all around....
I know I'm in the minority here, but honestly, I think if I were in that situation (not hypothetically, without feeling or emotional vested interest, like, in a message board) and I saw someone who was a mentor, a person who I held to some level of esteem, a person with a good reputation, who I felt was to be trusted, doing something like that, something SO out of perceived character, I might have done exactly what McQueary did. It'd be like seeing a ghost. I think my first reaction would be to step away as I'd need time to process what I saw. Then I'd seek out an authority figure. Like McQueary did. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "I'd have stepped in and saved that boy!" Much the same way people say that if they saw an old lady getting robbed at knife-point they'd step in...but in reality, I think there's a lot more to this decision that you can't really quantify in hypotheticals.
I could see someone not running into the showers and stopping it

. But to not even pick up a phone and call the police is indefensible.
I can't.JFC, a 10 year old boy?! I have no kids, and never will, but not even jail or the threat of losing my job and being poor (as I have been before) isn't enough to make me stop destroying some maggot from doing this. Period. I am definitely far from a hero or a brave man, but ####### me if I didn't destroy that man if I saw this.
:goodposting: I feel the same way. If a jury wants to convict me of killing a man for raping a young child go right ahead.
I wouldn't go so far as killing. Not even close. Not for my sake, but for the sake of his anal retentiveness in prison.
I'm not 100% sure I would kill either but pretty much all bets are off if I walked into a situation like this. If I was on a jury I wouldn't convict someone taking out justice on scum like that.
 
The more I read about this case the more Joel's and anyone who knows anything about this case needs to go.

 
begs the question, why didn't the assistant go kick the living #### out of Sandusky in 2002 at the moment of being caught? Pretty much lose your man card for not acting in that situation. Guaranteed if i walk in on some dude buggering a boy he's going to get beat unconscious.

 
begs the question, why didn't the assistant go kick the living #### out of Sandusky in 2002 at the moment of being caught? Pretty much lose your man card for not acting in that situation. Guaranteed if i walk in on some dude buggering a boy he's going to get beat unconscious.
Or at the very least, how about shouting out at the top of your lungs 'WHAT THE #### ARE YOU DOING!!!!!'....I cannot believe this monster did this in a public shower. He must have done this thousands of times without getting caught and just figured he was above the law completely. I hope somebody kills him in prison. After raping him with a broom.
 
begs the question, why didn't the assistant go kick the living #### out of Sandusky in 2002 at the moment of being caught? Pretty much lose your man card for not acting in that situation. Guaranteed if i walk in on some dude buggering a boy he's going to get beat unconscious.
Or at the very least, how about shouting out at the top of your lungs 'WHAT THE #### ARE YOU DOING!!!!!'....I cannot believe this monster did this in a public shower. He must have done this thousands of times without getting caught and just figured he was above the law completely. I hope somebody kills him in prison. After raping him with a broom.
Worked for Dahmer, but I recommend the slow burn approach and give him a few weeks in and out of the prison infirmary before the final broom handle thrust.
 
The image alone is horrid
I'm sorry, but the actions of the grad student and janitor are inexcuseable.
:confused: Where did I say it wasn't?They should all be throw in jail together with different degrees of judgement handed out amongst them all. Want to protect your image and allow a monster to feed off children then when you get caught you're going to jail as well.This is turning out to be more of a child sex ring feel to it with lots of people involved to keep it going.
 
begs the question, why didn't the assistant go kick the living #### out of Sandusky in 2002 at the moment of being caught? Pretty much lose your man card for not acting in that situation. Guaranteed if i walk in on some dude buggering a boy he's going to get beat unconscious.
Or at the very least, how about shouting out at the top of your lungs 'WHAT THE #### ARE YOU DOING!!!!!'....I cannot believe this monster did this in a public shower. He must have done this thousands of times without getting caught and just figured he was above the law completely. I hope somebody kills him in prison. After raping him with a broom.
Exactly. To do it with impunity like this shows how comfortable he was. At one point he was instructed to "not shower with boys." Really? These kids were failed by more people than just those named over the weekend as this scandal broke. Even given opportunities, no one stood up for these kids. ####### sickening.
 
not sure how any penn st alumni can goto their home games and cheer on the school with joe pa still there. any alumni care to chime in?
I am going to the game... It is Senior day- the game when all seniors are playing for the last time at Beaver Stadium. Should be a highlight of their college carrers - but some very bad people are stealing this moment from these kids. I will be there to cheer these seniors, and I hope my fellow alum will do the same. F Joe. F the AD. F McQueary. Die Sandusky. This is about the players, and they need us now more than ever.
 
not sure how any penn st alumni can goto their home games and cheer on the school with joe pa still there. any alumni care to chime in?
I am going to the game... It is Senior day- the game when all seniors are playing for the last time at Beaver Stadium. Should be a highlight of their college carrers - but some very bad people are stealing this moment from these kids. I will be there to cheer these seniors, and I hope my fellow alum will do the same. F Joe. F the AD. F McQueary. Die Sandusky. This is about the players, and they need us now more than ever.
Good for you.
 
'timschochet said:
...I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine so perhaps that colors my thinking....
Even if we cut Paterno every break here he most certainly failed in how he prepared the one student that spent almost ten years in how to handle such an incident.
:confused:
Assume for the sake of argument
[*]Paterno knew nothing of the 1998 incident until this weekend.

[*]Paterno knew nothing of any other of the incidents except the 2002 one until this weekend.

[*]Paterno was told in 2002 of that incident and knew that it was enough to disturb McQueary, but never was given enough information to believe that more than questionable "horsing around" was going on.

[*]Paterno had no reason to believe that McQueary lied to him or that higher ups did not fully investigate the incident.

Now I'm not asking that you to believe these, just assume they are true for a moment for this post.

What does that say about Paterno's influence on the kind of man that McQueary turned out to be? Isn't that what college coaches always claim, they are "molding men"? If all of the above is true then Paterno did a pretty poor job of molding McQueary over the decade they were together before the incident.

That is what I was trying to say. That even if we take and assume the best for Paterno with every question no matter how unlikely or unreasonable that might be, it still turns out bad for Paterno.
:confused: Being a part of a child rape ring > stopped molding athletes/people at PSU

I'd take the "I am completely clueless" bit if I hired and covered up a friend who was a serial child rapist then helped him to continue to live that lifestyle. By the way, I'd turn in my best friend if he did this as would most normal human beings.
Don't know what is confusing. Even giving Paterno every benefit of the doubt, he still fails.
 
Anyone discussed why the GA is an asst coach on the team now? He saw the incident, wouldn't he either want to leave the program or blow the whistle? He either used the info to advance himself or he took the position as a payoff which would implicate Paterno even worse and this GA whatever his name is.

 
Anyone discussed why the GA is an asst coach on the team now?
anyone? I think nearly every person in this thread has discussed it to this point.
I haven't checked back Aaron since Premier brought it up yesterday. I think it seems to get glossed over in the media because it is more interesting to trash Paterno but I really would like to know what he was thinking and also if he is going to have to take the stand. His career should be over.
 
Anyone discussed why the GA is an asst coach on the team now? He saw the incident, wouldn't he either want to leave the program or blow the whistle? He either used the info to advance himself or he took the position as a payoff which would implicate Paterno even worse and this GA whatever his name is.
Pretty sure any adult who saw in person what he now describes under oath as acts creating the a#s clapping sound of a very large grown man forcibly anally sodomizing a young child belongs in prison if he did not report it to the police in a manner which guaranteed it could never happen again. I hope everyone who lives in a community with the GA, Paterno, and any of these other childrapist protecting PSU scum, bans together and pitchfork and torches them out of town. Hopefully, they all eat guns in shame, but I doubt vermin like this have any shame or honor. This is some vile, despicable, sickening, vomitous, disgusting crap and anyone defending it in any way, shape or form, or the people who did it, needs to take a long look in the mirror.
 
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Youd think this would be a good example of lack of institutuional control and warrant the NCAA death sentence.

 
Just finished arguing with 2 guys at the office - both defending JoePa saying he did what he was supposed to do undert he law....said he wasnt an eye witness so reported it as he should have end of story....bad guys are in the AD. The pro JoePa camps are going to beat this drum.
I guess that's fine, but at the end of the day JoePa either:1. Kept a GA on his staff (and promoted him ) thinking that the allegations against Sandusky were false and this guy had lied about a rape of a child.2. Allowed Sandusky to keep an office in the building, to hold overnight football camps with kids and to bring children onto the sidelines for practice, believing the allegations the GA made in 2002.or 3. He really had no idea what was going on because he's been senile for the past 15 years and is just a figurehead with no real decision making ability/authority at all.I don't think there's any other alternatives. He either covered up for a pedophile, promoted a guy who falsely accused a friend of being a pedophile or he's completely out of touch.
Pretty sure most of us knows what really went down here. Told him to stop, he didn't then it got out of control to the point where they decided to lie and cover it up to save their own tail. This is pretty much the same thing that happened with the Catholic church in fact scary similar.I think ego and power with JoePa, etc they really thought by telling him to stop having sex with children would be good enough. The assistant who caught him I am also sure he doesn't take a crap unless he asks JoePa first. It's a culture, like Catholic church, where the law begins and ends within the university and never report anything to the cops unless JoePa says to do so.
I absolutely agree, just letting the deniers choose which unsavory possibility applies. None of them are very flattering.
 
not sure how any penn st alumni can goto their home games and cheer on the school with joe pa still there. any alumni care to chime in?
I am going to the game... It is Senior day- the game when all seniors are playing for the last time at Beaver Stadium. Should be a highlight of their college carrers - but some very bad people are stealing this moment from these kids. I will be there to cheer these seniors, and I hope my fellow alum will do the same. F Joe. F the AD. F McQueary. Die Sandusky. This is about the players, and they need us now more than ever.
Unfortunately, unless JP isn't there, I assume there will be boos aplenty. Assigne these seniors to the victim category, though obviously nowhere near the victim status of the underage rapees.
 
tOSU fan here, so you can ignore me since ConstruxBoy told you to do so.I have nothing against JoePa and respect what he has done during his tenure. I don't know the law to the letter but the feeling I get is that Paterno should have done more with the information he was given. Surely I/we don't know the entire story either, but that's just what I'm thinking at this moment. Sucks that something so disgusting and tragic like this happens in life. People like Sandusky are vile human beings. They better throw the book at Sandusky and whoever covered this up (not saying JoePa is involved in that or not).
Sorry, should have just singled out the person on here I meant.
 
JoePa deserves nothing less than to be fired in disgrace and hopefully have criminal.charges brought against everyone that knew. This its beyond disgraceful and no one that concealed anything deserves an ounce of mercy. Period.

 
Sickening on so many levels. I agree with many here that Penn State is going to need to clean house on a lot of people that were involved in this coverup (JoePa included). Legally his response might keep him from getting in trouble with the law, but no way is it the ethical thing to do. He had an opportunity to save a lot of other kids from this monster and chose a cowardly path. Shame on everyone involved in this coverup.

 
I've flipped on Joe Pa - He needs to go too. He just passed it off.
This line of thinking is gaining steam as people take a deep breath, step back, and actually think rationaly about the situation. I know that's what happened with me and my thoughts about Paterno. I am starting to think the GA should be locked up also. Especially if he played any of this into moving up the ladder.
:goodposting: I think Paterno initially gets the benefit of doubt from a lot of people cause of his track record; and it has been one of honor and success. Once the story sinks in, it's pretty clear (at least to me) that there is nothing a person could ever do before or after that would make passing the buck on what Sandusky did acceptable.
 
I don't think you can prosecute Joe Pa and the GA for crimes they didn't commit. Unless there has been much more to the story than we have heard I think it is pretty clear that they met their legal obligations.Whether or not they met any ethical obligations is a whole 'nother story and they will probably lose their jobs for that. As they should.That they lose their jobs by trying to protect their jobs is some sort of weird irony. And by trying to protect the University they have effectively brought it to its knees.This whole story is just soul-crushing.
Do you think if I know the identity of bank robbers and dont tell, and years later it comes out I knew/know, that I can or should be prosecuted?
 
I don't think you can prosecute Joe Pa and the GA for crimes they didn't commit. Unless there has been much more to the story than we have heard I think it is pretty clear that they met their legal obligations.Whether or not they met any ethical obligations is a whole 'nother story and they will probably lose their jobs for that. As they should.That they lose their jobs by trying to protect their jobs is some sort of weird irony. And by trying to protect the University they have effectively brought it to its knees.This whole story is just soul-crushing.
Do you think if I know the identity of bank robbers and dont tell, and years later it comes out I knew/know, that I can or should be prosecuted?
Maybe if you are a state mandated reporter of bank robberies...
 
One thing I do have to get off my chest:

I'm a PSU alum and for at least the last 10-12 years, all I've heard from the MSM and people I meet when they find out I went to Penn State: "What is the deal with Paterno? How long will he stay? Is he even coaching anymore? You know the assistants are doing all the work?" These conversations invariably turn into Weekend at Bernie's jokes.

So now that this happens, most of the MSM and half the people in this thread are suggesting that he should be Sherlock Holmes and has orchestrated a 12 year cone of silence at the highest reaches of a major University. Really?? WTF! Pick a lane!

I'm not saying what he did is right or that he shouldn't have followed up or that he doesn't deserve to be fired or have his reputation tarnished. But please, enough with the same people who 5 years ago were telling me that he couldn't tie his own shoes anymore now telling me he is some criminal mastermind.

 
One thing I do have to get off my chest:I'm a PSU alum and for at least the last 10-12 years, all I've heard from the MSM and people I meet when they find out I went to Penn State: "What is the deal with Paterno? How long will he stay? Is he even coaching anymore? You know the assistants are doing all the work?" These conversations invariably turn into Weekend at Bernie's jokes. So now that this happens, most of the MSM and half the people in this thread are suggesting that he should be Sherlock Holmes and has orchestrated a 12 year cone of silence at the highest reaches of a major University. Really?? WTF! Pick a lane! I'm not saying what he did is right or that he shouldn't have followed up or that he doesn't deserve to be fired or have his reputation tarnished. But please, enough with the same people who 5 years ago were telling me that he couldn't tie his own shoes anymore now telling me he is some criminal mastermind.
Utter fail.
 
I don't think you can prosecute Joe Pa and the GA for crimes they didn't commit. Unless there has been much more to the story than we have heard I think it is pretty clear that they met their legal obligations.

Whether or not they met any ethical obligations is a whole 'nother story and they will probably lose their jobs for that. As they should.

That they lose their jobs by trying to protect their jobs is some sort of weird irony. And by trying to protect the University they have effectively brought it to its knees.

This whole story is just soul-crushing.
Do you think if I know the identity of bank robbers and dont tell, and years later it comes out I knew/know, that I can or should be prosecuted?
Maybe if you are a state mandated reporter of bank robberies...
Hmmmmm.......
 

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